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Shaker

C of E says yes to female bishops

An inevitable move but also the right one:
Quote:
The Church of England has finally agreed that women may become bishops, ending 20 years of bitter compromises since women were allowed to become priests in 1994.

The Synod had been threatened with parliamentary action if the measure had failed, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, had prepared contingency plans to dissolve it and call fresh elections if the vote had gone the wrong way.

But the crisis was averted by a change of mind, and vote, among lay members. A previous attempt in 2012 failed when 74 lay members voted against, preventing the required two-thirds majority among the laity.
cyberman

Re: C of E says yes to female bishops

Shaker wrote:
An inevitable move but also the right one:
Quote:
The Church of England has finally agreed that women may become bishops, ending 20 years of bitter compromises since women were allowed to become priests in 1994.

The Synod had been threatened with parliamentary action if the measure had failed, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, had prepared contingency plans to dissolve it and call fresh elections if the vote had gone the wrong way.

But the crisis was averted by a change of mind, and vote, among lay members. A previous attempt in 2012 failed when 74 lay members voted against, preventing the required two-thirds majority among the laity.


Absolutely right. The compromising and pandering which has gone on to appease the minority within the CofE who wouldn't accept their church's position has been appalling. I'm very impressed that Welby has decided to take control at last.
Ketty

I couldn't be more pleased for my sisters.  
cyberman

Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.

Well, bugger me.

I was just about to write a comment about you - your values - clearly being in the wrong Heinz 57 of Christianity and patently better suited elsewhere. But you beat me to it.

Bumholes.

I think - I don't know, but I strongly believe - that you would greatly like and appreciate the various writings of Chet Raymo (b. 1936), a Catholic-raised astronomer who writes beautifully and wonderfully well about the interface of science and religion, especially in Skeptics and True Believers and (perhaps especially) When God Is Gone, Everything is Holy. Two fascinating books that I've loved deeply and dearly for some years (and, coincidentally, have re-read very recently).

I may be wrong but I think you'd like him very much.
Ketty

cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.


Oh my, what will the Anglican clergy who've moved to the Catholic church do then?  

One day they'll listen . . . or maybe a better word would be 'hear'.
cyberman

Shaker wrote:
cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.

Well, bugger me.

I was just about to write a comment about you - your values - clearly being in the wrong Heinz 57 of Christianity and patently better suited elsewhere. But you beat me to it.

Bumholes.

I think - I don't know, but I strongly believe - that you would greatly like and appreciate the various writings of Chet Raymo (b. 1936), a Catholic-raised astronomer who writes beautifully and wonderfully well about the interface of science and religion, especially in Skeptics and True Believers and (perhaps especially) When God Is Gone, Everything is Holy. Two fascinating books that I've loved deeply and dearly for some years (and, coincidentally, have re-read very recently).

I may be wrong but I think you'd like him very much.


Well, I certainly place great store by your recommendations, so I shall look them up and give them a try.

My list of things to read is about 700 years long at the moment, but I'll see if I can bump these to the top!

I'm not in the wrong tradition! I'm sure history will find that all the other Catholics are wrong, and I'm right all along. There is emphatically no coherent theological argument for refusing to ordain women.
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
Well, I certainly place great store by your recommendations, so I shall look them up and give them a try.

Thank you - that's a lovely thing to say. Raymo is a damned good writer, a sweet (not meant disparagingly in any way whatever), kindly, engaging and lovely man and writer who writes clearly and well about interesting things. Do give him a go - in the words of W. Connolly Esq., formerly of Glasgow, now resident in Los Angeles, you'll be the better for it. I am

Quote:
My list of things to read is about 700 years long at the moment, but I'll see if I can bump these to the top!

Know that feel, bro! (I have been made aware that this is an internet meme, based upon working class African-American vernacular, for fully understanding and sharing in/empathising with another's fellow's predicament).

Quote:
I'm not in the wrong tradition!

Sure you are
Ketty

cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.


Off topic, but vaguely related: A young relative has just started working for the Catholic Church.  They know I'm a Christian believer, but I only ever talk of Jesus, not religion, and I'm not of Catholic tradition. They have no Faith (yet   ).  Bless 'em, they're off out to a 'do' hosted by an Archbishop and they have just texted me because they don't want to appear foolish in their lack of understanding. By text I've had to do a potted history of Protestant/Catholic story,  but have majored on what unites us rather than divides.
JamesJah

What does the almighty have to say on the matter?
MikeRan

Ketty wrote:
cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.


Oh my, what will the Anglican clergy who've moved to the Catholic church do then?  

One day they'll listen . . . or maybe a better word would be 'hear'.


I have wondered if any ex Anglican clergy who became Catholic because of the ordination of women have since been disillusioned or otherwise changed their mind. Does anyone know of any? What would they do next?
cyberman

MikeRan wrote:
Ketty wrote:
cyberman wrote:
Meanwhile, I continue to argue for the ordination of women in the Catholic church. Sadly, no-one listens to me. Never mind.


Oh my, what will the Anglican clergy who've moved to the Catholic church do then?  

One day they'll listen . . . or maybe a better word would be 'hear'.


I have wondered if any ex Anglican clergy who became Catholic because of the ordination of women have since been disillusioned or otherwise changed their mind. Does anyone know of any? What would they do next?


Did you have in mind any particular thing which you think might have caused this disillusionment?
MikeRan

No, it was just a thought. Continuing to think about it, it is possible that some have had a change of heart about the ordination of women as many non clergy have. What seems very important at one time may be less so at a later date. I was (mentally) putting myself in that position and had an overwhelming feeling of desolation.
Not all ex C.ofE. Catholic priests changed because of womens ordination though, we must remember that.
JamesJah

How much longer are the churches going to be tolerated, making up religion as that suits them and not the creator who they profess to worship?

Why did God say get out of her my people?
MikeRan

That is a good point. Too much religion& Tradition which obscures faith. Yet it is human nature to get caught up in it. Makes me weary.
Leonard James

The very idea that women should be excluded from holding any kind of office in any religion at all is ludicrous and offensive.

Women's capacity to take on such posts is just as good as men's, and to believe otherwise is bigoted and sexist.
cyberman

Leonard James wrote:
The very idea that women should be excluded from holding any kind of office in any religion at all is ludicrous and offensive.

Women's capacity to take on such posts is just as good as men's, and to believe otherwise is bigoted and sexist.


I quite agree
Jim

Re: C of E says yes to female bishops

Shaker wrote:
An inevitable move but also the right one:
Quote:
The Church of England has finally agreed that women may become bishops, ending 20 years of bitter compromises since women were allowed to become priests in 1994.

The Synod had been threatened with parliamentary action if the measure had failed, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, had prepared contingency plans to dissolve it and call fresh elections if the vote had gone the wrong way.

But the crisis was averted by a change of mind, and vote, among lay members. A previous attempt in 2012 failed when 74 lay members voted against, preventing the required two-thirds majority among the laity.


-
Well, the Presbyterian understanding of the root word (episkapos) from which the CofE and other churches derive the office of bishop, is different to that of 'episcopal' churches.

That being said, my only comment is that if they allow women vicars, there is no reason for them not to allow women bishops as well.

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