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Powwow

Elimination of the sick and the weak

A story about "....the sinister end of a girl named Brunhild"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new...f-a-girl-named-brunhild-1.2770394
trentvoyager

Aye, evil lurks everywhere and can be justified by using just about anything.

Quote:
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
cyberman

trentvoyager wrote:
Aye, evil lurks everywhere and can be justified by using just about anything.

Quote:
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


What point are you making here, TV? Did you just see a way of having a pop at theism?
trentvoyager

cyberman wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Aye, evil lurks everywhere and can be justified by using just about anything.

Quote:
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


What point are you making here, TV? Did you just see a way of having a pop at theism?


Abodslutely not. The point I was making was that  the OP was having a pop (I would surmise) at all those evil people who believe in eugenics which he usually ascribes to atheists.

As you will notice from my post I didn't accuse people of religion or people without religion. I said if you read it, that evil can be justified by using just about anything.

For example, Hitler used religion as a justification for his deeds.

Now I don't think Hitler was anymore motivated to commit his evil acts by his supposed Christianty, than Stalin was by his supposed Atheism - but others will try to paint a different picture.
Powwow

trent,
Are you explaining why the atheist government of China persecutes the underground Christians? Are you trying to explain why if you don't belong to the atheist government approved churches, but are meeting in homes, you will be hunted down and put in prison? Are you trying to explain why the atheist government of N Korea will throw you in prison for owning a Bible? Their version of atheism may not be yours but to suggest it doesn't in any way influence their hate and persecution of Christians and our scriptures is very naive.

Hitler Youth song
"We follow not Christ but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth"

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~geary20d/worldpolitics/maozedeng.html
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Aye, evil lurks everywhere and can be justified by using just about anything.

Quote:
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


What point are you making here, TV? Did you just see a way of having a pop at theism?


TV's mileage may well differ (and probably does) but any excuse to that end will do for me. Any reason to have a pop at theism is a good reason, by definition as far as I'm concerned.

But then he isn't (AFAIK) an antitheist whereas I am, which probably explains it. TV's post is the kind of post I would have made for explicitly antitheistic ends, which I have absolutely no reason to believe his was, since he said "Absolutely not" whereas I would have said "Absolutely."
Powwow

"This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features."   Karl Marx

"...The classes and the races too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way."   Karl Marx  "Forced Immigration"
Shaker

Relevance - the understanding of which is a skill worth learning.

You look like an arse otherwise.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
trent,
Are you explaining why the atheist government of China persecutes the underground Christians? Are you trying to explain why if you don't belong to the atheist government approved churches, but are meeting in homes, you will be hunted down and put in prison? Are you trying to explain why the atheist government of N Korea will throw you in prison for owning a Bible? Their version of atheism may not be yours but to suggest it doesn't in any way influence their hate and persecution of Christians and our scriptures is very naive.

Hitler Youth song
"We follow not Christ but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth"

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~geary20d/worldpolitics/maozedeng.html


You're not reading my posts. You  are answering posts in your own head.

If you think that the Chinese Government are acting the way they do because of their "atheism" then you have to accept good ole Adolf acted the way he did because of his Christianity.

As I have already pointed out - he did go out of his way to tell us.

So you must be very naïve to not believe that Christianity did not affect the Nazis desire to kill Jews. Adolf told us - it must be true.

Quote:
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922



So what you say Powsers - good old fascist or good old Communists - the choice is yours. Come on Down.
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
You're not reading my posts. You  are answering posts in your own head.

*cough*

Not the only one.

Quote:
If you think that the Chinese Government are acting the way they do because of their "atheism" then you have to accept good ole Adolf acted the way he did because of his Christianity.

Goodness me Trent, you seem to have hit upon something I brought to mind a long, long time ago. Let's see how long it takes powsers to get it ... if he ever does
Powwow

Silliest trent,
You are the one that went of on about Hitler. A man that viewed Christians and the German church as weak.
Yes Hitlers sick Nazi Reich Church shows you exactly what he thought. None of which is traditional , scriptural Christianity. His elimination of the weak is very socialist and atheistic. Just read some of Karl Marx dear trent.
Perverted faiths are as dangerous as atheism.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
His elimination of the weak is very socialist and atheistic.

