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LeClerc

Abram the Hebrew

Hi Farmer

Farmer Geddon wrote:

You really are a bit of a thickie...

You don't even know what Hebrew means..


‘’The Hebrew’’ a term that means one who has ''crossed over''.

Abram crossed over from the other place.

Genesis 12
1 Now YHWH had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram departed, as YHWH had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram [was] seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Abram separated himself from a world steeped in idolatry and polytheism by walking after, serving, and bowing down to One Elohiym, YHWH, who is the sole Creator of all things.

Genesis 14
1 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these [were] confederate with Abram.

Hebrew therefore has the meaning, as one who has crossed over from false idols to the walking after, serving and bowing down to the One true Elohiym, YHWH.

LeClerc
Farmer Geddon

I know what a Hebrew is Chirpy.. not quite the same as you state, but close enough.

But as I remember you tried to claim that Abram had "turned" into a Hebrew, which of course is nonsense - He was already a "Hebrew"!!
LeClerc

Hi Farmer

Farmer Geddon wrote:
I know what a Hebrew is Chirpy.. not quite the same as you state, but close enough.

But as I remember you tried to claim that Abram had "turned" into a Hebrew, which of course is nonsense - He was already a "Hebrew"!!


Was Abram a Hebrew before he ''crossed over'' ?

LeClerc
Farmer Geddon

Yes.. I take it you are chatting about him coming from the "other side" (ibiry) of the Euphrates River. Or a descendant of Eber (See Gen 11)..

Either way - He was a Hebrew before the Name change!!

That is a given.....
cyberman

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Yes.. I take it you are chatting about him coming from the "other side" (ibiry) of the Euphrates River. Or a descendant of Eber (See Gen 11)..

Either way - He was a Hebrew before the Name change!!


Wasn't he a Chaldean or something?
When did the word 'Hebrew' start to be used? I am not an OT scholar by a long chalk, but I thought it was later that that word comes into use? Like, Moses kind of time.
Farmer Geddon

It starts in Genesis 14 verse 13: "And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew--now he dwelt by the terebinths of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner; and these were confederate with Abram."

The Word used for "Hebrew" is ‛ibrı̂y  or Ibree. Which means  "one from beyond".

In Strongs it is numbered H5680, but in turn out to originate from a family name found in H5677; " ‛êber " an Eberite (that is, Hebrew) or descendant of Eber.

I'm still not sure what Chirpy is trying to Argue - I thought it was Abraham was called a Hebrew, not a Jew?
LeClerc

Hi Farmer

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Yes.. I take it you are chatting about him coming from the "other side" (ibiry) of the Euphrates River. Or a descendant of Eber (See Gen 11)..

Either way - He was a Hebrew before the Name change!!

That is a given.....


Sorry Farmer, I wasn't referring to the name change. Abram became a Hebrew when he crossed over, Abram was not born a Hebrew.

cyberman wrote:

Wasn't he a Chaldean or something?
When did the word 'Hebrew' start to be used? I am not an OT scholar by a long chalk, but I thought it was later that that word comes into use? Like, Moses kind of time.


Hi Cyberman

Genesis 11
Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there.

As far as the scriptures reveal, Abram was the first person to be called a Hebrew.

LeClerc
Farmer Geddon

So you agree "Abraham" was a Jew?
LeClerc

Hi Farmer

Farmer Geddon wrote:
So you agree "Abraham" was a Jew?


No I don't agree, Abraham was not a Jew, he was a Hebrew.

A Yahudi is of the tribe of Yahudah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob)

LeClerc
Farmer Geddon

So just for clarification - Why was Abraham not a Jew?

Are you trying to claim he was an "Arab"?
LeClerc

Hi Farmer

Farmer Geddon wrote:
So just for clarification - Why was Abraham not a Jew?

Are you trying to claim he was an "Arab"?


The word/name "Jew" is not a Hebrew word, it's English. There is no letter "J" or "J" equivalent in the Hebrew language. As a matter of fact, the letter "J" is one of the last letters to be added to the English alphabet. It was created in the 1600's in France, so there was not a letter "J" in existence during biblical times. In English, one of the definitions of who is a Jew is, those who practice a religion called Judaism. Since the ancient Hebrews didn't practice a religion called Judaism, the name Jew could not refer to the biblical children of Israel or their modern day descendants.

Abram was certainly therefore not a Jew, he was not one of the twelve tribes of Israel, since Israel was still future.  I believe Abram was a Shemite and became a Hebrew when he crossed over.

There is much to discuss here Farmer.

LeClerc

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