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Lexilogio

Book of James

I was reading James, and was thinking about this verse:

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

It's from the NIT version. And I wondered if this was some of the justification some rich people feel for enjoying their wealth, instead of distributing it to the poor - or at least those who have worked for their wealth.

But when I looked at other versions:
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The KJV is a little different. Blessed is he who endures temptation - not quite the same thing as a trial. A trial could be long hours, hard work, but a temptation is clearer.

The same verse in Greek:
Μακάριος ἀνὴρ ὃς ὑπομένει πειρασμόν, ὅτι δόκιμος γενόμενος λήμψεται τὸν στέφανον τῆς ζωῆς ὃν ἐπηγγείλατο τοῖς ἀγαπῶσιν αὐτόν.
The Greek uses "πειρασμόν" which means temptation.

I'm not making a point here as such, I just found it interesting, and wondered if others thought that the NIV was a mistranslation here?
Farmer Geddon

I have also seen it written as "Blessed is one who endures a test, for when one has stood the test, that one will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him."

The use of the word "trial" instead could just be trying to invoke, in the listener, the major trail in the gospels...
Farmer Geddon

Who do you think wrote the Epistle of James?
Lexilogio

Blessed is one who endures a test is interesting - but still not the same as temptation.
A test, like a trial, could be attributed to working hard - as opposed to following God's way.

The gospel of James was written by one of Jesus' disciples - I believe it's attributed to a cousin of Jesus.
Farmer Geddon

Hmm There are several pointers that hint that the writer of this epistle never knew Jesus - so it's yet another of those; lets use a known name to give authority to this writing..

But back to your original point:

Quote:
I wondered if this was some of the justification some rich people feel for enjoying their wealth, instead of distributing it to the poor - or at least those who have worked for their wealth.


Surely part 5 of this letter, where the writer denounces the wicked rich kinda countermands this notion?

Or are you talking about the heathen rich? LOL
Lexilogio

Quote:
Surely part 5 of this letter, where the writer denounces the wicked rich kinda countermands this notion?

Or are you talking about the heathen rich?  LOL


True - book 5 does categorically denounce the rich.

And yet - you only have to look at the USA to see how many declare their Christianity while parading their wealth - even some who claim to be pastors.
Even in the UK - we are all considered rich in comparison to the rest of the world.

So how do these rich people who claim Christianity justify their wealth?
Farmer Geddon

You are talking about these TV Evangelist Charlatans aren't you?
Lexilogio

Lucifers Duck wrote:
You are talking about these TV Evangelist Charlatans aren't you?


I am.
How do they justify their wealth?
Farmer Geddon

I dunno Lexi - But they should have 1 Timothy 6:10 tattooed on their foreheads and the verse tattooed on their forearm:

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
Lexilogio

Equally there is a further argument in Timothy which suggests it's ok to be wealthy if you are generous and share.

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

But herein lies one of the great questions in any Church - how much is generous?
Farmer Geddon

How about this generous:
Quote:
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 10
Lexilogio

Seems like one guy is planning exactly that
Farmer Geddon

Good for him....  What about you?  Would you sacrifice or are you happy doing a meagre contribution?

(I don't before you ask - Not enough of it gets where it needs to for me to consider it..)
Leonard James

Lucifers Duck wrote:
Good for him.... What about you? Would you sacrifice or are you happy doing a meagre contribution?

(I don't before you ask - Not enough of it gets where it needs to for me to consider it..)

I'm not quite in agreement with you there, Luci.

I contribute monthly to UNICEF by standing order even though I am aware that much of the money is swallowed in administration. The essential thing is that it is better for a little to arrive where it is needed than nothing at all.
Judders Lady...

Leonard James wrote:
Lucifers Duck wrote:
Good for him.... What about you? Would you sacrifice or are you happy doing a meagre contribution?

(I don't before you ask - Not enough of it gets where it needs to for me to consider it..)

I'm not quite in agreement with you there, Luci.

I contribute monthly to UNICEF by standing order even though I am aware that much of the money is swallowed in administration. The essential thing is that it is better for a little to arrive where it is needed than nothing at all.


Hello Leonard,

I contribute to charities by standing order
I also give to other charities but anonamously. So the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.

The thing I find most annoying about arguments over the money is the fact God shows us it is all about truth...
When Christ talks to the rich young man who knowing he had lived his life in accordance with the law.

