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Project Reason
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genghiscant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Project Reason  Reply with quote

http://www.project-reason.org/about/
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People look at the possibilities, choose the one that most appeals to them, and then work backwards to justify the position.
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The Boyg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They've got another club. That's nice for them.
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genghiscant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They've got another club. That's nice for them.


Yes, but we've got a long way to go before we reach the 38000 clubs that you've got.
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The Boyg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genghiscant wrote:
Quote:
They've got another club. That's nice for them.


Yes, but we've got a long way to go before we reach the 38000 clubs that you've got.


There's no need to be jealous, I'm sure you'll get there in the end.
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Leonard James
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Project Reason Reply with quote

genghiscant wrote:
http://www.project-reason.org/about/

Splendid! It's nice to see concrete moves to combat the sick indoctrination of religion that ensnares so many innocent people.
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cyberman
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are "secular values"?
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Shaker
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Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberman wrote:
What are "secular values"?

Values which are based on secular foundations, I'd imagine, i.e. those which don't take a religious ethos and religiously-based values into account. A value which is not predicated on the perceived wishes/desires/wants/needs of an alleged supernatural figure, I guess.
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:
cyberman wrote:
What are "secular values"?

Values which are based on secular foundations, I'd imagine, i.e. those which don't take a religious ethos and religiously-based values into account. A value which is not predicated on the perceived wishes/desires/wants/needs of an alleged supernatural figure, I guess.


And which values are those? This is just rephrasing the label; you haven't told me what values can be labelled as secular values.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberman wrote:
And which values are those? This is just rephrasing the label; you haven't told me what values can be labelled as secular values.

I don't see it as simply "rephrasing"; the concept that values can be constructed without reference to a supposed supernatural entity and its assumed wants/wishes/needs/desires seems clear and distinctive enough to me - clear and distinctive enough a difference from religiously-predicated values, I mean.

Try this on for size. I assert that a religiously-based worldview is founded ultimately (sometimes proximately, sometimes not, but always ultimately) upon four specific and discrete things - faith; authority; tradition; revelation. That as far as I can see is what makes any given value a distinctively religiously-inspired and religiously-motivated value. A secular value is one which doesn't admit these four things as admissible ways of forming values.

Of course, any given value can still be arrived at - coincidentally - from a religious or a secular perspective. Take, as an example, the current debate about assisted dying. Arguably the lion's share of opposition comes from those who espouse a religious worldview as previously defined (F/A/T/R). Nevertheless, there are those religious figures - Lord Carey and Desmond Tutu are exemplars here - who fully support the concept. They're religious men, not irreligious ones. Or take today's vote by the C of E to accept the ordination of female bishops. Once you hack your way through the thickets of verbiage, what these decisions ultimately boil down to is the the opinion that "[My conception of what I believe to be] God [in my personal opinion] approves of this [or contariwise] God disapproves of this." We know that most of the non-religious general public supports a law change in favour of strictly-safeguarded assisted dying. So do some religious people.

In short, two disparate groups of people - disparate because of the complete divergence of their views of the world and the nature of reality - have come to the same destination, but by a different route. When such coincidences occur the salient difference then becomes one of primary motive or worldview.
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So when Project Reason are asking for money so that they can promote "secular values", they just mean values which could be espoused by anyone?

What I don't recognise from what you have written above is your formulation along the lines of "I am against [e.g.] assisted dying simply because I think God is against it". As with women priests, one arrives at ones own conclusions about what is right and what is wrong. I think you are making an unjust assumption (you're not the only one to do this!) that theists are lazy and unreflective.

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