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Shaker

Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bishops

Described as a 'landmark vote'.

Quote:
Women bishops will be allowed in the Church in Wales following a landmark yes vote.

Bishops within the Church tabled a bill calling for the change and it was finally accepted by its governing body after a previous vote in 2008 narrowly failed.

There were huge cheers in the hall as the result was announced.

In England, the issue is due to be discussed again in November. Ireland and Scotland both allow female bishops.


Good job too. Well done all concerned England next, I'm sure of it.
Derek

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Shaker wrote:
Described as a 'landmark vote'.

Quote:
Women bishops will be allowed in the Church in Wales following a landmark yes vote.

Bishops within the Church tabled a bill calling for the change and it was finally accepted by its governing body after a previous vote in 2008 narrowly failed.

There were huge cheers in the hall as the result was announced.

In England, the issue is due to be discussed again in November. Ireland and Scotland both allow female bishops.


Good job too. Well done all concerned England next, I'm sure of it.


I don't understand. You are an atheist. Why would you care either way. Are you trying to annoy the Christian's here. It is a Church organisation's choice not God's choice. A bit like freemasons excluding women from their club the Church of Wales has invited woman into their club. As far as Christianity is concerned it is an irrelevance so your attempt to upset Christian's for no good reason has failed.
Lexilogio

This is good news.
trentvoyager

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Ralph2 wrote:
Shaker wrote:
Described as a 'landmark vote'.

Quote:
Women bishops will be allowed in the Church in Wales following a landmark yes vote.

Bishops within the Church tabled a bill calling for the change and it was finally accepted by its governing body after a previous vote in 2008 narrowly failed.

There were huge cheers in the hall as the result was announced.

In England, the issue is due to be discussed again in November. Ireland and Scotland both allow female bishops.


Good job too. Well done all concerned England next, I'm sure of it.


I don't understand. You are an atheist. Why would you care either way. Are you trying to annoy the Christian's here. It is a Church organisation's choice not God's choice. A bit like freemasons excluding women from their club the Church of Wales has invited woman into their club. As far as Christianity is concerned it is an irrelevance so your attempt to upset Christian's for no good reason has failed.


Well you don't have to approve of an organisation to recognise a move towards greater equality do you?

I mean I don't approve of the Tory party - but I recognise it is moving towards having more female MP's and that is a good thing.

And I don't see why it would upset Christians? In fact does it - I'm off to set up a poll.......
Lexilogio

Mary and Martha. Jesus said it was entirely reasonable for a woman to sit and listen to his teachings like the disciples. So it is entirely reasonable for a woman to be a Bishop. The question is whether the person is up to the job, not whether they are male or female.
Shaker

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Ralph2 wrote:
I don't understand.

It's the default setting, it seems.
Quote:
You are an atheist.

Indeed, yes.
Quote:
Why would you care either way.

Because I like to see freedom and equality reign and I particularly like to see it in those old-fashioned, backward-thinking, sclerotic, hidebound places, several decades if not centuries behind the rest of us, which find it the most difficult and which practice it the least. They have so very much more catching up to do, after all. I don't need to be directly and personally involved to feel what the Buddhists call mudita (which is to say, vicarious, sympathetic or even empathetic joy on behalf of another person and their good fortune): what an arid and impoverished existence that would be. Trent said exactly the same thing earlier:

trentvoyager wrote:
Well you don't have to approve of an organisation to recognise a move towards greater equality do you?

I mean I don't approve of the Tory party - but I recognise it is moving towards having more female MP's and that is a good thing.


For example, if people in another country far away experience joy, peace and prosperity - perhaps in throwing off the shackles of an oppressive tyrant or something of that kind - I'm still capable of experiencing great relief and happiness for them on their behalf despite never having been to that country, never likely to be going there and knowing nobody in that nation. It's a very basic human thing, the ability to empathise, to put yourself imaginatively into somebody else's shoes and imagine how you would feel if you were them. Probably most people have it; some don't. There are those of us - I'm one of them - who regard that capacity as the basic foundation and wellspring of what we regard as a moral sense.  

*

Ralph2 wrote:
Are you trying to annoy the Christian's here.

The Christian's what?

If you meant Christians [sic], then yes, at least some of them, yes. Some of them need it. I refer specifically to those who derogate others as
Ralph2 wrote:
not representatives of a Christian


whereas

Ralph2 wrote:
I am.


That sort of unctuous, self-satisfied, smug, complacent arrogance needs to be upset on a regular basis, as far as I'm concerned. According to your book Jesus himself had something to say along these lines, in Matthew 7:20-23.

*
Quote:
It is a Church organisation's choice not God's choice. A bit like freemasons excluding women from their club the Church of Wales has invited woman into their club. As far as Christianity is concerned it is an irrelevance so your attempt to upset Christian's for no good reason has failed.

Very clearly not  
Jim

Wot's a bishop?