Matthew 19:16-26.

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.



The moral of the this has nothing to do with the amount of possessions or wealth. The moral showed some truths that most believers walk past today.

1. Christ showed that though this man obeyed the Law he thought he
had made it.

2. It was not the amount of his possessions but that he loved them more than God and that had he being willing to give up his possessions it would have shown where his heart truly lay in obeying God. Whilst life is easy it is easy to obey God. Had the man loved God more than his possessions then giving them up would not have been a problem.
You cannot love both God and Money.

Matthew 6:24 (King James Version)

24.No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Jobs faith was not about, what God, could give him or about what he had.
It was simply about him knowing and serving God. God restores and gives him wealth yet again.

Deuteronomy 8:18 (King James Version)

18.But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.


Wealth is the servant of those who serve God. The wealth of some preachers is not about the wealth as with Job it is about the truth that they belong to the Lord.

Christ says,

26.But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Christians having money is not a sign they are serving money or self.
As God says the tare and wheat grow together. But the truth is seen as to whether they use the wealth for the good of others and the growth of the kingdom. If like Job you love God then the truth will always be more important than any possession. Christ saying if you love Mother, Father, Brother or Sister more than me, you are not fit to be called my disciples.

Christ knows as does every believer all good things come from God and all things belong to those who are born from God. The Word says God stores up the wealth of the wicked for the righteous. That wicked men have no descendants eventually they are not there anymore. But the riches of the righteous and their descendants possess the land.
Gods truth is- and his descendants are those who believe in Jesus Christ as John says in
John 1:12-13.
12.But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13.Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



The wealth of truth as Job shows in that God says,

Job 42:7. And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.


Job lived and spoke the truth about God. The same can be said of many people judging the wealth of the righteous. Those who are spiritual


1 Corinthians 2:9-16 (King James Version)

11.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.



15.But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.




So you cannot love God more than money. But there is nothing stopping God giving money to those who put money in it's rightful place when serving him. We know in truth that all these things are not important when in Christ. We know that if we love God and put him first then there is no reason to believe that others are not doing the same because he has blessed them with wealth.

We see we cannot give to others if God does not give to us. God loves a cheerful giver and those who give receive. The covenant with the jews and the 10% ensured the priests needs met and that the giver blessed in doing so. God does not intend us to sit in rags with nothing. His blessings are for all who believe. Because man does not rely on the limitations of flesh for the abundance in the spiritual. Just as the material blessings are from the Lord on those who walk in his truth. Those who know all good things come from God and it is his own that we give back and to others.

Nothing is of or from ourselves. With or without money we will always have God and his truth.
Farmer Geddon

Nah Len ...

Sorry but I'm not falling for that.

Any the monies I donate should ALL go the cause I have paid to.

I'd much rather give a fiver to a beggar in the street to buy his booze or fags or whatever than to an organisation to glean off a large %age for it's own personal use.

The only "registered charity" I regularly give to is the "Big Issue" - I know only 80p of my 1.50 goes to the vendor but at least I get something in return which counterbalances my contribution..
Judders Lady...

Lucifers Duck wrote:
Nah Len ...

Sorry but I'm not falling for that.

Any the monies I donate should ALL go the cause I have paid to.

I'd much rather give a fiver to a beggar in the street to buy his booze or fags or whatever than to an organisation to glean off a large %age for it's own personal use.

The only "registered charity" I regularly give to is the "Big Issue" - I know only 80p of my 1.50 goes to the vendor but at least I get something in return which counterbalances my contribution..


That's why when I buy the big issue I always give more than the going cost to make sure the person selling it gets more than they expected.

Whilst the 'Big issue' provides a certain amount of money they have to pay for accommodation and meals from that money.  The sooner they make their money the sooner they are off the street and more comfortable.  As for the fiver you 'skinflint' the going rate is 20 quid not a fiver.  I have seen lives change for giving of 20 quid so dig deeper in your pocket man. I bet you can't get a bottle of vodka for a fiver.
You will be driving them to stealing next with a fiver :wink:  :lol:
Leonard James

We each do what we think is right. Some, like me, give to charity out of normal human compassion, others seem to do it because Jesus told them to.

As long as it arrives where it is needed, the motivation matters not one jot.
Lexilogio

Yes I do give regularly to charity.

I'm probably below average in UK assets - but well above when you consider the third world.

So yes - I probably should give more.

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