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JamesJah

How to spell the Almighty God's name

Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.
Honey 56

You may have started a new thread James, but you have lost all credibility with your dishonest use of the scriptures at Revelation 20.
JamesJah

Still dodging the question with you own version of truth?

If the shortened version of God’s name is Jah how do we suddenly ‘Jeh’ or ‘Yeh’
LeClerc

Re: How to spell the Almighty God's name

JamesJah wrote:
Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.


Lets go back to Exodus 15 NWT
2 My strength and [my] might is Jah, since he serves for my salvation.
This is my God, and I shall laud him; my father’s God, and I shall raise him on high


Jah here in English is pronounced Yah is it not.

HalleluJah is not pronounced with the J having the sound as in Jar, is it James, but is pronounced HalleluYah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARvQWB33v0

Jah in the Genesis 15 verse 2 is therefore pronounced Yah.

LeClerc
Honey 56

The WTBTS do not either spell or pronounce the Name of God correctly.
The truth from the scriptures.....

You shall not misuse the name of the *LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

*Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהֹוָה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Short Definition: LORD


15God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, *‘The Lord,c the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation

*Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהֹוָה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Short Definition: LORD


2God also said to Moses, “I am the Lord. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty,a but by my name the Lordb I did not make myself known to them.

The Patriarchs knew God as El Shaddai, Moses was given the name by which God is to be remembered, however the warning to not misuse the name was taken very seriously by the Hebrews and they do not use it.
As our poster Paul pointed out, Christian scholars use Adonai or Lord for the same reason.

The name Jehovah is a man made concept and was used traditionally, that does not make it correct.  More enlightened people have moved away from it's use, because it is incorrect.
If something is done in error, that is one thing, but to purposely carry on doing something you know to be wrong is completely another!

To quote the WTBTS.......

"Hebrew scholars generally favour YAHWEH as the most likely pronunciation ... since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems no reason for abandoning in English the well known form JEHOVAH in favour of some other suggested pronunciation"
Insight Vo.2. pg7
.
Honey 56

BTW James,
Did you know it was the so called 'evil Christendom', you know the one we have to'get out of at all costs' (according to WTBTS,) who invented the name 'Jehovah'

"The name Jehovah already occurs repeatedly in the 13th Century in the Latin form of Jehovah. The Spanish monk Raymond Mantini, translated about 1270 different parts of the Bible from the Hebrew. In his manuscripts is on the right side the Hebrew text and on the left the Latin with Iehovah.

Cardinal Nikolaus of Kues used the Tetragrammaton vocalized as Jehovah in several of his works, 1428, in his Sermon In Principio Erat Verbum.

Petrus Galatinus published in the year 1518 his work "De Arcnis catholicae veritatis".

As William Tyndale, translated the Pentateuch 1530, he transferred the Tetragrammaton also by using the word Jehovah.
JamesJah

It would seem by all of your posts that you all recognise that the sound of God’s name has been lost over time, even in Hebrew, so why is there so much fervour in nit picking the modern version, that is understood and used by all?

The only people that recognise that name today, in old and Modern Hebrew are those publishing its importance to the world.

We know who they are do we not?

Romans 10:13-15
For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!
Honey 56

Nit picking James?
Can I just remind you that you raised this on another thread several times, and then you started this thead!
JamesJah

That was because Honey we had not established then that the JW critics know what is right, but just keep on insisting on being obtuse, and posting the consonants of Gods name as a viable alternative which is understood by all JW’s if not by all of Christendom.
LeClerc

Re: How to spell the Almighty God's name

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.


Lets go back to Exodus 15 NWT
2 My strength and [my] might is Jah, since he serves for my salvation.
This is my God, and I shall laud him; my father’s God, and I shall raise him on high


Jah here in English is pronounced Yah is it not.

HalleluJah is not pronounced with the J having the sound as in Jar, is it James, but is pronounced HalleluYah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARvQWB33v0

Jah in the Genesis 15 verse 2 is therefore pronounced Yah.

No answer from James ?

LeClerc
Kernewek

Watch out for a new topic

Kernewek.
bnabernard

New topic, em, how about Joshua?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Hallllow again LerClerc

Tuesdays is my easy day for shopping.

I think the reason we the English started God's name the way we do pronounce it was because the early translators had been German although the Germans do spell it in the same way we do which is why some of you get a little confused over the phonetics. There are still some coming here and being silly by just using the consonants.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
It would seem by all of your posts that you all recognise that the sound of God’s name has been lost over time, even in Hebrew, so why is there so much fervour in nit picking the modern version, that is understood and used by all?

The only people that recognise that name today, in old and Modern Hebrew are those publishing its importance to the world.

We know who they are do we not?

!


Oh yes we know who they are alright,

The name Jehovah is a man made concept and was used traditionally, that does not make it correct.  More enlightened people have moved away from it's use, because it is incorrect.
If something is done in error, that is one thing, but to purposely carry on doing something you know to be wrong is completely another!

To quote the WTBTS.......

"Hebrew scholars generally favour YAHWEH as the most likely pronunciation ... since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems no reason for abandoning in English the well known form JEHOVAH in favour of some other suggested pronunciation"
Insight Vo.2. pg7.

BTW James,
Did you know it was the so called 'evil Christendom', you know the one we have to'get out of at all costs' (according to WTBTS,) who invented the name 'Jehovah'

"The name Jehovah already occurs repeatedly in the 13th Century in the Latin form of Jehovah. The Spanish monk Raymond Mantini, translated about 1270 different parts of the Bible from the Hebrew. In his manuscripts is on the right side the Hebrew text and on the left the Latin with Iehovah.

Cardinal Nikolaus of Kues used the Tetragrammaton vocalized as Jehovah in several of his works, 1428, in his Sermon In Principio Erat Verbum.

Petrus Galatinus published in the year 1518 his work "De Arcnis catholicae veritatis".

As William Tyndale, translated the Pentateuch 1530, he transferred the Tetragrammaton also by using the word Jehovah.


Slightly hypocritical, is it not?
JamesJah

Do you put your judgement Honey above all others?

Matthew 7:1, 2
Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you.

How do you right that in Chinese so that it sounds the same?

How many Chinese can pronounce ‘sh’ for shopping?

How many English persons can pronounce a glottal ‘H’?

Or is it only English people are Christian?

What fif Jesus have yo say on such matters?


Matthew 23:23, 24
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was binding to do, yet not to disregard the other things. Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83953"]Do you put your judgement Honey above all others?


Absolutely not James, neither do I put the judgement of a failed prophet above the word of YHWH

Quote:
How do you right that in Chinese so that it sounds the same?

How many Chinese can pronounce ‘sh’ for shopping?

How many English persons can pronounce a glottal ‘H’?

Or is it only English people are Christian?

What fif Jesus have yo say on such matters?



Messiah Yeshua solved all of this, if you were familiar with His teaching, you would know that He taught us to call  Almighty God 'Our Father', He did not teach us or His disciples to use God's holy name, because they knew better, as we do.

It's called obedience to the word of YHWH.

You shall not misuse the name of the *LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

It is more correct to obey Him than an organisation, because "there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we may be saved"


You trust the WTBTS we trust Our Messaih Yeshua, that's the difference James.

Honey
JamesJah

The WT point to the scriptures so that we know what the scriptures teach, rather than what is the entrenched opinion of religious traditionalists. These ones have allowed themselves to be trapped in the web of Babylon’s teachings. Now if they try to Change in an effort to please the Almighty God rather than man they are ostracised as if they were in the wrong.

Who invented the celebration of the Solstice?

Who sprinkled Holy water over it and said it is ok?

Who said?>>>
Matthew 24:38, 39
For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Romans 10:13-15
For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth?

Matthew 6:9
You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens,

let your name be sanctified.

What are religions today going with the Almighty God’s name?
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:83967"]The WT point to the scriptures so that we know what the scriptures teach, rather than what is the entrenched opinion of religious traditionalists. These ones have allowed themselves to be trapped in the web of Babylon’s teachings. Now if they try to Change in an effort to please the Almighty God rather than man they are ostracised as if they were in the wrong.

Who invented the celebration of the Solstice?

Who sprinkled Holy water over it and said it is ok?

Who said?>>>
Matthew 24:38, 39
For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Romans 10:13-15
For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth?

Matthew 6:9
You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens,

[b]let your name be sanctified.[/b]

What are religions today going with the Almighty God’s name?[/quote]
LeClerc

Morninh James

JamesJah wrote:
Hallllow again LerClerc

Tuesdays is my easy day for shopping.

I think the reason we the English started God's name the way we do pronounce it was because the early translators had been German although the Germans do spell it in the same way we do which is why some of you get a little confused over the phonetics. There are still some coming here and being silly by just using the consonants.


So James you agree, Jah is pronounced Yah in the English tongue.

LeClerc wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.


Lets go back to Exodus 15 NWT
2 My strength and [my] might is Jah, since he serves for my salvation.
This is my God, and I shall laud him; my father’s God, and I shall raise him on high


Jah here in English is pronounced Yah is it not.

HalleluJah is not pronounced with the J having the sound as in Jar, is it James, but is pronounced HalleluYah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARvQWB33v0

Jah in the Genesis 15 verse 2 is therefore pronounced Yah.

LeClerc


LeClerc
Jim

BTW, James.
Are you aware that YHWH appears in stone inscriptions centuries before the first preserved mss of Scripture?
You can't blame propogandists, nasty Trinitarians, even misguided Jews - 'cos the letters were carved in inscriptions by two DYN XVIII Pharaohs
Honey 56

Really Jim?

Without the vowel sounds?

Well, who would have believed that!

Well I never!!!!!  
Jim

Well, the Egyptians didn't use vowels in their inscriptions.
However, before James does a dance of joy round his not-a-christmas-tree, let me explain.
We have correspondance dating to the reigns of Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and Ay, from foriegn powers such as Mittani and Hatti (the Hittites). They were written in cuneiform, and the vowel sounds are there. Any and every linguist on reading them wiill confirm the pronunciation, and guarantee it with absolute certainty. Since YHWH appears on an inscription of Amenhotep III, we can, with total security, use this method. Thus, in Egyptian,
Nebmaatre (Amenhotep III's throne name - the name the Egyptian in the street would know him by - is prounounced "NAH-mur-i-AH.
In the same way, YHWH can only be pronounced YAHWEH (or possibly the 'E' might be deepened slightly.)
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Morninh James

JamesJah wrote:
Hallllow again LerClerc

Tuesdays is my easy day for shopping.

I think the reason we the English started God's name the way we do pronounce it was because the early translators had been German although the Germans do spell it in the same way we do which is why some of you get a little confused over the phonetics. There are still some coming here and being silly by just using the consonants.


So James you agree, Jah is pronounced Yah in the English tongue.

LeClerc wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.


Lets go back to Exodus 15 NWT
2 My strength and [my] might is Jah, since he serves for my salvation.
This is my God, and I shall laud him; my father’s God, and I shall raise him on high


Jah here in English is pronounced Yah is it not.

HalleluJah is not pronounced with the J having the sound as in Jar, is it James, but is pronounced HalleluYah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARvQWB33v0

Jah in the Genesis 15 verse 2 is therefore pronounced Yah.

LeClerc


LeClerc


Morning LerClerc

Is that on your authority or is that on some one elses?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Well, the Egyptians didn't use vowels in their inscriptions.
However, before James does a dance of joy round his not-a-christmas-tree, let me explain.
We have correspondance dating to the reigns of Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and Ay, from foriegn powers such as Mittani and Hatti (the Hittites). They were written in cuneiform, and the vowel sounds are there. Any and every linguist on reading them wiill confirm the pronunciation, and guarantee it with absolute certainty. Since YHWH appears on an inscription of Amenhotep III, we can, with total security, use this method. Thus, in Egyptian,
Nebmaatre (Amenhotep III's throne name - the name the Egyptian in the street would know him by - is prounounced "NAH-mur-i-AH.
In the same way, YHWH can only be pronounced YAHWEH (or possibly the 'E' might be deepened slightly.)




Thank you Jim, for your lesson in linguistics how is the 'W' pronounced as the Germans do or as the English do?
Jim

That's an easy one.
'W' in Egyptian, was always a hard sound, as in Wawat - the Egyptian word for a province of upper Nubia, or Wenis (greek Unas) a King of the Old Kingdom.
Wawat would be prounounced "AH-wat;
Wenis - WEHnis.
'V' very rarely appears in Egyptian, only becoming commonplace with the Hellenising influence from c44oBC onward.
JamesJah

Sorry Jim I think you missed the point of my question, what should the sound be in English do we know the correct sound in this case?

While your there you night like to explain which “H” is used?
LeClerc

Hello James

JamesJah wrote:
Hallllow again LerClerc

Tuesdays is my easy day for shopping.

I think the reason we the English started God's name the way we do pronounce it was because the early translators had been German although the Germans do spell it in the same way we do which is why some of you get a little confused over the phonetics. There are still some coming here and being silly by just using the consonants.


So James you agree, Jah is pronounced Yah in the English tongue.

[quote="LeClerc:83875"]
JamesJah wrote:
Why do so many keep trying to be clever over the spelling of the Almighty God's name when they have no knowledge of the correct sounds or the correct spelling?

The most correct that is possible in English should be similar old Hebrew phonetics and that would be to put an ‘A’ before the ‘H’ with the English ‘V’ in place of the ‘W’ which would equal Javah or Jahvah which are the sounds found in other dialects. There is one thing for certain YHWH does not make the sound of the Almighty God’s name in any language.


Lets go back to Exodus 15 NWT
2 My strength and [my] might is Jah, since he serves for my salvation.
This is my God, and I shall laud him; my father’s God, and I shall raise him on high


Jah here in English is pronounced Yah is it not.

HalleluJah is not pronounced with the J having the sound as in Jar, is it James, but is pronounced HalleluYah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARvQWB33v0

Jah in the Genesis 15 verse 2 is therefore pronounced Yah.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Yiddish which is a form of German dialect mixed with Hebrew the pronunciation would be more like the German Jar than the yar I would have thought, still be my guest Lerclerc. I try to pronounce words in the way they can be understood, how do you pronounce them?

1 Corinthians 14:9
In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Yiddish which is a form of German dialect mixed with Hebrew the pronunciation would be more like the German Jar than the yar I would have thought, still be my guest Lerclerc. I try to pronounce words in the way they can be understood, how do you pronounce them?

1 Corinthians 14:9
In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.


The German consonant 'j' is almost always pronounced in the same manner as the English 'y' sound that in words such as 'yes', 'yellow' or 'yard'.

From here

http://joycep.myweb.port.ac.uk/pronounce/consonj.html

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Yiddish which is a form of German dialect mixed with Hebrew the pronunciation would be more like the German Jar than the yar I would have thought, still be my guest Lerclerc. I try to pronounce words in the way they can be understood, how do you pronounce them?

1 Corinthians 14:9
In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.


The German consonant 'j' is almost always pronounced in the same manner as the English 'y' sound that in words such as 'yes', 'yellow' or 'yard'.

From here

http://joycep.myweb.port.ac.uk/pronounce/consonj.html

LeClerc


Which brings us back to why the English used a J for Jehovah the same as the Germans, the King James version seems to have been caught up with the early German translators in some way don't you think LerClerc?

I will still use Jehovah myself until some other way is understood better, The only people that could upgrade a change like that would be the WT. then people like your good self would miss out because of the prevailing prejudice would they not?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Yiddish which is a form of German dialect mixed with Hebrew the pronunciation would be more like the German Jar than the yar I would have thought, still be my guest Lerclerc. I try to pronounce words in the way they can be understood, how do you pronounce them?

1 Corinthians 14:9
In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.


The German consonant 'j' is almost always pronounced in the same manner as the English 'y' sound that in words such as 'yes', 'yellow' or 'yard'.

From here

http://joycep.myweb.port.ac.uk/pronounce/consonj.html

LeClerc


Which brings us back to why the English used a J for Jehovah the same as the Germans, the King James version seems to have been caught up with the early German translators in some way don't you think LerClerc?

I will still use Jehovah myself until some other way is understood better, The only people that could upgrade a change like that would be the WT. then people like your good self would miss out because of the prevailing prejudice would they not?


The Encyclopedia Americana contains the following on the J:
   “The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J, I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J, I) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England.”

The WT have got the pronunciation of name the Elohei of Avraham Yitzchak and Ya’akov wrong.

Exodus 3
6 Moreover He said, I am Elohei Avicha, Elohei Avraham, Elohei Yitzchak, and Elohei Ya’akov. And Moshe hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon HaElohim.

How much longer James are you going to follow tradition instead of the truth ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

Most bible spelling is according to the whim of the translator, the NWT has many words spelt in American English, not English, English. Now how could I change their spelling of a word when I do not agree with the Way English words are spelt?

Then I believe in logic and find the spelling of English almost impossible.

The WT explain why they use the popular spelling of Jehovah which is good enough for me so I will continue to use Jehovah until The Almighty says otherwise, I am sorry LerClerc but you do not quite have that amount of authority.
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Most bible spelling is according to the whim of the translator, the NWT has many words spelt in American English, not English, English. Now how could I change their spelling of a word when I do not agree with the Way English words are spelt?

Then I believe in logic and find the spelling of English almost impossible.

The WT explain why they use the popular spelling of Jehovah which is good enough for me so I will continue to use Jehovah until The Almighty says otherwise, I am sorry LerClerc but you do not quite have that amount of authority.


Yes James the WT do explain why, the reason being because of tradition

LeClerc
JamesJah

Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.


Psalm 145:1
I will exalt you, O my God the King, And I will bless your name to time indefinite, even forever.


w69 9/15 p. 550 The Place of God’s Name in True Worship
Although the exact pronunciation of this Divine Name has been lost, for many centuries the popular English pronunciation has been “Jehovah.” Thus The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8, 1910 edition, page 329, notes: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.”
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.


Psalm 145:1
I will exalt you, O my God the King, And I will bless your name to time indefinite, even forever.


w69 9/15 p. 550 The Place of God’s Name in True Worship
Although the exact pronunciation of this Divine Name has been lost, for many centuries the popular English pronunciation has been “Jehovah.” Thus The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8, 1910 edition, page 329, notes: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.”


James,
Why would you quote the Catholic Encyclopedia as proof of a point?
Do the WTBTS not teach that the Catholic church is the same babylon the great described at Revelation and are you not threfore exhorted by that scripture to "come out of her my people"?
Why would you suddenly agree with their teaching, is it just to try and prove your point?

Honey
JamesJah

I gave a WT reference so that your friend LerClerc can look up what the WT has to say on the matter.

You might think that your opinion carries some weight greater than that of the WT but they try to present what is the truth of a mater rather than a personal opinion.

Personally I would rely on their research more than yours, because you opinion is obvious just a biased one and lack their expertise of the WT.

They teach in harmony with the scripture, rather than just pick out the bits they like.

They are awake to the times we are living in where as the world is asleep.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
I gave a WT reference so that your friend LerClerc can look up what the WT has to say on the matter.

You might think that your opinion carries some weight greater than that of the WT but they try to present what is the truth of a mater rather than a personal opinion.

Personally I would rely on their research more than yours, because you opinion is obvious just a biased one and lack their expertise of the WT.

They teach in harmony with the scripture, rather than just pick out the bits they like.

They are awake to the times we are living in where as the world is asleep.



Just to reiterate James...

The name Jehovah is a man made concept and was used traditionally, that does not make it correct.  More enlightened people have moved away from it's use, because it is incorrect.
If something is done in error, that is one thing, but to purposely carry on doing something you know to be wrong is completely another!

To quote the WTBTS.......

"Hebrew scholars generally favour YAHWEH as the most likely pronunciation ... since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems no reason for abandoning in English the well known form JEHOVAH in favour of some other suggested pronunciation"
Insight Vo.2. pg7.


BTW James,
Did you know it was the so called 'evil Christendom', you know the one we have to'get out of at all costs' (according to WTBTS,) who invented the name 'Jehovah'


"The name Jehovah already occurs repeatedly in the 13th Century in the Latin form of Jehovah. The Spanish monk Raymond Mantini, translated about 1270 different parts of the Bible from the Hebrew. In his manuscripts is on the right side the Hebrew text and on the left the Latin with Iehovah.

Cardinal Nikolaus of Kues used the Tetragrammaton vocalized as Jehovah in several of his works, 1428, in his Sermon In Principio Erat Verbum.

Petrus Galatinus published in the year 1518 his work "De Arcnis catholicae veritatis".

As William Tyndale, translated the Pentateuch 1530, he transferred the Tetragrammaton also by using the word Jehovah
.

Slightly hypocritical, is it not
Kernewek

JamesJah wrote:
Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.


Psalm 145:1
I will exalt you, O my God the King, And I will bless your name to time indefinite, even forever.


w69 9/15 p. 550 The Place of God’s Name in True Worship
Although the exact pronunciation of this Divine Name has been lost, for many centuries the popular English pronunciation has been “Jehovah.” Thus The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8, 1910 edition, page 329, notes: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.”


Psalm 83; 18(NIV)
18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—That you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 19(CJB)
19 (18) Let them know that you alone,whose name is Adonai,are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 18(KJ2000)
18That men may know that you, whose name alone is the LORD, are the most high over all the earth.


James as you can see, in these three Bibles the name jehovah does not appear. Even the King James version of 2000 as changed back to a more direct translation, and moved away from the Catholic church and its teaching on the name jahovah.

So IMO Gods name would be better said as Adonai, as in the Hebrew fashion.

Kernewek.
gone

Call it what you like, I doubt it gives a damn if it exists!
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.


Psalm 145:1
I will exalt you, O my God the King, And I will bless your name to time indefinite, even forever.


w69 9/15 p. 550 The Place of God’s Name in True Worship
Although the exact pronunciation of this Divine Name has been lost, for many centuries the popular English pronunciation has been “Jehovah.” Thus The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8, 1910 edition, page 329, notes: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.”


Psalm 83; 18(NIV)
18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—That you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 19(CJB)
19 (18) Let them know that you alone,whose name is Adonai,are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 18(KJ2000)
18That men may know that you, whose name alone is the LORD, are the most high over all the earth.


James as you can see, in these three Bibles the name jehovah does not appear. Even the King James version of 2000 as changed back to a more direct translation, and moved away from the Catholic church and its teaching on the name jahovah.

So IMO Gods name would be better said as Adonai, as in the Hebrew fashion.

Kernewek.


So earth people are called humans, but if you have one in particular that you wish to refer to you do need to number them, do you not?

With the gods they do just name them, so as to tell the difference, so what is your problem with this one name Jehovah as against all the other gods names?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Kernewek wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.


Psalm 145:1
I will exalt you, O my God the King, And I will bless your name to time indefinite, even forever.


w69 9/15 p. 550 The Place of God’s Name in True Worship
Although the exact pronunciation of this Divine Name has been lost, for many centuries the popular English pronunciation has been “Jehovah.” Thus The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 8, 1910 edition, page 329, notes: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.”


Psalm 83; 18(NIV)
18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—That you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 19(CJB)
19 (18) Let them know that you alone,whose name is Adonai,are the Most High over all the earth.

Psalm 83; 18(KJ2000)
18That men may know that you, whose name alone is the LORD, are the most high over all the earth.


James as you can see, in these three Bibles the name jehovah does not appear. Even the King James version of 2000 as changed back to a more direct translation, and moved away from the Catholic church and its teaching on the name jahovah.

So IMO Gods name would be better said as Adonai, as in the Hebrew fashion.

Kernewek.


So earth people are called humans, but if you have one in particular that you wish to refer to you do need to number them, do you not?

With the gods they do just name them, so as to tell the difference, so what is your problem with this one name Jehovah as against all the other gods names?


So you are not the us Paul is referring too then James.

1 Corinthians 8 NWT
6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

1 Timothy 2 NWT
3This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God,

James, What is the name of your Savior God ?

LeClerc
Jim

Well, to use "Jehovah" is a corruption - unsurprisingly, given the corrupt (literary term) nature of a certain mistranslation.
Par for the course, really.

www.jesuswalk.com/names-god/yahweh_jehovah.htm

So, if the group want to remain corrupt, let them.
Shame, though.
End of thread.
Byeeeee
JamesJah

Christendom has its gods so confused they mix them all into one and drop the name because it is too embarrassing trying to explain the trinity when one has to name their God.

As there is only one Almighty God it should not be a problem being as Jesus is just called a mighty god in contrast to his Father, who is greater than him, we know because he sais so so who thinks he is great enough to argue with what Jesus said on the matter?

John 14:28, 29
If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Well, to use "Jehovah" is a corruption - unsurprisingly, given the corrupt (literary term) nature of a certain mistranslation.
Par for the course, really.

www.jesuswalk.com/names-god/yahweh_jehovah.htm

So, if the group want to remain corrupt, let them.
Shame, though.
End of thread.
Byeeeee


Yer but Jim, you have to admit that ''out of'' and ''through whom'' suggests two seperate beings. and in the case of timothy he relates them as ''out of'' being the Father one of and known alternatively as almighty God or YHWH, and the ''through whom'' as the lord Jesus or Yeshua the son of the Father,
1 Corinthians 8 NWT
6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

And when you read, ''and there is'' (underlined) then you have to aknowledge that there is one Father and there is (additionaly) the son.
Pretty much knocks LeClercs notion of two YHWH's into a cocked hat.
Don't you agree?
And if that is not anough to show LeClerc that  he is developing two Gods  with his fanciful notions then me aunts me uncle.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Haud the bus, Bernie
(Parliamo Glasgow)....
Before I get into the manifold bunglings and mistranslations of the mysterious translators of the NWT, I'd suggest that the fundamental principal of the nature of YHWH and the correct pronunciation thereof, needs dealt with first?
If you wish to open a thread on Bible translations, go for it and I'll jump in!
Jim.
bnabernard

1Cr 1:3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

1Cr 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.  

Well I've tried to find one that don't go down the same road but they come up the same in this case fro and throught, but to be honest I did not realise the first was a NWT quote, forgot this was a knock the NWT and WT thread and was not paying attention.

Still it looks like me aunt will stay being me aunt anyhow  



bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Jim wrote:
Well, to use "Jehovah" is a corruption - unsurprisingly, given the corrupt (literary term) nature of a certain mistranslation.
Par for the course, really.

www.jesuswalk.com/names-god/yahweh_jehovah.htm

So, if the group want to remain corrupt, let them.
Shame, though.
End of thread.
Byeeeee


Yer but Jim, you have to admit that ''out of'' and ''through whom'' suggests two seperate beings. and in the case of timothy he relates them as ''out of'' being the Father one of and known alternatively as almighty God or YHWH, and the ''through whom'' as the lord Jesus or Yeshua the son of the Father,
1 Corinthians 8 NWT
6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

And when you read, ''and there is'' (underlined) then you have to aknowledge that there is one Father and there is (additionaly) the son.
Pretty much knocks LeClercs notion of two YHWH's into a cocked hat.
Don't you agree?
And if that is not anough to show LeClerc that  he is developing two Gods  with his fanciful notions then me aunts me uncle.

bernard (hug)


No Bernie there is only one Lord YHWH.

Ezekiel 8
1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth [month], in the fifth [day] of the month, [as] I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord (Adonay) YHWH fell there upon me.

You can check the Hebrew here

http://interlinearbible.org/ezekiel/8-1.htm

and

1 Corinthians 8 NWT
6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord (Hebrew Adonay), Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

through Him ALL things are, so He could not have been created.

YHWH is the Logos (Word) who became flesh.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was The Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

and Bernie

Psalm 35
23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, [even] unto my cause, my God and my Lord.

LeClerc
JamesJah

I do see your problem Jim even if you do not.
bnabernard

through Him ALL things are, so He could not have been created.

Unsound deduction based on the rest what I pointed out,

YHWH is the Logos (Word) who became flesh.

No, the son made the word of God manifest, try your transliteration on the word.
............
Psalm 35
23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, [even] unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
........

2Pe 2:21   For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.  


2Pe 2:22   But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.  

.........

My aunt will remain my aunt.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

No, the son made the word of God manifest, try your transliteration on the word.

bernard (hug)


Try reading scripture.

1 John 3
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The Son of God is the Word (Logos) who was manifested.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was The Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

LeClerc
bnabernard

1Jo 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.  

Notice it says Jesus christ not YHWH

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him

How many Gods you got once we have the son on earth and the Father in heaven.
Go back to the drawing board and get to grips with your transliteration on the Word.

1Jo 4:14   And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.  

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

That is one way of understanding what you are talking about Bernard talking to one self.  
bnabernard

JamesJah wrote:
That is one way of understanding what you are talking about Bernard talking to one self.  


I get plenty of practice on here,  

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

And while I'm talking to meself I might as well mention how God formed man out of the dust and how dust became flesh when God breathed life into it,
However I think to meself (notice I'm thinking to meself now) an I thinks if dust became flesh and the word of God ids God, and the word became flesh then the dust is God, So I says to meself, (notice now I'm speaking to meself again)
If God is the dust then thats why He gets everywhere, and why these trinitarians try sweeping Him under the carpet.
awe well I finished talking to meself now I reckon I'll go and do a bit of meditation with the zzzzzz's

bernard (hug) night all and be carefull with the dusting.
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.  

Notice it says Jesus christ not YHWH

bernard (hug)


Read the whole of John Bernie especially.

1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--
2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us--


1 John 5
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

LeClerc
bnabernard

1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


Jhn 1:34   And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

1Jo 1:3   That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, [u]and with his Son Jesus Christ [/u]

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature
JamesJah

Here is something for you Bernard while your musing or is that amusing?

Einstein thinks your dust is pure energy, if you dismantle your dust you get quite a lot of energy, which in reality is light, so although we are made in Gods image we are quite a bit dimmer are we not????????????????

1 Timothy 6:14-16
that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be honour and might everlasting.
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


God begets God this is confirmed by

John 1 NWT
18No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The scriptures also teach that YHWH is God alone.

Isaiah 37 NWT
20And now, O Jehovah our God, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are [God] alone.”

Therefore since the scriptures confirm the only begotten Son is the only begotten God and YHWH is God alone the only begotten Son referred to in 1 John 4 verse 9 which you quoted, must be YHWH, and scripture cannot be broken.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Matthew 18:3, 4
Truly I say to you, unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. Therefore, whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one that is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens;
cyberman

Bloody hell! Do these threads never end?!!!
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


God begets God this is confirmed by

John 1 NWT
18No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The scriptures also teach that YHWH is God alone.

Isaiah 37 NWT
20And now, O Jehovah our God, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are [God] alone.”

Therefore since the scriptures confirm the only begotten Son is the only begotten God and YHWH is God alone the only begotten Son referred to in 1 John 4 verse 9 which you quoted, must be YHWH, and scripture cannot be broken.

LeClerc


Does being bourn from heaven count as being a begotten god?
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


God begets God this is confirmed by

John 1 NWT
18No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The scriptures also teach that YHWH is God alone.

Isaiah 37 NWT
20And now, O Jehovah our God, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are [God] alone.”

Therefore since the scriptures confirm the only begotten Son is the only begotten God and YHWH is God alone the only begotten Son referred to in 1 John 4 verse 9 which you quoted, must be YHWH, and scripture cannot be broken.

LeClerc
Jim

Cyber;
Apparently not.
I mean, I tried to end it twenty posts back, but.....
JamesJah

The truth is to hard for most here to swallow is it not?

John 1:14
So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.

John 1:18
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

John 1:29
The next day he beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said: See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

John 14:30, 31
I shall not speak much with you anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me,

2 Corinthians 4:3, 4
If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

John 10:35, 36
If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son.

Psalm 82:1, 2
God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods he judges: How long will you keep on judging with injustice And showing partiality to the wicked themselves?


Does the Almighty God of the Hebrews recognise all these languages?

Gods name in>>

Cantonese   Yewowah
German       Jehovah
Italian         Geowah
Japanese     Ehoba
Swahili        Yehowah
Yoruba         Jehofah
Zulu             uJehova
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Cyber;
Apparently not.
I mean, I tried to end it twenty posts back, but.....


Cheer up, as LeClerk turns the word of God into dust perhaps it will blow away.

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Was it Hitler that tried to eradicate Jehovah from Germany?

Who got eradicated?  
LeClerc

Hi Bernie and James

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


God begets God this is confirmed by

John 1 NWT
18No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The scriptures also teach that YHWH is God alone.

Isaiah 37 NWT
20And now, O Jehovah our God, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are [God] alone.”

Therefore since the scriptures confirm the only begotten Son is the only begotten God and YHWH is God alone the only begotten Son referred to in 1 John 4 verse 9 which you quoted, must be YHWH, and scripture cannot be broken.

James, to those who are part of Babylon there are many ''gods'' but to us who are part of YHWH's kingdom there is to us only One and His name is YHWH.

Yehoshua 22
22 “The Mighty One, God, YHWH! The Mighty One, God, YHWH! He knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to YHWH, do not spare us this day. 23 If we have built our own altar to turn away from YHWH and to offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, or to sacrifice fellowship offerings on it, may YHWH himself call us to account.

Isaiah 10 NWT
21A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.


And for Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Jim wrote:
Cyber;
Apparently not.
I mean, I tried to end it twenty posts back, but.....


Cheer up, as LeClerk turns the word of God into dust perhaps it will blow away.

bernard (hug)


Acts 13
36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.


LeClerc
JamesJah

You are in the wrong job LerClerc

Do you know what the word transposed means?
bnabernard

Acts 13
36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

I see so God is alive and well and living in Surbinton?

Or is he rooming at the vatican?

Why is it that you refer to Him as YHWH when his new name can be pronounced Yeshua?

Perhaps he has taken on a disguise and is realy David Ike after all?
...................

Now that we have God in the flesh why is it we worship in spirit?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie and James

bnabernard wrote:
1Jo 4:9   In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him


God begets God this is confirmed by

John 1 NWT
18No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

The scriptures also teach that YHWH is God alone.

Isaiah 37 NWT
20And now, O Jehovah our God, save us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O Jehovah, are [God] alone.”

Therefore since the scriptures confirm the only begotten Son is the only begotten God and YHWH is God alone the only begotten Son referred to in 1 John 4 verse 9 which you quoted, must be YHWH, and scripture cannot be broken.

James, to those who are part of Babylon there are many ''gods'' but to us who are part of YHWH's kingdom there is to us only One and His name is YHWH.

Yehoshua 22
22 “The Mighty One, God, YHWH! The Mighty One, God, YHWH! He knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to YHWH, do not spare us this day. 23 If we have built our own altar to turn away from YHWH and to offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, or to sacrifice fellowship offerings on it, may YHWH himself call us to account.

Isaiah 10 NWT
21A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.


And for Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Jim wrote:
Cyber;
Apparently not.
I mean, I tried to end it twenty posts back, but.....


Cheer up, as LeClerk turns the word of God into dust perhaps it will blow away.

bernard (hug)


Acts 13
36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

Still no answer from the scriptures then just the teachings of men.

LeClerc
bnabernard

It would seem that you are correct, the teachings of men, Yeshua was a man, and his disciples were men.
You I take it are a man, and you teach that God is a man, Yeshua, why do you continue to reference YHWH now that Yeshua has been raised in the flesh, God incarnate in the flesh and having seen no decay.



bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
It would seem that you are correct, the teachings of men, Yeshua was a man, and his disciples were men.
You I take it are a man, and you teach that God is a man, Yeshua, why do you continue to reference YHWH now that Yeshua has been raised in the flesh, God incarnate in the flesh and having seen no decay.



bernard (hug)


Turning to the Tanakh

Leviticus 26
12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am YHWH your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

LeClerc
bnabernard

So who is God, Yeshua or Moses?
I know Moses performed quite a few miracles even causing water to flow from a rock.?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So who is God, Yeshua or Moses?
I know Moses performed quite a few miracles even causing water to flow from a rock.?
bernard (hug)


Turning to the Tanakh

Exodus 15
1 Then Moses and the children of Israel sang this song to YHWH, and spoke, saying: "I will sing to YHWH, For He has triumphed gloriously! The horse and its rider He has thrown into the sea!
2 YHWH is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation (Hebrew yĕshuw`ah); He is my God, and I will praise Him; My father's God, and I will exalt Him.


LeClerc
bnabernard

So it's as I said, God has become flesh and has a new name Yeshua, he still is flesh Yeshua, wwhy do you refer to YHWH now that you have a name you can pronounce?

You now have God in the flesh why do you worship in spirit?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So it's as I said, God has become flesh and has a new name Yeshua, he still is flesh Yeshua, wwhy do you refer to YHWH now that you have a name you can pronounce?

You now have God in the flesh why do you worship in spirit?

bernard (hug)


The name of The One True Elohiym is written replacing the Hebrew letters with English equivalents, there were no vowel pointers originally.

Who says we cannot pronounce YHWH.

Y'shua means, Yah is salvation.

We worship in Spirit and in truth, the truth is

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therfore reject the truth.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Not too many church people have much idea as to why Moses body had a special disposal, do they?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Not too many church people have much idea as to why Moses body had a special disposal, do they?


Warning diversion alert.

Deuteronomy 34 NWT
5After that Moses the servant of Jehovah died there in the land of Mo′ab at the order of Jehovah.6And he proceeded to bury him in the valley in the land of Mo′ab in front of Beth‐pe′or, and nobody has come to know his grave down to this day.

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So it's as I said, God has become flesh and has a new name Yeshua, he still is flesh Yeshua, wwhy do you refer to YHWH now that you have a name you can pronounce?

You now have God in the flesh why do you worship in spirit?

bernard (hug)


The name of The One True Elohiym is written replacing the Hebrew letters with English equivalents, there were no vowel pointers originally.

Who says we cannot pronounce YHWH.

Y'shua means, Yah is salvation.

We worship in Spirit and in truth, the truth is

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therfore reject the truth.

LeClerc
JamesJah

The word of Almighty God is transported by his personal mouth piece who is the mediator for his Father who dwell in unapproachable light.

The envoy to the nations was Jesus a mighty god, unlike the god of the nations who has his own vanity to satisfy, the same as the demy gods

Daniel 10:12-14
O Daniel, for from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and humbling yourself before your God your words have been heard, and I myself have come because of your words.

But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look!

Michael, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia. And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days,

Was that prince a human, or a spirit?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
The word of Almighty God is transported by his personal mouth piece who is the mediator for his Father who dwell in unapproachable light.

The envoy to the nations was Jesus a mighty god, unlike the god of the nations who has his own vanity to satisfy, the same as the demy gods


Just as I said you have more than one God.

And we know what the scriptures teaches about having other gods.

Jeremiah 25 NWT
6And do not walk after other gods in order to serve them and to bow down to them

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Not too many church people have much idea as to why Moses body had a special disposal, do they?


Warning diversion alert.

Deuteronomy 34 NWT
5After that Moses the servant of Jehovah died there in the land of Mo′ab at the order of Jehovah.6And he proceeded to bury him in the valley in the land of Mo′ab in front of Beth‐pe′or, and nobody has come to know his grave down to this day.

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So it's as I said, God has become flesh and has a new name Yeshua, he still is flesh Yeshua, wwhy do you refer to YHWH now that you have a name you can pronounce?

You now have God in the flesh why do you worship in spirit?

bernard (hug)


The name of The One True Elohiym is written replacing the Hebrew letters with English equivalents, there were no vowel pointers originally.

Who says we cannot pronounce YHWH.

Y'shua means, Yah is salvation.

We worship in Spirit and in truth, the truth is

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therfore reject the truth.

LeClerc


Quote:
And He has become my salvation (Hebrew yĕshuw`ah);



So you have a man named Yeshua who is God made flesh, what else are you rambling about it seems your rubic cubes in a right old mess.

You now have God in the flesh Yeshua, your salvation, your redemption, God in your account.
Not only forgives you he's up for comming round for dinner, he's a man of flesh.

Don't tell me you have more than one God, one of flesh and one of spirit, cos the God Yeshua is having a job getting rid of his non decaying flesh.  

Bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:


Don't tell me you have more than one God, one of flesh and one of spirit, cos the God Yeshua is having a job getting rid of his non decaying flesh.  

Bernard (hug)


Are you not flesh and spirit, yet are there two Bernie's or one?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Am I  in heaven?

Come on LeClerc you're continualy trying to flog this dead horse of your's.

God is incarnate in the flesh, he is no longer a will of the wisp God that cannot be seen, He is flesh and blood and has a name Yeshua, his name even refers to his relationship with fallen mankind, salvation.

Now while this flesh and blood God was walking arround and doing the okey kokey he was singing the praises of his Father the Word, but as he was the word he was realy singing his own song to himself.

Now he has gone, been raised up, by himself, he remains Yeshua the word made flesh, God made flesh.

So somewhere or the other there is this man of flesh who is God, having one name Yeshua, probably stting down to a nice cuppa and a couple of mince pies from a local well known store.

So the word became flesh, dust became flesh, the word is dust, the word/dust made flesh did not decay, his spirit as you would have it, is dust, do you worship dust as the spirit of  God?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Come on LeClerc you're continualy trying to flog this dead horse of your's.
bernard (hug)


So no scripture Bernie then, just the thoughts of man.

Here is scripture.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therefore reject the truth.

LeClerc
Honey 56

LeClerc wrote:
(hug
Quote:
)


So no scripture Bernie then, just the thoughts of man.

Here is scripture.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therefore reject the truth.

LeClerc


A well reasoned reply LeClerc, however, Bernard, by his own admission does not trust the scriptures and only quotes the scriptures that agree with his own personal belief!
So yes you are qute correct whenyou say.....

Quote:
So no scripture Bernie then, just the thoughts of man.


It is possible to reason with anyone in this way?

Honey
bnabernard

Quote:
We have a choice, listen to The Spirit and receive the truth as revealed in the above scripture or ignore what the Spirit teaches and therefore reject the truth


Quote:
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us
.

You see honey we are dealing in scripture (though there seems to be an air of transliteration arround)
Scripture says that man of flesh returns to the dust from which he was created, so we know that the flesh is created from dust.

then we read, 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us so emediatley we know that the word is dust.

Then we read : John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

So now we emediatly recognise that the word that is God is dust, therefore there can be no other conclusion other than God is dust.

There you have it in scripture why are you complaining, is there something you want to change?

Conclusion: Yeshua who is the word made flesh is God become man.
and as he was restored in the flesh and able to show his wounds to thomas and thomas said to him My Lord and My God, then God has become man in a body that does not decay, and as the flesh and the working intestinal bits and bobs feeds on the dust, that is on the dust processed by the plants, it follows that Yeshua is  walking arround somewhere in the flesh.

Again, do you have a problem with that?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Hi Bernard,
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that all of the canon of scripture is God breathed (inspired by YHWH)
I do have a problem when it is misquoted, misundersatood and parts are disregarded, or cherry picked to suit some belief or another that is not based in scripture.

Honey
bnabernard

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi Bernard,
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that all of the canon of scripture is God breathed (inspired by YHWH)
I do have a problem when it is misquoted, misundersatood and parts are disregarded, or cherry picked to suit some belief or another that is not based in scripture.

Honey


Why are you continueing to use the tetragram YHWH, the dust God the Word has become flesh and is called Yeshua, he salvation he is the light of man, catch up and throw that old redering away and live with your new name, Yeshua God the dust/word made flesh.

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

bnabernard wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
Hi Bernard,
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that all of the canon of scripture is God breathed (inspired by YHWH)
I do have a problem when it is misquoted, misundersatood and parts are disregarded, or cherry picked to suit some belief or another that is not based in scripture.

Honey


Why are you continueing to use the tetragram YHWH, the dust God the Word has become flesh and is called Yeshua, he salvation he is the light of man, catch up and throw that old redering away and live with your new name, Yeshua God the dust/word made flesh.

bernard (hug)


Dear Bernard...


Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD,(YHWH) the LORD, is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation

Isaiah 12.


Honey
bnabernard

Honey 56 wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
Hi Bernard,
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that all of the canon of scripture is God breathed (inspired by YHWH)
I do have a problem when it is misquoted, misundersatood and parts are disregarded, or cherry picked to suit some belief or another that is not based in scripture.

Honey


Why are you continueing to use the tetragram YHWH, the dust God the Word has become flesh and is called Yeshua, he salvation he is the light of man, catch up and throw that old redering away and live with your new name, Yeshua God the dust/word made flesh.

bernard (hug)


Dear Bernard...


Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD,(YHWH) the LORD, is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation

Isaiah 12.


Honey


So you don't believe he bacame flesh and called himself the son Yeshua?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

bnabernard wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
Hi Bernard,
I have no problem whatsoever with believing that all of the canon of scripture is God breathed (inspired by YHWH)
I do have a problem when it is misquoted, misundersatood and parts are disregarded, or cherry picked to suit some belief or another that is not based in scripture.

Honey


Why are you continueing to use the tetragram YHWH, the dust God the Word has become flesh and is called Yeshua, he salvation he is the light of man, catch up and throw that old redering away and live with your new name, Yeshua God the dust/word made flesh.

bernard (hug)


Dear Bernard...


Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD,(YHWH) the LORD, is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation

Isaiah 12.


Honey


So you don't believe he bacame flesh and called himself the son Yeshua?

bernard (hug)


Do you ever read other peoples posts Bernard?

If you did, you would know that I absolutely do believe that Messiah Yeshua is the only begotten God! what is more I believe it because that is what the scriptures teach....
In the beginning was the word, the word was with God ,and the word was God'
John 1 and compare 1 John 1.

No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
John 1 :18
or do you have some other explanation?

Honey
Kernewek

Quote:
Bnabernard wrote
So the word became flesh, dust became flesh, the word is dust, the word/dust made flesh did not decay, his spirit as you would have it, is dust, do you worship dust as the spirit of  God?


B'resheet (Genesis) 2; 7 (CJB)
Then Adonai, God, formed a person  from the dust of the ground  and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living being.

Bernard the first adam was created from dust, the second Adam (messiah Yeshua) was begotten of Adonai, with the covering of Mary with the Holy Spirit. Scripture is in itself quite easy to follow.  So you either don’t understand it or you are playing devil’s advocate. IMO, you’re playing devil’s advocate.

Kernewek.
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

So the word became flesh


That is scriptural.

bnabernard wrote:

dust became flesh


By itself NO.

Genesis 2
7 And YHWH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

bnabernard wrote:

the word is dust


This is where you start to twist the truth Bernie.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Dust was made by The Word therefore The Word was not dust but Spirit since we know God is Spirit

John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Therefore the Hypostatis of The Word must be Spirit who is God who is YHWH.


bnabernard wrote:

the word/dust made flesh did not decay


Now you completely lose the plot.

the word/dust was not made flesh since the Word was never dust, but The Word which is Spirit was made flesh.

This flesh was not the flesh of fallen man and because this flesh never sinned did not see decay.

Hebrews 4
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

bnabernard wrote:

his spirit as you would have it, is dust, do you worship dust as the spirit of  God?


No Bernie His Spirit is the Ruwach (Spirit) of YHWH.

You see Bernie The Logos came forth from YHWH who is Spirit therefore the hypostasis of The Logos must be Spirit and Spirit is eternal life as John confirms.

1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

The eternal life could never have been dust as you are trying to teach.

But the eternal life was manifested in the flesh of unfallen man.

and the only reason man returns to dust is because of man's fallen nature which Y'shua did not inherit therefore Y'shua could not be dust in the way you are trying to portray since He was without sin.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Kerneweck

Do you understand what flesh is, and how the word became flesh.

What sort of idea is it that you have of Yeshua/Jesus, was he not a man of flesh? was he not fed at the breast of his mother? was he not fed on the dust of the ground?
Perhaps you do not understand how the plants process the dust to produce eadible substance that continualy feeds the flesh building it and helping it grow.

Have you another notion of Yeshua/Jesus and his flesh, did he feed on some other food?

The word became flesh and dwelt among us, therefore the word shall be dust become flesh, anylise the dust, transliterate the dust, but whichever road you go down flesh is flesh and the same composite be it you me or the word/Yeshua/Jesus/God.

Now as Yeshua/Jesu did not rot away and brcome dust and he become a spirit, then it follows that he remains a man, all this is proven by LeClerc and Honey in there pointing to the scriptures that uphold Yeshua as God the word.
What argument have you against them?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

You have found him out one more clever person on this forum we can add to the list Kernewek.
How do all you clever people work out how one of your gods can give to another of your Gods complete authority if all your gods are equal?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] subjected all things under his feet. But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
You have found him out one more clever person on this forum we can add to the list Kernewek.
How do all you clever people work out how one of your gods can give to another of your Gods complete authority if all your gods are equal?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] subjected all things under his feet. But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


Try sitting on your hands James then see if you can do anything, are your hands now subject to what is sitting on them yet your hands and you are not two separate beings are they.

LeClerc
JamesJah

You have done that one LerClerc where is the scripture for it?
bnabernard

Therefore the Hypostatis of The Word must be Spirit who is God who is YHWH.

So Yeshua is not God then because he is created flesh, just as Adam created without sin, each having the free will to chose to be obedient to the spirit Father YHWH.

LeClerc no matter what twist's and turns you make you still end up with a God who is made of flesh using your calculations. still you try some magicians trick to make it appear as though you have only one God whenn realy you support one in the flesh and one in the spirit, one that is almighty and another that needs a bicycle.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
You have done that one LerClerc where is the scripture for it?


John 14
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


LeClerc

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