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Atheism... is it based on human traits of brainwashing?
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Hi Lynne,

My atheism is based on my conviction that supernatural beings don't exist. If ever I am presented with convincing evidence for the existence of a supernatural, creator god, then I will cease to be an atheist.

The article Puke posted was interesting, but not entirely unexpected. The USA "Christianity" is laughable. The disgusting wealth and greediness of a large part of the population and the poverty and want of the marginalised section makes a mockery of any claim to Christian principles.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
But isn't that based on how you feel?
How to rationalise this when it comes to what 'faith' means?
Why do you no longer have the ability to believe as you once did?

Because my ability to reason overcame my belief.
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It leads to another question.
Did you choose to believe and choose not to believe?
(Not related to anything posted in the past)

I don't know why you bring this up yet again, Lynne. We both know that it is impossible to believe something that your reason tells you isn't true.
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Do these rich Christians not give to charities and do charitable works? As far as I am aware, they give to charities and help those in their community.

Some probably do, a little. But Jesus taught that the rich should sell what they have to give to the poor.
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I am not saying that makes them a Christian.

It doesn't if they are still disgustingly rich ... but they think they are Christians.
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Not sure if we can put all the USA believers in the same box?
What do you think? Being a little harsh by blanketing them all together????

Yes, common sense tells me that some Americans lead Christian lives, but I was referring to the very rich. You can't be very rich and a Christian at the same time.
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonard James wrote:
You can't be very rich and a Christian at the same time.


Rich - as in material wealth - I don't think Sir Cliff would agree.


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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
You can't be very rich and a Christian at the same time.


Rich - as in material wealth - I don't think Sir Cliff would agree.


Of course he wouldn't, Ket, any more than any other filthy rich Christian would.

They always find a way to rationalise the contradiction to salve their consciences, but I don't think it would have impressed Jesus!  
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So . . . how do we measure 'rich'?  Bearing in mind we're all God's children (if not children of God), we've got to think globally - do we average out the world's wealth by dividing it by the number of people and say that anyone above the average is rich?

My answer is that I don't think so, because no 'measure' is given in the Bible . . . just an arbitary word, 'rich'.  It's a bigger picture and more about the heart and soul; the actions and intentions,  rather than the material.  Selfishly hold on to your material wealth and you will be poor.  Have a generosity of spirit, use the wealth wisely and for the greater good, you will be rich indeed.
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Lexilogio
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a good point here about wealth and Christianity.

I don't think you can be a genuine follower of Jesus if you live a materially wealthy lifestyle while others go without.

I'm trying to be careful in my words - there are those who earn plenty - but give away plenty, and don't live materially better than others they could help. I saw a documentary recently which featured a Buddhist family in Sri Lanka, which had very very high earnings, yet lived a comfortable, but simple life, and spent time every day taking food to the poor.
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Pukon_the_Treen
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evening Lynne,

Quote:
These articles Puke brought to our attention show how rife the atheists belief in false Christianity and how  much further it helps the atheists to become even further distanced from God.


Atheism for me is very simple.

All my life I have heard people telling me about God; they choose different ways to explain God, and they focus on different aspects of God and tell me various ways I should react to God and deal with His existence, but I've just never really understood why I should accept that He exists.

There is no evidence for Him, He doesn't seem necessary and I don't understand how such a being would exist or function. To me, God just seems to raise more questions than He answers, and unnecessarily complicate things, so I don't believe He exists. I could be wrong of course; there are many things I don't know and I am not infallible, but at the moment, taking into account the information available to me I don't think God exists.

Quote:
Is Atheism only stronger because of such articles and belief in a false Christianity?

Would an atheist, if reading the bible actually understand what the difference is?


Not sure about all this 'false Christian' stuff you are bringing up; I have no idea what a makes a Christian true or false, and whatever they say or however they present their religion, the basic problems I have with the idea of God remain.

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Do they choose what to believe according to their own bias?
They do say they cannot choose to believe.
But they do appear to choose their belief according to what they themselves feel.


I don't see how I have really 'chosen' not to believe in God, any more than I have chosen not to believe in alien abductions. Experience, evidence and reason lead me inescapably to that conclusion, so I don't see where choice of any kind enters into things.

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Is faith in atheism really about what they feel and their human traits?


I don't understand what you mean by 'faith' in atheism either. I don't believe God exists, but that doesn't mean I have faith in that position, any more than I have faith that there are no alien abductions. It's a strange word to use for someone who just rejects a particular idea.

I don't really understand all these efforts by Christians to try to crowbar atheism into religious terminology and framework. Why do you want atheism viewed as a religion? It doesn't conform to any definition of religion that I've ever heard.

Quote:
Do they just go for a different type of brainwashing?


I don't really understand what you mean by brainwashing in this context. Someone tells me their theory or ideas about how the universe works or whatever, I consider it and then say, “no I think that's true” … what brainwashing has taken place? Surely I'm just using reason, experience and evidence to evaluate and judge, just like everyone else does to reach their preferred explanations.

I can't help feeling I'm missing what you are trying to say in your OP. Maybe my brain is tired.
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Powwow
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been my experience that in the marginalized communities is you most often find those with the strongest faith. A faith that far outshines the weak fake of many wealthy Christians. This is what I have found among the marginalised first nations here in Canada. My friends live in third world conditions but with an unshakable faith.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pow wow wrote:
It's been my experience that in the marginalized communities is you most often find those with the strongest faith. A faith that far outshines the weak fake of many wealthy Christians. This is what I have found among the marginalised first nations here in Canada. My friends live in third world conditions but with an unshakable faith.

That is perfectly natural. Anybody whose life on this earth is one of deprivation and suffering (compared to that of the rich) are sitting ducks for swallowing the "better life after this one" story.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
Morning Leonard,

Leonard James wrote:

That is perfectly natural. Anybody whose life on this earth is one of deprivation and suffering (compared to that of the rich) are sitting ducks for swallowing the "better life after this one" story.


Why would anyone want a second life if the first was so bad?
Christianity is about life in all it's fullness now. Why swallow any story about the after life when it begins now?

xx  

Don't be daft, Lynne! You know perfectly well that Christianity offers a life of eternal happiness with God after death. For somebody whose earthly life is a penury, that is obviously a big attraction.

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