Where does socialism call for the elimination of the sick and the weak, you silly, silly, tedious little man?

Quote:
Just read some of Karl Marx dear trent.

I've read a great deal of Karl Fuzzychops. Can't remember reading anything, anywhere, about the elimination of the sick and the weak. Can you provide references?
trentvoyager

Quote:
Perverted faiths are as dangerous as atheism.


Not really. I would state it as I previously did - anyone can justify evil with practically anything. Which covers it all really.

And just in case you don't get the inference - it means that I believe that neither Christianity or Atheism are inherently evil. It's just what some folks choose to do with it.

So lets have less of your knee jerk nonsense about atheism - RED MIST slobber - MUST ATTACK - slobber, spittle -  BAD PEOPLE.
Powwow

No, dearest trent, lets have less of you bringing up Hitler and that Christian thingy. This about eliminating the weak and you went on a stupid little crusade about Hitler and his supposed Christianity. Good grief, and now you are acting the ass by going at me for what you started for no good reason but to take a swipe at Christianity because that's part of the atheist play book.
You brought it up, so stop crying about it already. I milked it for all it's worth. Now how about that socialist Karl Marx and his take on the weak in society. What do you think it was in him that caused his hate for Jews and the weak?
What's going on in the Belgian people that they kill their sick babies?
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
No, dearest trent, lets have less of you bringing up Hitler and that Christian thingy. This about eliminating the weak and you went on a stupid little crusade about Hitler and his supposed Christianity. Good grief, and now you are acting the ass by going at me for what you started for no good reason but to take a swipe at Christianity because that's part of the atheist play book.
You brought it up, so stop crying about it already. I milked it for all it's worth. Now how about that socialist Karl Marx and his take on the weak in society. What do you think it was in him that caused his hate for Jews and the weak?
What's going on in the Belgian people that they kill their sick babies?


I'm sorry - crying? Laughing at you maybe  

You were the one who posted the link about the Nazis - it really isn't that much of a stretch from there to Adolf - don't blame me for pointing out that which is obvious to all.

As for Karl Marx - no idea. As I have never claimed to be a Marxist I feel no particular need to defend him or his views - but anti-semitism is no respector of boundaries; in either a political or religious sense.

Oh and I'm not Belgian either.

I might add - I don't believe that it is right to kill sick babies and I'm an atheist.

Is that all?
cyberman

Shaker wrote:

I've read a great deal of Karl Fuzzychops. Can't remember reading anything, anywhere, about the elimination of the sick and the weak.  


Same here. No such reference exists in the Marxist canon, I am sure.
cyberman

pow wow wrote:
how about that socialist Karl Marx and his take on the weak in society. What do you think it was in him that caused his hate for Jews and the weak?
 


He was a Jew.

We are still awaiting any reference to show us why you think he hated the weak.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
Now how about that socialist Karl Marx and his take on the weak in society.

What was Marx's view on the weak in society?

Do you even know?

But of course you don't.
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
We are still awaiting any reference to show us why you think he hated the weak.


... and we shall continue to wait.
Shaker

... still waiting ...
Jim

Shaker wrote:
pow wow wrote:
His elimination of the weak is very socialist and atheistic.

Where does socialism call for the elimination of the sick and the weak, you silly, silly, tedious little man?

Quote:
Just read some of Karl Marx dear trent.

I've read a great deal of Karl Fuzzychops. Can't remember reading anything, anywhere, about the elimination of the sick and the weak. Can you provide references?


