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JMC

Desert Wisdom



          The Evergetinos - A Spiritual Goldmine from the Elders of the Desert


The Evergetinos is a source of inspiration, spiritual guidance, and insight into the lives of men and women who, during the first few centuries of Christianity, attained to the highest ideals of the spiritual life. In the spiritual battleground of the Egyptian deserts, these seekers after salvation, enlightenment, and union with Christ brought into sharp focus the teachings of the Apostles and the message of Holy Writ in their daily lives and activities.

The stern, the loving, “fools for Christ”—all of the exemplars of Christian Sainthood, the many inhabitants of the many mansions above, are to be found in the rich and profitable lives portrayed in this collection. Also to be found are perfect models for every Christian who wishes sincerely to imitate those who have walked the path towards moral and spiritual perfection.

This thread gives a small selection of these spiritual lives, sayings and anecdotes.


A Prayer from the Desert
  ------------------------
     
 Lord  Jesus Christ, whose will all things obey:
pardon  what I have done  and grant that I, a sinner,  may sin no more.
Lord, I believe that  though  I do not  deserve it, you can cleanse me from  all my sins.
Lord,  I know  that  man looks  upon  the face, but  you see the heart.  
Send your spirit into  my  inmost  being,  to  take possession of my soul and body.  
Without you  I  cannot   be  saved; with  you  to protect  me, I  long  for your salvation.
And  now   I ask you  for your salvation.
And now  I ask you for wisdom:
Deign of your  great goodness  to  help and defend me.  
Guide my heart, almighty God, that I may remember your presence day and night.

 ++ Amen ++
JMC



Abba Anthony said: "The time is coming when people will be seized by manias and will behave like madmen. And if they see anyone acting reasonably, they will rise up against him saying: 'You are insane.' And they will be correct to say this, for he will not be like them."

~~~

Several brothers went to Abba Anthony to relate to him certain visions which they beheld and to ascertain from him whether the visions were true or of demonic origin. They had along with them a small donkey which died on the way. Just as they reached Abba Anthony, he, expecting them, said: “How did the little donkey die on the road?”

“How did you know this, Abba?” they said to him.

“The demons revealed it to me.”

And they answered him: “It is for this reason that we came to see you, for fear of being deceived, since we see visions and many times they come true.”

Thus, with the foregoing example of the donkey, the elder made it known to them that even though their visions came true, they were given with the intent to deceive.

~~~

Abba Anthony received a letter from emperor Constantine to visit him in Constantinople. He wondered if he should go and asked Abba Paul who said:

“If you go, you will be called Anthony, but if you stay here, you will be called Abba Anthony. “  

~~~
JMC

A hunter in the desert saw Abba Anthony enjoying himself with the brethren and was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brethren, the old man said to him, "Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it." So he did. The old man then said, "Shoot another," and he did so. Then the old man said, "Shoot yet again," and the hunter replied, "If I bend my bow so much I will break it."

Then the old man said to him, "It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brethren beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs." When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by compunction and, greatly edified by the old man, he went away. As for the brethren, they went home strengthened.
JMC

Loquacity mostly comes from a certain vainglory, which makes us think that we know a great deal and imagine our opinion on the subject of conversation to be the most satisfactory of all. So we experience an irresistible urge to speak out and in a stream of words, with many repetitions, to impress the same opinion in the hearts of others, thus foisting ourselves upon them as unbidden teachers and sometimes even dreaming of making pupils of men, who understand the subject much better than the teacher.


From the Unseen Warfare
JMC

Never look down on anyone. You do not know whether the Spirit of God prefers to dwell in you or in them.

- Sayings of the Desert Fathers.

+

You must not wage your Christian struggle with sermons and arguments, but with true secret love. When we argue, others react. When we love people, they are moved and we win them over. When we love, we think that we offer something to others, but in reality we are the first to benefit.

- Elder Porphyry Bairaktaris
Rose

Hi JMC

I was looking up Wisdom of the desert and came across this one

Quote:

A story of the abbot John the Short: how he fell into the sin of presumption through lack of discretion, and afterwards was saved.

They tell this story about the abbot John the Short. Once he said to one of the brethren who was his senior, "I wish to be as the angels are, free from all care, doing no work, but ceaselessly praising and praying to God." Then casting off his raiment, he departed into the wilderness. After a week had passed, he returned to his brother and knocked at the door of his cell. Before he opened to him, the brother asked, "Who art thou?' John replied, "I am John." Then the brother answered him and said, "Not so, for John has become an angel, and no longer has intercourse with men." He, however, continued knocking, and crying out, "Indeed, I am he." The other, however, would not open the door, but left him suffering there. At last he opened the door and admitted John, saying to him, "If you are a man, need is for you to work that you may live. If you are an angel, why do you seek entrance to my cell?" John then, being truly penitent, replied, "Pardon me, O brother, for I have grievously sinned."
http://www3.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/wd.htm





It is taken from a book on Desert Wisdom which you might find interesting!


Quote:

THIS little book is neither a critical examination of the earlier egyptian monastic literature nor an historical account of the movement. It is nothing more than an attempt to appreciate the religious spirit of the first Christian monks. I do not know of any other similar attempt, though an exceedingly interesting study of the hermit life will be found in E. Lucius' Das Mönchische Leben des vierten und fünften Jahrhunderts in der Beleuchtung seiner Vertreter und Gönnor.
The collection of stories and sayings which I have translated, sometimes very freely, must be regarded merely as an anthology culled from the "meadows" of the literature of the desert life. There is much more which is worthy of a place in our devotional literature, and which, I hope, may in, the future be arranged and translated by men more fitted for the task than I am. I acknowledge gratefully the assistance I have received from two friends -- Miss Bloxham and the Rev. C. S. Collins -- whose sympathy with things that are high and holy has been a constant help to me in my work.

I have further to acknowledge the very great kindness of Father Andrew, S.D.C., who designed the drawings which both adorn this volume and interpret the spirit of the hermits' teaching.

http://www3.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/wd.htm




I've not come across this before, so was quite interested.

Julie
Rose

Quote:


How the injuries done to us by evil men are means whereby we may attain perfection.

There was once a monk who observed this rule of life. The more anyone injured or insulted him, the more eagerly he sought that man's company. This he did because, as he was wont to say, "Those whose company I seek are they who afford me the opportunity of perfection. They who speak well of us and bless us set our paths about with stumbling-blocks. It is they who deceive us."





Julie
Rose

Quote:


IX
How a certain elder shrank from being praised, and rejoiced when he was despised.

A certain old man dwelt in the lower part of the desert, at peace, in a cave. A religious man from a neighbouring village used to bring him what he wanted. It happened that this man's son fell sick. With many prayers he besought the old man to come to his house and pray for the child. At length he prevailed with him, and running home, cried out, "Prepare for the coming of the hermit." When the people of the village knew that he was coming they went out with torches to welcome him as if he had been some prince or governor. The hermit, as soon as he perceived how they meant to greet him, stood upon the river-bank, and taking off his clothes, went naked into the water. When the man who was accustonied to minister to him saw this he was greatly ashamed, and said to the villagers, "Return to your homes, for our hermit has lost his senses." Then going to the old man, he said, "My father, why have you done this? All those who saw you are saying, 'That old man is nothing better than a fool.'" The hermit replied to him, "That is the very thing I wished to hear."


X
JMC

Thank you for your posts, Julie. I had heard some of those stories before, but had never heard of that particular collection. There are quite a few anthologies of the desert fathers out there now, but I think at the time that book was published not many of them would have been accessible to the Western world. It's only in the past 50 years or so that modern translations have been done.

The introduction used the word "meadows" and reminded me of the book "The Spiritual Meadow, which is a 7th century anthology of stories and sayings complied by John Moschos (Moschos just means "the monk"). I'm sure some of the stories in there are in the online book you've found.

There is also this online collection of "sayings from the desert fathers". Some of the collected stories/sayings are modern, which just goes to emphasize that the tradition that produced these pieces of wisdom is a living tradition; a way of life that is still around and able to benefit us all.

