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The Lord's Prayer.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: The Lord's Prayer.  Reply with quote

We've prayed it, read it, maybe even got fed up listening to it, but the 'Lord's Prayer' has become embedded in Christian culture.
Though parts of what we call the Lord's Prayer are found in the Gospels, the complete version is only found in the Didache, or "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles", once part of the N.T canon, but removed on the grounds of dubious authorship.

There's one word that has always intrigued me: In the line "give us this day our daily bread", in the original Koine, the word the KJV translates as "daily", is 'epiousios- a curious word which actually translates (approximately) as tomorrow.
"Give us today our tomorrow bread" - or "Give us today our bread for tomorrow" puts a whole new slant on things, doesn't it?
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Powwow
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this making me think about the wandering tribes and how they would have to go out each morning and collect the manna that God had provided for them for the day?
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Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the 'Bread of Heaven' as the hymn has it; the manna.
Yes, I thought of that, pow wow. But I think the sense here is rather the spiritual nourishment we need to cope, rather than food for our bellies.
After all, the verses both before and after talk about spiritual things..."For give us our sins...." and "Do not bring us to the test".
That makes me think that this phrase is a plea for us to be nourished by the Spirit, presumably through the word, or study, so that we could get a greater understanding of our relationship with God, which is encapsulated in the prayer.
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Powwow
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim.
I get that. I was just thinking that we are asking for a continual supply of bread (spiritual). Unlike the Jews who had to go out each morning and collect their bread (not  spiritual) for only the one day. I don't know, just a thought.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And a good one.
That's making ME think.
The Jews depended on the manna; with out that, and the quails, they would simply die of starvation.
That's why, I suppose, Jesus put the 'epiousios' in there - daily bread, tomorrow bread, whatever. He knew that, without us constantly refreshing ourselves spiritualy, or learning mor about Him and His plans in our lives, depending on Him, we would simply die spiritually.
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Lexilogio
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be late in to this one. Επισιος is not quite tomorrow, it translates as ongoing, an extra which continues.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexi, yes, I know;
I was taking liberties a little, but the point I was making by doing so is that we limit the sense of the phrase by translating it as "daily bread". I feel it has a more spiritual sense, given its' context in both the Gospel and Didache settings.
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Lexilogio
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
Lexi, yes, I know;
I was taking liberties a little, but the point I was making by doing so is that we limit the sense of the phrase by translating it as "daily bread". I feel it has a more spiritual sense, given its' context in both the Gospel and Didache settings.


It does, it is more as something extra we receive, an addition to that which we have.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting that, despite rejecting the Didache from the canon on the grounds of dubious authorship - or, more probably, the 'Jewishness' of the book, the church retains the entirity of the prayer which can only be found in a book they rejected!
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
It's interesting that, despite rejecting the Didache from the canon on the grounds of dubious authorship - or, more probably, the 'Jewishness' of the book, the church retains the entirity of the prayer which can only be found in a book they rejected!


Not all the church does so...

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