(sidles quietly out of room.....)
Ketty

Jim wrote:
Wot's a bishop?


(sidles quietly out of room.....)


Nods sagely in agreement and quietly follows Jim.  

But it will be interesting to observe how the rest of this particular denomination works it all out.  I'm pleased for the women who desire the position of Bishop.  I'm sad for those for whom it's problematic.
Derek

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Shaker

Ralph2 wrote:
I don't understand.
It's the default setting, it seems.


Yes, but only with your post.
Quote:

Quote:
You are an atheist.


Indeed, yes.


Then why bother yourself with things that should not concern you? Unless you enjoy ruffling people's feathers.
Quote:

Quote:
Why would you care either way.

Because I like to see freedom and equality reign and I particularly like to see it in those old-fashioned, backward-thinking, sclerotic, hidebound places, several decades if not centuries behind the rest of us, which find it the most difficult and which practice it the least. I don't need to be directly and personally involved to feel what the Buddhists call

No you don't. Those are your opinions. Listening to Lexi's very interesting journey around the churches I would be inclined to say you are wrong.

Quote:
Quote:
Are you trying to annoy the Christian's here.

The Christian's what?

If you meant Christians [sic], then yes, at least some of them, yes. Some of them need it. I refer specifically to those who derogate others as
Quote:
not representatives of a Christian


Do not feel that your comments effect me and my congregation of one, who is a man, me, there are no women priest in my church. I do believe that there is scripture that forbids it but to be honest I do not have a clue. If these organisations what women as priests, or what ever, then I could not care less. No what intrigue me is simply why. Why you found it necessary to start a thread about religion and yet do not believe in any kind of divinity. I suppose I could also ask why you start a religious forum yet clearly have no belief in God. Is it because you think that you can discredit them. Discredit God. I don't think so. Many have tried but all have failed.

Quote:
Quote:
It is a Church organisation's choice not God's choice. A bit like freemasons excluding women from their club the Church of Wales has invited woman into their club. As far as Christianity is concerned it is an irrelevance so your attempt to upset Christian's for no good reason has failed.

Very clearly not  


Well it seems clear to me that you not only fall in your attempts to discredit Christianity but you fail miserably . If, according to you, I am boarding illiteracy, then how come I noticed it straight away. What do you think the clever ones think of your attempts to bring contention to a debating forum. You have a habit of demonstrating exactly why you are all about land it ain'good.
Ketty

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Ralph2 wrote:
. . . there are no women priest in my church.


What church is that "Ralph"?
trentvoyager

Quote:
I do believe that there is scripture that forbids it but to be honest I do not have a clue.


Hmmmm....that's not really a very helpful sentence.
Shaker

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Ralph2 wrote:
Then why bother yourself with things that should not concern you?

Equal rights - including but not limited to the status of women in my society - does concern me. The society in which I live is my business.

Quote:
Unless you enjoy ruffling people's feathers.

Goodness me, I've always loved that!

Quote:
Those are your opinions.

Well spotted.
Quote:
Listening to Lexi's very interesting journey around the churches I would be inclined to say you are wrong.

I don't even know to what this refers.
Quote:
Do not feel that your comments effect me and my congregation of one, who is a man, me, there are no women priest in my church. I do believe that there is scripture that forbids it but to be honest I do not have a clue.

Well, yes, we knew as much already.

Quote:
If these organisations what women as priests, or what ever, then I could not care less. No what intrigue me is simply why. Why you found it necessary to start a thread about religion and yet do not believe in any kind of divinity.

See my first answer in this post, above:

Shaker wrote:
Equal rights - including but not limited to the status of women in my society - does concern me. The society in which I live is my business


*
Ralph2 wrote:
I suppose I could also ask why you start a religious forum yet clearly have no belief in God. Is it because you think that you can discredit them.

No; this forum was set up, very hurriedly, by me, when its predecessor, No Greater Love, of which I had been a member for a long time, was summarily shut down in August 2008. I did so to keep together the small band of friends I'd made in several years past and whose virtual company I enjoyed. I knew next to nothing about the nuts and bolts of forums in those days and can't say that I know a huge amount more these days: nevertheless, it was one of the best things I've ever done and something of which I'm very proud.

Quote:
Well it seems clear to me that you not only fall in your attempts to discredit Christianity but you fail miserably . If, according to you, I am boarding illiteracy, then how come I noticed it straight away.

I don't believe you have.
Derek

trentvoyager wrote:
Quote:
I do believe that there is scripture that forbids it but to be honest I do not have a clue.


Hmmmm....that's not really a very helpful sentence.


Are you just having problems reading my post or do you just have problems reading. I cannot really put it any clearer for you. Perhaps you should stop reading my post and then answering them as if you have a problem reading. Or perhaps you should stop being vindictive.
trentvoyager

Ralph2 wrote:
trentvoyager wrote:
Quote:
I do believe that there is scripture that forbids it but to be honest I do not have a clue.


Hmmmm....that's not really a very helpful sentence.


Are you just having problems reading my post or do you just have problems reading. I cannot really put it any clearer for you. Perhaps you should stop reading my post and then answering them as if you have a problem reading. Or perhaps you should stop being vindictive.


Oh come off it Ralph, look at what you typed - you are contradicting yourself within the space of one sentence.

It adds nothing to helping me to understand what you are trying to say.
Lexilogio

Jim wrote:
Wot's a bishop?


(sidles quietly out of room.....)


Now that all depends on which religion...
Jim

Er....
Chess?
Ketty

Re: Governing Body of Church of Wales votes for female bisho

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
. . . there are no women priest in my church.


What church is that "Ralph"?


Ralph2 wrote:

Do not feel that your comments effect me and my congregation of one, who is a man, me,


Oh, so in the sense that most folk understand it then, you are un-churched.  So to be more open and honest, there are no priests at all simply because you are un-churched.  Are you interested enough, or desire it enough, to do something about that?  If there's a will, I'm sure you can find some sort of religious establishment to keep you company.  

As an aside, and being as we're chatting mainly about Christianity, I would advise any Christian to read God's* word around all of that, and to seek fellowship as He* advises and certainly so that they can share in the Lord's* supper.  I personally do not know any brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus* who do not feel that need because it's prompted by the Holy Spirit*.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Jim

Agreed, Ketty.
It should be innate in every Christian to associate with other believers.
That's part of what's bothering me in the CofS situation.
If I DO decide to leave, where could I go?
The only Christian churches in my town are an extremely exclusive Plymouth Bretern, a slightly less exclusive fellowship which lacks joy, and an R.C. church.
( the wtbts lot don't count!).
Yet were I to leave, I would have to choose one of these. I simply could not countenance NOT belonging to a body of believers.
It's unscriptural for starters!
Derek

Trenvoyager

You are picking me up on an irrelevance. Questioning this only takes us away from the topic being debated. But here goes anyway.

I said that I do believe there are scriptures that forbid it. "I Believe" I am not certain as I have never seen the scripture that states that it is forbidden for women to act within the priesthood. I was told by a friend.

"But to be honest I don't have a clue" I do not know if that claim is true as I have never, to my knowledge, read it.

1. I believe that a scripture exists

2. I have never seen that scripture or have a clue where it is, if it exists.

Nothing contradictory there. What you are doing, imo, is to try and discredit my ability to give an honest opinion by analysing my words looking for trivial errors. You do it for two reasons.

1. You find me a know all who threatens your opinions here. Because of that you simply do not like me.

2. As humans we like to be a part of a group with whom we can associate. Hence the need for religious organisations. A group like Ketty, Shaker, Floo and yourself. You will do things like this to solidify your membership as one of the group instead of being yourself.
Quote:

It adds nothing to helping me to understand what you are trying to say
.

I believe that you know exactly what I am saying but you are just being awkward.
trentvoyager

Quote:
I believe that you know exactly what I am saying but you are just being awkward.



I'm really not - but I'm not prepared to argue the toss with you anymore. If you want to write clearly contradictory sentences I'll leave you to it. I have better things to do with my time than to try and understand your convoluted use of English.

You're not related to Sass by any chance?

I'll leave you to post in peace.
gone

EXCELLENT NEWS!
Derek

Jim wrote:
Agreed, Ketty.
It should be innate in every Christian to associate with other believers.
That's part of what's bothering me in the CofS situation.
If I DO decide to leave, where could I go?
The only Christian churches in my town are an extremely exclusive Plymouth Bretern, a slightly less exclusive fellowship which lacks joy, and an R.C. church.
( the wtbts lot don't count!).
Yet were I to leave, I would have to choose one of these. I simply could not countenance NOT belonging to a body of believers.
It's unscriptural for starters!


Where is it unscriptural not to belong to a body of believers. Jesus said that where ever two or three are gathered in my name I shall be in the midst. He did not say that we should build a church in his name and find a learned man to interpret scripture for us. Not that people shouldn't meet together, who are of like mind or for people who are disillusioned my man to avoid such a scenario.

Well, I believe that these are the scriptures forbidding women to act in the church.

Bible Prohibitions

Much of the opposition to women in ministry is based on these two passages:

As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (NIV, 1 Timothy 2:11-12
gone

   
Jim

Who mentioned anything about buildings, Ralph?
If the lot of them were burned to the ground, that wouldn't affect the church - the people of God.
Read Acts.
Read the Pauline epistles.
Constant references to believers gathered together for worship, work or witness.
Constant exhortations to gather together and remain together...after Pentecost and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ( God in action.)

Or read the Didache; written around the same time as John's Revelation and part of Scripture for two centuries.
Probably rejected over uncertain authorship and being too 'Jewish', it shows the first century Church in action (and gives the first totally complete version of what we now know as "The Lord's Prayer")

From its' very inception, the church - the people of God - met TOGETHER.

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