I had made a thread like this on another forum, but unfortunately it was deleted  
JMC

A monk whom another brother had wronged came to see Abba Sisoes and said to him, “My brother has hurt me and I want to avenge myself.”

The old man pleaded with him saying, “No, my child, leave vengeance to God.”

He said to him, “I shall not rest until I have avenged myself.”

The old man said, “Brother, let us pray.”

Then the old man stood up and said, “God, we no longer need you to care for us, since we do justice for ourselves.”

Hearing these words, the brothers fell at the old man’s feet, saying, “I will no longer seek justice from my brother; forgive me, abba.”
JMC

The first step toward freedom from anger is to keep the lips silent when the heart is stirred; the next, to keep thoughts silent when the soul is upset; the last, to be totally calm when unclean winds are blowing.
- St. John Climacus
bnabernard

JMC wrote:
The first step toward freedom from anger is to keep the lips silent when the heart is stirred; the next, to keep thoughts silent when the soul is upset; the last, to be totally calm when unclean winds are blowing.
- St. John Climacus


And keep taking the blood pressure tablets

bernard (hug)
JMC


"Only he who does not want to pray will not find time for prayer."

- St. Innocent of Alaska


"Someone who bears a grudge while he prays is like a person who sows in the sea and expects to reap a harvest."
—St. Isaac The Syrian
bnabernard

A truthful man will only tell a lie if he believes it is the truth.


bernard  (hug)
JMC

A disciple told his elder about a man who saw visions of angels.
"It does not surprise me that a man sees angels," replied the elder. "But I would marvel at a person who saw his own sins"

(from the Paterikon; quoted in "Christ in our midst - Letters from a Russian monk", by Fr John)
JMC

Do not wish to follow Jesus only when He goes to Tabor, but to follow Him also when He goes to Golgotha; do not wish only to perceive within yourself the divine light, and spiritual joys and sweetnesses, but also darknesses and sorrows and bitter draughts which the soul tastes from the temptations of demons within and without.

-Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain
bnabernard

Yes we should take note of the dark times, like when he lost his rag with the traders in the temple area.

bernard (hug)
JMC

"For someone to teach another, he must be healthy in his soul and free of passions," says Abba Poimen. "There is no use in building the house of another, your own being destroyed."

+++

A desert elder set off for the nearest village to sell his baskets. On the road that he was going down, the devil found him and, out of the intense malice he had toward the elder, snatched the baskets from his hands and disappeared. The elder, without being at all upset, raised his eyes to heaven and said, "I thank you, my God, that you have relieved me of my burden and the trouble of going down to the village." Then the devil, not suffering the calmness of the hermit, threw the baskets in his face, shouting: "Take them back, old man."

The monk gathered them up again and continued on his way to the village.

+++

Saint Athanasios, when he found himself on the patriarchal throne of Alexandria, called Abba Pambo to go to the city on an ecclesiastical matter. The first person that the holy man met, on passing through the walls of the large city, was a woman dressed up so as to ensnare her victims. Seeing her, the elder became tearful.

"Why are you crying, Father?" the brother who was accompanying him asked.

"For two reasons," the elder answered, sighing. "First of all, for the loss of her soul, and then because I do not take as much care to please my Lord as she does to please licentious men."
JMC

On death

Prepare your heart for your departure. If you are wise, you will expect it every hour. Each day say to yourself: "See, the messanger is who comes to fetch me is already at the door. Why am I sitting idle? I must depart forever. I cannot come back again."
Go to sleep with these thoughts every night, and reflect on them throughout the day. And when the time of departure comes, go joyfully to meet it, saying: "Come in peace. I knew you would come, and I have not neglected anything that could help me on the journey."

- St. Isaac of Syria
Ketty

bnabernard wrote:
Yes we should take note of the dark times, like when he lost his rag with the traders in the temple area.


I don't think Righteous Anger is dark - it comes from everything holy.
JMC

Ketty wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Yes we should take note of the dark times, like when he lost his rag with the traders in the temple area.


I don't think Righteous Anger is dark - it comes from everything holy.


