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JamesJah

Is believing in torment in hell fire compulsory

Is torment in hell fire still taught by the churches?

I know some still do, but most round our way are on the verge of closing down.

Is that because their flocks have been educated by Jehovah’s witnesses as to what is the truth of the matter?
Lexilogio

Re: Is believing in torment in hell fire compulsory

JamesJah wrote:
Is torment in hell fire still taught by the churches?

I know some still do, but most round our way are on the verge of closing down.

Is that because their flocks have been educated by Jehovah’s witnesses as to what is the truth of the matter?


No - not all churches go for the hell fire and brimstone stuff.

But that has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Ketty

Re: Is believing in torment in hell fire compulsory

JamesJah wrote:

Is that because their flocks have been educated by Jehovah’s witnesses as to what is the truth of the matter?


James, you are funny.    
JamesJah

I remember being taught about the resurrection when I went to church but I am not too certain what was meant by it as most seem to think they would be off to heaven when they died. Still that is most churches for you today they say one thing and their flock believe what suits them regardless of it being true or not, is that not the case in this matter?
Honey 56

Just a couple of questions for you James.

Did Jesus teach on Gehenna?

Was Jesus Christ the son of God a deceiver?

If you can truthfully answer yes to the first question, you can answer no to the second.

If you can't,  then you are the deceiver.

Honey
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Just a couple of questions for you James.

Did Jesus teach on Gehenna?

Was Jesus Christ the son of God a deceiver?

If you can truthfully answer yes to the first question, you can answer no to the second.

If you can't,  then you are the deceiver.

Honey


Gehenna is a rubbish tip out side of Jerusalem no one would have the wrong idea of that place in Jesus day, it is only in this day with all the wired teachings given to it be weed Christians that people have ended up so confused over it.

Then that is what JW's have been doing for years now helping people not to be confused any more. Where as some still love the confusion so they oppose the new truths, that keep flowing from the discreet slave class.
Ketty

Honey 56 wrote:
Just a couple of questions for you James.

Did Jesus teach on Gehenna?

Was Jesus Christ the son of God a deceiver?

If you can truthfully answer yes to the first question, you can answer no to the second.

If you can't,  then you are the deceiver.

Honey


The deceiver?

One of many that the deceiver uses.

Sadly most of those deceived are not aware.  For every scripture that man throws at them, they've another to throw back.  It takes the Holy Spirit to open the eyes to Truth and whilst men are busy shouting at each other, it can get in the way.  Sometimes even those of us who mean well are doing the decievers work for him . . . not in what we say, but by continuing to play his games.
Honey 56

Ketty wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
Just a couple of questions for you James.

Did Jesus teach on Gehenna?

Was Jesus Christ the son of God a deceiver?

If you can truthfully answer yes to the first question, you can answer no to the second.

If you can't,  then you are the deceiver.

Honey


The deceiver?

One of many that the deceiver uses.

Sadly most of those deceived are not aware.  For every scripture that man throws at them, they've another to throw back.  It takes the Holy Spirit to open the eyes to Truth and whilst men are busy shouting at each other, it can get in the way.  Sometimes even those of us who mean well are doing the decievers work for him . . . not in what we say, but by continuing to play his games.


I agree thaat some people are decieved, some are mislead, but some hear the truth and disregard it, (Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower). Then the ones who diregard it go on to wilfully decieve others.
.

Some of us have been praying for years for the lost souls who are trapped in these cults.

If we do not tell them, who will Ketty?

I have no argument with you Ketty, you are secure in the arms of our Saviour some people do not have that, yet.

Remember Ralph Ketty? He does not speak to any of us now!

Honey
JamesJah

Now Ketty you have it right for now, ever heard of the honey trap even Proverbs it warns to much Honey is not good.

Proverbs 25:27
The eating of too much honey is not good; and for people to search out their own glory, is it glory?

Those that have not fled from Babylon the great have left it to late and will have to suffer the shame of face regardless of all the clever remarks made here to excuse those wishing to stay with tradition and not flee to the mountain, the mountain above the mountains.
Quote:

Isaiah 2:2, 3
It must occur in the final part of the days  the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say:

Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.


As most of the churches have removed God’s name it does make it easy to see where that mountain is, does it not?
Honey 56

The WTBTS verdict on false prophets.

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.23


Are the WTBTS a self professed prophet of God?

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'


What is the WTBTS track record on prophesy?

www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm

What is Gods Judgement on false prophets?

"However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it."
Deuteronomy 18:20-22


Honey
JamesJah

Are we in the time of the end?

Are there many end time prophecies to see?

How many missed those prophecies because they did not happen the way they thought they ought to happen?

The foolish virgins have missed out

Those invited to the marriage feast but would not put on a marriage garment have missed out those invited but were too busy have missed out.

Those still in Babylon the Great have also missed out.

People that have been fooled by the apostates they also have missed out.

When I get back in a while I will post the few prophecies left for you to watch out for they will be a bit moor obvious for you.
LeClerc

Hi James

Is belief in two Gods compulsory for salvation ?

LeClerc
The Boyg

JamesJah wrote:
When I get back in a while I will post the few prophecies left for you to watch out for they will be a bit moor obvious for you.


I'm still waiting for the collapse of world religion that you predicted was 'imminent' at the time of the global financial crisis of 2008.  
JamesJah

The Boyg wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
When I get back in a while I will post the few prophecies left for you to watch out for they will be a bit moor obvious for you.


I'm still waiting for the collapse of world religion that you predicted was 'imminent' at the time of the global financial crisis of 2008.  



Do you think this day has not come yet?

James 5:1-6
Come, now, you rich [men], weep, howling over your miseries that are coming upon you.

Your riches have rotted, and your outer garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are rusted away, and their rust will be as a witness against you and will eat your fleshy parts. Something like fire is what you have stored up in the last days. Look!

The wages due the workers who harvested your fields but which are held up by you, keep crying out, and the calls for help on the part of the reapers have entered into the ears of Jehovah of armies.

You have lived in luxury upon the earth and have gone in for sensual pleasure. You have fattened your hearts on the day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have murdered the righteous one. Is he not opposing you?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
]


Do you think this day has not come yet?

James 5:1-6
Come, now, you rich [men], weep, howling over your miseries that are coming upon you.

Your riches have rotted, and your outer garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are rusted away, and their rust will be as a witness against you and will eat your fleshy parts. Something like fire is what you have stored up in the last days. Look!

The wages due the workers who harvested your fields but which are held up by you, keep crying out, and the calls for help on the part of the reapers have entered into the ears of Jehovah of armies.

You have lived in luxury upon the earth and have gone in for sensual pleasure. You have fattened your hearts on the day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have murdered the righteous one. Is he not opposing you?


No it hasn't, not yet.

In Revelation it says that a bag of gold will not buy a loaf of bread, when the financial collapse comes, and I am afraid it will, it will not only effect the rich, in fact it is more likely to effect the poor James. Revelation also says it will be nigh on impossible to buy or sell anything because of the system humankind will be living in.

This scripture is concerning those people who have made money and ill treated those who are less fortunate, this according to this scripture will not be fully resolved until Jesus returns (7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming.) When all will come under judgement for what we have done or not, to others, because the Almighty sees what is done in secret and openly too.

Another reason to believe that Jesus has indeed not returned yet, not in secret or invisibly.

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

2 Thessalonians 2
Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and our gathering together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Messiah had come.3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

We need to heed the words given to Paul by The Holy Spirit

Now James can you please identify the man of sin ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

Which religion is preaching according to the word of God and not according to tradition?


Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Which religion is preaching according to the word of God and not according to tradition?


Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.



What do the followers of Jesus Christ teach……

12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4


What do the WTBTS teach?


"Your attitude toward the wheatlike annointed brothers of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into everlasting life."
The Watchtower, August 1, 1981, p. 26


"What does God require of those who will reside forever upon his Paradise earth? Jesus Christ identified a first requirement when he said in prayer to his Father: This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. Many have found the second requirement more difficult. It is to obey Gods laws The third requirement is that we be associated with Gods channel, his organization. The fourth requirement is connected with loyalty. God requires that prospective subjects of his Kingdom support his government by loyally advocating his Kingdom rule to others."
The Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12


Which did the Apostles and disciples teach?

Honey
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which religion is preaching according to the word of God and not according to tradition?


Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.



What do the followers of Jesus Christ teach……

12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4


What do the WTBTS teach?


"Your attitude toward the wheatlike annointed brothers of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into everlasting life."
The Watchtower, August 1, 1981, p. 26


"What does God require of those who will reside forever upon his Paradise earth? Jesus Christ identified a first requirement when he said in prayer to his Father: This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. Many have found the second requirement more difficult. It is to obey Gods laws The third requirement is that we be associated with Gods channel, his organization. The fourth requirement is connected with loyalty. God requires that prospective subjects of his Kingdom support his government by loyally advocating his Kingdom rule to others."
The Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12


Which did the Apostles and disciples teach?

Honey


Here is one you have missed>>>>

Romans 2:16
This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Which religion is preaching according to the word of God and not according to tradition?


Why does the WT still use the name Jehovah.

Answer because of tradition.

Now

2 Thessalonians 2
Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and our gathering together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Messiah had come.3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

We need to heed the words given to Paul by The Holy Spirit

Now James can you please identify the man of sin ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:

Here is one you have missed>>>>

Romans 2:16
This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.


Well done James.

So do you absolutely believe the scriptures when they teach...........

12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4


If so, why do you believe the WTBTS when they teach this.....

"Your attitude toward the wheatlike annointed brothers of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into everlasting life."
The Watchtower, August 1, 1981, p. 26


For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough
2 corinthians.

Should we put up with it?

Honey
bnabernard

The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Do I sell fridges to Enuits?

bernard (hug)
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Do I sell fridges to Enuits?

bernard (hug)


Which of the following is Scripture and which is The Word of God ?

Genesis 3
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any wild animal which Adonai, God, had made. He said to the woman,“Did God really say, ‘You are not to eat from any tree in the garden’?”

LeClerc
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?


The Lord is The Almighty

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc
cyberman

LeClerc wrote:

Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?


bnabernard wrote:
Do I sell fridges to Enuits?


JamesJah wrote:

How important is the Father in this situation?


LeClerc wrote:

Which of the following is Scripture and which is The Word of God ?


Aaargh

This thread is driving me crazy with the rhetorical questions. Make points without phrasing them as questions!

Sorry, carry on. Got that off me chest now.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?


The Lord is The Almighty

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


Do we need semantics here?

To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.
Honey 56

cyberman wrote:
LeClerc wrote:

Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?


bnabernard wrote:
Do I sell fridges to Enuits?


JamesJah wrote:

How important is the Father in this situation?


LeClerc wrote:

Which of the following is Scripture and which is The Word of God ?


Aaargh

This thread is driving me crazy with the rhetorical questions. Make points without phrasing them as questions!

Sorry, carry on. Got that off me chest now.


It's just like 'whose line is it anyway' when the panel can only speak with questions, it is very clever when they do it!  

Sorry guys, just joking!  

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?


The Lord is The Almighty

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


Do we need semantics here?

To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.


The Logos would not have truly become flesh if the flesh did not have a God.

Did you read the link James ?

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?


The Lord is The Almighty

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


Do we need semantics here?

To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.


The Logos would not have truly become flesh if the flesh did not have a God.

Did you read the link James ?

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


My quote is from your link so perhaps you are the one that should do the reading?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The Torah (word of God) was traversed in the ark and housed in the temple.

The son was the Torah made manifest in the flesh, kept only and abided only by the obedient sons of God,

If the son is judged that the Torah is made manifest in him then he is the plumline by which man is judged.

How much of the word of God is manifested in yourself/ourself.

bernard (hug)


Do you understand the distinction between Scripture and the Word of God ?

LeClerc



Nothing is done without the Almighty God’s say so, and He said you can not get life unless you recognise the son.

So how important is the son to you?

How important is the Father in this situation?

Use words to answer like Almighty, and mighty, OK?

You may put God on the end if you wish?


The Lord is The Almighty

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


Do we need semantics here?

To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.


The Logos would not have truly become flesh if the flesh did not have a God.

Did you read the link James ?

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/speakingrev18.html

LeClerc


My quote is from your link so perhaps you are the one that should do the reading?


I did James to the end

II. The textual evidence for Revelation 1:8

 A. The Greek text in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation: The Greek text uses the word Kyrios (Κύριος)
       rather than the Tetragrammaton (יהוה).

 B. The textual evidence: The only textual evidence for this verse indicates that John wrote  "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" in verse 1:8.

Observations from the Greek manuscript evidence. The only manuscript evidence available conclusively verifies the contextual evidence that Revelation 1:8 is identifying the "Lord" as God Almighty.


LeClerc
JamesJah

Yes we do have lots of lords, and lots of Kings, and even fathers, but are they Lord of lords, King of kings, almighty Fathers?

And the prince of peace, which one was that?
Honey 56

Having already established that Jesus is the Almighy spoken of at Revelation.
We can now establish that He is indeed Lord of Lord and King of Kings....


They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
Revelation 17.


Jesus is the Lamb, right?

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Yes we do have lots of lords, and lots of Kings, and even fathers, but are they Lord of lords, King of kings, almighty Fathers?

And the prince of peace, which one was that?


Scripture answers for you

Revelation 19 NWT
9 And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Is there a bit missing according to your philosophy LerClerc?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Is there a bit missing according to your philosophy LerClerc?


You mean this bit

II. The textual evidence for Revelation 1:8

A. The Greek text in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation: The Greek text uses the word Kyrios (Κύριος)
      rather than the Tetragrammaton (יהוה).

B. The textual evidence: The only textual evidence for this verse indicates that John wrote  "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" in verse 1:8.

Observations from the Greek manuscript evidence. The only manuscript evidence available conclusively verifies the contextual evidence that Revelation 1:8 is identifying the "Lord" as God Almighty.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Right LerClerc is that your argument for the trinity?
bnabernard

I see LeClerc, but lets not cherry pick among the links lest we end up with some balls missing?

there's another one for you cyberman  

oh dear there I go again

and here I went bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
Right LerClerc is that your argument for the trinity?


There you go again James, I have never mentioned that word in any of my posts, only when quoting your posts containing it.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?


Now then James.

Who is the man of lawlessness can you identify him ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?


Now then James.

Who is the man of lawlessness can you identify him ?

LeClerc



Who today thinks he speaks for God?

Who is the most venerated man on earth today who speaks for God?

Who has removed the name of God from the people?

Who is in harmony with this scripture?>>\/

2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah:80250"]


Who today thinks he speaks for God?

Who is the most venerated man on earth today who speaks for God?

Who has removed the name of God from the people?

Who is in harmony with this scripture?>>\/

2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.


The WTBTS have taught you that this is the Pope, is that correct james?


Honey
JamesJah

When I was in the Air force I had a walk around Jerusalem and saw first hand the amount of religious hypocrisy that was being indulged in by all denominations, I was convinced from that moment on nothing had change from the days when Jesus had to throw out the money changers.

When I came home I found a people who had searched out from the answer to this problem, even though the religions of this world did all they could to silence them, they kept on searching out God’s will for our day then telling others what they had found.

So tell me O wise one is it the pope or is there a greater than him?
Honey 56

Quote:
"JamesJah:80264"].

So tell me O wise one is it the pope or is there a greater than him



Why the sarcasm James and why the reluctance to answer a direct question, if this is what you truly believe why be so coy about it?

It was a genuine question.
Do the WTBTS teach you that the Man of lawlessness is the Pope, I think they do, am I correct?

What makes the catholic church any different from the WTBTS, they too think they speak for God, they also think that they are Gods only channel on the earth today, and that there is no salvation apart from them, trying to take the place of Messiah Yeshua.

That is correct isn't it James?

Honey
JamesJah

The WT Honey publishes copy write material If you do know there is no need to ask if you do not know then go on line and have a read.

http://www.jw.org/en
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
The WT Honey publishes copy write material If you do know there is no need to ask if you do not know then go on line and have a read.

http://www.jw.org/en


Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with copyright law James, does copyright law forbid you from anwering questions?

You have not denied that the WTBTS teach you that the man of lawlessness is the Pope, so do we take that as a yes James?

If we do, can you please  explain what makes the catholic church any different from the WTBTS, they too think they speak for God, they also think that they are Gods only channel on the earth today, and that there is no salvation apart from them, trying to take the place of Messiah Yeshua

Honey
JamesJah

Does the WT teach?
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?


Now then James.

Who is the man of lawlessness can you identify him ?

LeClerc



Who today thinks he speaks for God?

Who is the most venerated man on earth today who speaks for God?

Who has removed the name of God from the people?

Who is in harmony with this scripture?>>\/

2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.


Was this, “man of lawlessness” done away with by the presence of Messiah Y'shua ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?


Now then James.

Who is the man of lawlessness can you identify him ?

LeClerc



Who today thinks he speaks for God?

Who is the most venerated man on earth today who speaks for God?

Who has removed the name of God from the people?

Who is in harmony with this scripture?>>\/

2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.


Was this, “man of lawlessness” done away with by the presence of Messiah Y'shua ?

LeClerc


Moaning to LerClerc how is your eyesight, is it spiritual or physical?

When did you see this happen?

Revelation 19:15, 16
Ot of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Honey 56

James,
Can you please tell us, to whom do you think this scripture is referring?

Revelation 19:15, 16
Ot of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.



As you seperate the two, do you believe this is Jesus or God Almighty, just so we are clear?

Honey
JamesJah

When did we see you?

We kept asking him to make it plain to us

Your prophet did not make it clear for us.

We kept asking him to make it plain to us.

But he keeps on avoiding our questions.



Revelation 19:15, 16
Ot of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.

He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.

{whos wine press}

upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

who is king of kings and lord of lords but not god of gods?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
When did we see you?

We kept asking him to make it plain to us

Your prophet did not make it clear for us.

We kept asking him to make it plain to us.

But he keeps on avoiding our questions.



Revelation 19:15, 16
Ot of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.

He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.

{whos wine press}

upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

who is king of kings and lord of lords but not god of gods?




So James, without the theatricals, please.....

As you seperate the two, do you believe this is Jesus or God Almighty, just so we are clear?

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

who is king of kings and lord of lords but not god of gods?


Deuteronomy 10 NWT
17For Jehovah ​YOUR​ God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear‐inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,18executing judgment for the fatherless boy and the widow and loving the alien resident so as to give him bread and a mantle.

LeClerc
Honey 56

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

who is king of kings and lord of lords but not god of gods?


Deuteronomy 10 NWT
17For Jehovah ​YOUR​ God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear‐inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,18executing judgment for the fatherless boy and the widow and loving the alien resident so as to give him bread and a mantle.

LeClerc


Hi LeClerc

The truth is they cannot be seperated!

Honey
LeClerc

Hi Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

who is king of kings and lord of lords but not god of gods?


Deuteronomy 10 NWT
17For Jehovah ​YOUR​ God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear‐inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,18executing judgment for the fatherless boy and the widow and loving the alien resident so as to give him bread and a mantle.

LeClerc


Hi LeClerc

The truth is they cannot be seperated!

Honey


Amen sis.

In relation to the above scripture let us not forget

John 5 NWT
22For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son,

Blessings sis

LeClerc
JamesJah

What happens to the rest of the universe when Jesus takes over from Satan to rule the earth?

How will we know Satan is not still around?

Will we see him abys?

How do we know Jesus is here?
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Just asking so as to see what you will say on the matter, it helps if I know what direction some one is going in the broad road is so cluttered with debris it is some time difficult to ascertain which way some are off too.

Still if the Devil has been cast down to the earth, it should not be a surprise to the hell raiser that it is getting hot down here, should it?


Now then James.

Who is the man of lawlessness can you identify him ?

LeClerc



Who today thinks he speaks for God?

Who is the most venerated man on earth today who speaks for God?

Who has removed the name of God from the people?

Who is in harmony with this scripture?>>\/

2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.


Was this, “man of lawlessness” done away with by the presence of Messiah Y'shua ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

According to Revelation LerClerc, he is about to be removed why?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
According to Revelation LerClerc, he is about to be removed why?


You mean this did not happen in 1914  

LeClerc
JamesJah

1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Okay James lets get down to the meat.

When did the manifestation of Y'shua's presence take place, according to your teaching ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Okay James lets get down to the meat.

When did the manifestation of Y'shua's presence take place, according to your teaching ?

LeClerc


Arhter the first world war when the bible students were reliesd from prison and could get back to the work of preaching the Kingdom message.

Babylon the Great had lost her power over them, which has not returend to her since, she now continues in her fallen state, up till when she is to be done away with.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Okay James lets get down to the meat.

When did the manifestation of Y'shua's presence take place, according to your teaching ?

LeClerc


Arhter the first world war when the bible students were reliesd from prison and could get back to the work of preaching the Kingdom message.

Babylon the Great had lost her power over them, which has not returend to her since, she now continues in her fallen state, up till when she is to be done away with.


2 Thessalonians 2 NWT
8Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

According to your teaching when was the lawless brought to nothing.

After the First World War you have said. I believe World War One ended in 1918.

So what happened in 1914, and who was the lawless one who was brought to nothing ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LerClerc

Can I just suggest that you give the Revelation a quick read, so you have some idea of all the things that must take place in the time of the end then before Jesus uses the sword of his mouth?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LerClerc

Can I just suggest that you give the Revelation a quick read, so you have some idea of all the things that must take place in the time of the end then before Jesus uses the sword of his mouth?


Can I suggest you read the following passage and have an idea what it is that brings the lawless one to nothing.

2 Thessalonians 2 NWT
8Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

Now James



JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Okay James lets get down to the meat.

When did the manifestation of Y'shua's presence take place, according to your teaching ?

LeClerc


Arhter the first world war when the bible students were reliesd from prison and could get back to the work of preaching the Kingdom message.

Babylon the Great had lost her power over them, which has not returend to her since, she now continues in her fallen state, up till when she is to be done away with.


2 Thessalonians 2 NWT
8Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

According to your teaching when was the lawless brought to nothing.

After the First World War you have said. I believe World War One ended in 1918.

So what happened in 1914, and who was the lawless one who was brought to nothing ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

Matthew 24:3-14
While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?

In answer Jesus said to them: Look out that nobody misleads you; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

Then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; and

because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Honey 56

  ??????

Again?
JamesJah

We do only have the bible as our guide; Jesus always explained things to his disciples, So that they could be understood if they listened.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
We do only have the bible as our guide; Jesus always explained things to his disciples, So that they could be understood if they listened.


Yes I do understand that James and I totally agree with what you have said there.

Yes Jesus did take time to explain things to His Disciples sometimes when they were struggling, sometimes He used scripture, sometimes parables, He used the things he saw around Jim as illustrations.

But you have to remember James that you have been taught to understand these scriptures differently to some of us, and we do not always see the point of why you just post scripture, when it sometimes feels like it is out of context or a bit random for other reasons, that's why I always welcome a few words of explanation as to how you are seeing things or understanding them.

I think LeClerc's questions are valid, if we are to understand how the scriptures are seen by others, especially those in your organisation.

The scripture you quoted does attempt to answer this....

So what happened in 1914?

But not really this.......

and who was the lawless one who was brought to nothing ?  

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LerClerc

Can I just suggest that you give the Revelation a quick read, so you have some idea of all the things that must take place in the time of the end then before Jesus uses the sword of his mouth?


Can I suggest you read the following passage and have an idea what it is that brings the lawless one to nothing.

2 Thessalonians 2 NWT
8Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

Now James



JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
1914 was the beginning of the time of the end LerClerc, and the ousting of Satan from the heavens, and the start of Jesus rule among his enemies until they are made a stool for his feat and the scrolls are opened by him and the judging of the nations and false religion takes place.

The time had arrived for the Revelation to be implemented towards mankind and her kings.

Have you slept through most of it?

Revelation 12:10
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Okay James lets get down to the meat.

When did the manifestation of Y'shua's presence take place, according to your teaching ?

LeClerc


Arhter the first world war when the bible students were reliesd from prison and could get back to the work of preaching the Kingdom message.

Babylon the Great had lost her power over them, which has not returend to her since, she now continues in her fallen state, up till when she is to be done away with.


2 Thessalonians 2 NWT
8Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

According to your teaching when was the lawless brought to nothing.

After the First World War you have said. I believe World War One ended in 1918.

So what happened in 1914, and who was the lawless one who was brought to nothing ?

Maybe you would prefer the Greek.

2:8  καὶ τότε ἀποκαλυφθήσεται ὁ ἄνομος ὃν ὁ κύριος Ἰησοῦς ἀνελεῖ τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ

What does  καταργήσει mean.

LeClerc
JamesJah

What I have in my Liddell and Scott LerClerc is

>>Speak against before Judges<<

How does Jesus do this when galloping across the heavens?
Farmer Geddon

LeClerc wrote:
.............

Maybe you would prefer the Greek.

2:8  καὶ τότε ἀποκαλυφθήσεται ὁ ἄνομος ὃν ὁ κύριος Ἰησοῦς ἀνελεῖ τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ

What does  καταργήσει mean.

LeClerc


Oooooo thistle be interesting - What does "καταργήσει" mean to you in the context stated above?

( As a clue: "καταργήσει" - an amalgamation of κατά and ἀργέω).
LeClerc

JamesJah wrote:
What I have in my Liddell and Scott LerClerc is

>>Speak against before Judges<<

How does Jesus do this when galloping across the heavens?


Interesting James

http://biblesuite.com/greek/2673.htm

katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I bring to naught, sever, abolish
Definition: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from

http://biblesuite.com/greek/katarge_sei_2673.htm

καταργήσει (katargēsei) — 3 Occurrences
Romans 3:3 V-FIA-3S
BIB: τοῦ θεοῦ καταργήσει
NAS: their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness
KJV: the faith of God without effect?
INT: of God will nullify

1 Corinthians 6:13 V-FIA-3S
BIB: καὶ ταῦτα καταργήσει τὸ δὲ
NAS: but God will do away with both
KJV: but God shall destroy both it
INT: and these will bring to nought and

2 Thessalonians 2:8 V-FIA-3S
BIB: αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ
NAS: of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance
KJV: and shall destroy with the brightness
INT: of him and annul by the appearing

Now James according to WT teaching when did the voice of the Archangel take place

Quote:

1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)


LeClerc
JamesJah

Wondered where you had gone LerClerc?

Funny how the experts do go on is it not, is it to exalt themselves rather than the creator?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Wondered where you had gone LerClerc?

Funny how the experts do go on is it not, is it to exalt themselves rather than the creator?


Still no answer James

JamesJah wrote:
What I have in my Liddell and Scott LerClerc is

>>Speak against before Judges<<

How does Jesus do this when galloping across the heavens?


Interesting James

http://biblesuite.com/greek/2673.htm

katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I bring to naught, sever, abolish
Definition: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from

http://biblesuite.com/greek/katarge_sei_2673.htm

καταργήσει (katargēsei) — 3 Occurrences
Romans 3:3 V-FIA-3S
BIB: τοῦ θεοῦ καταργήσει
NAS: their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness
KJV: the faith of God without effect?
INT: of God will nullify

1 Corinthians 6:13 V-FIA-3S
BIB: καὶ ταῦτα καταργήσει τὸ δὲ
NAS: but God will do away with both
KJV: but God shall destroy both it
INT: and these will bring to nought and

2 Thessalonians 2:8 V-FIA-3S
BIB: αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ
NAS: of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance
KJV: and shall destroy with the brightness
INT: of him and annul by the appearing

Now James according to WT teaching when did the voice of the Archangel take place

Quote:

1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)


LeClerc
Honey 56

Have you ever seen this scripture James


3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ
2 Corinthians 10

We do not have to be experts, just faithful to Christ Jesus and trusting  His Holy Spirit.

Honey
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Wondered where you had gone LerClerc?

Funny how the experts do go on is it not, is it to exalt themselves rather than the creator?


Still no answer James

JamesJah wrote:
What I have in my Liddell and Scott LerClerc is

>>Speak against before Judges<<

How does Jesus do this when galloping across the heavens?


Interesting James

http://biblesuite.com/greek/2673.htm

katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I bring to naught, sever, abolish
Definition: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from

http://biblesuite.com/greek/katarge_sei_2673.htm

καταργήσει (katargēsei) — 3 Occurrences
Romans 3:3 V-FIA-3S
BIB: τοῦ θεοῦ καταργήσει
NAS: their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness
KJV: the faith of God without effect?
INT: of God will nullify

1 Corinthians 6:13 V-FIA-3S
BIB: καὶ ταῦτα καταργήσει τὸ δὲ
NAS: but God will do away with both
KJV: but God shall destroy both it
INT: and these will bring to nought and

2 Thessalonians 2:8 V-FIA-3S
BIB: αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ
NAS: of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance
KJV: and shall destroy with the brightness
INT: of him and annul by the appearing

Now James according to WT teaching when did the voice of the Archangel take place

Quote:

1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)


LeClerc


None of the above tells us how long it takes does it?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Wondered where you had gone LerClerc?

Funny how the experts do go on is it not, is it to exalt themselves rather than the creator?


Still no answer James

JamesJah wrote:
What I have in my Liddell and Scott LerClerc is

>>Speak against before Judges<<

How does Jesus do this when galloping across the heavens?


Interesting James

http://biblesuite.com/greek/2673.htm

katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I bring to naught, sever, abolish
Definition: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from

http://biblesuite.com/greek/katarge_sei_2673.htm

καταργήσει (katargēsei) — 3 Occurrences
Romans 3:3 V-FIA-3S
BIB: τοῦ θεοῦ καταργήσει
NAS: their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness
KJV: the faith of God without effect?
INT: of God will nullify

1 Corinthians 6:13 V-FIA-3S
BIB: καὶ ταῦτα καταργήσει τὸ δὲ
NAS: but God will do away with both
KJV: but God shall destroy both it
INT: and these will bring to nought and

2 Thessalonians 2:8 V-FIA-3S
BIB: αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ
NAS: of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance
KJV: and shall destroy with the brightness
INT: of him and annul by the appearing

Now James according to WT teaching when did the voice of the Archangel take place

Quote:

1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)


LeClerc


None of the above tells us how long it takes does it?


When Paul wrote his letter to the Thessalonians how long did his readers believe that ''day'' was which according to false teachers had already come ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

It depended which day they had been referring too LerClerc,  Noah's day, Lots day, or Adams day.

Or perhaps the day of Judgement??
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
It depended which day they had been referring too LerClerc,  Noah's day, Lots day, or Adams day.

Or perhaps the day of Judgement??


How would the Thessalonians have understood it since they were being taught by some that the day had already come ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LerClerc

Many had high opinions of themselves in those early days just as they do today; there are always those that look for prominence in contrast to those who are happy to see things from Jehovah’s point of view.

Jesus said it would be the meek that inherit the earth did he not?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
It depended which day they had been referring too LerClerc,  Noah's day, Lots day, or Adams day.

Or perhaps the day of Judgement??


How would the Thessalonians have understood it since they were being taught by some that the day had already come ?

Still waiting James.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Like many today LerClerc, some have their times and seasons mixed up.

Understanding how the Jewish system coming to an end and the Gentile times is quite confusing even for some intellectual Clergy today.

Still the harvest time is here the reaping of the wheat and weeds has taken place, regardless of what some have too say on the matter.
Quote:

Revelation 14:15, 16
another angel emerged from the temple [sanctuary], crying with a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud: Put your sickle in and reap, because the hour has come to reap, for the harvest of the earth is thoroughly ripe. And the one seated on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.


Nations have come against nations in two world wars and the love of many has cooled off because of the things that have come on the earth.

The man of lawlessness has been revealed, and Jehovah is bringing to ruin those ruining the earth.
Quote:

Revelation 11:18
But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.


Now which bit are you still having difficulty seeing?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

The man of lawlessness has been revealed


So who is he and when was he revealed ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LerClerc

If you can not spot him by now how much more revealing do you need?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LerClerc
If you can not spot him by now how much more revealing do you need?


Just answer the question James

Who is the man of lawlessness and when was he revealed ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Like many today LerClerc, some have their times and seasons mixed up.

Now which bit are you still having difficulty seeing?


3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,a’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.i]

This is on;ly the beginning of the end.

[i]15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—


When did we see this? What is the abomination of desolataion? what is the Holy place?

Immediately after the distress of those days“‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,and the heavenly bodies will be shaken[/i]

When did we see this?

[i]30“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other


When did we see this?
Do you suppose Jesus did not know how and in what order these things would occur? When did we see Jesus coming in power and great glory


Can you explain James why, the very people you believe to be the discreet and faithful slave, are the very ones who have tried and failed to predict the time of the Lord’s return, when He Himslef says this……..

[i]3But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.[/i]

Jesus tells us to wait and to keep watch for the signs of His coming, not try to predict when this will occur.

Honey
JamesJah

By Honey>>>
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

If you do actually read the WT you would know this happened in the time of the apostles.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LerClerc
If you can not spot him by now how much more revealing do you need?


Just answer the question James

Who is the man of lawlessness and when was he revealed ?

LeClerc


w10 9/15 p. 28 par. 13

Be patient LerClerc you will see all you need to see soon.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
By Honey>>>
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

If you do actually read the WT you would know this happened in the time of the apostles.


There are many theories surrounding this James.
Some say that it is a future event.
Some say it happened in AD70.
Some say it happened even further back in history

So what is your theory James?
What is the abomination that causes desolation and what is the Holy place?
What do the scriptures teach about this?


And will you attempt to address the rest of my post?
Honey
JamesJah

There was only one holy place until the curtain was rent in two.

Now the Dome of the Rock stands there.

There was only one time when it was possible to flee to the mountains.

Today there is only one mountain to flee too and that one is above the other mountains,

Then most JW's have done that.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection.

Micah 4:1, 2
It must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream.

Many nations will certainly go and say: Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
There was only one holy place until the curtain was rent in two.

Now the Dome of the Rock stands there.


That is what Islam thinks!


Quote:
There was only one time when it was possible to flee to the mountains.

Today there is only one mountain to flee too and that one is above the other mountains,

Then most JW's have done that


They have been hoodwinked into believing that James  but you must ask yourself this...
Would YHWH put sinful and unrepentant human beings or those who prophesy falsely in His name, in charge of His Holy Mountain?

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LerClerc
If you can not spot him by now how much more revealing do you need?


Just answer the question James

Who is the man of lawlessness and when was he revealed ?

LeClerc


w10 9/15 p. 28 par. 13

Be patient LerClerc you will see all you need to see soon.


Can you please provide a link to the above.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Sorry LerClerc I thought you had one>>

http://www.jw.org/en
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
There was only one holy place until the curtain was rent in two.

Now the Dome of the Rock stands there.


That is what Islam thinks!


Quote:
There was only one time when it was possible to flee to the mountains.

Today there is only one mountain to flee too and that one is above the other mountains,

Then most JW's have done that


They have been hoodwinked into believing that James  but you must ask yourself this...
Would YHWH put sinful and unrepentant human beings or those who prophesy falsely in His name, in charge of His Holy Mountain?

Honey


Jesus some times takes the best he can get then upgrades them.

Who do you think he could have chose, I see no one else?
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah wrote:


Today there is only one mountain to flee too and that one is above the other mountains,

Then most JW's have done that


They have been hoodwinked into believing that James  but you must ask yourself this...
Would YHWH put sinful and unrepentant human beings or those who prophesy falsely in His name, in charge of His Holy Mountain?

Honey


Quote:
Jesus some times takes the best he can get then upgrades them.

Who do you think he could have chose, I see no one else?


That is the difference James,
You would be better trusting in YHWH Himself, rather than in an organisation who claims to represent Him, but cannot even hear His voice to prophesy in His name correctly.

YHWH Himself is in charge of His Holy Mountain, unless of course you have a scripture to the contrary?

YHWH dwells in His Holy Mountain with His angels (except for the ones who were expelled, even satan was there)

In the future God's Holy mountain will descend from Heaven and will be joined here on earth into the Holy City of God.
Revelation 21.

Honey
JamesJah

Which is one of the reasons you can not be taken seriously Honey.

Tent of God has something to do with it, and having prayers that are answered does help.

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