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Farmer Geddon

Exactly what does Bible study mean?

Does it mean to actually study the Gospels, or just it just mean to regurgitate a series of platitudes to reaffirm what you have been taught it means?
Leonard James

Re: Exactly what does Bible study mean?

Lucifers Duck wrote:
Does it mean to actually study the Gospels, or just it just mean to regurgitate a series of platitudes to reaffirm what you have been taught it means?

I'm sure that a lot of it is dedicated to finding ways to make its 2000+ year-old texts fit in with the knowledge we have now accumulated about the universe and life.

I think it's called 'rationalization', though anything less rational would be hard to find.  :twisted:
Pukon_the_Treen

Quote:
I'm sure that a lot of it is dedicated to finding ways to make its 2000+ year-old texts fit in with the knowledge we have now accumulated about the universe and life.

I think it's called 'rationalization', though anything less rational would be hard to find.


Any religious or spiritual scripture worth it's salt should be sufficiently vague, esoteric and 'mythic' to be able to have some elements which can be reinterpreted to fit in with the concerns of any generation.  Humans are so distressingly (and sometimes comfortingly) similar that there are bound to be many areas today where with a bit of flexibility these bronze age ponderings can be applied usefully.

Of course, there will also be a whole lot of anachronistic dross that should just be ignored.
Mr Spock

Bible study means study of the bible.
this is a very silly thread
Rose

Re: Exactly what does Bible study mean?

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Does it mean to actually study the Gospels, or just it just mean to regurgitate a series of platitudes to reaffirm what you have been taught it means?


To the few I attended it meant discussing the different parts of the bible ie stories and relating it to your own life and events around you.

Often each section is already pre selected for you.

Julie
cyberman

Re: Exactly what does Bible study mean?

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Does it mean to actually study the Gospels, or just it just mean to regurgitate a series of platitudes to reaffirm what you have been taught it means?


Some people do the former, some the latter, some do something in between.
Lexilogio

Re: Exactly what does Bible study mean?

Farmer Geddon wrote:
Does it mean to actually study the Gospels, or just it just mean to regurgitate a series of platitudes to reaffirm what you have been taught it means?


I think it means seeking clarity and understanding.

Sometimes this does involve starting out with the obvious position. But it is then about listening to and discussing other approaches. I have learnt quite a bit over the years from reading things from experts in other aspects of scriptural texts.
bnabernard

Bible study seems to be like playing with a rubik cube with an audience that keep offering their own ideas of how to complete it.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Bible study seems to be like playing with a rubik cube with an audience that keep offering their own ideas of how to complete it.

bernard (hug)


In true Bible Study, the Rubik Cube completes itself.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well gosh how about that then, I wonder if the day will ever see the light.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well gosh how about that then, I wonder if the day will ever see the light.

bernard (hug)


2 Peter 1
20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own;

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well gosh how about that then,

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well gosh how about that then,

bernard (hug)


2 Peter 1
21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing — on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well gosh,

the word of God made flesh

bernard (hug)

anyone for a shaliach
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well gosh,

the word of God made flesh

bernard (hug)

anyone for a shaliach


You have just demonstrated the truth of scripture

2 Peter 1
20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own;

What you are translating as word is λαλέω (laleō) not λόγος (Logos)

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well,

I don't remember reading anything in a foriegn langauge, perhaps you could point out where I read it?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well,

I don't remember reading anything in a foriegn langauge, perhaps you could point out where I read it?

bernard (hug)


Whatever translation you read, the translators have done that for you Bernie.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

There you go, admitting to telling lies, thank you, after all there might have been some who believed you when you said I did some trannslating.

While we are in the mood for telling the truth, I take it you are in the mood for telling the truth perhaps we could ask your opinion on what you receive when you recieve a message, is the message you recieve 'word' from the one sending the message and therefore the word of the one sending the message.
Commonly we might say ''have you recieved any word from your friend yet?'' a reply might be ''yes he sent a note,'' or ''yes he spoke to me through so and so who saw him''

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/50_john.html


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
There you go, admitting to telling lies, thank you, after all there might have been some who believed you when you said I did some trannslating.

While we are in the mood for telling the truth, I take it you are in the mood for telling the truth perhaps we could ask your opinion on what you receive when you recieve a message, is the message you recieve 'word' from the one sending the message and therefore the word of the one sending the message.
Commonly we might say ''have you recieved any word from your friend yet?'' a reply might be ''yes he sent a note,'' or ''yes he spoke to me through so and so who saw him''

bernard (hug)


Well Bernie somehow you have managed to translate

LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well gosh how about that then,

bernard (hug)


2 Peter 1
21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing — on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.

Regards

LeClerc



into

bnabernard wrote:
Well gosh,

the word of God made flesh

bernard (hug)

anyone for a shaliach


These English words are translated by the translators from the Greek into English.

What you have done Bernie is to assume the Greek word translated as spoke has the same meaning as Greek word translated as word

The Greek words are different as I have shown you.

Now who is twisting the truth Bernie ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Oh dear, oh dear, is that how you come to your conclusions, through presumptions, what is message is that not a word from one to another.

You must get out of the habit of attributing thoughts and deeds to people as it only shows you up as one who is misled and misleads.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Oh dear, oh dear, is that how you come to your conclusions, through presumptions, what is message is that not a word from one to another.

You must get out of the habit of attributing thoughts and deeds to people as it only shows you up as one who is misled and misleads.

bernard (hug)


The translation quoted was the Complete Jewish Version

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1&version=CJB

21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing — on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh spoke a message from God.

The King James Version

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1&version=KJV

reads as follows

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The English word Message does not appear in the original Greek

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/1-21.htm

neither in many other translations

https://www.blueletterbible.org/B...;c=1&t=KJV#s=t_bibles_1157021

The misunderstanding was of my making I apologise.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/index.html


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/index.html


bernard (hug)


I see you are interested in the Hebrew.

now who is God over all the earth

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/holyassembly/chapter10.html
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/holyassembly/chapter10.html


Below is a quote from the above link, you will find it under

Yeshua the Torah Giver

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/holyassembly/chapter12.html

Quote:

Yeshua the Torah Giver


"If you love me, you will obey what I command. ... Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. ... If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching". (John 14:15,21,23)


Is "love" the only command Yeshua taught? Not at all, throughout Yeshua' ministry he taught from the Torah. Yeshua taught Israel how to keep the whole Torah, the way it was meant to be, in love and not obligation. We must also remember that Yeshua is God. We usually look at God as the giver of the Torah in the First Covenant, but Yeshua is God making him the Torah giver. Therefore, when Yeshua said "obey my teachings" he is not only referring to his teachings as a man, but also as God. 1 John 5:3 confirms this when it says, "This is love for God: to obey his commands".



Now what are you going to do Bernie, when the site you are linking to confirms what you have been shown on numerous occasions.

''We must also remember that Yeshua is God''.

Now if we turn to the Introduction page of the site you linked to

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/holyassembly/intro.html#_Toc88004639

We find the following

Quote:

I was raised in a main stream denominational church and throughout my Religious education I was instructed in the doctrines of the Church. The first time that these doctrines were challenged was when a member of a prominent cult showed me scriptures that revealed that I was in a church that taught false doctrine concerning the deity of Jesus Christ. This bothered me because although I understood the doctrines of my church I could not back them up using the scriptures. I began to wonder if what I had been taught was really the truth. I decided that I needed to find the truth myself and I began to diligently search the scriptures to see what they said about the deity of Jesus. After many months of study I found my answer, Jesus truly was and is God in the flesh. With that knowledge, I have taken the opportunity to witness to Members of this cult by using the scriptures. But, as I was to find out, God was not finished with my studies in the scriptures, there was a great deal more to learn.



''After many months of study I found my answer, Jesus truly was and is God in the flesh''.



Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/50_john.html

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/50_john.html

bernard (hug)


From the link you have given.

Quote:


"In the beginning was the Teaching, and the Teaching was with God, and the Teaching was God."

Then in verse 14 we read "And the teachings became flesh."



Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

"Shaliach -- the word means "agent" and "emissary" -- is a halachic (Torah-legal) term for a person empowered by someone else to act in his stead.  [Yeshua was empowered by YHVH (God) to act in His stead.]  The shaliach first appears in the Torah in the person of Eliezer, whom Abraham commissioned to find a wife for his son, Isaac. Rebecca was selected and betrothed as a wife for Isaac by Eliezer -- she was legally Isaac's wife without her actual husband having ever set eyes on her or having exchanged a single word with her. In the words of the Talmud, "A person's shaliach is as he himself."

howevr this is more up your street

http://www.seedofabraham.net/yeshua.html

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
"Shaliach -- the word means "agent" and "emissary" -- is a halachic (Torah-legal) term for a person empowered by someone else to act in his stead.  [Yeshua was empowered by YHVH (God) to act in His stead.]  The shaliach first appears in the Torah in the person of Eliezer, whom Abraham commissioned to find a wife for his son, Isaac. Rebecca was selected and betrothed as a wife for Isaac by Eliezer -- she was legally Isaac's wife without her actual husband having ever set eyes on her or having exchanged a single word with her. In the words of the Talmud, "A person's shaliach is as he himself."

however this is more up your street

http://www.seedofabraham.net/yeshua.html

bernard (hug)


Whats the problem Bernie. The site you linked to earlier proclaims who Y'shua is, because it does not agree with the false teaching you hold to, you choose to now ignore it.

If you do your research on the word Shaliach you will find the following.

Upon assuming the leadership of Chabad in 1950, Rebbe set himself a goal: to reach every person on the face of the earth and inspire them to turn to the Torah as the guiding light by which to achieve personal and global redemption. To attain this goal, the Rebbe invented the shaliach.

Who or what is a shaliach

A shaliach (Hebrew: שליח‎, pl. שליחים/שלוחים, shlichim/shluchim) is a member of the Chabad Hasidic movement who is sent out to promulgate Judaism and Hasidism in locations around the world.

I don't believe Y'shua was a member of the Chabad Hasidic movement or promulgated Pharisaic Judaism and Hasidsm, do you Bernie ?

Have you read the new link you posted Bernie ?

Do you know the difference between persona and person ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://www.torahofmessiah.com/shaliach.htm

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/shaliach.htm

bernard (hug)


If you check back on this thread you will find the following.

LeClerc wrote:


Upon assuming the leadership of Chabad in 1950, Rebbe set himself a goal: to reach every person on the face of the earth and inspire them to turn to the Torah as the guiding light by which to achieve personal and global redemption. To attain this goal, the Rebbe invented the shaliach.



If you check the site you have linked too you will find the following

Quote:

The Hebrew word for emissary is shaliach (sha-LEE-ock).  Below I will quote from an Orthodox Jewish teaching.  It comes from ChabadOnline.com, which is an online web site promoting Chabad-Lubavitch teachings.



Chabadonline.com quotes the following.

Quote:


Upon assuming the leadership of Chabad in 1950, the Rebbe set himself a goal: to reach every person on the face of the earth and inspire them to turn to the Torah as the guiding light by which to achieve personal and global redemption. To attain this goal, the Rebbe invented the shaliach



You will see it is what I posted earlier.

The term Shaliach was invented in 1950.

Maybe Bernie you are getting confused with Shaliah in halakhic Jewish legal affairs.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

What is an invention?
Jesus was not a new concept, in fact he was the image of an original design and therefore not subject to intectual property rights.
Just like the word shaliach which is a one word descriptive of a form of representation.

You are stuck in treacle because the man that you call God is a form constructed from the periodic table, are you saying God is the periodic table?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What is an invention?
Jesus was not a new concept, in fact he was the image of an original design and therefore not subject to intectual property rights.
Just like the word shaliach which is a one word descriptive of a form of representation.

bernard (hug)


Don't you read your own links which you post.

Quote:
Upon assuming the leadership of Chabad in 1950, the Rebbe set himself a goal: to reach every person on the face of the earth and inspire them to turn to the Torah as the guiding light by which to achieve personal and global redemption. To attain this goal, the Rebbe invented the shaliach


The term Shaliach was invented in 1950 AD

bnabernard wrote:

You are stuck in treacle because the man that you call God is a form constructed from the periodic table, are you saying God is the periodic table?


The Logos became flesh.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-14.htm

What was The Logos before becoming flesh

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-1.htm

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

There you go with te greek again, what do the greek know about the God of Abraham.

Are you saying that Jesus was not a man of flesh and blood?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
There you go with te greek again, what do the greek know about the God of Abraham.

Are you saying that Jesus was not a man of flesh and blood?

bernard (hug)


Lets begin here.

The extant Messianic Writing manuscripts which we have are in Greek are they not ?

Those who wrote in Greek, wrote from a Hebraic mindset did they not ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
There you go with te greek again, what do the greek know about the God of Abraham.

Are you saying that Jesus was not a man of flesh and blood?

bernard (hug)


Lets begin here.

The extant Messianic Writing manuscripts which we have are in Greek are they not ?

Those who wrote in Greek, wrote from a Hebraic mindset did they not ?

Regards

LeClerc


Attempted to write in a Hebriac mindset, unfortunately Greek was a language set apert from the hebrew mindset.
Consequently you have a failing in definitions and the only way to make good them failings is to put the ridiculous where it belongs because in the greek terminology you end up with not a mediator but a usurper as in the case of davids son Absolam.

Jesus was a man, fully man, flesh and blood and a mind of his own, flesh and blod is a creation formed from the elements just as the first man was created from the dust/elements.
All roads lead to the same place when we refer to flesh and blood, the elements, not all the elements but anough to form man, a created being from embryo to full grown adult.

bernard (hug)

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:


Attempted to write in a Hebriac mindset, unfortunately Greek was a language set apert from the hebrew mindset.


Maybe you would prefer the Peshitta.

http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/msviewer.php?ms=4&id=377

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/index.php





bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/index.php
bernard (hug)


Quote from their web site

Quote:

12. The Redeemer will come and that however long it may take, we will await His coming every day.


So Bernie, you are now linking to a site which denies that Y'shua ben Yosef of Nazareth is Israel's Messiah.

Y'shua ben Yosef said

Matthew 10
32 So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

I am very concerned for you Bernie.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/index.php
bernard (hug)


Quote from their web site

Quote:

12. The Redeemer will come and that however long it may take, we will await His coming every day.


So Bernie, you are now linking to a site which denies that Y'shua ben Yosef of Nazareth is Israel's Messiah.

Y'shua ben Yosef said

Matthew 10
32 So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

I am very concerned for you Bernie.

Regards

LeClerc


What concerns me is that you believe he is the father whilst the scripture you quote does not.

Jesu acknowledges who he is and where he is and speaks of the Father where He is.

Now while you have God/man in the fashion of the greeks the Israelites Have one Almighty God who is in heaven.

Your teaching places Absolam at the gate usurping the crown and demeaning the true God, whilst those who understand see Jesus as the one who was in tune with the mind of God the Father.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/index.php
bernard (hug)


Quote from their web site

Quote:

12. The Redeemer will come and that however long it may take, we will await His coming every day.


So Bernie, you are now linking to a site which denies that Y'shua ben Yosef of Nazareth is Israel's Messiah.

Y'shua ben Yosef said

Matthew 10
32 So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

I am very concerned for you Bernie.

Regards

LeClerc


What concerns me is that you believe he is the father whilst the scripture you quote does not.

bernard (hug)


From the Hebrew scriptures.

Isaiah 9 WEB
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

So you believe in a mighty God and an Almighty God, now that you have the two Gods and are able to access scripture that tells you that you should have no Gods before YHWH the Almighty God what is the explanation that you give yourself to excuse yourself.

Perhaps you had better start looking into the mindset of Israel rather than let yourself be led up the garden path by those who aren't, you know the ones I mean, those ones who would put a false God at the gate of the city.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So you believe in a mighty God and an Almighty God, now that you have the two Gods and are able to access scripture that tells you that you should have no Gods before YHWH the Almighty God what is the explanation that you give yourself to excuse yourself.

Perhaps you had better start looking into the mindset of Israel rather than let yourself be led up the garden path by those who aren't, you know the ones I mean, those ones who would put a false God at the gate of the city.

bernard (hug)


You should be asking James that question Bernie.

Now you are accusing Isaiah of being a false prophet and leading Israel to break Torah by teaching their are two Gods.

If Y'shua is a God other then YHWH how can one mention His name without breaking Torah ?

Exodus 23
13 “And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth.

Now now Bernie.

Revelation 1
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

You are the one confused not me, you first speak of a Mighty God then an Almighty God then you say that they are one and the same, then try to convince me that a man is Almighty Mighty God, what with your ice cubes and oceans, it's about time you realised that a man is made up from elements of the periodic table and is not mighty or almighty but subject to the Almighty, get to grips with what would have been understood by the Israelite and you won't have the problems that men try to teach you.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
You are the one confused not me, you first speak of a Mighty God then an Almighty God then you say that they are one and the same
bernard (hug)


What is the name of the mighty God in the following scripture ?

Isaiah 10
20 On that day, what’s left of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who beat them. Instead, they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the holy one of Israel. 21 A few will return, what’s left of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22 Although your people, Israel, were like the sand of the sea, only a few survivors will return. The end is announced, overflowing with justice.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
You are the one confused not me, you first speak of a Mighty God then an Almighty God then you say that they are one and the same
bernard (hug)


What is the name of the mighty God in the following scripture ?

Isaiah 10
20 On that day, what’s left of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who beat them. Instead, they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the holy one of Israel. 21 A few will return, what’s left of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22 Although your people, Israel, were like the sand of the sea, only a few survivors will return. The end is announced, overflowing with justice.

Regards

LeClerc


You realy do have a problem dont you?
Mighty God is not mentioned in that passage.

bernard (hug)
Farmer Geddon

Bern .. don't engage with Le Lynne ..  she will suck out your lifeforce..
bnabernard



It's just a ray of sunshine in the bleak weather.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
You are the one confused not me, you first speak of a Mighty God then an Almighty God then you say that they are one and the same
bernard (hug)


What is the name of the mighty God in the following scripture ?

Isaiah 10
20 On that day, what’s left of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who beat them. Instead, they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the holy one of Israel. 21 A few will return, what’s left of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22 Although your people, Israel, were like the sand of the sea, only a few survivors will return. The end is announced, overflowing with justice.

Regards

LeClerc


You realy do have a problem dont you?
Mighty God is not mentioned in that passage.

bernard (hug)


I have highlighted it in red for you, if you want the hebrew

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/10-21.htm

Now Bernie what is the name of the mighty God in the above scriptutre.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

You do have but still fail to recognise it, a problem, a problem shared by those who read scripture through a veil not having the mind or understanding of those who wrote.
A veil is drawn over the ruth of scripture by those who like to interpret it and as you can see for yourself the veil in the interpretation then you need to empty yourself of your false teachings and start over with the a mind that does not continualy look for answers in false teaching.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
You do have but still fail to recognise it, a problem, a problem shared by those who read scripture through a veil not having the mind or understanding of those who wrote.
A veil is drawn over the ruth of scripture by those who like to interpret it and as you can see for yourself the veil in the interpretation then you need to empty yourself of your false teachings and start over with the a mind that does not continualy look for answers in false teaching.

bernard (hug)


What is the name of the mighty God in the following scripture ?

Isaiah 10
20 On that day, what’s left of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who beat them. Instead, they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the holy one of Israel. 21 A few will return, what’s left of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22 Although your people, Israel, were like the sand of the sea, only a few survivors will return. The end is announced, overflowing with justice.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Do  know what the el you are asking?

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

Quote:
There are nonetheless seeming elements of "polytheism" in certain biblical books, such as God's reference to himself as "us" in Genesis 1:26 and 3:22, in Daniel's frequent use of the honorific "God of gods" and especially in the Psalms. Jewish scholars were aware of this, and expressed the opinion that although the verse can be understood wrongly, God was not afraid to write it in the Torah. However, the word God  in Hebrew ( Elohim ) is also a plural, meaning "powerful ones" or "rulers". This is true in Hebrew as well as other related Canaanite languages. So "Elohim" could refer to any number of "rulers", such as angels,

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Henotheism


As there was no capitalisation as such in the hebrew the absence of YHWH (while used in previous scripture) can leave you with a choice over mighty god, either, a god, or a pantheon of gods, either being under the instruction of Almighty YHWH the Father and creator.

One unaminous spirit leads to one accord,

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
There are nonetheless seeming elements of "polytheism" in certain biblical books, such as God's reference to himself as "us" in Genesis 1:26 and 3:22, in Daniel's frequent use of the honorific "God of gods" and especially in the Psalms. Jewish scholars were aware of this, and expressed the opinion that although the verse can be understood wrongly, God was not afraid to write it in the Torah. However, the word God  in Hebrew ( Elohim ) is also a plural, meaning "powerful ones" or "rulers". This is true in Hebrew as well as other related Canaanite languages. So "Elohim" could refer to any number of "rulers", such as angels,

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Henotheism


As there was no capitalisation as such in the hebrew the absence of YHWH (while used in previous scripture) can leave you with a choice over mighty god, either, a god, or a pantheon of gods, either being under the instruction of Almighty YHWH the Father and creator.

One unaminous spirit leads to one accord,

bernard (hug)


The word Elohim possesses a plural intensive syntax and is singular in meaning. In Hebrew, the suffix ים (im), mainly indicates a masculine plural. However with Elohim the construction is grammatically singular, (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective) when referring to the God of Israel, but grammatically plural elohim (i.e. taking a plural verb or adjective) when used of pagan divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7).

This is self-evident from the fact that the verb “created” בָּרָה (bara) in Genesis 1:1 is in the singular. This linguistic pattern is well known and widely used throughout the Jewish Scriptures. For example, many readers are familiar with the Hebrew word חַיִים (chayim), meaning “life.” Notice that this word contains the identical plural suffix “im,” as in Elohim, yet it repeatedly means “life”, in the singular, throughout the Bible.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

A life but many living, come on throw some reality into understanding.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
A life but many living, come on throw some reality into understanding.

bernard (hug)


I do believe Bernie you would post anything rather than believe the truth of YHWH Elohiym revealed by His Logos through the Tanakh and Messianic Writings, who became flesh and was given the name Y'shua and dwelt among the People of Israel, He was crucified, buried and after spending three days and nights in the heart of the earth took up His life again and is alive for evermore and through whom we have the gift of eternal life.

Quote:


"Lives" is used when speaking of more than one life.

So if you are speaking of multiple people each having a separate life, then you would use "lives". Such as "Days of Our Lives".

If you are speaking of one person but of the different personas they wear in their existence, then you would use "lives". Such as a person might have a personal life and a professional life, so you would be speaking of that person's lives.

If you are speaking of a group of people sharing the same experiences living as a group, then you would use "life". Such as "Our life at camp", because it refers to a group of campers and a group is a singular unit.



Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Quote:
If you are speaking of a group of people sharing the same experiences living as a group, then you would use "life". Such as "Our life at camp", because it refers to a group of campers and a group is a singular unit.


And so you take your first step towards understanding 'mighty God/god'

In the begining was life and that life was with god and life was god, the miltha has a 'encompasing' nature.


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
If you are speaking of a group of people sharing the same experiences living as a group, then you would use "life". Such as "Our life at camp", because it refers to a group of campers and a group is a singular unit.


And so you take your first step towards understanding 'mighty God/god'

In the begining was life and that life was with god and life was god, the miltha has a 'encompasing' nature.


bernard (hug)


So Bernie, that life, which as you have posted was God, was manifested.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Does creation have life?
Is life 'manifest' in creation?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Does creation have life?
Is life 'manifest' in creation?

bernard (hug)


Does the moon, which is part of creation, have life ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Does a dead duck have life?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Allo allo

bnabernard wrote:
Does a dead duck have life?

bernard (hug)


Ecclesiastes 11 God's Word Translation
5 Just as you don't know how the breath of life enters the limbs of a child within its mother's womb, you also don't understand how God, who made everything, works.

Regards

LeClerc
Rose

bnabernard wrote:
Does a dead duck have life?

bernard (hug)




After a bit it does, it starts turning into fertiliser  

Even the food waste bin shows signs of life in the summer if you don't keep the lid on tightly.

Everything decomposes and becomes part of something else.

That's why some people want a tree over them so they can become part of the blossom and life of the tree and loved ones remember them when they see it.

Or scatter ashes over the sea, or a favourite place.

They then become a part of it.

Everything natural is recyclable.

Apart from us, it works quite well! ( We mess up the balance)

We just mess it up and throw it out of kilter with all our rubbish and depletion of resources.

So yes, the dead duck does have life locked in it, of a sort.



Julie
bnabernard

Yes Julie, a cycle of life on a living planet, LC is I believe familiar with my stance on the cycle of life,the dust, the seed, the plant, the flesh, the dust, we can be looking at an empty field one day which becomes a flourishing field of veg, the veg converts the properties of the earth and air, we or an animal convert the veg into flesh, we cease to be a living being of flesh and return to the dust, so in some way the field moves arround and gets relocated. But dont worry there's a balance.

As for a living universe, well we will have to wait and see what LC has to say on that  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Julie and Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Yes Julie, a cycle of life on a living planet, LC is I believe familiar with my stance on the cycle of life,the dust, the seed, the plant, the flesh, the dust, we can be looking at an empty field one day which becomes a flourishing field of veg, the veg converts the properties of the earth and air, we or an animal convert the veg into flesh, we cease to be a living being of flesh and return to the dust, so in some way the field moves arround and gets relocated. But dont worry there's a balance.

As for a living universe, well we will have to wait and see what LC has to say on that  

bernard (hug)


From the following scripture what died ?

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/7-21.htm

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/7-22.htm

All flesh that had the breath of the Spirit of life.

Only YHWH has life in himself, all flesh that is living has the breath of YHWH. All flesh that is capable of life, without the breath of YHWH, is dead.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Allo allo

bnabernard wrote:
Does a dead duck have life?

bernard (hug)


Ecclesiastes 11 God's Word Translation
5 Just as you don't know how the breath of life enters the limbs of a child within its mother's womb, you also don't understand how God, who made everything, works.

Regards

LeClerc


Which is greaterin dimension, heaven or God?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Allo allo

bnabernard wrote:
Does a dead duck have life?

bernard (hug)


Ecclesiastes 11 God's Word Translation
5 Just as you don't know how the breath of life enters the limbs of a child within its mother's womb, you also don't understand how God, who made everything, works.

Regards

LeClerc


Which is greaterin dimension, heaven or God?

bernard (hug)


According to your understanding of God, is God able to become that which has dimension ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


bernard (hug)


Do you believe the following ?

John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

LeClerc
bnabernard

Would you say the truth is what is being looked for.

Lets examine the question again, our father that art in hevean, does this suggest that God has size and dimension lesser than hevean?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Would you say the truth is what is being looked for.

Lets examine the question again, our father that art in hevean, does this suggest that God has size and dimension lesser than hevean?

bernard (hug)


In order to answer that question, firstly, does God exist simultaneously in two realms, the uncreated realm and the created realm ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Fine, if you want to answer that question as well please continue with that and the question of our father that art in hevean.

Alternatively you can simply answer the question I asked a retain any other thoughts to yourself.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Fine, if you want to answer that question as well please continue with that and the question of our father that art in hevean.

Alternatively you can simply answer the question I asked a retain any other thoughts to yourself.

bernard (hug)


Okay Bernie, the heaven which you are referring too, is that heaven created or uncreated, if created, then which of the created heavens are you referring too ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Me refering? I'm quoteing and asking according to the quote,

that art in heavean, and my Father in heaven, (quoting Jesus)


So lets work with what Jesus said, Is the Father in heaven like it say's,?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Me refering? I'm quoteing and asking according to the quote,

that art in heavean, and my Father in heaven, (quoting Jesus)


So lets work with what Jesus said, Is the Father in heaven like it say's,?

bernard (hug)


So which heaven is Y'shua referring too ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Ok then if you don't know the answer thats ok.

So The Father has size and dimension as he exist 'in' this means something is greater than he is.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Ok then if you don't know the answer thats ok.

So The Father has size and dimension as he exist 'in' this means something is greater than he is.

bernard (hug)


Psalm 139
1 YHWH, you have probed me, and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I stand up,
you discern my inclinations from afar,
3 you scrutinize my daily activities.
You are so familiar with all my ways
4 that before I speak even a word, YHWH,
you know all about it already.
5 You have hemmed me in both behind and in front
and laid your hand on me.
6 Such wonderful knowledge is beyond me,
far too high for me to reach.

7 Where can I go to escape your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I climb up to heaven, you are there;
if I lie down in Sh’ol, you are there.


Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

So where was he?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So where was he?

bernard (hug)


John 3
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.


Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Oh well there we go again with people popping into and out of heaven, how big is this heaven place?

bernard (hug)
Leonard James

bnabernard wrote:
Oh well there we go again with people popping into and out of heaven, how big is this heaven place?

bernard (hug)


I can't wait to hear!  
bnabernard

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Oh well there we go again with people popping into and out of heaven, how big is this heaven place?

bernard (hug)


Don't you pay attention in Bible Study Bernie.

John 3
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

It appears not

Ecclesiastes 11 God's Word Translation
5 Just as you don't know how the breath of life enters the limbs of a child within its mother's womb, you also don't understand how God, who made everything, works.

Bernie, do you believe that Y'shua Ben Yosef from Natzeret is Israel's Messiah, the one which Moshe and the prophets wrote about ?

John 1
43 The next day, having decided to leave for the Galil, Yeshua found Philip and said, “Follow me!” 44 Philip was from Beit-Tzaidah, the town where Andrew and Kefa lived. 45 Philip found Natan’el and told him, “We’ve found the one that Moshe wrote about in the Torah, also the Prophets — it’s Yeshua Ben-Yosef from Natzeret!”

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

bnabernard wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


bernard (hug)


According to scripture how is God manifest in heaven ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


When you retire to your room and close the door, to pray to your Father in heaven, does not your Father in heaven see what takes place in secret in your room where you are ?

Matthew 6
6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. Your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Regards

LeClerc
Leonard James

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


When you retire to your room and close the door, to pray to your Father in heaven, does not your Father in heaven see what takes place in secret in your room where you are ?

Matthew 6
6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. Your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Regards

LeClerc


Which has nothing to do with the question asked.
bnabernard

What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?
Farmer Geddon

When this heaven arrives, where will it be.. according to Jesus?
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


YHWH is only bound by that which He chooses to be bound.

ie when He became flesh.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


YHWH is only bound by that which He chooses to be bound.

ie when He became flesh.

Regards

LeClerc


So are you saying that when he became flesh he was not almighty?
While he was flesh why did he refer to his father in heaven?
And to conclude is heaven greater than the father bearing in mind infinity?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?


YHWH is only bound by that which He chooses to be bound.

ie when He became flesh.

Regards

LeClerc


And to conclude is heaven greater than the father bearing in mind infinity?

bernard (hug)


To answer the final question first.

Do not the scriptures teach that the Set Apart Spirit is omnipresent ?

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Do not the scriptures teach that the Set Apart Spirit is omnipresent ?

Well now thats a good one, it's set apart, set apart from what?
Then if something is set apart how does it get to be omnipresent, it's either set apart, segregated in some way or it's not.

So let's see, it's set apart, how big is it now that it's set apart, and what is left remaining now that something has been set apart from it?

Come on, simply answer the original question and tell me

What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.

Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?

Waffle and evasion we could perhaps set apart.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Do not the scriptures teach that the Set Apart Spirit is omnipresent ?
bernard (hug)


Yes they do

Psalm 139
1 YHWH, you have probed me, and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I stand up,
you discern my inclinations from afar,
3 you scrutinize my daily activities.
You are so familiar with all my ways
4 that before I speak even a word, YHWH,
you know all about it already.
5 You have hemmed me in both behind and in front
and laid your hand on me.
6 Such wonderful knowledge is beyond me,
far too high for me to reach.

7 Where can I go to escape your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I climb up to heaven, you are there;
if I lie down in Sh’ol, you are there.


Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

So are you using scripture to make Jesus a liar?

Come on, simply answer the original question and tell me

What should we think then given that the prayer goes along the line of, our father that art in heaven, ?

And of course when Jesus relates to his father that is in heaven.


Should we conclude that God has a dimension, a size, is bound by limit?

Waffle and evasion we could perhaps set apart.

How are you doing with set apart spirit and as to what it is set apart from?

bernard  (hug)

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So are you using scripture to make Jesus a liar?

bernard (hug)


No Bernie.

Do you not know the Scriptures Bernie.

Does not Y'shua teach God is Spirit ?

John 4
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

You still fail to explain about the father being 'in' heaven?

Is heaven greater than the father bearing in mind infinity?


bernard (hug)
bnabernard

The Zhou people attributed Heaven with anthropomorphic attributes, evidenced in the etymology of the Chinese character for Heaven or sky, which originally depicted a person with a large cranium. Heaven is said to see, hear and watch over all men. Heaven is affected by man's doings, and having personality, is happy and angry with them. Heaven blesses those who please it and sends calamities upon those who offend it.[38] Heaven was also believed to transcend all other spirits and gods, with Confucius asserting, "He who offends against Heaven has none to whom he can pray."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven
Omnipresence

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