I also don't think Jesus "lost his rag". Making a whip of chords is not something that is done on the spur of the moment. It was a deliberate and premeditated act.
Ketty

JMC wrote:
Prepare your heart for your departure. If you are wise, you will expect it every hour.


I don't know about 'expect death' every hour, but we know that nothing is more certain than our departure from this life.  I think maybe more we should live in hope that it's this hour that the Lord returns again.  Christians especially, but we all should live our lives in the knowledge that today could be the day.  Today could be the day we account for our lives and what we've done with the name of the Messiah.  It's wise indeed to keep short accounts and to be prepared.
Ketty

JMC wrote:

I also don't think Jesus "lost his rag". Making a whip of chords is not something that is done on the spur of the moment. It was a deliberate and premeditated act.


Indeed.  'Losing the rag' is something spontaneous and therefore often uncontrolled and a lashing out.  Christ was very much controlled and appropriate in the expression of His righteous anger.
JMC

Ketty wrote:
JMC wrote:
Prepare your heart for your departure. If you are wise, you will expect it every hour. Each day say to yourself: "See, the messanger is who comes to fetch me is already at the door. Why am I sitting idle? I must depart forever. I cannot come back again."
Go to sleep with these thoughts every night, and reflect on them throughout the day. And when the time of departure comes, go joyfully to meet it, saying: "Come in peace. I knew you would come, and I have not neglected anything that could help me on the journey."

- St. Isaac of Syria


I don't know about 'expect death' every hour, but we know that nothing is more certain than our departure from this life.  I think maybe more we should live in hope that it's this hour that the Lord returns again.  Christians especially, but we all should live our lives in the knowledge that today could be the day.  Today could be the day we account for our lives and what we've done with the name of the Messiah.  It's wise indeed to keep short accounts and to be prepared.


Yes, I believe that is what the quote is saying too.
bnabernard

In my part of the world rightious anger equals losing your rag, it's what people in the right do when people are in the wrong.
But there you go one persons junk is another mans treasure, and linguistics, well there's the rub when it comes to understanding and why there's so much arguments about who meant what in translation and why it is neccessary to have the mind set of the one that is trying to be understood.
Anger does not have to be uncontrolled even if it is spontanious, it depends on the conditioning of the mind that weighs the situation and the best way to effect a solution, in a moment it becomes calculated due to the efficiency of the mind.

Imo

bernard (hug)
JMC

When the time came for the death of St. Macarius, the Cherubim who was his guardian angel, accompanied by a multitude of the heavenly host, came for his soul. With the ranks of angels there also descended choirs of apostles, prophets, martyrs, hierarchs, monks and righteous ones.

The demons disposed themselves in ranks and crowds in order to behold the passage of the God-bearing soul. It began to ascend, visible to those monks who were at his deathbed. Standing far from it, the dark spirits shouted: ‘O Macarius, what glory you have been vouchsafed!’ The humble man answered them: ‘No! I still fear, because I do not know whether I have done anything good.’ Meanwhile he swiftly ascended to heaven. Even higher, the aerial powers again cried out: ‘Just so! You have escaped us, Macarius.’ ‘No,’ he replied, ‘I still need to flee.’ When he already had come to the gates of heaven, lamenting out of malice and envy, they cried out: ‘Just so! You did escape us, Macarius!’ He replied: ‘Guarded by the power of Christ, I have escaped your nets!’
bnabernard

I realy can't understand why there are so many athiest arround.

bernard (hug)
Leonard James

bnabernard wrote:
I realy can't understand why there are so many athiest arround.

bernard (hug)


It's because humanity is slowly shaking off the numbing effects of the cultural/religious nonsense to which it has been subjected for thousands of years.

But it's not an easy or rapid task.
JMC

Leonard James wrote:

But it's not an easy or rapid task.


But you have contributed to this as you have boldly asserted (particularly in swaying "gullible people"). Any evidence yet to back up this claim?
Leonard James

JMC wrote:
Leonard James wrote:

But it's not an easy or rapid task.


But you have contributed to this as you have boldly asserted (particularly in swaying "gullible people"). Any evidence yet to back up this claim?


No, of course not ... any more than you have for some of the things that you assert.
bnabernard

Herald the witnesses to this Len sounds like a pot party Is it JMC or LSD

When the time came for the death of St. Macarius, the Cherubim who was his guardian angel, accompanied by a multitude of the heavenly host, came for his soul. With the ranks of angels there also descended choirs of apostles, prophets, martyrs, hierarchs, monks and righteous ones.

The demons disposed themselves in ranks and crowds in order to behold the passage of the God-bearing soul. It began to ascend, visible to those monks who were at his deathbed. Standing far from it, the dark spirits shouted: ‘O Macarius, what glory you have been vouchsafed!’ The humble man answered them: ‘No! I still fear, because I do not know whether I have done anything good.’ Meanwhile he swiftly ascended to heaven. Even higher, the aerial powers again cried out: ‘Just so! You have escaped us, Macarius.’ ‘No,’ he replied, ‘I still need to flee.’ Whe
n he already had come to the gates of heaven, lamenting out of malice and envy, they cried out: ‘Just so! You did escape us, Macarius!’ He replied: ‘Guarded by the power of Christ, I have escaped your nets!’

Give me strength      

bernard (hug)
Leonard James

bnabernard wrote:
Herald the witnesses to this Len sounds like a pot party Is it JMC or LSD

When the time came for the death of St. Macarius, the Cherubim who was his guardian angel, accompanied by a multitude of the heavenly host, came for his soul. With the ranks of angels there also descended choirs of apostles, prophets, martyrs, hierarchs, monks and righteous ones.

The demons disposed themselves in ranks and crowds in order to behold the passage of the God-bearing soul. It began to ascend, visible to those monks who were at his deathbed. Standing far from it, the dark spirits shouted: ‘O Macarius, what glory you have been vouchsafed!’ The humble man answered them: ‘No! I still fear, because I do not know whether I have done anything good.’ Meanwhile he swiftly ascended to heaven. Even higher, the aerial powers again cried out: ‘Just so! You have escaped us, Macarius.’ ‘No,’ he replied, ‘I still need to flee.’ Whe
n he already had come to the gates of heaven, lamenting out of malice and envy, they cried out: ‘Just so! You did escape us, Macarius!’ He replied: ‘Guarded by the power of Christ, I have escaped your nets!’

Give me strength      

bernard (hug)


Blimey! Edgar Alan Poe will have to look to his laurels!
JMC

Leonard James wrote:
JMC wrote:
Leonard James wrote:

But it's not an easy or rapid task.


But you have contributed to this as you have boldly asserted (particularly in swaying "gullible people"). Any evidence yet to back up this claim?


No, of course not ... any more than you have for some of the things that you assert.


Ah, but you are the one who take people to task for not providing physical evidence for their claims, therefore it I'd say there's more burden on you to live up to this standard than I, precisely because it's your standard. And let's remember that the claim I am asking you to "back up" is not a particularly onerous one (if it were true). A post, a name, even an anecdote, would at least be a start.
Leonard James

JMC wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
JMC wrote:
Leonard James wrote:

But it's not an easy or rapid task.


But you have contributed to this as you have boldly asserted (particularly in swaying "gullible people"). Any evidence yet to back up this claim?


No, of course not ... any more than you have for some of the things that you assert.


Ah, but you are the one who take people to task for not providing physical evidence for their claims, therefore it I'd say there's more burden on you to live up to this standard than I, precisely because it's your standard. And let's remember that the claim I am asking you to "back up" is not a particularly onerous one (if it were true). A post, a name, even an anecdote, would at least be a start.


I try to help people who have been misguided by religious/cultural influences. I sincerely hope I have been abler to influence some of the fence-sitters, but nobody has ever come to me and said you converted me, although I am sure that is so. OK?  
JMC

Leonard James wrote:

I try to help people who have been misguided by religious/cultural influences. I sincerely hope I have been abler to influence some of the fence-sitters, but nobody has ever come to me and said you converted me, although I am sure that is so. OK?  


