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Thomas the believer.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Thomas the believer.  Reply with quote

A week later, His disciples were in the house again, and Thomas waswith them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them, and said "Peace be with you." Then He said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands.Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting, and believe."
Thomas said to Him "My Lord, and my God!"
Then Jesus told him,"Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed."
(John 20: 26-29, NIV )

  "My Lord, and my God".
We see this as a beautiful affirmation, a recognition of who Jesus was, and is, in Thomas' eyes. A confirmation of the God Incarnate which He made no effort to deny.
We see it, also, as a confirmatory text demonstrating the bodily resurrection of Christ, and the realisation that by His resurrection, all His teachings are confirmed.
Is there still room for doubt in our faith?
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Lexilogio
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about this passage the other day too.

My main thought was how blessed Thomas had Neenah to have that opportunity for confirmation.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
One of the things about the episode which really helped me when I first became a believer - and it still does, for that matter, is that Jesus never condemned Thomas for doubting, despite the evidence both from Christ's teaching, and amazed confirmation of the disciples. He simply gave Thomas the opportunity to deal with his doubts. I know He's done the same with me over the years, and used some of the questions I've raised to lead me into a deeper knowledge of Him.
Some evangelicals say that doubt, or indeed questioning the Gospel, is wrong. I totally disagree; I think it is a healthy way to secure our relationship with Christ, just as it was for Thomas.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figure it's more a case of challenging what people believe the gospels to say for instance what is Thomas recognising that he would not have recognised from this instance.

Matthew 3:16, 17
Look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove Godís spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said:

This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.

Here is an event that would give thomas freedoom from doubt, but doubt as to the person of the son of God being active and among them without having seen him is another question, and the statement made by the son regarding those who do not benefit from the actual experience of witnessing the son of God alive and active is seeming to the occassion.

The doubt of Thomas would not be as to whether Yashuah was the son of God, that would already have been confirmed, but as to whether he had risen from the tomb, this he could doubt.

Bear in mind that the son was barely recognisable after his ordeal, so reports without actual proof demands a heck of a lot of faith, just as it is needed today for those who cannot see and touch the wounds, gaunt and drained the son would have been a shadow of himself as he returned to health.

bernard (hug)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bna;
Thomas didn't say
"My Lord and the Son of God" - He said
"My Lord and my God!"
Jesus did not correct him, so thomas had the right of it.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

What Thomas said was a recognition of Yashuah as his lord and the presence of God through him, my Lord of me and my God of me.
He simply  reafirmed what he had come to doubt because he had not himself seen the risen son untill that time, his doubt that the son had risen was put to rest in his seeing and examining the wounds.
He unlike yourself had to be confirmed, you might be told of a step in front of you and step up when told, or in being told step up you might feel for the step. Trust in others or trust in what you now know for certain.

As I said in the post Thomas had knowledge of the dove and the words of God, had he been present or had he up till now had a doubt in what he  had been told? If he had been present then he would have had his own knowledge and trusted what he saw, but being suspect given the circumstances of Yashuah being given over by Judas, his trust in others is challenged.

The Jew had the inner sanctum God with us, they had gods in therir priests God with us, they had failure on behalf of their priests and their own demands, God not with us.

Many Jews named their children with the name, Yashuah, God with us, they looked to prophecy and hoped while at the same time acknowledging the comming of a messenger. Having the name did not then qualify a person but having God with them 'did'.

Bernard (hug)
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthew 3:16, 17
Look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove Godís spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said:

This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.
................

My lord of me and my God of me.

when you hold both testimonies together side by side, Gods spirit coming upon him and a voice saying this is My son then there can be no argument, and where there is one I remind people of how Moses performed, how the people felt God was no longer with them in his absence, and how Moses struck the rock when he had been told to speak to it, in the later instance the spirit of God had to be with Moses else striking the rock was more likely to have broke the stick rather than produce water.

bernard (hug)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Lord and the god of me?
Not in my Koine  studies - or theinterlinear, it doesn't.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever your inter or outers say Jim you cannot escape the truth of the matter and that is that God was 'with' the son, not become the son.

bernard (hug)
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
Whatever your inter or outers say


"Whatever"?! Bernard, this seems to read as though you are simply saying "don't confuse me with the facts - my mind's made up"!

What is your rationale for dismissing the actual words of what you believe to be an inerrant account with a flippant "Whatever"?

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