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JamesJah

Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians

Do Trinitarians know what a vassal king is?

Psalm 2:1-12
Why have the nations been in tumult And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one, Let us tear their bands apart And cast their cords away from us!

The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.  At that time he will speak to them in his anger And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
 I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.

Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me:

You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.  Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance.
The ends of the earth as your own possession.  You will break them with an iron sceptre, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.  

Now, O kings, exercise insight; Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear And be joyful with trembling. Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed And you may not perish [from] the way, For his anger flares up easily. Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]
Honey 56

To James,
In answer to your original question

Quote:
Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians



Firstly I must correct you on one point, no where in the scripture is the word 'trinity' mentioned, however the Godhead is and the principle behind the teaching of the trinity is exactly the same.

The belief in God's word is compulsory for Christians IMO and as the scripture unerringly point to the Godhead of God the Father, Son and Holy spirit, then most Christians will make up their own mind, based on what the Holy Spririt leads them to believe.

Secondly the scriptures, if translated correctly, should surely compel us to worship the Son, to pay homage to Him and to kiss Him?


Honey
LeClerc

Re: Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

Psalm 2:1-12
Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]


Can you please post the Name of the One in whom you take refuge.

Thank you.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Can any one answer the question?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Can any one answer the question?


James, are you serious? !!!!!

Honey
LeClerc

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Can any one answer the question?


James, are you serious? !!!!!

Honey


Now I can't stop  
Jim

[quote="LeClerc:79478"][quote="Honey 56:79471"][quote="JamesJah:79470"]Can any one answer the question? [/quote]

James, are you serious? !!!!!

Honey[/quote]

Now I can't stop  [/quote]        
LeClerc

Jim and Honey

Jim wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Can any one answer the question?


James, are you serious? !!!!!

Honey


Now I can't stop          


I was alright now you have started me off again        
Honey 56

You started it LeClerc!!!!!  

Fancy answering a question with another one     !!!!!!

Honey  
LeClerc

Hi Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
You started it LeClerc!!!!!  

Fancy answering a question with another one     !!!!!!

Honey  


Maybe James didn't see it the first time will post it again maybe he will see it this time.

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

Psalm 2:1-12
Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]


Can you please post the Name of the One in whom you take refuge.



LeClerc
Jim

Here's an intriguing article...
www.godandscience.org/apologetics/megiddo_church.html
bnabernard

The thing about God sending a son, as it were a child a boy, the boy was cleverer than men, I supose that why men have this need to call the boy a man, they wont feel comfortable elsewise.

I notice Jim your reference link relates to a god rather than a God.


bernard (hug)
JamesJah

Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc


Who are the only people who worship Jehovah?
Jim

Er......
Christians, unlike quasi-Christian groups, acknowledge One, and only One, God.
I am Christian, and worship the One God, YHWH.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc


Who are the only people who worship Jehovah?


How can you claim to worship someone you don't know ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

Read your creed Jim you worship three gods in one, where as we only worship Jehovah.

Many Catholics worship also the Queen of the heavens.

They also treat Mary as a mediator.

The roots of all of Christendom.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc


Who are the only people who worship Jehovah?


How can you claim to worship someone you don't know ?

LeClerc
Jim

James; The only creed I normally read - infrequently at the ordination of an elder - is the Apostles' Creed. There is nothing there to negate the Tri-unity of God.
There is nothing in Scriptures to negate the tri-unity of God.


And why bring up mariolatry?
I am not R.C.

As far as I am aware, the R.Cs do not worship, but venerate Mary.
Since the concept is extra-scriptural, I honestly couldn't comment.
Certainly not on a thread regarding the Trinity.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc


Who are the only people who worship Jehovah?


How can you claim to worship someone you don't know ?

LeClerc


We worship him in the way he commanded with spirit and TRUTH.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Cherry pickers just pick the bits they think allow them their foolishness do they not?

Romans 1:28-32
Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.


James, are you looking at your own righteousness or YHWH our Righteousness, the One in whom those who know Him take refuge and through whom, the desires of the flesh are put to death ?

LeClerc


Who are the only people who worship Jehovah?


How can you claim to worship someone you don't know ?

LeClerc


We worship him in the way he commanded with spirit and TRUTH.


Do you give proskyneō to the Son ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

If he likes them?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
If he likes them?


I will ask again.

Do you give proskyneō to the Son ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
If he likes them?


Them?

Jesus I am sure appreciates it, He has earned and deserves it, His person and  position requires it. His disciples recognised this as we do today. As did the lowly woman who washed His feet with her tears and wiped them dry with her hair.

Jesus deserves no less from us.

Honey
LeClerc

Hi Sis

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
If he likes them?


Them?

Jesus I am sure appreciates it, He has earned and deserves it, His person and  position requires it. His disciples recognised this as we do today. As did the lowly woman who washed His feet with her tears and wiped them dry with her hair.

Jesus deserves no less from us.

Honey


Yes and amen.

Lets ask James again

Do you give proskyneō to the Son ?

Still waiting James.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Where is the Father when Jesus is ruling over the earth?
Jim

Still dodging questions the WT doesn't like you thinking about, James?
Honey 56

Why would what the WTBTS claim to be 'new light', lead from the belief that Jesus should be worshipped.....


Was he really worshipped or is the translation faulty? Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshipped, and properly so
Watchtower, July 15, 1898, p. 216


...whosoever would worship him must ALSO woship and bow down to Jehovah's chief one..namely,
Christ Jesus...
3Watchtower, October 15, 1945, p. 313


To worship being for YHWH only?

This is more like a step backwards according to the scriptures!

Didn't YHWH command all of His angels to worship Jesus?

Wasn't Jesus happy to accept worship from His disciples and others?

Honey
JamesJah

Who is ALMIGHTY GOD ruler of the universe?

Exodus 6:2, 3
God went on to speak to Moses and to say to him: “I am Jehovah. And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.

Who is Jesus?

Luke 1:35
Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, God’s Son.


What is Holy Spirit?

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of  watery deep; and God’s spirit was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

Who is not obedient to the highest authority?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
LeClerc

Hi James
JamesJah wrote:
Who is ALMIGHTY GOD ruler of the universe?


Zechariah 14
16 καὶ ἔσται ὅσοι ἐὰν καταλειφθῶσιν ἐκ πάντων τῶν ἐθνῶν τῶν ἐλθόντων ἐπὶ Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἀναβήσονται κατ᾽ ἐνιαυτὸν τοῦ προσκυνῆσαι τῷ βασιλεῖ κυρίῳ παντοκράτορι καὶ τοῦ ἑορτάζειν τὴν ἑορτὴν τῆς σκηνοπηγίας

What is the Name of the Almighty in the above passage James ?

LeClerc
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Where is the Father when Jesus is ruling over the earth?


If you knew who the Spirit of Christ is then you would know where The Father is when Y'shua is ruling over the earth.

Since it appears that you do not know who The Spirit of Christ is ( since this has been removed from the NWT)  then it comes as no suprise that you do not know where the Father is when Y'shua is ruling over the earth.

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James
JamesJah wrote:
Who is ALMIGHTY GOD ruler of the universe?


Zechariah 14
16 καὶ ἔσται ὅσοι ἐὰν καταλειφθῶσιν ἐκ πάντων τῶν ἐθνῶν τῶν ἐλθόντων ἐπὶ Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἀναβήσονται κατ᾽ ἐνιαυτὸν τοῦ προσκυνῆσαι τῷ βασιλεῖ κυρίῳ παντοκράτορι καὶ τοῦ ἑορτάζειν τὴν ἑορτὴν τῆς σκηνοπηγίας

What is the Name of the Almighty in the above passage James ?

LeClerc


Very novel LerClerc

Who is King of Kings and Lord of lords, and who is Jesus Father?

All that Greek is scrambling you brain how about trying to find out where the faithful slave is today and the mountain that is above all the mountains?
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Where is the Father when Jesus is ruling over the earth?


If you knew who the Spirit of Christ is then you would know where The Father is when Y'shua is ruling over the earth.

Since it appears that you do not know who The Spirit of Christ is ( since this has been removed from the NWT)  then it comes as no suprise that you do not know where the Father is when Y'shua is ruling over the earth.

LeClerc


Did Jesus ever say which one he was sending?

Was it the spirit of truth as against the spirit of error that rests in the sons of perdition?
LeClerc

Hi James
JamesJah wrote:
Who is ALMIGHTY GOD ruler of the universe?


Zechariah 14
16 καὶ ἔσται ὅσοι ἐὰν καταλειφθῶσιν ἐκ πάντων τῶν ἐθνῶν τῶν ἐλθόντων ἐπὶ Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἀναβήσονται κατ᾽ ἐνιαυτὸν τοῦ προσκυνῆσαι τῷ βασιλεῖ κυρίῳ παντοκράτορι καὶ τοῦ ἑορτάζειν τὴν ἑορτὴν τῆς σκηνοπηγίας

What is the Name of the Almighty in the above passage James ?

Still stuck for answers James ??

LeClerc
JamesJah

The short time I have been on this planet I have discovered how to tell the difference between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error, I use the same method Jesus used it is very effective you should try it some time.
LeClerc

Hi James
JamesJah wrote:
Who is ALMIGHTY GOD ruler of the universe?


Zechariah 14
16 καὶ ἔσται ὅσοι ἐὰν καταλειφθῶσιν ἐκ πάντων τῶν ἐθνῶν τῶν ἐλθόντων ἐπὶ Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἀναβήσονται κατ᾽ ἐνιαυτὸν τοῦ προσκυνῆσαι τῷ βασιλεῖ κυρίῳ παντοκράτορι καὶ τοῦ ἑορτάζειν τὴν ἑορτὴν τῆς σκηνοπηγίας

What is the Name of the Almighty in the above passage James ?

Still stuck for answers James ??

LeClerc
JamesJah

God of gods, is not there either but it is in another place, which is why I do not have the Babylonian teaching of the trinity.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
God of gods, is not there either but it is in another place, which is why I do not have the Babylonian teaching of the trinity.



For goodness sake James, it is King *YHWH* Almighty

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.


They are going to worship Him too.

And your problem with this is?

Honey
JamesJah

Who is the priest in Jehovah's temple, and where is it located?
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah wrote:
God of gods, is not there either but it is in another place, which is why I do not have the Babylonian teaching of the trinity.




For goodness sake James, it is King *YHWH* Almighty

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

They are going to worship Him too.

What is your problem with this?

Honey
JamesJah

Acts 4:11, 12
This is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner. Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Acts 4:11, 12
This is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner. Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.


That is what we have been saying all along James!

Do you not agree with this teaching now then James...

"Your attitude toward the wheatlike annointed brothers of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into everlasting life."
The Watchtower, August 1, 1981, p. 26


Honey
JamesJah

You have been so busy finding fault with what the WT has to say, you have omitted to discover the sacred secret of the judgement, which could stop you shearing the fate of the goats at the end of this system.
Jim

But we WON'T, James.
We have the certainty of our salvation through the confession of Christ as our Risen Lord.
Or haven't you read Romans 10:9.
No jumping through hoops.
No scripture twists-r-us.
Nothing.
Just in simple, complete trust confess the LORD Jesus, Risen, and accept His salvation.
Simple.
JamesJah

How does this fit im with your idea of judgement Jim?

James 5:1-6
Come, now, you rich, weep, howling over your miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted, and your outer garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are rusted away, and their rust will be as a witness against you and will eat your fleshy parts. Something like fire is what you have stored up in the last days. Look! The wages due the workers who harvested your fields but which are held up by you, keep crying out, and the calls for help on the part of the reapers have entered into the ears of Jehovah of armies. you have lived in luxury upon the earth and have gone in for sensual pleasure. You have fattened your hearts on the day of slaughter. you have condemned, you have murdered the righteous one. Is he not opposing you?
JamesJah

James 1:26, 27
If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man’s form of worship is futile.

The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Jim

James;
There is simply no issue.
Jesus becomes our guarantee, our justification, because He takes the punishment we deserve.
As you well know, the wages of sin is death.
That is our penalty.
But God's free gift is eternal life!
That free gift is ours for the taking, without any other action.
Simply through trusting in Christ as our LORD and Saviour, and accepting His Resurrection.
That is a promise from God.
And I've never yet known God go back on His promises.
bnabernard

You haven't? how about the promise He made to Abraham, at one point it was only the intevention of Moses that saved any remnant?
And by todays christian teaching that promise was given up to a fine print by the christian?

So what is the problem regarding these promises?

bernard (hug)
Ketty

bnabernard wrote:
. . .how about the promise He made to Abraham, at one point it was only the intevention of Moses that saved any remnant?
. . .


Bernie, what promises did He break?
Honey 56

Quote:
"bnabernard:79906"]
And by todays christian teaching that promise was given up to a fine print by the christian

bernard (hug)


How? and what teaching Bernard?

Would you include yourself in this statement?

Honey
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
James;
There is simply no issue.
Jesus becomes our guarantee, our justification, because He takes the punishment we deserve.
As you well know, the wages of sin is death.
That is our penalty.
But God's free gift is eternal life!
That free gift is ours for the taking, without any other action.
Simply through trusting in Christ as our LORD and Saviour, and accepting His Resurrection.
That is a promise from God.
And I've never yet known God go back on His promises.


Why did Jesus say this if what you say is true?

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.

How about the goats at Matthew 25: 37 onwards?
Honey 56

James.
You missed the first part of this scripture, it will answer your question as to why....

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Now you have to answer who?

Who is a false prophet today?

Who has prophesied; armageddon, the Lords coming, return of the prophets etc and they have not come to pass?

What is God's judgement concerning people who presume to speak in His name, and what they speak does not come to pass?


Honey
Honey 56

James,
in the scripture you quoted Jesus says, that only those doing the will of His Father, What is God's wll?, what does He really want?


Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent

John 6

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

Our response to this  should be, to take this testimony into all the world and make disciples for Christ Jesus. For there is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved.

Honey
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
James.
You missed the first part of this scripture, it will answer your question as to why....

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Now you have to answer who?

Who is a false prophet today?

Who has prophesied; armageddon, the Lords coming, return of the prophets etc and they have not come to pass?

What is God's judgement concerning people who presume to speak in His name, and what they speak does not come to pass?


Honey


You are still quoting the lords coming when the scripture says presence.

And Armageddon has still to come regardless of what you have to say on the matter, in Fact it was only JW's eho became aware of all the events that would lead up to the Great day of God the Almighty.

It is the Anti JW's that keep trying to fog the issues so that people who could escape are being prevented by the apostates of this world.

Matthew 23:13, 14
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in.
Jim

Try reading both texts in context, bearing mind Jesus' audience, and the setting.
Jim

Blast!
You beat me to it, Honey!
The trouble with scripture quoting is that when you take it out of context it starts the cycle of scripture twisting!
JamesJah

Who is the Ancient of Days, and who is getting made King?

Daniel 7:13, 14
I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given ruler-ship and dignity and kingdom that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His ruler-ship is an indefinitely lasting ruler-ship that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.
Jim

Good grief!
You haven't dealt with the context of the scriptures YOU quoted, before posting another one?
Nothing changes.
Honey 56

Jim wrote:
Blast!
You beat me to it, Honey!
The trouble with scripture quoting is that when you take it out of context it starts the cycle of scripture twisting!


I am so sorry Jim!!! ( a Godincidence)

But as usual I couldn't agree more.
When taken out of context the scriptures can indeed be made to say almost anything, it is a great problem with the WTBTS because not only do they quote scripture out of context, often just one or two verses at a time, but they also do this with their 'expert witnesses', those people they quote partially to give the impression that these 'experts' are agreeing with their teaching, when in actually fact when the whole quote is looked at in detail, quite the opposite is almost always true!

Sorry again bro  

Honey
Honey 56

Quote:
"JamesJah:79922

You are still quoting the lords coming when the scripture says presence
.

Not quite true, that word can be translated either way, coming or presence depending on the context and evidence surrounding it's use. Jesus promised to return, and when He did, every eye would see Him, He has not returned yet, there are still prophesies regarding Israel and signs that will accompany Jesus' return that we are still waiting for. The only reason that the NWT translate the word as presence is because it then fits in with their wrong teaching regarding Jesus' return, which was done in secret and invisibly    according to them! This makes Jesus out to be untruthful and that He is definitely not.
The WTBTS also teach that the first resurrection has already happened, again invisibly and in secret, which of course is absolute nonsense!

Quote:
And Armageddon has still to come regardless of what you have to say on the matter, in Fact it was only JW's eho became aware of all the events that would lead up to the Great day of God the Almighty.


Well according to the WTBTS it has already happened several times over, except of course it hasn't yet has it? this despite Jesus stating when He was here with us, that no one knew the time or date, apart from the Father. Many have forfeited marriage, children and often their livelihoods on the strength of these false prophesies.

Quote:
]It is the Anti JW's that keep trying to fog the issues so that people who could escape are being prevented by the apostates of this world.


I am not anti J.W,  most of them are dreadfully mislead (except for the ones who have heard the truth and ignore it of course, they are wilfully misleading others), I am anti the organistaion who is feeding them this false teaching. I am anti the deceiver, who they are either willfully or unwittingly serving, Jesus warned that he was a liar from the beginning.

Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through Him, for there is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved.
I cannot stress that enough James!

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:

And Armageddon has still to come regardless of what you have to say on the matter, in


Does Armageddon come after the Tribulation or before it James ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

I would think a person would have to be living in England to be able to ask a question like that LerClerc, what do you think If Armageddon is the final war,between the kings of the earth and Almighty Gods Champion?

Who is  Almighty Gods Champion?

Have you counted how many of the seven last plagues’ we have seen so far so how many left to come?
Honey 56

Just to warn everyone, please do not click on the blue highlighted text in James Jah's posts, it is a link to a site which will attack your computer, mine was only protected by my Norton 360.

James, why have you highlighted parts of your texts to link to a site which will attack computers?

Please stop this now, or I will report you to the moderators!

Honey
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
I would think a person would have to be living in England to be able to ask a question like that LerClerc, what do you think If Armageddon is the final war,between the kings of the earth and Almighty Gods Champion?

Who is  Almighty Gods Champion?

Have you counted how many of the seven last plagues’ we have seen so far so how many left to come?


Matthew 24
26Therefore, if people say to ​YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Now then James what does Y'shua mean when he says 27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts

LeClerc
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
I would think a person would have to be living in England to be able to ask a question like that LerClerc, what do you think If Armageddon is the final war,between the kings of the earth and Almighty Gods Champion?

Who is  Almighty Gods Champion?

Have you counted how many of the seven last plagues’ we have seen so far so how many left to come?


Matthew 24
26Therefore, if people say to ​YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Now then James what does Y'shua mean when he says 27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts

LeClerc


The same type of meaning as this one here, what did they actually see?

Matthew 4:16, 17
The people sitting in darkness saw a great light, and as for those sitting in a region of deathly shadow, light rose upon them. From that time on Jesus commenced preaching and saying: Repent, you people, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Just to warn everyone, please do not click on the blue highlighted text in James Jah's posts, it is a link to a site which will attack your computer, mine was only protected by my Norton 360.

James, why have you highlighted parts of your texts to link to a site which will attack computers?

Please stop this now, or I will report you to the moderators!

Honey


What are you on Honey where is the post you speak of ?????????????????

Is the truth getting too much for you to handle?
Honey 56

Just to warn everyone, please do not click on the blue highlighted text in James Jah's or my posts, it is a link to a site which will attack your computer, mine was only protected by my Norton 360.

The key words which are highlighted are linked to a site concerning work from home.

After logging off, running security scans and restarting my computer I seemed to have cleared my computer.

James I am sorry that I blamed you for the problem, please accept my sincere apologies.

Honey
Honey 56

The problem seems to have reappeared.
James, please look at your OP at the word exercise, is it highlighted and underlined in blue text?
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Just to warn everyone, please do not click on the blue highlighted text in James Jah's or my posts, it is a link to a site which will attack your computer, mine was only protected by my Norton 360.

The key words which are highlighted are linked to a site concerning work from home.

After logging off, running security scans and restarting my computer I seemed to have cleared my computer.

James I am sorry that I blamed you for the problem, please accept my sincere apologies.

Honey


OK Honey apology accepted, my technology is not that far advanced. With the latest Microsoft windows programs it is even more difficult to get at planted files oneself and hook them out, then most of the iffy files get into the [exe ] department .
JamesJah

Re: Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians

JamesJah wrote:
Do Trinitarians know what a vassal king is?

Psalm 2:1-12
Why have the nations been in tumult And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one, Let us tear their bands apart And cast their cords away from us!

The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.  At that time he will speak to them in his anger And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
 I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.

Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me:

You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.  Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance.
The ends of the earth as your own possession.  You will break them with an iron sceptre, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.  

Now, O kings, exercise insight; Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear And be joyful with trembling. Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed And you may not perish [from] the way, For his anger flares up easily. Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]


This is the original unless you know better Honey?
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
I would think a person would have to be living in England to be able to ask a question like that LerClerc, what do you think If Armageddon is the final war,between the kings of the earth and Almighty Gods Champion?

Who is  Almighty Gods Champion?

Have you counted how many of the seven last plagues’ we have seen so far so how many left to come?


Matthew 24
26Therefore, if people say to ​YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Now then James what does Y'shua mean when he says 27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts

LeClerc


The same type of meaning as this one here, what did they actually see?

Matthew 4:16, 17
The people sitting in darkness saw a great light, and as for those sitting in a region of deathly shadow, light rose upon them. From that time on Jesus commenced preaching and saying: Repent, you people, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.


Did they see Y'shua preaching ''repent you people for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near ?''

Did they see Y'shua ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

Re: Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians

JamesJah wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Do Trinitarians know what a vassal king is?

Psalm 2:1-12
Why have the nations been in tumult And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one, Let us tear their bands apart And cast their cords away from us!

The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.  At that time he will speak to them in his anger And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
 I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.

Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me:

You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.  Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance.
The ends of the earth as your own possession.  You will break them with an iron sceptre, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.  

Now, O kings, exercise insight; Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear And be joyful with trembling. Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed And you may not perish [from] the way, For his anger flares up easily. Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]


This is the original unless you know better Honey?


Yes that's right.
are the words father and exercise underlined and highlighted in blue when they appear on your screen?

If so. I wouldn't click on them! that is the mistake I made and I can't get rid of it now!

Honey
JamesJah

Re: Is the Trinity compulsory for Christians

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Do Trinitarians know what a vassal king is?

Psalm 2:1-12
Why have the nations been in tumult And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one, Let us tear their bands apart And cast their cords away from us!

The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them in derision.  At that time he will speak to them in his anger And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,
 I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.

Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me:

You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.  Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance.
The ends of the earth as your own possession.  You will break them with an iron sceptre, as though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.  

Now, O kings, exercise insight; Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear And be joyful with trembling. Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed And you may not perish [from] the way, For his anger flares up easily. Happy are all those taking refuge in him.
[English to English version by JJ]


This is the original unless you know better Honey?


Yes that's right.
are the words father and exercise underlined and highlighted in blue when they appear on your screen?

If so. I wouldn't click on them! that is the mistake I made and I can't get rid of it now!

Honey


No Honey they are not and I have difficulty doing any of the HTML on here except for the bold.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
I would think a person would have to be living in England to be able to ask a question like that LerClerc, what do you think If Armageddon is the final war,between the kings of the earth and Almighty Gods Champion?

Who is  Almighty Gods Champion?

Have you counted how many of the seven last plagues’ we have seen so far so how many left to come?


Matthew 24
26Therefore, if people say to ​YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Now then James what does Y'shua mean when he says 27For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts

LeClerc


The same type of meaning as this one here, what did they actually see?

Matthew 4:16, 17
The people sitting in darkness saw a great light, and as for those sitting in a region of deathly shadow, light rose upon them. From that time on Jesus commenced preaching and saying: Repent, you people, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.


Did they see Y'shua preaching ''repent you people for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near ?''

Did they see Y'shua ?

LeClerc


Have you seen him doing a world wide work LerClerc, or are you one of those saying when did we see you?
bnabernard

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
JamesJah

I bet it is only JW.s who know what he meant.
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah:79954"
Have you seen him doing a world wide work LerClerc, or are you one of those saying when did we see you?



People have been taking the gospel message out into the entire world since Jesus gave His disciple the great commission to do so, this work has been and is still ongoing since the Apostles started it at pentecost.
It is not a new thing at all James, and it was going on before thw WTBTS was even thought of, faithful Christians have been sharing the true gospel of Christ Jesus since He returned to His Father.
And when He returns in glory with His angels, we shall see Him, every eye, just as He promised.

Honey
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
I bet it is only JW.s who know what he meant.


Well you perhaps you should enlighten Bernard, because like us, he isn't one either?

Honey
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah wrote:
God of gods, is not there either but it is in another place, which is why I do not have the Babylonian teaching of the trinity.




For goodness sake James, it is King *YHWH* Almighty

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

They are going to worship Him too.

And your problem with this is?

Honey

Do you have any comment at all about the scripture at Zechariah? and to whom it is referring?
Ketty

In Christ Jesus, what is this thread now achieving?    
Honey 56

Ketty wrote:
In Christ Jesus, what is this thread now achieving?    


15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

Honey  
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Quote:
JamesJah wrote:
God of gods, is not there either but it is in another place, which is why I do not have the Babylonian teaching of the trinity.




For goodness sake James, it is King *YHWH* Almighty

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

They are going to worship Him too.

And your problem with this is?

Honey

Do you have any comment at all about the scripture at Zechariah? and to whom it is referring?


It is referring to Jehovah's witnesses who assemble once a year before Jehovah, so that he can pore out his spirit on them like pouring rain,  all can then be a blessed people.
Honey 56

Quote:
"JamesJah:80001"

It is referring to Jehovah's witnesses who assemble once a year before Jehovah, so that he can pore out his spirit on them like pouring rain,  all can then be a blessed people.

I think you may have misunderstood the question James, so for clarity.

Who is 'The King *YHWH* Almighty' , who is referred to in this scripture....

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles


Honey
JamesJah

No you just miss understood the answer.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
No you just miss understood the answer.


I understood the answer that you gave, I just don't agree with it.
But it did not answer the question I asked you James,


Who is 'The King *YHWH* Almighty' , who is referred to in this scripture....

Zechariah 14:16
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the *LORD* Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

I do understand why you can't answer this honestly James, it goes against everything the WTBTS have taught you, doesn't it?

But in the end you are just fooling yourself.

Honey
JamesJah

God sais one thing you can not accept that is not my problem it is yours, honey.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
God sais one thing you can not accept that is not my problem it is yours, honey.


What is the one thing God said that I cannot accept, according to you James?

Honey
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
God sais one thing you can not accept that is not my problem it is yours, honey.


What is the one thing God said that I cannot accept, according to you James?

Honey


Jeremiah 16:20, 21
Can earthling man make for himself gods when they are no gods? Therefore here I am causing them to know; at this one time I shall cause them to know my hand and my mightiness, and they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.

Where the three in one God here?

Matthew 26:39
And going a little way forward, he fell upon his face, praying and saying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.
Honey 56

[quote="JamesJah:80027"]
Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
God sais one thing you can not accept that is not my problem it is yours, honey.


What is the one thing God said that I cannot accept, according to you James?

Honey


Quote:
Jeremiah 16:20, 21
Can earthling man make for himself gods when they are no gods? Therefore here I am causing them to know; at this one time I shall cause them to know my hand and my mightiness, and they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.

Where the three in one God here?


Where and who are the 'other gods' that the WTBTS ecourage you to walk after.
Polytheism?

Honey
Honey 56

Hear, O Israel:
The LORD (YHWH)  
our God (El-0-Him/plural),
the LORD (YHWH)
is one (Echad/united)
LeClerc

Hi Sis

[quote="Honey 56:80045"]
JamesJah wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
God sais one thing you can not accept that is not my problem it is yours, honey.


What is the one thing God said that I cannot accept, according to you James?

Honey


Quote:
Jeremiah 16:20, 21
Can earthling man make for himself gods when they are no gods? Therefore here I am causing them to know; at this one time I shall cause them to know my hand and my mightiness, and they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.

Where the three in one God here?


Where and who are the 'other gods' that the WTBTS ecourage you to walk after.
Polytheism?

Honey


Very true sis, the WTBTS teach polytheism.

LeClerc
bnabernard

freely given us in the One he loves.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
freely given us in the One he loves.

bernard (hug)


Isaiah 54
4 Don’t be afraid, for you won’t be ashamed;
don’t be discouraged, for you won’t be disgraced.
You will forget the shame of your youth,
no longer remember the dishonor of being widowed.
5 For your husband is your Maker,
Adonai-Tzva’ot is his name.
The Holy One of Isra’el is your Redeemer.
He will be called the God of all the earth.



LeClerc
JamesJah

Yep but you call him a Trinity do you not?

What was the bit about the left hand giving to the right hand?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,

That [ALMIGHTY]  God may be all things to everyone.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Yep but you call him a Trinity do you not?

What was the bit about the left hand giving to the right hand?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,

That [ALMIGHTY]  God may be all things to everyone.


Have not mentioned that word James it is you who keeps bringing it up.

Now James, put both you hands under your feet, now try doing something.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Ain't that called a hand stand?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Ain't that called a hand stand?

bernard (hug)


     
JamesJah

That is the only way I could do one in the old days.

Beats passing my ruler-ship from one had to another.
LeClerc

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Yep but you call him a Trinity do you not?

What was the bit about the left hand giving to the right hand?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,

That [ALMIGHTY]  God may be all things to everyone.


There you go James mentioning that word which I have never mentioned apart from when I have quoted your posts containing it.

YHWH is Israel's Father.

YHWH is Israel's Husband.

Is the Husband subject to the Father ?

LeClerc

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