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bnabernard

holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Here you go then, in the blue corner the Holy Spirit, and in the red corner the spirit of holiness.
How do they differ?


Get it on.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

The first is a person, part of the tri-unity which is God, Parakletos, empowering, indwelling, life-changing.

The second is an atmosphere, or effect, or aspiration, to engender the 'otherness' in worship and everyday life.
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Quote:
The first is a person, part of the tri-unity which is God, Parakletos, empowering, indwelling, life-changing.
So would you say that the Holy spirit can be in only one place at a time on account of it being ''one person''?

Quote:
The second is an atmosphere, or effect, or aspiration, to engender the 'otherness' in worship and everyday life.
[/quote]

Would you say this spirit is not neccessarily anything to do with God, that any ''holy man'' of any faith has the same spirit as the next?



bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Since the Holy Spirit is God, bernie, would you say that God is limited to one place and time?
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Jim wrote:
Since the Holy Spirit is God, bernie, would you say that God is limited to one place and time?


Would this mean that the indwelling of God makes the person God dwells in, God?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Not really;
If I ate a Macdonald's, would it indwell me, making me a Big Mac?
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Jim wrote:
Not really;
If I ate a Macdonald's, would it indwell me, making me a Big Mac?


thats how you grow, the big mac becomes you, you and the big mac become one. you may not take on the appearance of a big mac but you are one,

A long time ago I asked the difference between a mud hut and a man, the seed breaks down the mud and the mud becomes the plant and the plant is eaten and becomes the man, or is eaten by the animal and the animal is eaten by the man.
So one day you might be leaning on a fence looking at a ploughed field that will eventualy become part of you.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

"That's how you grow..."
Yep; you got that bit right, bernie.
When the Holy Spirit fills you with His power, gudes you where He knows you need to be, leads you to those who need to hear the message, and lets your mind feel the touch of eternity, then I guess you're starting to grow up to be a child of God.
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Jim wrote:
"That's how you grow..."
Yep; you got that bit right, bernie.
When the Holy Spirit fills you with His power, gudes you where He knows you need to be, leads you to those who need to hear the message, and lets your mind feel the touch of eternity, then I guess you're starting to grow up to be a child of God.


And you become God?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Absolutely not!
Let's say, bernie, that, in accepting the gift of the Holy Spirit - and it is ours to accept or reject Him, we become more of what God wants us to be.
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Jim wrote:
Absolutely not!
Let's say, bernie, that, in accepting the gift of the Holy Spirit - and it is ours to accept or reject Him, we become more of what God wants us to be.


Whoa there Jim, lets get this straight, you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and you say the Holy Spirit is God.

1+1 Jim + God, You are Jim and God, if I bump into you in the street I am bumping into Jim and God. I come into the presence of God when I come into your presence.
You will rubber stamp the presence of God in you by speaking in a tongue that I can't understand, I will be in awe and may exxclaim, JIM! GOD! and bend a knee.
Is that right, the presence of God, I've searched and now I've found, Can I let the moment go, shall I cherish each moment with you, will God speak to me now?

Indwelt by GOD can mean only one thing, and practiced by the Pope when he speaks for GOD, Pope plus GOD.

In the case of the Pope he relates Gods wishes and laws, and understands what is said, in the case of an indwelling where a person speaks in tongue, none know what is said.

I'm sorry Jim but like it or not, if you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, GOD, and I am not, then in my inferior status I must recognise you as Lord of me and God of me.
Is that not right?

bernard (hug)
Jim

I am no more God than you are, bernie; nor could I, or any other, hope to even think of aspiring to such a status.
Yet when God enters our life we do not become God, but relate to God in a very profound, very special and utterly amazing way.
We become God's children - by adoption, (see John 1:12), and can confidently expect our Father's love, peace, strength and unique promises to be fulfilled in us.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
I am no more God than you are, bernie; nor could I, or any other, hope to even think of aspiring to such a status.
Yet when God enters our life we do not become God, but relate to God in a very profound, very special and utterly amazing way.
We become God's children - by adoption, (see John 1:12), and can confidently expect our Father's love, peace, strength and unique promises to be fulfilled in us.


Then can we agree that you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit aka GOD. and progress from there.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Nope.
We don't agree.
Check out the fruits of the Spirit,in Galatians, and the Gifts of the Spirit - in 1 Corinthians; evidence of God the Holy Spirit at work in those who accept Him.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Nope.
We don't agree.
Check out the fruits of the Spirit,in Galatians, and the Gifts of the Spirit - in 1 Corinthians; evidence of God the Holy Spirit at work in those who accept Him.


I don't get it, on the one hand you point me in the direction of texts that you feel will confirm that the Holy Spirit is indwelling you, God is indwelling you, then on the other hand you speak as though God is not indwelling you.

You speak in tongues, this is not you giving the brain instruction and operating the voice box, not your brain composing the words, in fact it's said that when you don't know what to say in prayer you allow the Holy Spirit that is indwelling you to take command and say the prayer, and though you have no idea of what the prayer is about you feel uplifted by the experience.

God (the Holy Spirit) has prayed to Himself and you don't know what it was about but you got to feel nice about it.

God prays to God, no one knows what He says to Himself, the closest this come to the God of Abraham and the Jew is in the ol''never mind the quality feel the width''.

I'll give an example of being indwelt, Moses is told by God to speak to the rock and water will flow, Moses strikes the rock and water flows, now theres God at work.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

One down six to go.

Or does God have seven spirits?
bnabernard

Well James regarding the Holy Spirit there is the contention among christian belief that this spirit is part of a triune arrangement and that it is God, That this Holy Spirit is a He, and the contention continues that He (GOD the Holy Spirit) indwells people, Jim ( the other Jim) is trying to convince me that God indwells him, that he is both Jim and God.

However when it come to having God inside him Jim seems to not want to say he does, he wants to draw attention to Gifts of the spirit, and among these gifts is to be able to be the vesssle that God speaks to Himself through. Jim don't know what it is Gods says when He is talking to Himself but he does want us to know it gives him a lovely feeling of peace.

There does from my point of view seem to be cocking  a deaf'n to angels of light and the deceptive nature of spirits.

fortunate that the many active spirits still think man is there to serve them and won't accept that God expects them to serve man, and to be candid  not concealed.

There should be some understanding gleemed from the spirits of holiness that represent themselves as holy and guide false religions, and indeed indwell the person, foriegn gods man gods Dali's an abundance of spirits of holiness that are not of God.
As for gifts, then the title Pope has been there a lot longer, and there is a station denied by the modern christian. they'll accept their own indwelling be see it as false by one of the ringleaders.  

It's a shame this indwelling was not a bit more positive when the councills sat to canon scriture for the new test.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

I find the human mind is unable to reason on the matter, and the clergy have only added to the confusion by trying to explain the unexplainable.

The bible clearly says what God's spirit is and how some humans are anointed with it and some humans work in such a way as to receive it.

Only one group as far as I know are able to determine the difference between the spirit of truth and the one of error.

That group is the one that has become so familiar with scripture that like Jesus they can say to the spirit of error go away Satan IT IS WRITTEN.

Matthew 4:3, 4
The Tempter came and said to him: If you are a son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread. But in reply he said: t is written, Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah’s mouth.
bnabernard

Well what is there to say of being indwelt this mourning, on the outside Jim is Jim, but on the inside he is born again in the spirit, Have I got that right.?
The son of God, on the outside flesh, on the inside spirit? Just like Jim.

Yet Jim does not recognise himself as God while he recognises Jeshuah/Jesus as God, and when Thomas came to Yeshuah he said of him that he was his lord and his God, Is one indwelt by the Holy spirit not better, aka lord of us, and if the Holy Spirit of God is inside him is there not the presence of God, do we not recognise Gods presence?

Jim like Yeshuah does not claim to be God, he emphaticaly denies he is God, however he will in another breath say that Yeshuah/Jesus IS God.

Moses had the backing of God, he was made as God to Pharoah and performed miraculous deeds in Gods name on one occasion striking a rock and making water flow, a discision he had taken upon himself in a momant of anger when his instruction from God was to speak to the stone.

Will the indwelling of the Holy Spirit continue in a bad vien as it announces that Yeshuah/Jesus is God while denying that flesh cannot be God?

Who are the sons of God and who is the son of God?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Their biggest problem Bernie, that the early Christians brought on themselves was they could only have one God, not one explained to them that that did not others were not to be called gods, or were god like,

With the entrance of many weed Christians by the time of Constantine, and the effort to mix and match a number of religions the matter was made even worse, because Constantine insisted they all agree or else. Now we have inherited the problem of the church saying we have had tradition for so long, that change is not practical for them.  

What they mean is God has put up with the way we are for so long that he obviously is not bothered, what they, and many coming here have missed is the day when God is to set matters strait, then those that stay stuck in the mud will be allowed to be swallowed up at the end of the system if they do not hear the reproofs of his prophets for today.

The upshot of it all of that is culminating in the fact that there are some called gods, but to the Christian there is only one “Almighty God” Jesus Father.

So if you belong to a religion that can not change you must follow the advice that the Almighty God give to humans here>>>>>>

Revelation 18:4-8
I heard another voice out of heaven say:

Get out of her, my people,

if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning. That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.
bnabernard

I think I see what you say James, in some way people have got cativated by the spirit of holiness, all religions have this spirit of holiness, the desire to have something to worship, something to be holy, a target a goal, and it's this very indwelt desire for something considered as holy that leads people to be mislead if there is sufficient input to develop an air of holines, perhaps a budhist monk or simuler, perhaps a native tribe of american indians, no need to paint a picture, but once we get closer to home then we have the pope and the vicars and the evangelist, some more in the spirit of holiness than others, but wherever you look a created holiness and as it is not according to the worship of the true God it falls short of the target and is littered with ear tickling words of mans wisdom rather than the word of God that leads to life.

It's not that suprising as soon as the son had completed his mission the agents who rebeled against the true God sought to take advantage of their disadvantage, to use the son against the Father and against his own word and purpose while coating it in a glossary of rightious holiness.

Enter Saul/Paul who would facilitate such a glossary.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Paul was not a perfect man the same as all men but all he needed was pointing in the right direction and he would be whole soiled in his endeavours.

A man so well versed in the prophets all he needed was the true messiah pointing out to him and he by means of holy spirit could switch into top gear, he already had the zeal all he needed was the direction in which to point it.

It is normally women that get paranoid over Paul not usually blokes, bloke are normally paranoid over most scripture.

Have you tried this little story>>>

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/brunel/A12744948
gone

JamesJah wrote:
Paul was not a perfect man the same as all men but all he needed was pointing in the right direction and he would be whole soiled in his endeavours.

A man so well versed in the prophets all he needed was the true messiah pointing out to him and he by means of holy spirit could switch into top gear, he already had the zeal all he needed was the direction in which to point it.

It is normally women that get paranoid over Paul not usually blokes, bloke are normally paranoid over most scripture.

Have you tried this little story>>>

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/brunel/A12744948


I would have liked to have spent a few minutes with that guy Paul, he would have been singing on a higher note when I had finished with him.    
bnabernard

Hi James, the chinese  

They're close, pre flood the sons of the fallen angels took to eating meat, they had not spent time among God and had no foreknowledge of what was to be or the proper station of the spirit, and this can be interpreted as a form of amnesia, what little they learnt from their fathers was scant to the complete knowledge, God to them was a mystery whereas power was not, it is what they had and it gave them superiority over man and beast.

Post flood the spirits had no flesh of their own and therefore mobility was achieved through inhabiting were it could, what it could, hence we move into the area of anamalistic gods as the spirits made temporary homes in the beasts.
Enter not the dragon    but enter the Jantist (of tthe indus vallley) who will not even kill an insect lest it be a relative. Enter the teaching of re-incarnation as spirit had to move into new dwellings.

For the chinese respect is given for their ancestors and strength according to the form they adopted, the parts of the animal kingdom that they adopted as their temporary homes, and enter the eating of meat by those who would not forego what they had known pre flood.

Quite a lot can be learnt from false religion as they give us insights into the spirit world.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Quote:
Quite a lot can be learnt from false religion as they give us insights into the spirit world.

bernard (hug)


Quite a lot can be learnt from actors as they would bne quite happy to reproduce the Devil on the stage, ever wondered where the Chinese dragon came from?

I bet you did not know the Catholic Church in China is one of the only building that is not full of idols, images and icons, the reason if they did the Chinese people would not be able to tell that the Catholic religion was a different religion from what they had already got. [/quote]
gone

Quite a lot can be learnt from false religion as they give us insights into the spirit world.

Eh?
Jim

Willow;
Seconded.
In bucketloads...
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Willow;
Seconded.
In bucketloads...


Jim, you suprise me, is nothing comming through to you from the indwelling spirit ??

Therein Jim lies the problem, one needs to be able to recognise their enemies.

However having said that, lets perhaps in a way contradict it,
If we have to go into the field and gather up the weeds and burn them before the harvest then, as there are diverse weeds it's better to start by recognising the wheat which is to be harvested, now having become familiar with the wheat one can pull up anything that is not wheat and one can be sure of the fine harvest.
However that is for the harvester who knows the appearance of wheat.
In the field however some of the wheat is entangled with the weed and unless it knows the weed and its source it will continue to be entangled and brought to nothing by the weed.

It's sad when the weed convinces that it is in fact wheat, but not suprising that the weed wants to posses the field.

Which reminds me, must get out in the garden  

bernard (hug)
Jim

Bernie;
I happen to be a child of the best gardener in the business (See John 15), and I'm totally confident in that gardener's ability to work out for Himself who are weeds and who are not.
I have no authority to judge, neither do I want it.

The Holy Spirit, acting as advocate/guide/comforter and teacher, will lead those who trust Him to whoever He has prepared to receive Himself.
That's what He's promised.
JamesJah

Only those doing the will of my father will.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

Matthew 7:24
Therefore everyone that hears these sayings of mine and does them will be likened to a discreet man, who built his house upon the rock-mass.
bnabernard

Re: holy spirit v spirit of holiness?

Jim wrote:
The first is a person, part of the tri-unity which is God, Parakletos, empowering, indwelling, life-changing.

The second is an atmosphere, or effect, or aspiration, to engender the 'otherness' in worship and everyday life.


Definition
 summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

So Jim if we return to your first definition which refers to the triunity and the Holy spirit which indwells you, and in turn by reason of the trinity claim said Holy spirit to be God, (yet is denied when you argue that God is not part of you)

How would you describe this indwelling divinity while at the same time disclaim being indwelt by God.

Are you certain that you are not captured in the moment of a spirit of holiness, and if so do you trust this spirit of holiness when you cannot understand it's tongue and have to trust that whoever translates actualy translates correctly, who fools who in this world of spirit and tongue?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Yes, bernie, I'm completely certain that I am not caught up in the spirit of holiness.
All who accept Christ as Lord and Saviour can be completely confident of the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit in their lives. If you doubt this, read the book of Acts again. Apart from chapters 1-3 dealing with the events of before and during Pentecost, there are at least twenty-six instances of people being filled/anointed with the Holy Spirit. I think I've missed a few, though. I'll go back and check if yoyu like.
Being 'filled with the Spirit' was, and is, no temporary phenomenom. As far as I can see, the only way to end the relationship is to reject, recant or blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
Incidentally, that last statement is one of the proofs of the Spirit being God.
You can't blaspheme against a church, a mountain, an electric force - only against a person: In this case, The Person of God the Holy Spirit.
JamesJah

How did the angel in Revelation chapter one, communicate with John,  and who told him what to communicate?
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Yes, bernie, I'm completely certain that I am not caught up in the spirit of holiness.
All who accept Christ as Lord and Saviour can be completely confident of the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit in their lives. If you doubt this, read the book of Acts again. Apart from chapters 1-3 dealing with the events of before and during Pentecost, there are at least twenty-six instances of people being filled/anointed with the Holy Spirit. I think I've missed a few, though. I'll go back and check if yoyu like.
Being 'filled with the Spirit' was, and is, no temporary phenomenom. As far as I can see, the only way to end the relationship is to reject, recant or blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
Incidentally, that last statement is one of the proofs of the Spirit being God.
You can't blaspheme against a church, a mountain, an electric force - only against a person: In this case, The Person of God the Holy Spirit.


Have you considered that by praying in a tongue that you do not understand that you do not know whether you are blaspheming without even knowing?
fine you get a nice warm feeling but then again have you considered just why, ?
Consider what the son of God said when asked how we should pray, was there a certain way of things, did he say there are a few I've left out but you can add them to suit yourself, and did he mention that it would be good to speak in a tongue that you don't understand.?

Feeling good, not half there's a spirit having a nice time getting his way??
To attribute to the Holy Spirit things that are not of the Holy Spirit is in itself a blasphemy against it.

bernard (hug)
Jim

A nice warm feeling?
Bernie, why is it that, as soon as someone talks about being filled with the Holy Spirit, the reader always homes in on tongues?
I use tongues in my personal prayer time; I am not in a hypnotic, or trancindental state. In fact, if you read Romans 8, you'll see it should be a natural part of deep prayer; or, in 1 Cor, Paul, while quite rightly warning those who put spiritual gifts before doctrine, and love in particular, nevertheless wishes that all had the gift, which they obviously did not.
There is more - much more - to being filled with the Spirit than speaking in tongues. God gives His Spirit for a purpose, and that purpose may be different for each individual. We shouldn't boast about it - quite the contrary; we should treeat it as a natural part of the plan the Lord has for us.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
A nice warm feeling?
Bernie, why is it that, as soon as someone talks about being filled with the Holy Spirit, the reader always homes in on tongues?
I use tongues in my personal prayer time; I am not in a hypnotic, or trancindental state. In fact, if you read Romans 8, you'll see it should be a natural part of deep prayer; or, in 1 Cor, Paul, while quite rightly warning those who put spiritual gifts before doctrine, and love in particular, nevertheless wishes that all had the gift, which they obviously did not.
There is more - much more - to being filled with the Spirit than speaking in tongues. God gives His Spirit for a purpose, and that purpose may be different for each individual. We shouldn't boast about it - quite the contrary; we should treeat it as a natural part of the plan the Lord has for us.


So Jim, having the teaching of Yeshuah/Jesus (who you call God) regarding 'How' to pray, you will ignore that to venture into something you do not and cannot understand despite the warnings of misleading spirits?

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

Quote:
A nice warm feeling?
Bernie, why is it that, as soon as someone talks about being filled with the Holy Spirit, the reader always homes in on tongues?


Well Jim as you can see there is good reason to home in on tongues, but not only tongues, which were of course meant for communicating across the language barriers rather than to be indiscernible garble.

The spirits should always be tested, even when healing is involved, the casting out's, any spirit in action needs to be tested and held alongside the plumb-line of Gods word.

There are many who speak in tongue, cast out demons and practice healing and do so in the name of Jesus. However if he were to be present he would take a cord to them for the way they carry on but not them the spirits that mislead them.

The spirits work in unison to corrupt the mind by the appearance of good works.

Don't be mislead Jim speak to God in the way directed by the Son who urges you to speak to The Father and Hallow His name YHWH/Jehovah in English, and whatever it is in Scotland.

Have your mind set in the right direction when you Pray, Our Father. don't be led up an alley.

Believe me Jim, if you come to understand the truth of the matter you will understand how little you know despite your history of learning, You also will loose a lot of friends and enjoy plenty of discomfort from the spirits who can no longer toy with you.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Bernie;
Can you show me any passage in scripture which tells me that I am not following, or have departed from, the teachings of Yeshua/Jesus, who is indeed God Incarnate?
The same Yeshua who specifically promises His Holy Spirit as 'parakletos' , teacher, guide, leader, helper?
The same Jesus who promises that we will be filled with power when the Holy Spirit is come upon us ( Acts 1:8 - incidentally, the scripture which led me to Christ thirty-odd years ago )?
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Bernie;
Can you show me any passage in scripture which tells me that I am not following, or have departed from, the teachings of Yeshua/Jesus, who is indeed God Incarnate?
The same Yeshua who specifically promises His Holy Spirit as 'parakletos' , teacher, guide, leader, helper?
The same Jesus who promises that we will be filled with power when the Holy Spirit is come upon us ( Acts 1:8 - incidentally, the scripture which led me to Christ thirty-odd years ago )?


For you the important part is your version of how one should pray, nowhere is it said that you will not understand what you pray for.
And if you have a run through of the prayer that was given as an example it will tell you of what was exceptable, if there is an agenda with prayer why, for what reason would you not understand what you pray for.
Then you might say that the HS is praying for you and you need not know, more confusion!
If the HS brings the gifts what need is there for the HS to ask himself, can you not see the daft context of what you suggest??
There can be only one reason for you not understanding the tongue that you speak in and that is because if you did you would not like what you hear.

What you have been promised is help in understanding, not a promise of confusion.

Now if I have a word to say it will be against the NT and Saul/Paul, another who was led up the garden path by a false spirit.

Yourself and other christians have this faith in the HS yet te greater number feel fit to create new light and deny the old church, which itself was built on the flag waving banner of the HS.

What you have today in new fangled tongues etc, is the spirits at large creating a diversion to keep a grip on people who might have slipped through their fingers/net. the net in the network of doctrines they had built following the ascention of the son.

Be free of the hooks in your mouth Jim, deliver yourself out of the clutches of the misleading spirits, and as they say Get out of her, her days are numbered and her inhabitants with her.


However as you and so many others are so deeply entangled and fear being different I am certain you will not even consider the truth that is being revealed in the last days of this system where the spirits are in denial of their judgement.


Try the prayer in the manner I suggested and see if it don't stick in your throat as you try focusing on the creator, the Father, the one true God YHWH/Jehovah.

I had a cousin who spoke in tongues, in fact having a large (very large) family there are a good number among them who speak in tongue, and I have been myself along to an alpha course when an member of my 'extended' family was found to be epileptic, just to see and feel this HS that you speak of at work,
It goes without saying that I did not witness the HS at work but I did witness a lot of enthusiasm and a desire to be like the them, for my part it was dark and evil with fancy dressing.
I was amused by this particuler cousin who would not go to his new church (when his local closed) as they were overly charismatic, whatever next  

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Jim what do you think this scripture can teach us?

Acts 18:24-27
Now a certain Jew named Apollo’s, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Ephesus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures.
This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John.

This [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him.

Further, because he was desiring to go across into Achaia, the brothers wrote the disciples, exhorting them to receive him kindly.
Jim

bernie;
Sorry; you misunderstand my use of tongues. I do not babble like pagans - which the Lord specifically tells us not to do; yet when I am in deep prayer, yet cannot utter the words I want to say, whether they are words of praise - or anguish - tongues have bridged the gap. When it comes to intercessory prayer, though,or praying through a scripture or set of notes I'm preparing for a service, I can assure you that I'm perfectly in control of what I'm saying to God.

    Again, you seem to be under the impression that I burst into tongues every five minutes - I don't. In fact, it's a few weeks since I used the gift, and when I do so, it is only in my personal prayer time. Other believers in churches which openly practice the charisma are a lot free-er with the use ansd interpretation of tongues, as well as other gifts. I have been to such churches; the atmosphere can be intimidating or even fearful to the uninitiated. While I enjoy such worship and fellowship, it is not part of my own church's worship., but I recognise it has value in its' own setting.

    I can assure you that I am always in control; at no point have I been otherwise - after all, I believe firmily in a God who has nothing but good for those who love Him.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
bernie;
Sorry; you misunderstand my use of tongues. I do not babble like pagans - which the Lord specifically tells us not to do; yet when I am in deep prayer, yet cannot utter the words I want to say, whether they are words of praise - or anguish - tongues have bridged the gap. When it comes to intercessory prayer, though,or praying through a scripture or set of notes I'm preparing for a service, I can assure you that I'm perfectly in control of what I'm saying to God.

    Again, you seem to be under the impression that I burst into tongues every five minutes - I don't. In fact, it's a few weeks since I used the gift, and when I do so, it is only in my personal prayer time. Other believers in churches which openly practice the charisma are a lot free-er with the use ansd interpretation of tongues, as well as other gifts. I have been to such churches; the atmosphere can be intimidating or even fearful to the uninitiated. While I enjoy such worship and fellowship, it is not part of my own church's worship., but I recognise it has value in its' own setting.

    I can assure you that I am always in control; at no point have I been otherwise - after all, I believe firmily in a God who has nothing but good for those who love Him.


Jim God does not need you to babble in tongue He reads your heart, and I would say in this case He reads a man who will try and excuse himself by any means rather than give up the toy that the spirits give him to play with.

Get praying to the Father and Praise His name, don't start some kind of prayer where the Father speaks to Himself.

GOD Will Read Your Heart, you need not struggle in prayer, in struggle remain silent and allow your heart to be read and God will tell you in understanding be it once a year or all day long.

Locate the spirit of truth within you and give shrift to this false spirit.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

JamesJah wrote:
Jim what do you think this scripture can teach us?

Acts 18:24-27
Now a certain Jew named Apollo’s, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Ephesus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures.
This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John.

This [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him.

Further, because he was desiring to go across into Achaia, the brothers wrote the disciples, exhorting them to receive him kindly.


Which God do you serve Jim?
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim what do you think this scripture can teach us?

Acts 18:24-27
Now a certain Jew named Apollo’s, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Ephesus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures.
This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John.

This [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him.

Further, because he was desiring to go across into Achaia, the brothers wrote the disciples, exhorting them to receive him kindly.


Which God do you serve Jim?


You seem to have a problem with the idea that there is only one God, James.
Jim

James:
Which God do I serve?
There is only one.
I thought you knew that.
Jim

bernie;
I gave myself - every part of me - to Christ more than thirty years ago; a choice I have never for one momment regretted. I can say with Paul that it is not I, but Christ who lives in me.

It was another six years before I experienced the 'filling of the Spirit'. The charisma are a precious resource - given not for self agrandisment, but for the specific aim of building up the body of Christ. It happened that, shortly before I was filled with the Spirit, a phyisical disability greatly reduced my already limited sight, meaning I had lost the ability to read. Braille was not an option, and taped material, including Scripture, while laudable, was a poor substitute. When I was filled with the Spirit, the experience gave me a very much deepened bond with God, enabling me to continue for Him in the church. Oh, yes, I made mistakes, lots of them, but I knew what I was doing was according to His purpose.
I thank God that I now have gadgets which help me read print, and, for the last fifteen years, I've been able to hold a Bible in my hand and read it...this beats anything and everything!
The charisma are no substitute for study or doctrine - Paul makes that abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians - but they compliment both.
JamesJah

Lexilogio wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim what do you think this scripture can teach us?

Acts 18:24-27
Now a certain Jew named Apollo’s, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Ephesus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures.
This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John.

This [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him.

Further, because he was desiring to go across into Achaia, the brothers wrote the disciples, exhorting them to receive him kindly.


Which God do you serve Jim?


You seem to have a problem with the idea that there is only one God, James.


There is only one Almighty, which one is that?
JamesJah

1 Corinthians 8:5, 6
For even though there are those who are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth,
just as there are many gods and many lords,
there is actually to us one God the Father,
out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
bernie;
I gave myself - every part of me - to Christ more than thirty years ago; a choice I have never for one momment regretted. I can say with Paul that it is not I, but Christ who lives in me.

It was another six years before I experienced the 'filling of the Spirit'. The charisma are a precious resource - given not for self agrandisment, but for the specific aim of building up the body of Christ. It happened that, shortly before I was filled with the Spirit, a phyisical disability greatly reduced my already limited sight, meaning I had lost the ability to read. Braille was not an option, and taped material, including Scripture, while laudable, was a poor substitute. When I was filled with the Spirit, the experience gave me a very much deepened bond with God, enabling me to continue for Him in the church. Oh, yes, I made mistakes, lots of them, but I knew what I was doing was according to His purpose.
I thank God that I now have gadgets which help me read print, and, for the last fifteen years, I've been able to hold a Bible in my hand and read it...this beats anything and everything!
The charisma are no substitute for study or doctrine - Paul makes that abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians - but they compliment both.


Jim

Don't you understand that what you say could be said by anyone of another religion, and is said by others of other religions.

Underline the thanks you give to God for the provisions of a system that is not Gods.

In Egypt the hebrews became so accustomed to the provisions of the Egyptian god that when they felt God had departed from them in the absence of Mose, they made craven images to appease the Egyptian gods.

I'm glad that you have these gadgets but much more I wish you into good health and fully sighted and in the hand of the true God.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Thanks, bernie.
I am already held in the palm of His hands.
And, I can say with Paul, "For we walk by faith, not by sight"!
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Thanks, bernie.
I am already held in the palm of His hands.
And, I can say with Paul, "For we walk by faith, not by sight"!


Well Jim, its as I have said and as I expected so no change there, I suppose you can gain some comfort as the likes of the Roman catholic church start to give room to this spirit that you follow, perhaps soon the whole of the Pauline cultured following will be gathered together and speaking in tongue, even those who today reject it, Roman catholic, baptist, cofe, all are starting to or already welcomeing the charismatic movements.
Soon the gathering in will have taken place, unfortunately it's the weeds that are gathered first.


Does it never strike you how you drink from the fountain that has been condemned as sweet and bitter water do not flow from the same fountain?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Which god was that again just one time Jim?

Numbers 25:2, 3
The people began to eat and to bow down to their gods. So Israel attached itself to the Baal of Peor; and the anger of Jehovah began to blaze against Israel.
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim what do you think this scripture can teach us?

Acts 18:24-27
Now a certain Jew named Apollo’s, a native of Alexandria, an eloquent man, arrived in Ephesus; and he was well versed in the Scriptures.
This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John.

This [man] started to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and expounded the way of God more correctly to him.

Further, because he was desiring to go across into Achaia, the brothers wrote the disciples, exhorting them to receive him kindly.


Which God do you serve Jim?


You seem to have a problem with the idea that there is only one God, James.


There is only one Almighty, which one is that?


Only one God, James. The rest of us don't recognise the existence of any other deities. I am enormously disappointed that the JWs seem to teach there are more.

Exodus 20:2-3: "I am the Lord your God.... You shall have no other gods before me."
Deuteronomy 4:35: "You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides him there is no other."
2 Samuel 7:22: "How great you are, O Sovereign Lord! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears."
Isaiah 44:6-8: "This is what the Lord says — Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. "
Hosea 13:4: "But I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior but me."
Romans 3:29-30: "Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God."
JamesJah

That does not say that there are not any others called god, what was the difference between the one God and the Baal god the Jews kept turning too?
bnabernard

I [am] the LORD H3068 יהוה Yĕhovah

thy God, H430 אלהים 'elohiym

which have brought H3318 יצא yatsa'

thee out of the land H776 ארץ 'erets

of Egypt, H4714 מצרים Mitsrayim

out of the house H1004 בית bayith

of bondage. H5650 עבד `ebed


English (KJV)   Strong's Root Form (Hebrew) Tense
Unto thee it was shewed, H7200 ראה ra'ah

that thou mightest know H3045 ידע yada`

that the LORD H3068 יהוה Yĕhovah

he [is] God; H430 אלהים 'elohiym

[there is] none else H5750 עוד `owd

beside him. H905 בד bad


The hebrews had no problem knowing that God had a name. Why do christians have a problem?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Which God?
YHWH - The triune God;
The God incarnate who said "I and the Father are one".
The God Incarnate who said "Before Abraham was, I AM".
The Lord who is the visible image of the Invisible God.
The Logos who was the Word and God.

That's the one - and the ONE.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Which God?
YHWH - The triune God;
The God incarnate who said "I and the Father are one".
The God Incarnate who said "Before Abraham was, I AM".
The Lord who is the visible image of the Invisible God.
The Logos who was the Word and God.

That's the one - and the ONE.


And three cheers for the Pope.  

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

So, while we're on the subject, who hangs on to the words and dictates of the Pope when the Pope has his HS hat on, when his dictate is through the guidence of the HS.

This question goes of course to the non roman catholics.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Which God?
YHWH - The triune God;
The God incarnate who said "I and the Father are one".
The God Incarnate who said "Before Abraham was, I AM".
The Lord who is the visible image of the Invisible God.
The Logos who was the Word and God.

That's the one - and the ONE.


Are the disciples a part of God or just other gods?

John 17:11
Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are.
Jim

Regardless of the Russelite tripe, James, there is only One God.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


Please note in passing that the rubbish promulgated by your group about the Holy Spirit being a force akin to electricity is as false as the rubbish connecting the LORD Jesus to the archangel Michael.
Jim

bernie;
Whilst adhering to the apostles' creed in accepting one Holy Catholic (meaning Universal ) church, I am not a Roman Catholic and therefore cannot answer for them.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
bernie;
Whilst adhering to the apostles' creed in accepting one Holy Catholic (meaning Universal ) church, I am not a Roman Catholic and therefore cannot answer for them.


Do you not recognise the Pope being guided by the Holy Spirit, Jim?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

I have never seen what you teach in scripture, Russell insisted that a person should only teach what the scriptures teach regardless of what the clergy want to teach.

It is they that have made themselves false gods to the people, and enslaved them to traditions of men and not God.

Who invented the word trinity?
Jim

James:
Russell also referred to the Great Pyramid as "a second Bible in stone".
And you expect me to take the teachings of a deluded nutter seriously?
Jim

I see the pope as just another flawed human dealing with faith issues; no more, no less, bernie.
I have no authority or right to judge whether he is, or is not, guided by the Holy Spirit.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
I see the pope as just another flawed human dealing with faith issues; no more, no less, bernie.
I have no authority or right to judge whether he is, or is not, guided by the Holy Spirit.


I think perhaps you misunderstand this judgement lark, it only warns you that you will be judged according to how you judge, in other words you have to make a decision on many things and judge, just be prepared to be judged..

So Judge this flawed man, the Pope, and deliver a judgement perhaps on his fruits, tell me this Pope and his bishops, do they show the fruits of being guided by the Holy Spirit as they say they are. Be bold you have nothing to fear for you will be judged and you say you are in the clear.

bernard  (hug)

After all judgement can be made when one wants to

Quote:
And you expect me to take the teachings of a deluded nutter seriously?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
James:
Russell also referred to the Great Pyramid as "a second Bible in stone".
And you expect me to take the teachings of a deluded nutter seriously?


Miss understanding quotes is quite common for you is it not Jim if you can do it with the bible you can do it with anything.

We know Jesus was before Abraham, but you make some other meaning to his words to suit a deformed teaching.

According to scripture Jesus was a mighty god but superstition and slavery to tradition you make more of it than there is and turn the Christ into Almighty God of which the bible sais there is only one, so jumping through hoops you make Jesus one with the Farther which is in reality two.

Then two is not enough so you, so you make the Holy Spirit a god now you have three of which you say there is just one????????????????

What does the bible teach?
That Almighty God is a Father to his people.

That Jesus is a mediator between his Father and his people, that the Father is greater than he is. That he is the word which the Father speaks to his people, he now has been elevated above the angels and given a superior position.
Quote:

Revelation 1:1
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,
to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented in signs through him to his slave John,



Who speaks all these thing? His spirit anointed followers who spoke according to the word given to them by Holy Spirit.

Now Jim do you claim more insight than those anointed with spirit?
Jim

Jumping through hoops?
Wow, that's rich!
The (mis)translators of the NWT had to contort the hoops to fit their theology as they jumped through them!
Sorry, James, but you're the one who regurgitated Russell.
How can anyone possibly even research the words of a proven liar who missmeasured the pyramid to 'prophesy' the tripe he did?
I use the term 'liar' here with regret; it is not a word I would use in debate, or in polite conversation without cause.
Unfortunately the figures he used WERE wrong - by a large margin. He probably thought no-one would check till long after he popped his clogs. Sad for him, therefore, that the science of Egyptology was nascent, but exact, just at the time he was ['prophesying'.
I cannot trust the opinions of such a person, or his sucessor  Rutherford - to be kind, their judgement was extremely suspect at best.
That's why, James, I will shake the dust off my shoes when dealing with a tainted theology.
bnabernard

I like your style Jim, not believing tainted doctrne.

So lets examine the claims relating to the Holy Spirit as in the line of the Pope, just to help you understand in discision making or expressing judgement.

Pope Formosu (maybe spelling issue) was dug up by Pope Stephen and excumunicated, what happened to the people he ordianed or the laws and dictates he was responsible for I don't know.
But here you are with the flag of the Holy Spirit being waved, do you think iunder the circumstances that there is reason to come to a Judgement, are those who feel they are led by the Holy Spirit realy led by the Holy Spirit.
Who can judge, was Formosu realy innocent and Stephen wrong or does the judgement stand?

How many false ordinations did he make, how many false baptisms ensued, it snowballs.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Who can judge?
Only One - the Judge of all the earth!
I trust in His justice alone.
JamesJah

Jim like most anti Russell’ites who exaggerate the facts thinking that they are the only ones who have read the material.

I saw no new prophecies there nor did he make any all he did was to use it to illustrate the different epochs of the bible the epochs are still there nothing in the bible was change by him God is still Almighty and the other god just a mighty one.
JamesJah

Why is it so many will say when did we see you?

Matthew 25: 37
Jim

James;
You're not helping your cause here:
So Russell DELIBERATELY mismeasured the monument in order to illustrate his idea of a bible truth?
It gets worse!
So the God who is truth resorts to a servant who manufactures false figures to claim a truth?
And I'm supposed to even consider Russell and his sucessor?
Come off it!
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Who can judge?
Only One - the Judge of all the earth!
I trust in His justice alone.



Quote:
And you expect me to take the teachings of a deluded nutter seriously?


Well I got no knowledge of your information against Russell, nor does it interest me as I am not one, but regards making judgement, it seems you are ready willing and able when it suits you?
This is the act of inviting self judgement, and in your case it revolves arround the indwelling spirit, which is what the Pope professes to have, and his cronies.

So for judgement sake are you with the Pope of against the Pope, has he in your understanding got the HS, are his teachings in accord with the HS,  are you and the Pope one in union with the HS?

How about some of the orthodox who are indwelt, are you one with.

My judgement is that there is only one HS so you are all one.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Not even Russell claimed to have special attributes for what he wrote, he was always open to correction, but noted that the scriptures were teaching things the clergy were not, and the clergy kept to teachings which they had invented.

Now JW's do not have a pyramid philosophy, but the clergy do with there cross and their trinity.
Jim

Your comment about clergy is lost on me, James: I'm Presbyterian.

As for Russell; which one of the following options suits you?
1 Russell lied about his calculations to make them fit into his theology.
2. Russell somehow miscalculated the measurements, then based his theology on them - wobbly foundations, not so much built on sand, but thin air...
3 God used these miscalculations to show Russell his planned future ( Remember, we're talking about the source of all truth here: would such a source use wrong figures?)
4 Out of embarrassment, Rutherford the chicken, instead of owning up to Russell's stupidity, kept Russell's ideas while ditching their source - shaky foundations again.
JamesJah

What have I learnt from you so far Jim? That you are a Presbyterian who has a hatred for a man called Russell, and you refuse everything he sais because he thought a pyramid in Egypt was the alter that Jehovah said in scripture he had left there. MMMMM

What did I learn about Russell? He thought the clergy of his day had little understanding of scripture and were teaching false teachings.
When he tried to discuss these teachings with them they refused to entertain him just ridiculing his qualifications, regardless of his being right or wrong.

This motivated him to give people that would listen the choice to choose for themselves, he did so by using his wealth to publish the information so the reader could make up his own mind on the matter.

What good did it do it started honest hearted people off on researching the matter for themselves and learning what the bible really taught.

Regardless of those that tried to rock the boat or put forward their own ideas enough safe guards had been put in place for Jesus when he came to inspect these ones for him to bless their efforts and correct them so that they could be fully acceptable to him,

So now we have a nation rising up in the earth that has the backing of the true God and a people who now know what God's purpose is for mankind and have dedicated them selves to do his will for them.

Now I read the scriptures with understanding all because of the efforts of honest people who were humble enough to seek God and were willing to do things the way he required rather than water down their belief as most other persons had done.

Does your teaching Jim tell you when this was fulfilled?

Daniel 11:33-35
As regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for [some] days. But when they are made to stumble they will be helped with a little help; and many will certainly join themselves to them by means of smoothness. And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed.
gone

Oh dear how very sad!
Powwow

That's very rich indeed JJ. There are no differing opinions nor new ideas tolerated in the kingdom halls. If you have an opposing view you will be shunned by the congregation and your own family until you change your mind and repent. The only ones to talk to you are the leaders in the kingdom hall. I know this for a fact as I met a couple who were being treated with this tactic. Thankfully my friend and her mom ignored the rules and allowed this couple into their home.
The watchtower slaves are fed a very cleaned up tale about Russell. He was a proven liar. In a court room in my country, Charles Russell perjured himself. The court records are there for anyone to examine.
JamesJah

It is amazing how people slander Russell as if he was Jesus Christ; I put it down to fear of the truth.

The truth is JW's try to follow in Christ foot steps faithfully and mould themselves on the real Christians of the first Century, which also did not go down too well.

Then Jesus said if they have persecuted me they will persecute you also a slave is not greater than the master is he?
Jim

Whoa, bernie!
Who said anything about hate?
I hate no-one!
Russell I feel pity for, as his delusions led to the foundation of a group who, while rejecting his initial methods - pyramidology - maintain the results he claimed when using them.
I also feel pity for Russell's followers.

But absolutely no hate.
Jim

James:
You try to be Christians of the first century?
Then you'd better reject the letters of John, Peter, Jude and Revelation in your bible, and add the Didache and Shepherd of Hermas.
The books I suggest you reject were adopted only by the mid-second century by Trinitarians, in an attemt to destroy the non trinitarian Arian heresy.
The books, while known, were not universally adopted as scripture at the end of the first century.
So, yet another re-write of your mis-translation on the cards, then?
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
James:
You try to be Christians of the first century?
Then you'd better reject the letters of John, Peter, Jude and Revelation in your bible, and add the Didache and Shepherd of Hermas.
The books I suggest you reject were adopted only by the mid-second century by Trinitarians, in an attemt to destroy the non trinitarian Arian heresy.
The books, while known, were not universally adopted as scripture at the end of the first century.
So, yet another re-write of your mis-translation on the cards, then?


Well as I always say, you cant get  sweet and bitter water from the same fountain, yet lo and behold the triune believers reckon you can.
The trinity has polluted everything with it's false teaching delivered by the sword.

anyhow  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

As you can see Jim there was considerable opposition to the trinity teaching but as you say those who supported the triune understanding persecuted the non trinitarian virtualy out of existence, notable that persecution was what was to be expected by those who recognised the son of God while in understanding retained the truth and did not waver under persecution into a false doctrine.
What are the results of the church built on a false teaching other than what would be expected, disharmony and further persecutions among themselves, a disjointement of doctrines that themselves fall apart as vent is given to new lights.

There was and is one God, and one purpose, one will and one unity of all who recognise the true God.

It's comendable in my sight that today we have people who will not become tied to doctines made by man but will stand back objectively and search for the truth among the rubble thrown down by self rightious people who come/came before them, people who are now led by the spirit of truth rather than the truths that man has concocted to fit a god of their own making.

Get out of her Jim her time is at an end, be free from the burdens of a false god.

bernard (hug)
Jim

I am free from the burden of a false God - I follow Christ, who is God Incarnate, and His Father, in the tri-unity of the Spirit.

As for doctrine?
Well, no church or minister in the CofS has the authority or the right to tell anyone what to believe - there are many strands of opinion in the CofS, which can be both strength and weakness.
I find nothing in the accepted translation of Scripture which negates the triune nature of God, and many things which affirm it.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
I am free from the burden of a false God - I follow Christ, who is God Incarnate, and His Father, in the tri-unity of the Spirit.

As for doctrine?
Well, no church or minister in the CofS has the authority or the right to tell anyone what to believe - there are many strands of opinion in the CofS, which can be both strength and weakness.
I find nothing in the accepted translation of Scripture which negates the triune nature of God, and many things which affirm it.


Jim you will not find anything unless you look with the mind opened, however when the mind is preconditioned this will take effort.

Arias a presbyter, a follower of the true teaching of the disciples, the never ending teaching of YHWH through His prophets, he remained true to the faith in rejection of the false teaching bing built for the satisfaction of man.
Those who followed Yeshuah did not teach of a trinity, that Yeshuah was God, they taught of a witness, a witness that bore testimonie to the word of God and the comming of age of Gods promise.

And how annoyed in the comming of age of that promise were those that the promise was directed against

While anyone fills their head with the teachings of an obviously false nature, teachings that have never reflected the teachings of the son then they will always be drawn to a wrong conclusion and where there is doubt they will err on the side of the most reasoning which is preached by the crumblig false religion of the trinity. The false religion that stands up to its neck in the blood of innocents.

Yeshuah did not come to write a new gospel, he came to fufill the one everlasting gospel, and no new gospels will alter the payment paid by Yeshuah and his right.

No new Gospel will alter the nature of YHWH, he is the one sole creator and from Him and Him alone do all things come into being.
As He was known of old by the prophets so He remains unchanged and determined in his own creation, and in that determination falsehoods will evaporate in the fire.

Is it any wonder that confusion and false teaching came to be the order of the day as manipulative men drew to themselves their own gospel, no longer did the order exist in one place but was scattered as each man made his own determination and wrote his own thoughts and his own fallible recolection and so it was that men sought to deliver New and ignore the Old, no new patches on old cloth as the followers of the trinity would have it.

The god of Egypt has been raised up and been given that which does not belong to him, and man wallows in the false gods mire.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Like Arius, I am a presbyter.
Unlike Arius, I see no problem in the accepted thought on the nature and tri-unity of God as handed down, not by tradition, which I reject, but by the God-breathed Scripture of the Old and New Testament, as translated by competant scholars.

I approached my theology studies with an open mind, praying that the Holy Spirit would lead me into all righteousness, as scripture says.
He has.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Like Arius, I am a presbyter.
Unlike Arius, I see no problem in the accepted thought on the nature and tri-unity of God as handed down, not by tradition, which I reject, but by the God-breathed Scripture of the Old and New Testament, as translated by competant scholars.

I approached my theology studies with an open mind, praying that the Holy Spirit would lead me into all righteousness, as scripture says.
He has.


Your oneness with the likes of the Pope through the same spirit and the sharing of the same scholars is not unexpected, being in the grip of the same spirit is not suprising.
So no change there then. however I am suprised that trinitarians are not more unitied, as in being one with the Pope and one with each other, after all we could not expect the Holy Spirit to be casting out the Holy Spirit now could we?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

How do we pray to the true God the Father of Jesus?

Matthew 6:9-11
You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.

John 4:23, 24
Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.

What name is sanctified?
bnabernard

If a person goes arround with a loaded gun they are carrying a dangerous weapon, however if a person goes arround with a gun that is not loaded then all they have is a cosh.

Having faith in an unloaded gun is to have faith in something without power, empty, having the appearance of power.

Having faith in a loaded Gun is having faith in something with power.

God is the loaded gun and being one with God and God being one with the person is like when Moses struck the rock, nothing was impossible to him.

And the God that was one with Moses, the same God the Father who Yeshauh spoke of when offering guidence on prayer.


bernard (hug)
Jim

James;
In answer to the OP;
Abba.
JamesJah

Quite an analogy Bernie but we all know God is love.

Even Church people use this to excuse themselves every sort of behaviour, it was the same with the Jews, they would just say God is not really interested in what they did, how wrong they were.

Most seem to have missed the scripture that applies to our day,>>>

Romans 2:16
This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.

When judged? How judged?
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
James;
In answer to the OP;
Abba.


This reply to James, are you saying the Fathers name is Abba?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Well; bernie, it certainly isn't Jehovah! The word doesn't occur in properly translated NTs.

"Abba" - the Aramaic diminuative for "Father" , translated variously as "Dear Father", but actually a child's first stumbling word "dad", is, according to both the LORD Jesus Himself and Paul, the way we should approach God, our Father, in prayer. In other words, with a child-like certainty of our Father's listening, understanding ear.
JamesJah

If he is a Jew or Arab, he can
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Well; bernie, it certainly isn't Jehovah! The word doesn't occur in properly translated NTs.

"Abba" - the Aramaic diminuative for "Father" , translated variously as "Dear Father", but actually a child's first stumbling word "dad", is, according to both the LORD Jesus Himself and Paul, the way we should approach God, our Father, in prayer. In other words, with a child-like certainty of our Father's listening, understanding ear.


When do you use this hebrew term then, when speaking in tongue or english?
Is the tongue you speak in Hebrew?

Or do you in your english/scot tongue say Dad. and if not Dad why not if the rest of what you have to say you say in english?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Ye nah ken ye wee sasanak.

Gooda nacht Bernie I'm off for a wee kip.
bnabernard

Well James if you are going to say a prayer before you sleep remember that you have a choice, aramaic, hebrew, greek, one you make up, or simple english, or shuffle the pack and deal whatever makes you feel good,  

Just aint the same since they done away with the Latin  

night Bernard (hug)

You can't beat a bit of astetics for a warm glow  
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
Ye nah ken ye wee sasanak.

Gooda nacht Bernie I'm off for a wee kip.


Its sassenach not sasanak.
bnabernard

 Lexi I would have thought James would keep his sleep problems to himself (wee kip)  

James they got special underpants for that nowdays you ole git  

bernard   (hug)

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