-
Maybe someone changed it to fit theitr ideas of what socialism should be.
(Remembering that the founders of socialism in these islands were, by and large, committed Christians.)
Powwow

Marx letter to Antoinette Philips  May24  1861

Marx  "On the Jewish Question"

Marx letter to Adulf Cluss July 20 1852

Marx  "The Russian Loan"  New York Daily Tribune  Jan 4  1856

In Marx letter to Engels July of 1862 he writes about "the Jewish Nigger"

Marx views of who he considered weaker peoples in Europe and what they must do is no secret.

We need a real administrator around here. Not someone who's temper and name calling is exactly like a spoiled, little, 6 year old brat.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
Marx letter to Antoinette Philips  May24  1861

What about it?

Quote:
Marx  "On the Jewish Question"


Is that the same On the Jewish Question in which Marx criticises Bruno Bauer and argues for the emancipation of Jews?

Quote:
Marx letter to Adulf Cluss July 20 1852

What about it?

Quote:
Marx  "The Russian Loan"  New York Daily Tribune  Jan 4  1856


What about it?

Quote:
In Marx letter to Engels July of 1862 he writes about "the Jewish Nigger"

And?

Quote:
Marx views of who he considered weaker peoples in Europe and what they must do is no secret.


You mean economically and socially weaker, as in, the working classes?

But you stated (no evidence provided, obviously) that he hated the weak, whereas Marx's entire political and economic philosophy was centred on the empowerment of the proletariat.

You're really not even trying here, are you?

Quote:
We need a real administrator around here. Not someone who's temper and name calling is exactly like a spoiled, little, 6 year old brat.

If you're not happy with the administration, take it up with the administrator.

If that doesn't work, leave.

What's difficult about that?
Powwow

You are so easy old Shaker! (smilies)
Powwow

You're a marxist Shaker, of course you will excuse your hero's hate, intolerance and cruelty. All things those things make a marxist a marxist.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
You're a marxist Shaker, of course you will excuse your hero's hate, intolerance and cruelty.


Those very things which you've asserted and for which you've provided absolutely not a single scrap or shred of evidence, needless to say.

And are still not providing. Is that why you keep posting about nothing in particular - so that we'll somehow overlook the fact that yet again you assert without substantiation?
cyberman

pow wow wrote:
You're a marxist Shaker, of course you will excuse your hero's hate, intolerance and cruelty. All things those things make a marxist a marxist.


You have completely failed to back up your claim that Marx exhibited hate, intolerance and cruelty.

You keep referring obliquely to Marx's view on weak people. What was Marx's view on weak people?
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
You keep referring obliquely to Marx's view on weak people. What was Marx's view on weak people?


According to powsers, he hated them.

What we actually need, of course, is the evidence to demonstrate this, and which we won't get.
cyberman

Shaker wrote:
cyberman wrote:
You keep referring obliquely to Marx's view on weak people. What was Marx's view on weak people?


According to powsers, he hated them.

What we actually need, of course, is the evidence to demonstrate this, and which we won't get.


But the whole point of Marx is that he wishes to empower the powerless. When Marx is criticised (by people who know about him) it is because he treats the powerful too harshly, or that is economics are naive in allowing the poor too much power, not that he hates the weak. Has powwow got Marx mixed up with someone else?
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
But the whole point of Marx is that he wishes to empower the powerless.

Yes, I know, but then I've read Marx.

You know too, because you've also read Marx.

Powsers thinks that Marx hated the weak, but you can bet your shirt that he won't have read any Marx whose name isn't preceded by Groucho.
Quote:
Has powwow got Marx mixed up with someone else?

What are the odds of that, do you reckon? Because he's so monumentally uninformed in every conceivable way, he flip-flops back and forth between:

Quote:
Now how about that socialist Karl Marx and his take on the weak in society. What do you think it was in him that caused his hate for Jews and the weak?


and

Quote:
Marx views of who he considered weaker peoples in Europe and what they must do is no secret.