You've just restated what I've said: you are sure that you've influenced some fence-sitters (you originally referred to them as "gullible") despite not having any evidence that you have done that. That would be blind faith, and in this instance it is blind faith in yourself and your ability to guide the "misguided". And yet you continue to criticize people for believing things without evidence.

As you've simply confirmed I was not misrepresenting your hypocritical stance, I will continue to point it out when you interject your criticisms of other posters believing things "without evidence" into various threads.  
Leonard James

JMC wrote:
Leonard James wrote:

I try to help people who have been misguided by religious/cultural influences. I sincerely hope I have been abler to influence some of the fence-sitters, but nobody has ever come to me and said you converted me, although I am sure that is so. OK?  


You've just restated what I've said: you are sure that you've influenced some fence-sitters (you originally referred to them as "gullible") despite not having any evidence that you have done that. That would be blind faith, and in this instance it is blind faith in yourself and your ability to guide the "misguided". And yet you continue to criticize people for believing things without evidence.

As you've simply confirmed I was not misrepresenting your hypocritical stance, I will continue to point it out when you interject your criticisms of other posters believing things "without evidence" into various threads.  


Whatever makes you happy, dearie! But don't expect me to bother answering any more.
JMC

Wear unremarkable clothes,
Eat simple food.
Behave in an unaffected manner.
Don't strut around as if you were important.
Speak from your heart.

-Abba Philemon
JMC

The heart is only a small vessel,
yet dragons are there, and lions;
there are poisonous beasts
and all the treasures of evil;
there are rough and uneven roads;
there are precipices;
but there, too, are God and the angels;
life is there, and the Kingdom;
there, too, is light, and there the apostles,
and heavenly cities and treasures of grace.
All things lie within that little space.

-Macarius the Great
JMC

"Anyone who praises a man to his face," a certain elder said, "delivers him up for the devil to do battle against him."

        +


"Woe to him who is honored beyond his worth," a certain Father says. "The damage his soul suffers is irreparable. Fortunate is the man who is scorned by men, for glory awaits him in heaven."

        +++
JMC

A holy elder, seeing with his own eyes a certain brother fall into deep sin, not only did not judge him, but wept and said: "He fell today; without doubt I will fall tomorrow. But he certainly will repent, whereas for myself, I am not so sure of this."
JMC

It once passed through the mind of Anthony the Great to wonder what measure of holiness he had attained. God, however, Who wished to humble his mind, showed him in a dream one night that a certain cobbler, who had a shop on one of the out-of-the-way streets of Alexandria, was better than he.

As soon as day broke, the Saint took his staff and set out for the city. He wanted to meet this renown cobbler himself and to see his virtues. With great difficulty, he found his shop, went inside, sat down beside him on his bench, and began to ask about his life.

The simple man, who could not figure out who this old monk who came so suddenly to interrogate him was, answered him ever so slowly and calmly, without taking his eyes from the shoe that he was mending.

"I do not know, Abba, if I have ever done any good. Every morning I get up and do my prayers and then I begin my work. However, I first say to myself that all the people in this city, from the very least to the very greatest, will be saved, and only I will be condemned for my many sins. And in the evening when I lie down, again I think about the same thing."

The Saint stood up in wonderment, embraced the cobbler, kissed him, and said to him with emotion: "You, my brother, like a good merchant, have easily gained the precious pearl. I have grown old in the desert, toiling and sweating, but I have not attained to your humility."
JMC

Do not tell me, "I would be a slanderer only if I lied. I am committing no slander if I tell the truth." This is a grievous error. Speaking evil of others, even if the evil be true, is always a crime… You want to correct your brother? Weep, pray to God, warn him by speaking to his heart, advise and exhort him. This is how St. Paul acted. But backbiting and slander is so sweet, you say. Yes but NOT backbiting is sweeter still. The slanderer created deadly anxiety for himself; he is constantly besieged by suspicion and fear. He repents, but too late; he bites his tongue, but in vain; he trembles, for as his words spread they may cause him great danger and expose those who repeat them to enmities which easily could have been avoided.

Are you here to praise someone and raise him in my esteem? Then gladly will I give ear and savour your conversation. But if you intend to speak ill of someone, let me stop now; I cannot stand filth and stench. What have I to gain by knowing that someone is evil? Would I not be losing something instead? Talk to him yourself, and let us mind only our business.

- St. John Chrysostom
JMC

"What wretches we are," lamented one elder. "We are ashamed to commit some evil act before men, but we are not afraid or ashamed to act impiously and to sin before God, who knows all of the hidden things of our hearts."
JMC

The man who cries out against evil men but does not pray for them will never know the grace of God.

– St. Silouan the Athonite
JMC

"The saints are like various trees, each bearing different fruit, but watered from the same source. The practices of one saint differ from those of another, but the same Spirit works in them."
JMC

Abba Doulas, the disciple of Abba Bessarion said, "One day when we were walking beside the sea I was thirsty and I said to Abba Bessarion, "Father, I am very thirsty." He said a prayer and said to me, "Drink some of the sea water." The water proved sweet when I drank some. I even poured some into a leather bottle for fear of being thirsty later on. Seeing this, the old man asked me why I was taking some. I said to him, "Forgive me, it is for fear of being thirsty later on." Then the old man said, "God is here, God is everywhere." "
JMC

Love humility and it will shield you from your sins.
-Abba Isaiah
JMC

The proud man fears obloquy, while the humble man cares nothing. He who has acquired Christ-like humility will ever upbraid Himself, and it rejoices him to be abused, and grieves him to be acclaimed. But this humility is still only elementary - when the soul comes to know the Lord in the Holy Spirit, how humble and meek He is, she sees herself as the worst of all sinners, and is happy to sit in shabby raiment in the ashes like Job, while she beholds other men in the Holy Spirit shining in the likeness of Christ.

St Silouan the Athonite
JamesJah

John 14:6
1Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Farmer Geddon

JMC wrote:
Ketty wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Yes we should take note of the dark times, like when he lost his rag with the traders in the temple area.


I don't think Righteous Anger is dark - it comes from everything holy.


I also don't think Jesus "lost his rag". Making a whip of chords is not something that is done on the spur of the moment. It was a deliberate and premeditated act.


Making a what?

Can't find that in any of the gospel that matters...
JMC

Some old men went to Abba Poemen and asked,

"If we see brothers sleeping during the common prayer, should we wake them?"

Abba Poemen answered,
"If I see my brother sleeping, I put his head on my knees
and let him rest."
Then one old man spoke up,
"And how do you explain yourself before God?"
Abba Poemen replied, "I say to God: You have said, 'First take the beam out of your own eye and then you will be able to remove the splinter from the eye of your brother.' "
JamesJah

Farmer Geddon wrote:
JMC wrote:
Ketty wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Yes we should take note of the dark times, like when he lost his rag with the traders in the temple area.


I don't think Righteous Anger is dark - it comes from everything holy.


I also don't think Jesus "lost his rag". Making a whip of chords is not something that is done on the spur of the moment. It was a deliberate and premeditated act.


Making a what?

Can't find that in any of the gospel that matters...

There is not a cockney translation, so Bernie has made his own by the looks of things????

Have not most people now days tried to have a bible they feel comfortable with rather than try to discover spiritual truths?
Farmer Geddon

Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK?

No.

Making a "whip of chords"

Can't find that in any of the gospel that matters...
JMC

Your question merely advertises your personal opinion of the Gospel of John, where "whip of chords" appears (John 2:15). Now that you've done that, someone has acknowledged your opinion, and we've all got over the shock of a non-Christian not accepting part of the Bible, we can carry on without off-topic interruptions. Thanks.
bnabernard

Oh well, only the Father/God is good.

Bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Do you mean Father God of all the little gods Bernie???
JMC

If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies.
Through this action God will hear everything that he asks.

-Abba Zeno
JamesJah

Matthew 6:5-15
when you pray, do not act like the hypocrites, for they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the main streets to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you.

When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him.

“You must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth. 11 Give us today our bread for this day;

 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. and do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.’


For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 whereas if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

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