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Powwow

Atheist minister?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/gre...church-minister-atheist-1.3506390

That there is a atheist minister in the most liberal church in my nation is no surprise, but I certainly will have a bit of respect for UC of C if they show that lady the door.

A year or so ago I was browsing on the internet for some history on my city when I came upon this. Saw my dad's name and clicked on the link. I was shocked at hearing dad's voice as I was a little kid at this service and forgot all about it and I had almost forgot the sound of my dad's voice. Anyways he tells a story of the creation of the United Church of Canada and what made my grandparents leave. That church had started to leave the preaching of the gospel behind right from the get go.


http://qt.lexicom.ab.ca:8000/aber...ight_downtown_bethel_aug29_76.mp3
Leonard James

As usual, it boils down to  personal interpretation of the Bible. Why on earth can't all Christians get along together as Jesus taught they should?
Powwow

Because we are human and though some think we should be evolving into a more perfect creature, the Bible tells us that for a Christian it is a daily struggle to live as Christ taught us. A struggle worth continuing I must say.

As far as the United Church, it is dying because they have pushed aside preaching the whole gospel exchange for the social gospel. This my dad shared to the congregation of what drove my grandparents away from that church back in it's early days. I do feel for those that have stuck with that church and are fighting to keep the preaching of salvation through Christ.
Leonard James

Powwow wrote:
Because we are human and though some think we should be evolving into a more perfect creature, the Bible tells us that for a Christian it is a daily struggle to live as Christ taught us. A struggle worth continuing I must say.


I don't think respecting our fellow-man is a struggle at all, except when you meet a particularly unpleasant one ... but then it's quite easy to just ignore him.

Quote:
As far as the United Church, it is dying because they have pushed aside preaching the whole gospel exchange for the social gospel.


That is precisely where science wins out over the church. It recognises its mistakes and corrects them.

Quote:
This my dad shared to the congregation of what drove my grandparents away from that church back in it's early days. I do feel for those that have stuck with that church and are fighting to keep the preaching of salvation through Christ.


It is difficult to feel sorry for people who stubbornly refuse to accept that some of the Bible teaching is not Christian.
Powwow

In the context of the op, it is not disrespect to have a problem with a minister of your church being atheist. Removing her from her position in this church is not disrespect either.

You take to the notion of man evolving in a Darwinian fashion. Survival of the fittest, we are animals and will evolve, weeding out the week along the way. Into being what? A super human god-like race that Dawkins preaches about? Well that, Leo, will take a lot of disrespecting and is not Christian at all.

Science and the bible are not in a battle, they complement each other. And science hasn't won anything, as you know atheism peaked in the early 70s and has been in decline ever since. Faith continues to grow and science is what helps to explore and explain this amazing creation, little by little.

It is very Christian to preach the words of Christ and the United Church is dying as it abandons those word. It is the churches that are preaching the gospel that are growing. A church down the street has to hold 3 Sunday services for the thousands that attend. The UCof Canada is lucky to have a quarter of it's pews filled Sunday. Science has no stake in it's death.
Leonard James

Powwow wrote:

You take to the notion of man evolving in a Darwinian fashion. Survival of the fittest, we are animals and will evolve, weeding out the week along the way. Into being what? A super human god-like race that Dawkins preaches about?


Neither I nor anybody else knows what humans will evolve into, or whether they will just become extinct. The fact is that reproduction and natural selection will continue inexorably as long as life exists on this planet.

Quote:
Well that, Leo, will take a lot of disrespecting and is not Christian at all.


I try to disrespect nobody, even though I am not a Christian. If everybody did so, many of our problems would disappear.
Powwow

As far as getting along and respecting each other, yes Christians fail, and we know that atheism isn't the solution. Famous atheists are known for disrespecting fellow atheists and all that get in their way. We can just look at atheist regimes the world over and their habit of purging their ranks and attacking people of faith. War is part of our flawed human nature it has always been and will continue to be part of our nature and no evolutionary theory is going to rid us of that.
Powwow

I know you try not to disrespect people, and I bet you are successful at that. Is it easy? Well with some it must be a challenge for you.

I respect those that act respectfully. But, sometimes people should not be respected. For example, the other day I notified Gordon, of Religion and Ethics Forum, that because it is now considered humour to post for the rounding up and shooting of evangelicals, that I must have my membership terminated. I informed Gordon that I have no respect for him because I believe he would not allow such posts were pagans or homosexuals or any other group the target of such hate "humour".  And I was right in not respecting him. He immediately banned me, telling all on his, I just banned so and so thread. Was he honest, that it was a retaliation for my expressing my low opinion of him? No, he made no mention in his banning thread that I actually demanded the removal of my membership and his banning was a retaliation.
I don't respect the head moderator of Religion and Ethics Forum nor that forum for it's new position on targeting Christians for posts that call for their shooting. Religion and Ethics Forum has become a blatantly open hate site.
Leonard James

Powwow wrote:
As far as getting along and respecting each other, yes Christians fail, and we know that atheism isn't the solution. Famous atheists are known for disrespecting fellow atheists and all that get in their way. We can just look at atheist regimes the world over and their habit of purging their ranks and attacking people of faith. War is part of our flawed human nature it has always been and will continue to be part of our nature and no evolutionary theory is going to rid us of that.


Yes to all of this, except your idea that human nature is flawed. There is nothing flawed about it ... it came about by natural processes. For our own good we have to control it, which is why we have developed moral codes, built on primitive, natural, group species instincts.
Leonard James

Powwow wrote:
I know you try not to disrespect people, and I bet you are successful at that. Is it easy? Well with some it must be a challenge for you.

I respect those that act respectfully. But, sometimes people should not be respected. For example, the other day I notified Gordon, of Religion and Ethics Forum, that because it is now considered humour to post for the rounding up and shooting of evangelicals, that I must have my membership terminated. I informed Gordon that I have no respect for him because I believe he would not allow such posts were pagans or homosexuals or any other group the target of such hate "humour".  And I was right in not respecting him. He immediately banned me, telling all on his, I just banned so and so thread. Was he honest, that it was a retaliation for my expressing my low opinion of him? No, he made no mention in his banning thread that I actually demanded the removal of my membership and his banning was a retaliation.
I don't respect the head moderator of Religion and Ethics Forum nor that forum for it's new position on targeting Christians for posts that call for their shooting. Religion and Ethics Forum has become a blatantly open hate site.


I find this all a tad dramatic. There is no need to disrespect people, although we can. of course, disrespect some of their ideas and tell them so in the politest way possible.

Everybody is his own master, and what we get out of life is dependent on our attitude to others.
Powwow

What I am trying to get at is the fact that atheists don't appear any more respectful than the rest.  If we don't have a flawed nature, then why, even among civilized peoples, do we kill each other, go to war, over disagreements? War is a part of our flawed human nature, it has always been with us and science and evolution won't get rid of it. Science will just change how we go about war. There is the evolution, not our flawed nature but how we go about showing our flaw. Science can't touch human nature and I see no evidence that it will evolve.
If we can't all get along and respect each other, then I ask as you did, why? What is in our nature to make us kill? You may wonder why Christians don't all get along and I ask why atheists don't. You see no flaw but I am convince there is something that needs to be fixed about us. I believe that Christians struggle to live as Christ commanded because of our human nature and this is why all won't respect each other as you want them to. You can call for people to respect each other and that is good, but what goes wrong those rare times when you yourself slip and disrespect somebody? Do you look in the mirror and blame it on religion or do you blame it on your nature, blame it on the fact that, like the rest of us, you are not perfect, but are imperfect, flawed.


"War is always existing by nature between every Greek city state."   Plato
trentvoyager

Powwow

Just as an aside - I'm saddened that you felt it necessary to leave R&E but having felt the temptation myself I'm not altogether surprised that you have left.

Just be aware that even when I disagree with your posts which I do more often than not I still enjoy your posting - you make me laugh quite a bit which in itself is a good thing.

At present I'm not around that much due to what they apparently refer to as real life so only realised today that you were gone.

My best wishes to you.
The Boyg

trentvoyager wrote:
Powwow

Just as an aside - I'm saddened that you felt it necessary to leave R&E but having felt the temptation myself I'm not altogether surprised that you have left.

Just be aware that even when I disagree with your posts which I do more often than not I still enjoy your posting - you make me laugh quite a bit which in itself is a good thing.

At present I'm not around that much due to what they apparently refer to as real life so only realised today that you were gone.

My best wishes to you.


There are people who have responsibility in that group who want to turn it into a homogenous nodfest.

They are slowly getting their way.
trentvoyager

The Boyg wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Powwow

Just as an aside - I'm saddened that you felt it necessary to leave R&E but having felt the temptation myself I'm not altogether surprised that you have left.

Just be aware that even when I disagree with your posts which I do more often than not I still enjoy your posting - you make me laugh quite a bit which in itself is a good thing.

At present I'm not around that much due to what they apparently refer to as real life so only realised today that you were gone.

My best wishes to you.


There are people who have responsibility in that group who want to turn it into a homogenous nodfest.

They are slowly getting their way.


I'm not sure it is an intentional move - but I do think that it is happening.
Whether by accident or design I'm not sure.
Leonard James

The Boyg wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Powwow

Just as an aside - I'm saddened that you felt it necessary to leave R&E but having felt the temptation myself I'm not altogether surprised that you have left.

Just be aware that even when I disagree with your posts which I do more often than not I still enjoy your posting - you make me laugh quite a bit which in itself is a good thing.

At present I'm not around that much due to what they apparently refer to as real life so only realised today that you were gone.

My best wishes to you.


There are people who have responsibility in that group who want to turn it into a homogenous nodfest.

They are slowly getting their way.


Can somebody please explain to this oldie what exactly a "homogenous nodfest" is?
Powwow

Thank you Trent. Ya, we don't agree a lot but I respect you. If I didn't it would be a hard thing for me to apologize when I've wrong you in some way. But it isn't hard with you, you're a good person.  Oh, I'll pop in here and lean against a tombstone from time to time. Drawing designs in the sand with a stick, waiting for some ghost to appear. (smilies)
Powwow

Well it is an increasingly hostile environment to people of the Christian faith over there, Leo. The moderation is not without bias. I think Ketty was longsuffering going to bat for Christians and pointing out the bias moderation. Leo, do you believe if I had on a serious thread, posted that all pagans should be rounded up and shot, that the mods would not have taken action against me?
Ippy got away with calling for the shooting of evangelicals because ippy was not me and it was evangelicals, not gays or some other group targeted. Never have I seen such a post over there? You know Rhi posted a little piece in her section on the wind whipping her coat about ,smacking her face, rain pelting her. The wind moaning and that's all she needs. Well I made fun of the moans of the wind and Rhi liking the whipping, the smacking and pelting. She had a melt down and Gordon instantly removed my post and warned me not to mention what she gets out of nature. But an atheist can call for people like my parents to be shot and call it a joke later on. And I, after demanding my membership be terminated, get banned as a retaliation and the head mod misleads you members by not mentioning that the ban was a retaliation to my demand.
It is becoming a site where all will nod to each other in a herd mentality when going after a people of faith. It is hostile over there. Believe it or not there are Christians that are really good people, I cringe thinking of one of them looking in at the site and comes across a post calling for their murder.
Powwow

And I'll tell ya this. I'm to watch for that post of Ippy's appearing again. Some people want to have a look at it if it does and do a bit of investigating . Wink, wink.
trentvoyager

Quote:
Can somebody please explain to this oldie what exactly a "homogenous nodfest" is?


I  think what Boyg is saying is that it is turning into a group of like minded people all agreeing with each other.
Powwow

Changing the subject, has anybody heard from Anchorman/Jim?
The Boyg

trentvoyager wrote:
Quote:
Can somebody please explain to this oldie what exactly a "homogenous nodfest" is?


I  think what Boyg is saying is that it is turning into a group of like minded people all agreeing with each other.


Spot on.
The Boyg

Powwow wrote:
Changing the subject, has anybody heard from Anchorman/Jim?


He posted on Facebook a few weeks ago. His screenreader has an issue with the adverts on R&E and freezes whenever he tries to access the site.
Leonard James

The Boyg wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Quote:
Can somebody please explain to this oldie what exactly a "homogenous nodfest" is?


I  think what Boyg is saying is that it is turning into a group of like minded people all agreeing with each other.


Spot on.


Wow, judging by the prolonged arguments that go on there I would hardly call it a nodfest!
The Boyg

Leonard James wrote:
Wow, judging by the prolonged arguments that go on there I would hardly call it a nodfest!


Only because the invasion of the bodysnatchers isn't complete over there yet.
Powwow

How many of those arguments are actually old arguments being argued by the same old people? Floo is great at resurrecting dead threads, never adding anything new to it, just repeating herself, over and over, year after year. Sometimes it's best to just shoot that cow and go to bed early. Shoot the dead thread, not floo, honest indian.
trentvoyager

Powwow wrote:
How many of those arguments are actually old arguments being argued by the same old people? Floo is great at resurrecting dead threads, never adding anything new to it, just repeating herself, over and over, year after year. Sometimes it's best to just shoot that cow and go to bed early. Shoot the dead thread, not floo, honest indian.


I may have to moderate you.


Joke, honest!
Leonard James

None of which alters the fact that the forum isn't a nodfest, as suggested. QED.
The Boyg

Leonard James wrote:
None of which alters the fact that the forum isn't a nodfest, as suggested. QED.


You can put that strawman down now Leonard.

Because I didn't say that it was.

Try reading for comprehension next time.  
Powwow

Since I brought up a bovine slant, I must say that there is an ever increasing herd mentality over there. The Holsteins really gather together in the barn yard and go after any critter that comes along looking and acting different.

https://student.societyforscience...ent-2015/350%20rare%20breeds3.jpg



http://www.theluxuryspot.com/wp-c...hot-2014-12-23-at-10.42.53-AM.png
genghiscant

I don't understand why an athiest would want to become a minister in the first place.

Atheism isn't a religion, organisation, club or cult. It's just a disbelief in gods. There are different degrees of disbelief, as many as there are disbelievers.

I might go to see an athiest minister out of curiosity, but I certainly wouldn't become a follower.

The very idea goes against my instincts.
Leonard James

The Boyg wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
None of which alters the fact that the forum isn't a nodfest, as suggested. QED.


You can put that strawman down now Leonard.

Because I didn't say that it was.

Try reading for comprehension next time.  


So what does the first post on this page mean if not that?
Jim

[quote="Leonard James:127847"]As usual, it boils down to  personal interpretation of the Bible. Why on earth can't all Christians get along together as Jesus taught they should?[/quote  

-
Presumably, this person took some sort of vow at ordination/induction, and that vow must have included the promise to adhere to the credal statements of the church to which they were ordained.
Iknow little of this denomination, but in the case of my own denomination, even though I disagree (sometimes strongly) with the liberal wing, I recognise that those ministers and elders who are ordained must adhere to the Apostles creed at the very least....otherwise they are living a lie and dishonour the office they hold.
The Boyg

Leonard James wrote:

So what does the first post on this page mean if not that?


Try reading for comprehension Lenny:

The Boyg wrote:
There are people who have responsibility in that group who want to turn it into a homogenous nodfest.

They are slowly getting their way.


trentvoyager wrote:

I  think what Boyg is saying is that it is turning into a group of like minded people all agreeing with each other.


No one said that it is the current state.

So your 'QED' was based on a strawman.

Well done, you disproved something that no one had claimed in the first place.  
Leonard James

The Boyg wrote:
Leonard James wrote:

So what does the first post on this page mean if not that?


Try reading for comprehension Lenny:

The Boyg wrote:
There are people who have responsibility in that group who want to turn it into a homogenous nodfest.

They are slowly getting their way.


trentvoyager wrote:

I  think what Boyg is saying is that it is turning into a group of like minded people all agreeing with each other.


No one said that it is the current state.

So your 'QED' was based on a strawman.

Well done, you disproved something that no one had claimed in the first place.  


So I see. Never mind, one straw man from me doesn't have a chance against your army of them.  
The Boyg

Leonard James wrote:
Never mind, one straw man from me doesn't have a chance against your army of them.


Please present links to this "army of strawman" of mine Leonard or be exposed as a liar.
Leonard James

The Boyg wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Never mind, one straw man from me doesn't have a chance against your army of them.


Please present links to this "army of strawman" of mine Leonard or be exposed as a liar.


         

You really are a silly git, ain'tcha?  
The Boyg

Leonard James wrote:
The Boyg wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Never mind, one straw man from me doesn't have a chance against your army of them.


Please present links to this "army of strawman" of mine Leonard or be exposed as a liar.


         

You really are a silly git, ain'tcha?  


So you can present no evidence in support of your claim of an "army of strawmen" arguments employed by me then.

Your lie is duly noted.

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