So in what passes for powsers's mind, Marx hated the weak (in what sense? Economically? We weren't told) and wanted to see them eliminated, but at the same time he had some sort of plan for them to carry out. Nor are any references to substantiate Marx's

Quote:
hate, intolerance and cruelty


forthcoming, nor will they be.
Powwow

Nope. I do encourage you to read what the hateful racist wrote. It's all there Cyber. You can start with the letter where he calls a person a "Jewish nigger". Empower the weak, no, not of they stand in the way of his revolution or evolution one might say. (smilies)
Shaker

Quote:
Empower the weak, no, not of they stand in the way of his revolution

Erm, the revolution that Marx envisaged was of the proletariat, wasn't it? That's the say the working classes, the exploited, the disadvantaged, the oppressed - so their revolution rather than his, surely?

What a maroon.
cyberman

pow wow wrote:
Nope. I do encourage you to read what the hateful racist wrote. It's all there Cyber. You can start with the letter where he calls a person a "Jewish nigger". Empower the weak, no, not of they stand in the way of his revolution or evolution one might say. (smilies)


What did he mean by that term? I agree that to our ears it is a racist term, but you are going to have to explain how it means he hated jews (eg himself) and the weak. Can you explain that? Can you cite anything he wrote which suggests hatred of the weak?
Powwow

I produced a list of writing and letters of blessed Marx that you can read in full Cyber.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
I produced a list of writing and letters of blessed Marx that you can read in full Cyber.

I've read them - pretty well the vast bulk of Marx's writings are available, free, gratis and for nothing, online. I'm probably most familar with On the Jewish Question, which doesn't state what you think it states. As a matter of fact, it actually states the opposite ... so we can yet again chalk up another intellectual deficiency and failure of comprehension on your part.

This was always inevitable; it was just a matter of how long it was going to take before it became so readily apparent.
cyberman

pow wow wrote:
I produced a list of writing and letters of blessed Marx that you can read in full Cyber.


You did. Not one of them says a single thing which can be interpreted as meaning that he hated the weak. Not one.
Shaker

Strange, that.

Obviously, I use that combination of words in an ironic "Not really strange at all" sense.
Powwow

Ha, dear Cyber, you are pretending again. Too funny you!
cyberman

pow wow wrote:
Ha, dear Cyber, you are pretending again. Too funny you!


What am I 'pretending', Captain Paranoia?
Powwow

http://marxwords.blogspot.ca/
Farmer Geddon

Ok Marx was a Jew hater...

Still waiting for the evidence that he also hated the weak!
Shaker

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Still waiting for the evidence that he also hated the weak!

As are we all some of us, FG.

It used to be the case that Marx, or rather Marxism generally, was known for its support of the (socially and economically) weak. By that I mean the disadvantaged, the dispossessed - the working class, the proletariat, the down-at-heel, the poor, the sick, the elderly, against the forces of class privilege, reaction, repression and capitalism. That's why - historically - it has attracted so much support from people with a functioning conscience, a sense of empathy and a working radar for unfairness and injustice.

That doesn't seem to have filtered as far as powser's domicile as yet, for some reason.
Powwow

http://marxwords.blogspot.ca/
Jim

Shaker wrote:
pow wow wrote:
I produced a list of writing and letters of blessed Marx that you can read in full Cyber.

I've read them - pretty well the vast bulk of Marx's writings are available, free, gratis and for nothing, online. I'm probably most familar with On the Jewish Question, which doesn't state what you think it states. As a matter of fact, it actually states the opposite ... so we can yet again chalk up another intellectual deficiency and failure of comprehension on your part.

This was always inevitable; it was just a matter of how long it was going to take before it became so readily apparent.


-
Yep. This was basic 'O'grade/level Modern Studies stuff when I was at secondary school. That's when I first read Marx and Engels' stuff.
To take their writing out of context, both in terms of the surrounding book, and the times in which it was written, is quite simply basic schoolboy error.
Farmer Geddon

pow wow wrote:
http://marxwords.blogspot.ca/


Yeah..  all that page claims is Marx was a Jew hater.. read it twice and still couldn't find any references to him hating the weak.

Is it your grasp of the English language that is lacking?
Powwow

Really Jim, shame on you. It's very hard to take Karl's remark, "Jewish nigger" out of context. Easier for you to take Ian Paisley out of context no doubt. It's hard for me to take his notion that the races that are not far enough advanced have to give way out of context. He was taking about your highlanders there Jim.

What ever. It is what it is . A Presbyterian minister and a bunch of atheists love Karl Marx. No surprise.

Look at the dudes personal life, that tells you the character of the man. And you people defend him. Thank God most Brits see the sense in judging a man by how he treats his family.
Powwow

Luci,
Karl respected no race that he felt wasn't far enough advanced.
Jim

pow wow wrote:
Really Jim, shame on you. It's very hard to take Karl's remark, "Jewish nigger" out of context. Easier for you to take Ian Paisley out of context no doubt. It's hard for me to take his notion that the races that are not far enough advanced have to give way out of context. He was taking about your highlanders there Jim.

What ever. It is what it is . A Presbyterian minister and a bunch of atheists love Karl Marx. No surprise.

Look at the dudes personal life, that tells you the character of the man. And you people defend him. Thank God most Brits see the sense in judging a man by how he treats his family.


-
We were taught critical reading at school.
That meant we studied documents in their historical context.
Not only Mein Kampf, Das Kapital, The Gettysburg Address - and King's "I have a dream" speech, but Paisly's speeches to Stormont and Hillsburgh in 1968 and 1975 respectively.
It's called studyindg history and Modern Studies with objectivity.
You should try it sometimes.
I know it's a novel concept, but historians have been doing it for years.
Powwow

I absolutely believe that to be a good historian one must view it all in the context of the times. That is a given Jim. But it does not excuse Marx's nor Luther's attacks on Jews nor Marx's demand that the races that are not far enough along (your highlanders) have to give way. There was never an excuse for the pogroms against God's chosen people in Europe. Historical context and all Jim.
Powwow

Belgium's crusade to kill it's weak.

http://www.americanthinker.com/20...icalized_killing_of_children.html
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Belgium's crusade to kill it's weak.

http://www.americanthinker.com/20...icalized_killing_of_children.html


I know you didn't post that to bring a smile to my face - but it did.

So hysterical and OTT.

So funny you
Jim

pow wow wrote:
I absolutely believe that to be a good historian one must view it all in the context of the times. That is a given Jim. But it does not excuse Marx's nor Luther's attacks on Jews nor Marx's demand that the races that are not far enough along (your highlanders) have to give way. There was never an excuse for the pogroms against God's chosen people in Europe. Historical context and all Jim.

-
That is an INTERPRETATRION of histiory.
Try reading professional historians from all parts of the spectrum: from AJP Taylor and the (admittedly odious a nd populous) Richard Starkey, to the scholarly TC Smout, Michael Lynch, Ted Cowan, Tom Devine and Johan Prenbble =- before quoting miniscule and meaningless links, please
Powwow

Really dear trent? Instead of laughing it up how about you tell me where the article is over the top and back it up with some proof then?

Why laugh it up? You do realize that in Belgium it is not uncommon for nurses and doctors to kill patients with out a request or prior consent. And it of course follows that Belgium is harvesting the organs of these murdered people.
Powwow

OK Jim, how do you defend Marx's comments about the woman's ugly Jewish facial features, from that historical context thingy? If you keep that comment in it's historical context it is just as disgusting. How could you say otherwise Jim?
Powwow

Killing Jews was a normal thing to do throughout Europe. Keeping that it in it's historical context makes it no less acceptable to God Jim.
Farmer Geddon

Who killed these Jews?

Was it only in the past few decades, or over the last century?

Did Marx hate the weak?


Before 1900, who decided to kill the Jews?

Was it just Marx?

What about the pre 19th century?

Who were the Jew haters?


Why hate Jesus, he was a Jew?
Farmer Geddon

Why weren't the Muslims executed like the Jews were..  they were/are more antichrist than the Jews ever were/are..

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