Archive for nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Nglreturns is a forum to discuss religion, philosophy, ethics etc...

NGLReturns Daily Quiz - Play here!
 



       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Christian chat
JamesJah

Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Is the Father of Jesus showing people what he thinks of Christmas?

Or is it my imagination?


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .
cyberman

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

JamesJah wrote:
Is the Father of Jesus showing people what he thinks of Christmas?

Or is it my imagination?


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


It is your imagination, yes.
Jim

What worship does God require, James?
You have read Micah, haven't you?
Derek

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

JamesJah wrote:
Is the Father of Jesus showing people what he thinks of Christmas?

Or is it my imagination?


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


Why Christmas? The verse is very interesting, especially when it says "The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands" what denominations does not believe that we have to repent? I know it is talking about the last days and the state in which men will become, however, how have you connected it with Christmas?
gone

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

JamesJah wrote:
Is the Father of Jesus showing people what he thinks of Christmas?

Or is it my imagination?


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


Your imagination!
Jim

God obviously changed His mind, James...
THe WTBTS was perfectly happy with Christmas for the first five decades or so of its' existance.
Now, either God was wrong - and I doubt this - or the WTBTS was not being 'a faithful and discreet slave' but was, in fact, abandoning God...


Er.......
Jim

Citations from your own religion's endorsement of Christmas, Birthdays, flags....
Thanks for reminding me to post it again for you, James.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php


Merry Christmas!
Derek

Jim wrote:
Citations from your own religion's endorsement of Christmas, Birthdays, flags....
Thanks for reminding me to post it again for you, James.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php


Merry Christmas!


Oh dear, you are a Jehovah Witness. That makes you an enemy to the bornos. Who will undoubtedly see you as rich pickings for their hostilities. Be assured that you will not recieve such hostile judgement from me. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. Unfortunately,  bornos think they have all the answers and that makes you wrong.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
What worship does God require, James?
You have read Micah, haven't you?


James 1:26, 27
If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man’s form of worship is futile. The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

What is keeping one self without spot from the world?
Jim

What is keeping one from answering points?
JamesJah

Ralph2 wrote:
Jim wrote:
Citations from your own religion's endorsement of Christmas, Birthdays, flags....
Thanks for reminding me to post it again for you, James.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php


Merry Christmas!


Oh dear, you are a Jehovah Witness. That makes you an enemy to the bornos. Who will undoubtedly see you as rich pickings for their hostilities. Be assured that you will not recieve such hostile judgement from me. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. Unfortunately,  bornos think they have all the answers and that makes you wrong.


As JW's only teach scripture it must be quite difficult for them and any one who also wishes to teach his own ideas about the Almighty?

If any one understands what this scripture means he can not really complain about the Almighty when he renders judgement upon mankind in this time of the end now can he?

Matthew 7:12
.All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.

Matthew 7:1, 2
Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you.

So how do we clock up to this personal scripture?
Jim

Beth Sarin, James, Beth Sarin.....
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Jim wrote:
Citations from your own religion's endorsement of Christmas, Birthdays, flags....
Thanks for reminding me to post it again for you, James.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php


Merry Christmas!


Oh dear, you are a Jehovah Witness. That makes you an enemy to the bornos. Who will undoubtedly see you as rich pickings for their hostilities. Be assured that you will not recieve such hostile judgement from me. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. Unfortunately,  bornos think they have all the answers and that makes you wrong.


As JW's only teach scripture it must be quite difficult for them and any one who also wishes to teach his own ideas about the Almighty?

If any one understands what this scripture means he can not really complain about the Almighty when he renders judgement upon mankind in this time of the end now can he?

Matthew 7:12
.All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.

Matthew 7:1, 2
Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you.

So how do we clock up to this personal scripture?


To only teach scripture is how it should be done. To add scripture is sacrilege. I know what the scriptures means and know that mankind will reap what they have sown, however, how have you connected the scripture to Christmas?

The scripture you post are very apt and very true. I have to agree, however, bornos believe it their right to judge and that judgement renders the conclusion to them that you we wrong. I do not know if you are wrong or I am right I just do what I feel to be right and what makes me feel comfortable in my skin. If I reach the judgement bar being totally wrong then I will plead my case and take my punishment and blame no one. -

Ketty

JamesJah wrote:


Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

James 1:26, 27. . .

What is keeping one self without spot from the world?



A warning against hypocrisy

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:  ‘The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.  So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.  But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach.   They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.'

Lord God Almighty only wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth and with all our mind, all our strength, all our heart, all our soul.  Everything else is as filthy rags.  Isaiah 64:6
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


Do you have difficulty in understanding what that scripture has to say to us?
gone

JWs have a weird interpretation of the Bible. Nowhere does it ban blood transfusions, for a start!
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


Do you have difficulty in understanding what that scripture has to say to us?


No James but you appear to have difficulty in answering a very simple question do you not.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


Do you have difficulty in understanding what that scripture has to say to us?


No James but you appear to have difficulty in answering a very simple question do you not.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


I am not a linguist I just put up with what others do and argue over, straining out the gnat is ok, if your the one having to drink the wine, if a fly gets in my drink I chuck the lot away.
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


Do you have difficulty in understanding what that scripture has to say to us?


No James but you appear to have difficulty in answering a very simple question do you not.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


I am not a linguist I just put up with what others do and argue over, straining out the gnat is ok, if your the one having to drink the wine, if a fly gets in my drink I chuck the lot away.


So you are now throwing away the above passage of scripture rather than answer the question?

Regards

LeClerc
Jim

Come off it, LeClerc!
Our James is a past master at ignoring questions which demand a straight answer...'cos straight answers conflict with Brooklyn;s commands!
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation 9:20, 21
The rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;  and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their fornication nor of their thefts. . .


The type of worship those faithful to YHWH would not give to the image of gold.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


Do you have difficulty in understanding what that scripture has to say to us?


No James but you appear to have difficulty in answering a very simple question do you not.

Daniel 3 NWT
4And the herald was crying out loudly: “To YOU it is being said, O peoples, national groups and languages,5that at the time that YOU hear the sound of the horn, the pipe, the zither, the triangular harp, the stringed instrument, the bagpipe and all sorts of musical instruments, YOU fall down and worship the image of gold that Nebuchadnez′zar the king has set up.6And whoever does not fall down and worship will at the same moment be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Your NWT uses the English word worship in the above passage do you agree with it, yes or no ?

Regards

LeClerc


I am not a linguist I just put up with what others do and argue over, straining out the gnat is ok, if your the one having to drink the wine, if a fly gets in my drink I chuck the lot away.


So you are now throwing away the above passage of scripture rather than answer the question?

Regards

LeClerc


There is more to the Almighties purpose for mankind than eating and drinking or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.

2 Corinthians 6:1, 2
Working together with him, we also entreat you not to accept the undeserved kindness of God and miss its purpose. For he says: “In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation I helped you.”

Look! Now is the especially acceptable time. Look! Now is the day of salvation.
bnabernard

I see some queries regarding christmass, no doubt there's some thought to the giving and receiving of presents.
The naughty or nice list springs to mind,
Who got a present from Santa, and who had to get one from a friend,
Ah, who's on the naughty list??
I smell a rat of deception at work  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc


Mainly because it has removed spurious scriptures that have been distorting the Christian mind for centuries.

Have you seen there modern English version yet?
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc


Mainly because it has removed spurious scriptures that have been distorting the Christian mind for centuries.

Have you seen there modern English version yet?
Jim

EH?
What 'spurious Scriptures?
And if the NW(mis)T is so axccurate, why dioes it stick 'Jehovah' ( a bastardised form of a Hevbrew word) into a Greek New Testament?
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc


Mainly because it has removed spurious scriptures that have been distorting the Christian mind for centuries.

Have you seen there modern English version yet?


So you agree with the 2013 version of Daniel 3,

Daniel 3 NWT 2013
4 The herald loudly proclaimed: “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and language groups,5  that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, bagpipe, and all the other musical instruments, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar has set up.6  Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Turning to the Septuagint

4  καὶ ὁ κῆρυξ ἐβόα ἐν ἰσχύι ὑμῖν λέγεται λαοί φυλαί γλῶσσαι
5  ᾗ ἂν ὥρᾳ ἀκούσητε τῆς φωνῆς τῆς σάλπιγγος σύριγγός τε καὶ κιθάρας σαμβύκης καὶ ψαλτηρίου καὶ συμφωνίας καὶ παντὸς γένους μουσικῶν πίπτοντες προσκυνεῖτε τῇ εἰκόνι τῇ χρυσῇ ᾗ ἔστησεν Ναβουχοδονοσορ ὁ βασιλεύς
6  καὶ ὃς ἂν μὴ πεσὼν προσκυνήσῃ αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ἐμβληθήσεται εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρὸς τὴν καιομένην

The NWT translators have translated the Greek word I have highlighted as worship.

Do you agree with this translation James ?

Regards

LeClerc
Jim

I think, James, that you really need to look at
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

And remove your rose tinted glasses.
This site clearly shows the disgusting methods your sect has used in creating false endorsements for what, in essence, is probably the worst so-called translation of God's Word into English that SERIOUS, accredited Bible scholars, linguists and translators have ever come across. To claim it is accurate is stretching the bounds of credulity beyond breaking point.
Frankly, the book is a disgusting misrepresentation of Scriptures, unfit for consideration by even first year students of Greek as in any way credible, or useful, in transmitting the Gospel truth.

Do you wish me to point out several of the six hundred corruptions in the so-called translations which make it unfit to be CALLED a Bible?
JamesJah

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

LeClerc wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc


Mainly because it has removed spurious scriptures that have been distorting the Christian mind for centuries.

Have you seen there modern English version yet?


So you agree with the 2013 version of Daniel 3,

Daniel 3 NWT 2013
4 The herald loudly proclaimed: “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and language groups,5  that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, bagpipe, and all the other musical instruments, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar has set up.6  Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Turning to the Septuagint

4  καὶ ὁ κῆρυξ ἐβόα ἐν ἰσχύι ὑμῖν λέγεται λαοί φυλαί γλῶσσαι
5  ᾗ ἂν ὥρᾳ ἀκούσητε τῆς φωνῆς τῆς σάλπιγγος σύριγγός τε καὶ κιθάρας σαμβύκης καὶ ψαλτηρίου καὶ συμφωνίας καὶ παντὸς γένους μουσικῶν πίπτοντες προσκυνεῖτε τῇ εἰκόνι τῇ χρυσῇ ᾗ ἔστησεν Ναβουχοδονοσορ ὁ βασιλεύς
6  καὶ ὃς ἂν μὴ πεσὼν προσκυνήσῃ αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ἐμβληθήσεται εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρὸς τὴν καιομένην

The NWT translators have translated the Greek word I have highlighted as worship.

Do you agree with this translation James ?

Regards

LeClerc


-I do not know if you understand what I have said on this matter, but my personal opinion on the translation of the Greek carries no weight at all you do have to pick the opinion of some one who some linguistic skills on the matter you are having a problem with, I do know that the Almighty God is the only one in the universe and those who claim otherwise do not know him at all.

In heaven there is the highest order coming to the lowest earth people each one with his degree od authority according to what the spirit has granted something any one claiming to believe the trinity can not possibly understand.

1 Corinthians 15:23-25
But each one in his own rank: Christ the first-fruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.  For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.

But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected, it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him,

then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


Do you agree with the translation of this scripture?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
I think, James, that you really need to look at
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

And remove your rose tinted glasses.
This site clearly shows the disgusting methods your sect has used in creating false endorsements for what, in essence, is probably the worst so-called translation of God's Word into English that SERIOUS, accredited Bible scholars, linguists and translators have ever come across. To claim it is accurate is stretching the bounds of credulity beyond breaking point.
Frankly, the book is a disgusting misrepresentation of Scriptures, unfit for consideration by even first year students of Greek as in any way credible, or useful, in transmitting the Gospel truth.

Do you wish me to point out several of the six hundred corruptions in the so-called translations which make it unfit to be CALLED a Bible?


I was brought up on the KJ version of scripture the worst version I came across then was the abbreviated version and the Douay version.

Even though the NWT is in American English it certainly was certainly much more accurate than all the others.

So what is your problem?
Jim

James:
For once I agree with you: the KJV is, by modern standards a poor version.
Given the paucity of mss at the disposal of the translators, it cannot be otherwise.

However, given the scholarship,, talents and abilities of modern translators, combined with a much greater number of early mss at their disposal, modern versions of Scripture are as accurate as the shifting sands of the English language allows.

Where are the talents, qualifications, mss used, translation methodology and revision methodology?
Can you link to them so that I can check for myself how the people behind the NWT managed to make so many, unforgivable errors?
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
James:
For once I agree with you: the KJV is, by modern standards a poor version.
Given the paucity of mss at the disposal of the translators, it cannot be otherwise.

However, given the scholarship,, talents and abilities of modern translators, combined with a much greater number of early mss at their disposal, modern versions of Scripture are as accurate as the shifting sands of the English language allows.

Where are the talents, qualifications, mss used, translation methodology and revision methodology?
Can you link to them so that I can check for myself how the people behind the NWT managed to make so many, unforgivable errors?


One is inclined to lose faith in the HS that is ''supposed'' to be reliable?
Was there failing in this new found truth discovered by the ''christian'' has it all been a fraud to give strength and meaning to what men required?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Bernie:
What has the Holy Spirit's prompting got to do with the either
A - sheer incompetance,
or
B - deliberate mistranslation

of certain texts in the NWT to suit a sect's doctrine?
Deviating from the truth is NOT the work of the "Spirit of Truth".
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Bernie:
What has the Holy Spirit's prompting got to do with the either
A - sheer incompetance,
or
B - deliberate mistranslation

of certain texts in the NWT to suit a sect's doctrine?
Deviating from the truth is NOT the work of the "Spirit of Truth".


Which miss translation and what doctrine?
Jim

I'd suggest you read the link in my previous post.
If I had to list all the faults in that dire volume, I'd wear out my fingers.
Powwow

So Anchorman, you will agree that God has promised that His word would be preserved. I have to believe that the translation you read would be God's preserved words. What translation is that? I myself believe it to be the KJV.

Why Presbyterians use the King James Bible

http://www.lifebpc.com/index.php/...why-we-use-the-king-james-version
Jim

pow wow:
Which Bible do Presbyterians use?
Well, the first Presbyterians preferred the Geneva Bible. The Church of Scotland rejected the KJV of 1611 on the grounds of bias, language and error. It took an edict of Charles II to force the Church to accept the KJV while he was trying to force us to accept government by Bishops with him as the head of the Church.
Dissenting Covenanters reverted to the Geneva (Google 'Killing Time'.)

What do we Presbyterians use today?
Well, there was a survey of the three main Presbyterian denominations (CofS, Free CofS and United Free CofS) in 2008 to discover Scotland's favourite translations used on Sundays;
The results were:

1 NIV 39%
2 NRSV 18%
3 GNB 17%
4 CEV 12%
5 Gaelic Bible 4%
The remaining 10% used KJV, NKJV,NLT and RSV.

Hope that helps.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
pow wow:
Which Bible do Presbyterians use?
Well, the first Presbyterians preferred the Geneva Bible. The Church of Scotland rejected the KJV of 1611 on the grounds of bias, language and error. It took an edict of Charles II to force the Church to accept the KJV while he was trying to force us to accept government by Bishops with him as the head of the Church.
Dissenting Covenanters reverted to the Geneva (Google 'Killing Time'.)

What do we Presbyterians use today?
Well, there was a survey of the three main Presbyterian denominations (CofS, Free CofS and United Free CofS) in 2008 to discover Scotland's favourite translations used on Sundays;
The results were:

1 NIV 39%
2 NRSV 18%
3 GNB 17%
4 CEV 12%
5 Gaelic Bible 4%
The remaining 10% used KJV, NKJV,NLT and RSV.

Hope that helps.


You only quote English translations why is that when most false doctrines where invented in Latin by the Romans?

Most authentic translations had been produced by the Germans, so how many of them have you checked?
Jim

Er.....
Since when was the Gaelic Bible an English translation?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Er.....
Since when was the Gaelic Bible an English translation?


So why do you compare the NWT with other English translations?

Most translations today are bent so as to promote  the false teaching of the trinity, making all those translations can not be trusted now can they?

Unless you are still upholding the Popes version of almighty God.

Which was change by the early church to please the Roman war lord Constantine.



.
LeClerc

Re: Does the Almighty aprove of any rype of worship?

Afternoon James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
 or splitting hairs over the techniques of translating one word.


Then James, why does the WBTS make such a big issue claiming the NWT to be the more accurate translation ??

Regards

LeClerc


Mainly because it has removed spurious scriptures that have been distorting the Christian mind for centuries.

Have you seen there modern English version yet?


So you agree with the 2013 version of Daniel 3,

Daniel 3 NWT 2013
4 The herald loudly proclaimed: “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and language groups,5  that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, zither, triangular harp, stringed instrument, bagpipe, and all the other musical instruments, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar has set up.6  Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into the burning fiery furnace.”

Turning to the Septuagint

4  καὶ ὁ κῆρυξ ἐβόα ἐν ἰσχύι ὑμῖν λέγεται λαοί φυλαί γλῶσσαι
5  ᾗ ἂν ὥρᾳ ἀκούσητε τῆς φωνῆς τῆς σάλπιγγος σύριγγός τε καὶ κιθάρας σαμβύκης καὶ ψαλτηρίου καὶ συμφωνίας καὶ παντὸς γένους μουσικῶν πίπτοντες προσκυνεῖτε τῇ εἰκόνι τῇ χρυσῇ ᾗ ἔστησεν Ναβουχοδονοσορ ὁ βασιλεύς
6  καὶ ὃς ἂν μὴ πεσὼν προσκυνήσῃ αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ἐμβληθήσεται εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρὸς τὴν καιομένην

The NWT translators have translated the Greek word I have highlighted as worship.

Do you agree with this translation James ?

Regards

LeClerc


-I do not know if you understand what I have said on this matter, but my personal opinion on the translation of the Greek carries no weight at all you do have to pick the opinion of some one who some linguistic skills on the matter you are having a problem with, I do know that the Almighty God is the only one in the universe and those who claim otherwise do not know him at all.

In heaven there is the highest order coming to the lowest earth people each one with his degree od authority according to what the spirit has granted something any one claiming to believe the trinity can not possibly understand.

1 Corinthians 15:23-25
But each one in his own rank: Christ the first-fruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.  For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.

But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected, it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him,

then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


Do you agree with the translation of this scripture?


Yes James it is your understanding that is the problem.

Who are your hands subject too James ?

Regards

LeClerc
Jim

The clue, James, is in the word 'tramslation'.
That word is correctly applieed to every version I mentioned above (and I could add another eleven to the list)
It does not apply to the NWT, which is, at best, a pathetic travesty of a third rate student of Greek and a tenth rate student of Hebrew's attempt at a translation, and at worse a mish mash of adulterated propoganda dreamed up by a failed student to suit his failed doctrine.

It is unfitt for consideration as a tool to use when studying Scripture.
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Er.....
Since when was the Gaelic Bible an English translation?


So why do you compare the NWT with other English translations?

Most translations today are bent so as to promote  the false teaching of the trinity, making all those translations can not be trusted now can they?

Unless you are still upholding the Popes version of almighty God.

Which was change by the early church to please the Roman war lord Constantine.



.


 
Jim

Er...Ralph;
Why are you applauding James' post here?
I have made it no secret that, while I regard my Roman Catholic fellow Christians as bbrothers ands sisters in Christ, I have never acknowledgwed thee Pope as anything more than a fellow bbroother in Christ. I have also made it abundantly clear that I firmly reject James; view of post Constantinian Christiianity, favouring a second century version as per the Didache.
Actually, the earliest representation ogf Christ Jesus as God comes from a mid second century graffito, an ostraca from Egypt, depicting a figure in Pharonic regalia, and the inscription "Jesus, Lord and God".
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Er...Ralph;
Why are you applauding James' post here?
I have made it no secret that, while I regard my Roman Catholic fellow Christians as bbrothers ands sisters in Christ, I have never acknowledgwed thee Pope as anything more than a fellow bbroother in Christ. I have also made it abundantly clear that I firmly reject James; view of post Constantinian Christiianity, favouring a second century version as per the Didache.
Actually, the earliest representation ogf Christ Jesus as God comes from a mid second century graffito, an ostraca from Egypt, depicting a figure in Pharonic regalia, and the inscription "Jesus, Lord and God".


I see so you support blashemy from your brothers in christ, after all the pope holds a greater regard for himself, and likewise is encouraged by his own 'brothers'. No doubt some ring kissing is on the cards.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Bernie;
There is no such thing as a perfect church; neither is there such a thing as a perfect person, save one - Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.*
As far as that goes, anyone who acknowledges Christ Jesus as LORD and God is my brother or sister in Christ.

* - God. There is only One God, as per the Shema, but He is Triune in nature and in action.
Derek

Jim wrote:
Er...Ralph;
Why are you applauding James' post here?
I have made it no secret that, while I regard my Roman Catholic fellow Christians as bbrothers ands sisters in Christ, I have never acknowledgwed thee Pope as anything more than a fellow bbroother in Christ. I have also made it abundantly clear that I firmly reject James; view of post Constantinian Christiianity, favouring a second century version as per the Didache.
Actually, the earliest representation ogf Christ Jesus as God comes from a mid second century graffito, an ostraca from Egypt, depicting a figure in Pharonic regalia, and the inscription "Jesus, Lord and God".


Because he dared to say "Most translations today are bent so as to promote  the false teaching of the trinity, making all those translations can not be trusted now can they? " I commend him for saying that knowing the potential for hostility that it might bring, despite the fact that he has a perfect right to believe it, is a certainty, especially from two posters in particular.

It say Jesus, Lord and God and not Jesus, Lord is God. You are interpreting what fits your belief and not what it actually means. For example it could mean three personages. (1) Jesus, (2) Lord and (3) God. It could mean two people, (1) Jesus, Lord and (2) God. It could just be that Jesus is Lord and a God. It does not say Jesus, Lord and God is one as you would have to include the Holy Ghost.

The Trinity is the biggest fallacy in Christendom. it has fooled and pulled away many people from the Christian way of living then any other apostate false doctrine. It is the cause of the Christian religion falling from within and is promoted by the great and abominable church, bornos, who actively bring the power of the scriptures to have no value in the plan of salvation. To make sin a joke and to deceive men in their wickedness to follow lies and deception. It has changed everything that God designed for it to be and now strongly resembles Satan's plan and design. It gives the appearance of godliness but within it is as vile as rancid serpent flesh. Those who worship within its walls are hostile and troublesome and always throw the first hypocritical stone. It will be destroyed, burnt as stubble, when Jesus returns in his glory. All, in my opinion, of course, however, by their fruit shall they be known.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Bernie;
There is no such thing as a perfect church; neither is there such a thing as a perfect person, save one - Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.*
As far as that goes, anyone who acknowledges Christ Jesus as LORD and God is my brother or sister in Christ.

* - God. There is only One God, as per the Shema, but He is Triune in nature and in action.


Well there is an issue regarding God as a person, but then you know how I feel on that score, However in thinking about it then we can still refer to Adam as a perfect man.
The understanding that you put forward that error is acceptable does not, in my understanding hold water, lets face it the followers of Abraham (the Israelites Jews or whatever lable is the fit for the day) saw no reward for their error and in fact rather than assossiate Jesus with the Jews his reference point of perfection was compared outside of Abraham and made towards Melechizedeck.

Having the ''right knowledge'' self acknowledgement seems no more fitting for you than any other market stall plying their goods under the flag of the holy spirit.

You give your validity no strength in your support towards ''brothers'' who blatantly slaughter the message of truth.
bernard (hug)
Derek

Jim wrote:
Bernie;
There is no such thing as a perfect church; neither is there such a thing as a perfect person, save one - Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.*
As far as that goes, anyone who acknowledges Christ Jesus as LORD and God is my brother or sister in Christ.

* - God. There is only One God, as per the Shema, but He is Triune in nature and in action.


Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

Hebrews 12:23

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Jim

Ralph:
John 1:1 - in any accepted translation*

* - The Nwt is not an accepted translation.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Ralph:
John 1:1 - in any accepted translation*

* - The Nwt is not an accepted translation.


And this from a man who accepts the pope as his brother in christ??
I reckon street cred gone down the drain Jim.

bernard (hug)
Derek

Jim wrote:
Ralph:
John 1:1 - in any accepted translation*

* - The Nwt is not an accepted translation.


John 1:1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

2 The same was in the beginning with God

My own experience has shown that this verse is the one most popularly quoted by most Christians in defense of the Trinity. For this reason I shall spend a little more time in its analysis than in the analysis of the other verses.

You just repeat whatever you are told Jim without first analysing what has Been said.

In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?)

Yes, John spoke Greek. John lived and preached in Greek speaking regions of Asia Minor.

"The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"

IN THE BEGINNING GENESIS 1;1 STARTS WITH THE MOMENT OF CREATION AND MOVES TOWARD TO THE CREATION OF HUMANITY JOHN 1;1 STARTS WITH CREATION AND CONTEMPLATES ETERNITY PAST THE FACT THAT THE WORD WAS WITH GOD SUGGESTS A FACE TO FACE RELATIONSHIP IN THE ANCIENT WORLD IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT PERSONS OF EQUAL STATION BE ON THE SAME LEVEL, OR FACE-TO FACE WHEN SITTING ACROSS FROM ONE ANOTHER THUS THE WORD WITH INDICATES A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP BUT ALSO IMPLIES EQUAL STATUS THE WORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF IS AN ACTIVE PERSON IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE FATHER LOOK AT 1 JOHN 1;2 MOREOVER THE WORD WAS GOD THE WORD ORDER IN GREEK SHOWS THAT THE WORD WAS GOD NOT A god THIS IS A STRAIGHTFORWARD DECLARATION OF CHRIST'S DEITY SINCE JOHN USES WORD TO REFER TO JESUS THE WORD WAS OF THE VERY QUALITY OF GOD WHILE STILL RETAINING HIS PERSONAL DISTINCTION FROM THE FATHER

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-1-1/
Jim

Er....What makes you think John did NOT speak Greek?
There is a reasonable chance that most Galilleans had at least a working knowledge of the tongue...after all there were several major Greek speaking towns in the area, and any kind of trade with the citizens would naturally involve using the language.
Also, don't forget that a substantial amount of Jews were Hellenised at this period, and used the Septuagint (Greek translation of the O.T)...witness the fact that there are many quotes in the New Testament which are from the Septuagint (tr c200 BC)

Since John most probably wrote John in either Ephasus or Antioch, both of which were Greek speaking cities, and Koine was the lingua franca of the Eastern Empire at the time, he knew exactly what He was writing,
Remember it was the same author in the same book (ch 8) who quoted Jesus as saying "Before Abraham was, I AM"...and records the stramash that followed.
If John 1:1 were the only verse or text in the Gospel narrative to make such a claim, then, while it would be difficult to sustain, it would still be doctrinally sound..
However, John, and indeed the Synoptics, are peppered with evidence of Jesus' identfication as God Incarnate in both word and action.
Derek

Jim wrote:
Er....What makes you think John did NOT speak Greek?
There is a reasonable chance that most Galilleans had at least a working knowledge of the tongue...after all there were several major Greek speaking towns in the area, and any kind of trade with the citizens would naturally involve using the language.
Also, don't forget that a substantial amount of Jews were Hellenised at this period, and used the Septuagint (Greek translation of the O.T)...witness the fact that there are many quotes in the New Testament which are from the Septuagint (tr c200 BC)

Since John most probably wrote John in either Ephasus or Antioch, both of which were Greek speaking cities, and Koine was the lingua franca of the Eastern Empire at the time, he knew exactly what He was writing,
Remember it was the same author in the same book (ch 8) who quoted Jesus as saying "Before Abraham was, I AM"...and records the stramash that followed.
If John 1:1 were the only verse or text in the Gospel narrative to make such a claim, then, while it would be difficult to sustain, it would still be doctrinally sound..
However, John, and indeed the Synoptics, are peppered with evidence of Jesus' identfication as God Incarnate in both word and action.


You make the scripture fit your belief. When you can produce a scripture that makes it as clear that Jesus is God incarnate, as this one clearly shows that they are three distinct and seperate personages, you will have a serious point to debate. There is simple nothing in scripture that clearly and decisively states that there is a trinity. Nothing, yet it does say that there is a God head, three distinctive individuals acting as one. It is a case of old men interpreting scriptures wrongly.

Matthew 3:16-17

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jim

Hang on a mo, Ralph.
Before we expand beyond John 1:1, are we agreed that the author was, in all probability, very comfortable with Koine Greek?
Before we can go on to examine the actions of Jesus in all four Gospels which demonstrate just who He is, we need to deal with what is the first Johanine tretise on the identitiy of Jesus.
LeClerc

Morning Ralph and Bernie

Ralph2 wrote:
A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"



Then why did John not use the Greek word θεῖος ?

Ralph2 wrote:

You make the scripture fit your belief. When you can produce a scripture that makes it as clear that Jesus is God incarnate,


Lets turn to the 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him,

Ralph, please identify him in the above passage.

bnabernard wrote:

Well there is an issue regarding God as a person,
bernard (hug)



Bernie, can you please define ''person'' because by statute, the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, trustees, trustees in Bankruptcy, or receivers.

Regards

LeClerc
Derek

Jim wrote:
Hang on a mo, Ralph.
Before we expand beyond John 1:1, are we agreed that the author was, in all probability, very comfortable with Koine Greek?
Before we can go on to examine the actions of Jesus in all four Gospels which demonstrate just who He is, we need to deal with what is the first Johanine tretise on the identitiy of Jesus.


Well, the Johnanine treatise really does no favours to the bornos, does it Jim? It brings into question the authenticity of the book of John. But that is not my belief. I do not believe it to be necessary to dissect the process by which the scriptures were translated. I believe that the bible contains what ever God wants it to contain regardless of the accurate translation of every word.

The unauthorised additional text is as follows in red..

1 John 5:7-8

7. For there are three that bear record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth], the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

But what does it mean by three are one? In genesis we read

Genesis 2:24

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Clearly they were not one person but two persons acting as one. That is what the godhead. Is, three distinct individuals acting, in purpose, as one

Quote:
Wesley's Notes for John 1:1

1:1 In the beginning - (Referring to #Gen 1:1|, and Prov 8:23.) When all things began to be made by the Word: in the beginning of heaven and earth, and this whole frame of created beings, the Word existed, without any beginning. He was when all things began to be, whatsoever had a beginning. The Word - So termed #Psa 33:6|, and frequently by the seventy, and in the Chaldee paraphrase. So that St. John did not borrow this expression from Philo, or any heathen writer. He was not yet named Jesus, or Christ. He is the Word whom the Father begat or spoke from eternity; by whom the Father speaking, maketh all things; who speaketh the Father to us. We have, in #John 1:18|, both a real description of the Word, and the reason why he is so called. He is the only begotten Son of the Father, who is in the bosom of the Father, and hath declared him. And the Word was with God - Therefore distinct from God the Father. The word rendered with, denotes a perpetual tendency as it were of the Son to the Father, in unity of essence. He was with God alone; because nothing beside God had then any being. And the Word was God - Supreme, eternal, independent. There was no creature, in respect of which he could be styled God in a relative sense. Therefore he is styled so in the absolute sense. The Godhead of the Messiah being clearly revealed in the Old Testament, (#Jer 23:7|; Hos 1:6; #Psa 23:1|,) the other evangelists aim at this, to prove that Jesus, a true man, was the Messiah. But when, at length, some from hence began to doubt of his Godhead, then St. John expressly asserted it, and wrote in this book as it were a supplement to the Gospels, as in the Revelation to the prophets.


John 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are

1 Corinthians 8:6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Corinthians 10:17

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

1 Corinthians 12:12

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:20

But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Matthew 19: 5-6

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder
Jim

Er....red, or underlines, bold, italics, hebrew or Greek scripts don't work for me. I cannot recognise them.
However, before we get into the eytemology and semiotics of the Gospel (Though, in passing, the majority of scholars,ancient and modern, recognise John 1:2 as very much in character with John's writings and no add-on to the Gospel), we still need to be clear on whether or not he (John) was, in all liklihood, conversant with Koine Greek.
We can't go anywhere till we establish this as common ground.
bnabernard

Quote:
Bernie, can you please define ''person'' because by statute, the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, trustees, trustees in Bankruptcy, or receivers.


good of you to point out the diversity of meanings in such a way, it shows just how unanimous people can be in error when they stray from the truth and into error, they are the ones who open the doors for chaos and close the door on order and the law, the same as in Jhn where they ignore the order of law and the law giver.

However once a mindset has been acheived and multiplied across the back slapping majority who seek to have self rule rather than Gods order many will find it an extreemly difficult task to establish true understanding and gain order, hence they have to buy presents for each other than recieve presents from santa.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"



Then why did John not use the Greek word θεῖος ?

Ralph2 wrote:

You make the scripture fit your belief. When you can produce a scripture that makes it as clear that Jesus is God incarnate,


Lets turn to the 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him,

Ralph, please identify him in the above passage.

Regards

LeClerc
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
Bernie, can you please define ''person'' because by statute, the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, trustees, trustees in Bankruptcy, or receivers.


good of you to point out the diversity of meanings in such a way, it shows just how unanimous people can be in error when they stray from the truth and into error, they are the ones who open the doors for chaos and close the door on order and the law, the same as in Jhn where they ignore the order of law and the law giver.

However once a mindset has been acheived and multiplied across the back slapping majority who seek to have self rule rather than Gods order many will find it an extreemly difficult task to establish true understanding and gain order, hence they have to buy presents for each other than recieve presents from santa.

bernard (hug)


Thank you for that Bernie, can you please define ''person''

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
Bernie, can you please define ''person'' because by statute, the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, trustees, trustees in Bankruptcy, or receivers.


good of you to point out the diversity of meanings in such a way, it shows just how unanimous people can be in error when they stray from the truth and into error, they are the ones who open the doors for chaos and close the door on order and the law, the same as in Jhn where they ignore the order of law and the law giver.

However once a mindset has been acheived and multiplied across the back slapping majority who seek to have self rule rather than Gods order many will find it an extreemly difficult task to establish true understanding and gain order, hence they have to buy presents for each other than recieve presents from santa.

bernard (hug)


Thank you for that Bernie, can you please define ''person''

Regards

LeClerc


That is a task you have to do for yourself by comming to understand God and His order. You already have anough error in your life and are able to blame others and say that they mislead you.
Define the Miltha for me.

Bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Can any one put it plainer than Ralph has, I think not so what sort of problem are some having?

Is Jesus Christ divided? No he is not, so who has the problem with understanding, is it the wheat Christians or is it the weed ones?

Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

That is a task you have to do for yourself by comming to understand God and His order. You already have anough error in your life and are able to blame others and say that they mislead you.
Define the Miltha for me.
Bernard (hug)


You have made the following statement.

bnabernard wrote:

Well there is an issue regarding God as a person, but then you know how I feel on that score,
bernard (hug)


Please define ''person''

Regards

LeClerc
Jim

Is Jesus Christ divided?
Ah, I see you use 'Christ', rather than 'Messiah', James.
Good show...a nodding aquaintance with Anglicised Greek, then.
Soo why is your apology for a paraphrase so erroneous in its' treeatment of John 1:1, then?
I know of atheist scholars, Christian scholars, even Islamic scholars who translate the Scripture correctly.
Why is that so-called Bible of yours so unique?
Could it possibly be that those who perverted it were as knowledgeable in Koine as I am in Klingon?


BEW: the KIT is about as nonsensical, so don't bother wasting my time with that, either.
Derek

[quote="LeClerc:103163"]

Morning Ralph

Quote:
Ralph2 wrote:
A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"



Then why did John not use the Greek word θεῖος ?


LeClerc, I am no expert in the Greek language but I have read the bible, many times. No where in my reading have I picked up any indication of the Trinity, and I did do a cover to cover study. I also have been privileged to raise six children, all of which are successful adults. My wife and I were two individuals acting as one in purpose. That purpose was to insure their happiness. Me and my wife stand as seperate people but we were as a single unit when raising our children, just as God, the father, and His on, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three seperate personages acting as one in purpose. I can find evidence of that in many places in the bible.

[
Quote:
quote="Ralph2:103155"]
You make the scripture fit your belief. When you can produce a scripture that makes it as clear that Jesus is God incarnate,


Quote:
Lets turn to the 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him,

Ralph, please identify him in the above passage.


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Regards

LeClerc
LeClerc

Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


Does it now so what do you now believe about the Almighty and his son?
Derek

LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


Does it now so what do you now believe about the Almighty and his son?


James, with all respect, should you not be answering the question put to you, see below, rather than digging yourself into a deeper hole .

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Regards

LeClerc
LeClerc

Hello Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.


Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985.

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


Does it now so what do you now believe about the Almighty and his son?


James, with all respect, should you not be answering the question put to you, see below, rather than digging yourself into a deeper hole .

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Regards

LeClerc


Who gave Jesus what he has to give his slaves ?

Who does Jesus pass that message onto so that his slaves can benefit from it?

What does the word Almighty mean?

Will clever people be able to change the structure of the heavens with their clever talk?
Jim

...and will JamesJah ever actually answer a question without dodging an embarrasing answer by flinging more Scriptures into the mix?
So much for the ethos of 'Bible students' that started off worshipping Russell, rather than God.....
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:


Who gave Jesus what he has to give his slaves ?

Who does Jesus pass that message onto so that his slaves can benefit from it?

What does the word Almighty mean?

Will clever people be able to change the structure of the heavens with their clever talk?


Now James when you introduce yourself to a stranger and say ''Hello my name is James I live in Sheppey, I'm retired, my interests are religion and science''.

Who gave you those words to speak James ?

The Almighty is the One who appeared to Abram

Genesis 17
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, YHWH appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Was it not the Logos of YHWH who appeared to Abram and said ''I am the Almighty God''

Now please answer the question.

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Did YHWH ever leave Abram?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:


Who gave Jesus what he has to give his slaves ?

Who does Jesus pass that message onto so that his slaves can benefit from it?

What does the word Almighty mean?

Will clever people be able to change the structure of the heavens with their clever talk?


Now James when you introduce yourself to a stranger and say ''Hello my name is James I live in Sheppey, I'm retired, my interests are religion and science''.

Who gave you those words to speak James ?

The Almighty is the One who appeared to Abram

Genesis 17
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, YHWH appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Was it not the Logos of YHWH who appeared to Abram and said ''I am the Almighty God''

Now please answer the question.

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Regards

LeClerc


Funny you should say that, where did you get them from so you could speak them and are they truths about me, do you now know me just a little tiny bit?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
...and will JamesJah ever actually answer a question without dodging an embarrasing answer by flinging more Scriptures into the mix?
So much for the ethos of 'Bible students' that started off worshipping Russell, rather than God.....


Sorry Jim my reasoning is nothing like yours even though we have the same name.

When I see arguments put forward for the trinity I just ask myself how can some one use this to convince others that the Almighty is something he is not?

Will your words change the universe just because you have a view of them that you prefer, rather than what they really are?

By the way we have stopped using that English version few a completely new one so checking the mistakes in that should keep you buzzy for a little while should it not? We still abstain from blood though.
JamesJah

bnabernard wrote:
Did YHWH ever leave Abram?

bernard (hug)


Hallow Bernie not bowed away then, how is the shack still there?
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Did YHWH ever leave Abram?

bernard (hug)


Did The Ruach of YHWH leave Abram, no.

Psalm 139
YHWH, you have probed me, and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I stand up,
you discern my inclinations from afar,
3 you scrutinize my daily activities.
You are so familiar with all my ways
4 that before I speak even a word, YHWH,
you know all about it already.
5 You have hemmed me in both behind and in front
and laid your hand on me.
6 Such wonderful knowledge is beyond me,
far too high for me to reach.
7 Where can I go to escape your Ruach?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I climb up to heaven, you are there;
if I lie down in Sh’ol, you are there.
9 If I fly away with the wings of the dawn
and land beyond the sea,
10 even there your hand would lead me,
your right hand would hold me fast.


Did the manifestation of YHWH cease to be manifest to Abram, yes.

Genesis 17
22 With that, God finished speaking with Abram and went up from him.

You have made the following statement.

bnabernard wrote:

Well there is an issue regarding God as a person, but then you know how I feel on that score,
bernard (hug)


Please define ''person''

Regards

LeClerc
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Still waiting.

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

Who did the speaking to those of the promise?

Galatians 3:19
Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was

transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

So who does the talking regardless of who they are talking about?
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
Who did the speaking to those of the promise?

Galatians 3:19
Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was

transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

So who does the talking regardless of who they are talking about?


You confuse the giving of the oral law with the giving of the written law.

Pharisaic Judaism teaches that the oral law was given by angels, however the written law was given by YHWH to Moses face to face.

Genesis 33
11 YHWH would speak to Moshe face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Now James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Still waiting.

Regards

LeClerc
Jim

This 'new translation' of yours, James:
You will, of course, be able to vALIDATE AND IDENTIFY THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT?
i MEAN, i'D HATE TO SEE THE SAME COWARDICE DISPLAYED AS IN THE CASE OF THAT DETESTABLE nwt...
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
This 'new translation' of yours, James:
You will, of course, be able to vALIDATE AND IDENTIFY THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT?
i MEAN, i'D HATE TO SEE THE SAME COWARDICE DISPLAYED AS IN THE CASE OF THAT DETESTABLE nwt...


Yes people like you who think they know best, their words are looked at to see if they are just wild ranting at JW's or if the person has something sensible and valid to add to the matter in question as Jehovah's people are only interested in the truth of Gods word and not wild traditional ramblings, that have been adopted by many religions over the years.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
Who did the speaking to those of the promise?

Galatians 3:19
Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was

transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

So who does the talking regardless of who they are talking about?


You confuse the giving of the oral law with the giving of the written law.

Pharisaic Judaism teaches that the oral law was given by angels, however the written law was given by YHWH to Moses face to face.

Genesis 33
11 YHWH would speak to Moshe face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Now James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Still waiting.

Regards

LeClerc


I think what you might need Leclerc is a proper bible study with a JW you could cover all the points that you personally think give you a solid basis for what you have been indoctrinated with.

Exodus 33:17-20
Jehovah went on to say to Moses: This thing, too, of which you have spoken, I shall do, because you have found favour in my eyes and I know you by name.

At this he said: Cause me to see, please, your glory.”

But he said: “ myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favour the one whom I may favour, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.

 And he added: You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.


John 17:4, 5
.I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.
So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

John 17:20-23
I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word;

 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.

I in union with them and you in union with me, in order

that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. 
Jim

So:
That'll be a no, then?
You can't validate the qualifications or identify those responsible for your 'translation'?

Oh, what a surprise......or possibly not.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
So:
That'll be a no, then?
You can't validate the qualifications or identify those responsible for your 'translation'?

Oh, what a surprise......or possibly not.


Ever asked the question of how many translators the New World order has?
Jim

Wot?
James....PLEASE don't tell me you believe the 'New World Order' rubbish?
Surely the Watchtower isn't THAT paranoid?
I mean, I know they're a bit off the wall, but, really?


Next, you'll start waxing lyrical about Nabiru and the Illuminati!

Been over indulging over the Festive period...again?
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:


I think what you might need Leclerc is a proper bible study with a JW you could cover all the points that you personally think give you a solid basis for what you have been indoctrinated with.

Exodus 33:17-20
Jehovah went on to say to Moses: This thing, too, of which you have spoken, I shall do, because you have found favour in my eyes and I know you by name.

At this he said: Cause me to see, please, your glory.”

But he said: “ myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favour the one whom I may favour, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.

 And he added: You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.


John 17:4, 5
.I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.
So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

John 17:20-23
I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word;

 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.

I in union with them and you in union with me, in order

that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. 


All that JW study and yet you still fail to understand James.

Genesis 32
30 So Jacob named that place Peniel [Face of God], because he said, “I have seen Elohim face to face, but my life was saved.”

Now James

JamesJah wrote:


Revelation  1: 1-3 Gives you the rank and order of things if that is not good enough for earth people what is?


According to the punctuation in the NWT what are the first words spoken by The Messiah, Y'shua in Revelation Chapter One ?

For those who are interested
http://tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

Still waiting.

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Wot?
James....PLEASE don't tell me you believe the 'New World Order' rubbish?
Surely the Watchtower isn't THAT paranoid?
I mean, I know they're a bit off the wall, but, really?


Next, you'll start waxing lyrical about Nabiru and the Illuminati!

Been over indulging over the Festive period...again?


Is your problem more with the teachings of Jesus than the translators of scripture?
Jim

Nope.
My problem is the WTBTS' skewed mistranslation and misinterpretation of Scripture to fit their preconcieved agenda which is built on failed false prophesies, unscientific pyrimidiocy and thin air so sparse that re-entry into an atmosphere of it would not require a heat shield.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Nope.
My problem is the WTBTS' skewed mistranslation and misinterpretation of Scripture to fit their preconcieved agenda which is built on failed false prophesies, unscientific pyrimidiocy and thin air so sparse that re-entry into an atmosphere of it would not require a heat shield.



Which end time prophecies are there that have not yet come to fruition?

Come to that how many have you seen fulfilled?

Do you have any understanding of the end of the Gentile times at all what is Gods kingdom?
Jim

Whoa!
The prophesied dates for Jesus' return, James....seven, so far, I believe...though the WTBTS might have added a new one by now - it's so hard to keep count of the blunders they've made....
Beth Sarim, for example.
Innit just as well the LORD didn't come back im1925? Those limos and the swimming pool your outfit bought for Him weren't needed...were they?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Whoa!
The prophesied dates for Jesus' return, James....seven, so far, I believe...though the WTBTS might have added a new one by now - it's so hard to keep count of the blunders they've made....
Beth Sarim, for example.
Innit just as well the LORD didn't come back im1925? Those limos and the swimming pool your outfit bought for Him weren't needed...were they?


Did Jesus say keep on the watch or not?

What have you missed by not keeping on the watch?

Will you be among those who have no idea what was supposed to happen at the end time?

Yes you will that is obvious why because most of the end time events have been and goon while you are fast asleep.

Matthew 25:13
Keep on the watch, therefore, because you know neither the day nor the hour.

Matthew 25:41
.Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 

Matthew 25:44
Then they also will answer with the words, Lord, when did we see you

JW critics have missed the separating of the wheat and the weeds, the opportunity to escape the end time plagues, the instruction for those who claim to love God, and what has kept them in the dark?

Wild comments by demon inspired expressions that keep men in fear and darkness.


2 Corinthians 4:3, 4
 If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Do you know who the god of this system is?

Have you missed four of the last plagues that are being poured out on mankind?

Revelation 15:1
I saw in heaven another sign, great and wonderful, seven angels with seven plagues. These are the last ones, because by means of them the anger of God is brought to a finish.

Revelation 16:8, 9
The fourth one poured out his bowl upon the sun; and to [the sun] it was granted to scorch the men with fire. And the men were scorched with great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues,

and they did not repent so as to give glory to him.

What is next????
LeClerc

Hello Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.


Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985.

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hello Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.


Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985.

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc


Is you right hand man another appendage to you?

Or is he some one you really rely upon?
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.


Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985.

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc


Is you right hand man another appendage to you?

Or is he some one you really rely upon?


Still struggling I see, and more evasion from James.

Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Evening Ralph

Ralph2 wrote:


I would love to but I do not have it. I have the KJV though, which tells me that 'Him' is Jesus Chist.

Acts 2: 24-25

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved


Does the KJV tell you that he, him, and the Lord is Jesus Christ ?

Regards

LeClerc


We'll, no, it does not say that "I am Jesus", however, when read in context it is obvious that he is Jesus, the son of God.


Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985.

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc


Is you right hand man another appendage to you?

Or is he some one you really rely upon?


Still struggling I see, and more evasion from James.

Now having arrived at the conclusion that he in Acts 2 verse 24 and 25 is Jesus, The Christ, lets now turn to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985

Acts 2
24 But God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it. 25 For David says respecting him ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken.

According to the Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985, In quoting David, Peter identifies him, Jesus, The Christ, as who ?

Regards

LeClerc


Who are you still trying to define Christ as?

David had no problem with early terminology like people today seem to have, trying to put square pegs in round holes.

       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Christian chat Page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum