Archive for nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Nglreturns is a forum to discuss religion, philosophy, ethics etc...

NGLReturns Daily Quiz - Play here!
 



       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Lexilogio

Christmas Message

I'm curious.

Those who do not believe - do you think Christmas is simply a season of commerciality? Or do you think there is a deeper message (excluding religion)?

This evening I have sat down to watch "The Grinch" with my kids. Its a bit of a family favourite.

There is, of course, a message, within the film. That Christmas isn't about commerciality and presents, but about family, friendship, and love for others.

Now, being a believer, I do think Christmas is about these things - because of Jesus. But I wondered if non believers shared the hopes about Christmas being a time for forgiveness and love? We did have a sense around the Millennium of trying for a united and peaceful time. That seems to have been largely abandoned.

Thoughts? (Apart from "Lexi's opened the whisky....")
trentvoyager

I think I feel that hope for love and forgiveness ....whetherthats a n effect of living in a society based in some part on Christian values, or whether its my own soppy susceptibility to "A Christmas Carol" I'm not sure.

As an aside I watched the Alistair Sim version earlier today....in a bastardised colourised version   why can't they leave things alone......grumpy old man mode !
Ketty

Forgiveness and love?  I heard on the radio today the average family has 5 arguments on Christmas Day, the first starting at 10.15 am.

How do 'they' know these things?
Shaker

Re: Christmas Message

Lexilogio wrote:
I'm curious.


Said that for years

Quote:
Those who do not believe - do you think Christmas is simply a season of commerciality? Or do you think there is a deeper message (excluding religion)?

Christmas clearly is a season of commerciality and it does nobody any good to complain about something that isn't going to change, ever. We've not yet achieved Mr Marx's communistic paradise so we still live in a commercialised filthy capitalist pig world, like it or not and inevitably Christmas isn't going to escape that. But it's not just that: it's a public holiday and it's importance to non-religious people is as a time of feasting, gift-giving and receiving and for spending with family and friends - if you want it to be.

Quote:
This evening I have sat down to watch "The Grinch" with my kids. Its a bit of a family favourite.

There is, of course, a message, within the film. That Christmas isn't about commerciality and presents, but about family, friendship, and love for others.

Now, being a believer, I do think Christmas is about these things - because of Jesus. But I wondered if non believers shared the hopes about Christmas being a time for forgiveness and love? We did have a sense around the Millennium of trying for a united and peaceful time. That seems to have been largely abandoned.


I would like to think that the time for forgiveness and love is any time at all, but that's a counsel of perfection and in the real world it doesn't work out that way. If Christmas reminds people that forgiveness, reconciliation, peace and all the other items on the hippy shopping list are important then that's no bad thing. It ought to be like that year-round of course, but if the few weeks leading up to Christmas pulls people up and makes them consider these things and reflect upon them where they might not otherwise, then that has to be a bonus. If there was a sense around the millennium of aspiring toward peace and unity and if that has withered on the vine, I should say that subsequent events - 9/11; various wars that limp along for years with no real movement much less conclusion in sight; a years-long global recession - have rained on that parade, sadly. Times of real danger and real hardship do pull nations/societies together, but the last time that that happened here to any great extent and for any length of time was the Second World War, when there was a common enemy and a common purpose. Nowadays there's no common enemy and no common purpose.

Quote:
Thoughts? (Apart from "Lexi's opened the whisky....")

What's new?  

By the way, I reckon you should make this Lexi's Christmas Message thing a regular fixture every year, Lex. (Incidentally, this coming August will see the fifth anniversary of NGLReturns - just saying). It knocks the Queen's wooden effort into a cocked hat for sure  
bnabernard

Is anybody still in contact with Angel who started the original ngl?

bernard (hug)
Ketty

bnabernard wrote:
Is anybody still in contact with Angel who started the original ngl?

bernard (hug)


Sorry Bernie, unable to help.
cymrudynnion

Re: Christmas Message

Shaker wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I'm curious.


Said that for years

Quote:
Those who do not believe - do you think Christmas is simply a season of commerciality? Or do you think there is a deeper message (excluding religion)?

Christmas clearly is a season of commerciality and it does nobody any good to complain about something that isn't going to change, ever. We've not yet achieved Mr Marx's communistic paradise so we still live in a commercialised filthy capitalist pig world, like it or not and inevitably Christmas isn't going to escape that. But it's not just that: it's a public holiday and it's importance to non-religious people is as a time of feasting, gift-giving and receiving and for spending with family and friends - if you want it to be.

Quote:
This evening I have sat down to watch "The Grinch" with my kids. Its a bit of a family favourite.

There is, of course, a message, within the film. That Christmas isn't about commerciality and presents, but about family, friendship, and love for others.

Now, being a believer, I do think Christmas is about these things - because of Jesus. But I wondered if non believers shared the hopes about Christmas being a time for forgiveness and love? We did have a sense around the Millennium of trying for a united and peaceful time. That seems to have been largely abandoned.


I would like to think that the time for forgiveness and love is any time at all, but that's a counsel of perfection and in the real world it doesn't work out that way. If Christmas reminds people that forgiveness, reconciliation, peace and all the other items on the hippy shopping list are important then that's no bad thing. It ought to be like that year-round of course, but if the few weeks leading up to Christmas pulls people up and makes them consider these things and reflect upon them where they might not otherwise, then that has to be a bonus. If there was a sense around the millennium of aspiring toward peace and unity and if that has withered on the vine, I should say that subsequent events - 9/11; various wars that limp along for years with no real movement much less conclusion in sight; a years-long global recession - have rained on that parade, sadly. Times of real danger and real hardship do pull nations/societies together, but the last time that that happened here to any great extent and for any length of time was the Second World War, when there was a common enemy and a common purpose. Nowadays there's no common enemy and no common purpose.

Quote:
Thoughts? (Apart from "Lexi's opened the whisky....")

What's new?  

By the way, I reckon you should make this Lexi's Christmas Message thing a regular fixture every year, Lex. (Incidentally, this coming August will see the fifth anniversary of NGLReturns - just saying). It knocks the Queen's wooden effort into a cocked hat for sure  
Shaker from the parts of your post i could comprehend I would agree with you.
I would accept slowely Christmas is becomming commercialised even though I for one would fight that all the way. It is unfortunately similar for other Christian Fetivals. I have almost no problem with this so long as the Secularists keep the Bank Holidays as they are and for everyone and anyone who claims to have or belong to the Christian Faith they retain the Right not to work on designated Christian Festivals lets see where we go
SusanDoris

Of course Christmas is a commercial 'opportunity', and seems to be so in a very large part of the world these days. One could be cynical about this, but on the other hand, if buying and selling didn't happen, the world would be in a quandary!

I consider I am very lucky because I spend the few days with my younger son and family. Not a religious thought in sight, but they are all thoroughly well educated and well adjusted atheists. They live near a Cathedral and appreciate its and the CofE's place in our way of life. We all enjoy some shopping, wrapping and sharing the presentgiving and traditional turkey lunch.

I must say I wish Humanism had a book of songs, with good, rousing tunes and words!! I still know most of the words to carols etc, but my mind knows they're non-sense and I really have to suspend disbelief to sing-a-long occasionally. :)


Christmas and New Year week are in some ways like a kind of hiatus, or limbo, between everyday life before and after. I try to arrange to do several things in January, otherwise it's so easy to find yourself in March, with a sixth of the year gone by, and you've done nothing!!

Our annual tap dance group's lunch on 17th anyway.
cyberman

SusanDoris wrote:
I still know most of the words to carols etc, but my mind knows they're non-sense


'Believes', I think; not 'knows'.
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
SusanDoris wrote:
I still know most of the words to carols etc, but my mind knows they're non-sense


'Believes', I think; not 'knows'.


Susan didn't specify exactly which carols she had in mind, but it's perfectly possible to know rather than to believe that something is non-sense - colourless green ideas sleep furiously (Chomsky's famous example) is perfectly grammatical English, for instance, but is nonsense.

       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum