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Honey 56

John 1:14

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Who is this 'Word' or'Logos'?

What do the scriptures really teach about this?

Honey
LeClerc

Re: John 1:14

Hi Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Who is this 'Word' or'Logos'?

What do the scriptures really teach about this?

Honey


In the following passage we are taught that the Logos (The Word) appeared in a vision and spoke.

Genesis 15
15 Some time later the word of YHWH came to Avram in a vision: “Don’t be afraid, Avram. I am your protector; your reward will be very great.”

LeClerc
bnabernard

How does one see the invisible.

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Does the son understand the Father

Rom 1:20   For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Do those who have seen the son give honour to the invisible Father

1Ti 1:15   This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.  


1Ti 1:16   Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.  


1Ti 1:17   Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.  


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
How does one see the invisible.
bernard (hug)


Do we see life or the manifestation of life ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Very Good,

What is life?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Very Good,

What is life?

bernard (hug)


John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh is no help. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and life, 64 yet some among you do not trust.” (For Yeshua knew from the outset which ones would not trust him, also which one would betray him.)

Can transcription and translation take place when life is absent ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Are you saying that it was the words of Yeshua that were life or Yeshua himself that were life in this quote from scripture.
That from him came the Word?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Are you saying that it was the words of Yeshua that were life or Yeshua himself that were life in this quote from scripture.
That from him came the Word?

bernard (hug)


Are you asking the same question as these Bernie ?

John 6
52 At this, the Judeans disputed with one another, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Are you saying that it was the words of Yeshua that were life or Yeshua himself that were life in this quote from scripture.
That from him came the Word?

bernard (hug)


Are you asking the same question as these Bernie ?

John 6
52 At this, the Judeans disputed with one another, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

LeClerc


I'm asking my own questions, are you not able to give an answer?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

This is what scripture teaches about who the Word/Logos is.....


1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our joy complete.

1 John.

The Word/Logos is Messiah Yeshua.

This scripture says He was from the beginning.

So according to scripture where did the Word/Logos come from?

Honey
bnabernard

You tell me Honey

Quote:
The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and life, 64 yet some among you do not trust


bernard (hug)
Honey 56

bnabernard wrote:
You tell me Honey

Quote:
The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and life, 64 yet some among you do not trust


bernard (hug)


Well Berrnard I don't need to tell you anything, the clue is in the scripture itself....


The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The answers are all there, all we need to do is seek the truth.

Honey
bnabernard

Yes, he came from the father and testifies the same when he says that the Father sent him, which by any standard seperate from the Father and quite ligitimately the son as in Father and son two seperate entities.

In fact the son refers to himself as a temple, and we know the temple houses the word of God that is given to be kept in the temple.

Of course we could examine the son and compare him to a ventriloquist dummy and having no mind of his own, but then he would be without freedom of choice and an attempt to tempt him would be worthless, which satan obviously recognised as possible in his temptation.

So what does the son teach that is life, the word of God, and where did he learn the word of God, did he not say that he does nothing lest the Father has shown him?

So we can be certain of one thing, God Almighty is Father and the teacher of the son.nd lest we are unsure sons word for it when he says 'only the Father knows'.

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Scripture teaches this about the Word.......

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
John1.


Messiah Yeshua's disciples testify that He is the Word

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.


Honey
Honey 56

The scriptures also teach us that The Word is the creator....

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.** 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
John 1.



You alone are the LORD.(YHWH) You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them.**You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.
Nehemiah 9:6
bnabernard

Honey 56 wrote:
The scriptures also teach us that The Word is the creator....

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.** 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
John 1.



You alone are the LORD.(YHWH) You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them.**[b]You give life to everything[/b], and the multitudes of heaven worship you.
Nehemiah 9:6


So God was alone and He gave life to a son, whats the problem then? and as the son says, who was taught by the Father and did nothing lest his Father shewed him and refered to the Father as being in heaven, he was the son of God according to those that beleived in him through the things that his Father shewed him.
And did he deny being the son of God,

Jhn 1:34 KJV - 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 10:36 KJV - 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning sis  

Honey 56 wrote:
Scripture teaches this about the Word.......

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
John1.


Messiah Yeshua's disciples testify that He is the Word

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.


Honey


The two passages of scripture you have quoted should answer all of Bernie's questions.  

Bernie just one question.

Was The Father ever destitute of eternal life ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

Quote:
The two passages of scripture you have quoted should answer all of Bernie's questions
.  

Hi Bro.  
We have now established that Messiah Yeshua was begotten and not created.

He is uniquely Gods Son, a one off, the only begotten of the Father.

Allelujah!    

Honey
Honey 56

Bernard says that Messiah Yeshuah was God's son, that is correct, Yeshuah was God's only begotten son.

But in quite rightly  claiming this, what was Yeshuah also claiming?........

For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:18



"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 10:33 "



The Pharisees and Saducees understood this only too well, it amazes me how still today some have not been able to grasp this simple fact?

Honey.
Honey 56

Messiah Yeshuah was comfortable with forgiving peoples sins, why is that unusual?........

3Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” He said to the paralytic, 11“I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”


Could it be that the religious leader of the day, knew and believed their scriptures?

Help us, O God our Savior, for the glory of your name; deliver us and forgive our sins for your name's sake.
Psalm 79


Honey
bnabernard

Well at last we are in agreement on the fact that the Father had a son.

All you have to do now is consider what awareness is.

And to do that we might consider Leclercs question.:-
Was The Father ever destitute of eternal life ?

And perhaps refer to the question I asked some time back:-

Did God create life.

Would anybody like to refresh there answer to my question in the light of Leclercs question.
Or if they have not previously given an opinion, perhaps give one now.


bernard (hug)

Consider the lilly.
Honey 56

Bernard asks... "Did God create life?"

The answers are in the scriptures.....

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.** 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
John 1.



You alone are the LORD.(YHWH) You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them.**You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.
Nehemiah 9:6


Life is in YHWH, and so He created all life on earth by His Word.

Honey
Honey 56

Was YHWH ever destitute of eternal life….?

I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1
:8

The Lord God (YHWH) exists from the beginning to the end, therefore there is nothing before or after. He is according to this scripture, Almighty.

Here is an intriguing question, Who, according to scripture, is and was and is to come  (The Almighty?)

Honey
bnabernard

Reading your scriture I conclude that God is life and that He imparted what is His to creation, the life remains God and uncreated whether there is creation or not.

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

bnabernard wrote:
Reading your scriture I conclude that God is life and that He imparted what is His to creation, the life remains God and uncreated whether there is creation or not.

bernard (hug)


Yes indeed Bernard  
But the absolutely wonderful thing (to me)  is that the El-O-Him, desired to create, He desired a human race to fellowship with and He created a perfect environment for all of this to happen. And even when humanity went against Him and fell from grace, He immediately put a rescue plan in operation.
Genesis 3:15.

He loves us, He desires a relationship with us, even though we are sinful and disobedient, that is why He took on flesh and came to rescue humanity and take the punishment that is so rightly ours. So that we could be reconciled back to Him.
Isaiah 53.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son"

Honey
Honey 56

Here is an intriguing question. Who, according to scripture, is and was and is to come (The Almighty?)

1This is what the Lord (YHWH) says:
“Be just and fair to all.
Do what is right and good,
for I am coming soon to rescue you
and to display my righteousness among you.
Isaiah 56


12“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star
Revelation 22.



 else

Honey
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well at last we are in agreement on the fact that the Father had a son.

All you have to do now is consider what awareness is.

And to do that we might consider Leclercs question.:-
Was The Father ever destitute of eternal life ?

And perhaps refer to the question I asked some time back:-

Did God create life.

Would anybody like to refresh there answer to my question in the light of Leclercs question.
Or if they have not previously given an opinion, perhaps give one now.


bernard (hug)

Consider the lilly.


Can the Father be Father without a Son ?

LeClerc
cyberman

Re: John 1:14

LeClerc wrote:

In the following passage we are taught that the Logos (The Word) appeared in a vision and spoke.

Genesis 15
15 Some time later the word of YHWH came to Avram in a vision: “Don’t be afraid, Avram. I am your protector; your reward will be very great.”

LeClerc


Could you check this reference, please?
bnabernard

Can a father be a father and not have a son?

Potential?
I will be a father unto them.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: John 1:14

Hi Cyberman

cyberman wrote:
LeClerc wrote:

In the following passage we are taught that the Logos (The Word) appeared in a vision and spoke.

Genesis 15
15 Some time later the word of YHWH came to Avram in a vision: “Don’t be afraid, Avram. I am your protector; your reward will be very great.”

LeClerc


Could you check this reference, please?


Thanks Cyberman, it should be Genesis 15 verse 1, sorry my mistake.

LeClerc
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Can a father be a father and not have a son?

Potential?
I will be a father unto them.

bernard (hug)


Is there not also a condition attached.

“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.

LeClerc
bnabernard

What seperates a Father from his son?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What seperates a Father from his son?

bernard (hug)


Which Son and Father are you referring too ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Is there a specific that makes one son and father relationship any different from another?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Is there a specific that makes one son and father relationship any different from another?

bernard (hug)


Indeed there is Bernie, are you not aware ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

I await my enlightenment when you feel you have the time.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I await my enlightenment when you feel you have the time.

bernard (hug)


The time is yours Bernie to search the scriptures for the answer you seek.

LeClerc
Honey 56

Messiah Yeshua is The Only Begotten of YHWH (therefore their relationship is unique, a one off)......

monogenés: only begotten
Original Word: μονογενής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: monogenés
Phonetic Spelling: (mon-og-en-ace')
Short Definition: only, only-begotten, unique
Definition: only, only-begotten; unique.



monogenḗs (from 3411 /misthōtós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind)
compare....

gennaó: to beget, to bring forth
Original Word: γεννάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: gennaó
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-nah'-o)
Short Definition: I beget, bring forth, give birth to
Definition: I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.


Honey
LeClerc

Hi Sis

Honey 56 wrote:
Messiah Yeshua is The Only Begotten of YHWH (therefore their relationship is unique, a one off)......

monogenés: only begotten
Original Word: μονογενής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: monogenés
Phonetic Spelling: (mon-og-en-ace')
Short Definition: only, only-begotten, unique
Definition: only, only-begotten; unique.



monogenḗs (from 3411 /misthōtós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind)
compare....

gennaó: to beget, to bring forth
Original Word: γεννάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: gennaó
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-nah'-o)
Short Definition: I beget, bring forth, give birth to
Definition: I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.


Honey


Maybe the time has come to ask Bernie the question.

Proverbs 30
4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has cupped the wind in the palms of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name?
Surely you know!


bnabernard

If you want to know their blindness, put your hands upon (your) eyes - your robe - and say what you see."

But when I had done it, I did not see anything. I said "No one sees (this way)."

Again he told me, "Do it again."

And there came in me fear with joy, for I saw a new light greater than the light of day. Then it came down upon the Savior. And I told him about those things which I saw.
Farmer Geddon

LeClerc wrote:
Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What separates a Father from his son?

bernard (hug)


Which Son and Father are you referring too ?

LeClerc


It's a perfectly legitimate question..


Do you believe that the "Father" is separate from the "son"?

For example: The Father neglects to 'teach' the "Sun", until the 'son' has matured?

Unless the father is already the "Sun"?

Then we flirt with the "Lunatics"!!

Throw in the "Wanderers", then it gets tooooooo confusing!!

Who are the Lunatics?
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
If you want to know their blindness, put your hands upon (your) eyes - your robe - and say what you see."

But when I had done it, I did not see anything. I said "No one sees (this way)."

Again he told me, "Do it again."

And there came in me fear with joy, for I saw a new light greater than the light of day. Then it came down upon the Savior. And I told him about those things which I saw.


Are you one who calls himself a Gnostic ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

It alone [is eternal] since It does not need [anything.] For It is totally perfect. [It] does not [lack] anything such that [anything] would perfect It, [but] It is [al]ways completely perfect in [light]. It can­not be [limi]ted because there is nothing [before It] to limit It. [It is] inscrut[able because there] is no one who exists before It [to scrutinine It.] [It is im]measurable because there is nothing [which exists before It to measure] It. [It is] in[visible because there is] no one to see [It. It is an eternity existing] eternally. [It is ineffable because] there is no one able to comprehend It in order to sp[eak about It.] It is [un]nameable because [there is no one before It] to name [It.] It is [the immeasurable light,] which is pure, [holy, and unpolluted. It is in]effable [being perfect i]n incorruptibility. (It does) [not] (exist) in per[fection], blessed[ness, or] divini[ty] but It is [far] supe­rior (to these).

It is neither corporeal [nor in]corporeal. [It] is not large or small. [It is not] such that one could [say] that It has quantity or [quality]. For it is not possible for anyone [to know It]. It is not something among [existing things, but It is] far [super]ior—[not] as [being supe­rior] (to others as though It is comparable to them) but as that which belongs to Itself. It does [not partici]pate in the aeons or in time (as a constitutive part of them). For that which participates i[n an aeon] was first prepared (by others). It was [not given a p]ortion in time [because] It does not receive anything [from anoth]er- for [what­ever] It received would be received as a loan. For what exists prior] to anything else is not deficient such that It should receive [from any­thing].


I don't call myself anything other than bernard

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
It alone [is eternal] since It does not need [anything.] For It is totally perfect. [It] does not [lack] anything such that [anything] would perfect It, [but] It is [al]ways completely perfect in [light]. It can­not be [limi]ted because there is nothing [before It] to limit It. [It is] inscrut[able because there] is no one who exists before It [to scrutinine It.] [It is im]measurable because there is nothing [which exists before It to measure] It. [It is] in[visible because there is] no one to see [It. It is an eternity existing] eternally. [It is ineffable because] there is no one able to comprehend It in order to sp[eak about It.] It is [un]nameable because [there is no one before It] to name [It.] It is [the immeasurable light,] which is pure, [holy, and unpolluted. It is in]effable [being perfect i]n incorruptibility. (It does) [not] (exist) in per[fection], blessed[ness, or] divini[ty] but It is [far] supe­rior (to these).

It is neither corporeal [nor in]corporeal. [It] is not large or small. [It is not] such that one could [say] that It has quantity or [quality]. For it is not possible for anyone [to know It]. It is not something among [existing things, but It is] far [super]ior—[not] as [being supe­rior] (to others as though It is comparable to them) but as that which belongs to Itself. It does [not partici]pate in the aeons or in time (as a constitutive part of them). For that which participates i[n an aeon] was first prepared (by others). It was [not given a p]ortion in time [because] It does not receive anything [from anoth]er- for [what­ever] It received would be received as a loan. For what exists prior] to anything else is not deficient such that It should receive [from any­thing].

I don't call myself anything other than bernard

bernard (hug)


But the one calling himself Bernard, holds to the teachings of the Gnostics does he not ?

LeClerc
LeClerc

Morning Bernie.

bnabernard wrote:

Is there a specific that makes one son and father relationship any different from another?
bernard (hug)


Yes Bernie there is

Exodus 4 CJB
22 Then you are to tell Pharaoh: ‘Adonai says, “Isra’el is my firstborn son.

Was this relationship not different to that between the Father and His only begotten Son.

However let us not forget that the Logos, in becoming flesh, the flesh was also part of Israel.

LeClerc
bnabernard

I see, you are revealing Israel as the word and Yeshau as beeing begotten out of Israel as the word made flesh.
Why not just say that then people will understand you.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I see, you are revealing Israel as the word and Yeshau as beeing begotten out of Israel as the word made flesh.
Why not just say that then people will understand you.

bernard (hug)


Then Bernie you fail to understand.

LeClerc
bnabernard

So Israel the firstborn son was devoide of the word of God?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Dear Bernard.

Can you tell who 'The Word' is from this scripture?.......

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make oura joy complete.
1 John 1.

Honey
Honey 56

Also this……
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(or God was the Word) 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men
. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understooda it.


John 1

And this......

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,c nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’” 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,e,f who is at the Father’s side, has made him known



Messsiah Yeshua was always the Word of God, right from the beginning (there was nothing before Him) YHWH took on flesh and lived as a human being, 1) to show us YHWH's character, His love and provision and 2) To take our punishment and become a ransom sacrifice for our sin.

That is how....... "God so loved the world that He sent His (only begotten/uniquely one off) Son........."
Honey
bnabernard

Does it not require a child of God to make amends for a child of God, or does the Father of the child make amends?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Dear Bernard....

16But you are our Father,

though Abraham does not know us

or Israel acknowledge us;

you, O Lord, are our Father,

our Redeemer from of old is your name.


Isaiah. 63

and

This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God

Isaiah 44..
bnabernard

Yes Honey, and I believe somewhere God refers to being a Jealous God and that they should have no other God, did He change that mandate to allow a son to take on the role of God and for the son to be worshiped in His stead?
Has He put aside His jealousy in favour of His son?

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

P.S


Surely his *salvation is near those who fear him, that his glory may dwell in our land.
Psalm 85


*yesha: deliverance, rescue, salvation, safety, welfare
Original Word: יֵ֫שַׁע
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yesha
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh'-shah)
Short Definition: salvation
Honey 56

bnabernard wrote:
Yes Honey, and I believe somewhere God refers to being a Jealous God and that they should have no other God, did He change that mandate to allow a son to take on the role of God and for the son to be worshiped in His stead?
Has He put aside His jealousy in favour of His son?

bernard (hug)


There is an explanation Bernard

Hear, O Israel:

The LORD(YHWH)
our God,(El-O-Him/ plural)
the LORD (YHWH)
is one(Echad/united).

and

Genesis 1
In the beginning God (El-O-Him) created..........

and

John 1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (or God was the word).
Through Him all things were made, without Him nothing was made that has been made.......

It is when we are led to believe that The Word is another god besides YHWH that we become confused and then we are encouraged to walk after and worship another god besides YHWH.

Messiah Yeshua quite rightly received the worship that was rightly His to receieve.
He was sentenced to death for blasphemy because He claimed equality with God, was He wrong to do either of these things?

Honey
bnabernard

So Yeshua a man is salvation, God recieves.

So the son offers himself as salvation for mankind, and that salvation is recieved by the sacrifice made by the son.
The one recieving is the Father who is God who now grants salvation.

There is one that pleads and one that answers.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So Israel the firstborn son was devoide of the word of God?

bernard (hug)


Why did YHWH issue Israel with a certificate of divorce ?

Jeremiah 3
8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear — instead she too went and prostituted herself.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Are you saying that God does not know what He's doing?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Are you saying that God does not know what He's doing?

bernard (hug)


No, your problem seems to be believing what the scriptures teach.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Nope I have no problem other than to learn as a son should learn.
Other people seem to want me to believe what they 'think scripture means' and will even show me what the greeks think scripture means, and susequently I find myself faced with a load of old tosh that has been born from traditions thathave no bearing.
I'ts not myself having a problem it's others who entrench in false teaching.

I'm sure there is something written that points out the confusion and false teaching that would come to pass.

So for those who want to make a crumbling derelict appear as a new build then ...........

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Nope I have no problem other than to learn as a son should learn.
Other people seem to want me to believe what they 'think scripture means' and will even show me what the greeks think scripture means, and susequently I find myself faced with a load of old tosh that has been born from traditions thathave no bearing.
I'ts not myself having a problem it's others who entrench in false teaching.

I'm sure there is something written that points out the confusion and false teaching that would come to pass.

So for those who want to make a crumbling derelict appear as a new build then ...........

bernard (hug)


So lets ask the question again.

bnabernard wrote:
So Israel the firstborn son was devoide of the word of God?

bernard (hug)


Why did YHWH issue Israel with a certificate of divorce ?

Jeremiah 3
8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear — instead she too went and prostituted herself.

LeClerc
Honey 56

Hi LeClerc,
The scripture you posted........

Jeremiah 3
8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear — instead she too went and prostituted herself.


Is an interesting one, Israel had been unfaithful to YHWH, presumably by giving their love and devotion to other gods and idols.

There is a lesson here for people who encourage others to walk after and worship another god besides YHWH, who does not desire an unfaithful or promiscuous bride.

Honey
LeClerc

Morning sis

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,
The scripture you posted........

Jeremiah 3
8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear — instead she too went and prostituted herself.


Is an interesting one, Israel had been unfaithful to YHWH, presumably by giving their love and devotion to other gods and idols.

There is a lesson here for people who encourage others to walk after and worship another god besides YHWH, who does not desire an unfaithful or promiscuous bride.

Honey


Absolutely sis.

One does not need to understand Greek grammar to discern what John meant when he penned the opening verse of his gospel, what is needed is Spirit given understanding of how it related to the Torah.

To John there is one true God YHWH.

John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YHWH, and YHWH was the Word.



LeClerc
Honey 56

[quote="LeClerc:81757"]


Quote:
Absolutely sis.

One does not need to understand Greek grammar to discern what John meant when he penned the opening verse of his gospel, what is needed is Spirit given understanding of how it related to the Torah.

To John there is one true God YHWH.

John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YHWH, and YHWH was the Word.



LeClerc



Indeed Bro.,


"YHWH was The Word"

And I have been pondering lately, why most, if not all of the translations, translate it the other way around? "Thw Word was God"
I know that it amounts to the same thing, but if it was translated as it is written in the originnal text it would cause less problems for people like JW's who use this scripture (with the insertion of 'a') to back up their theory that Yeshua is another god beside YHWH, not scriptual, but I can see how the usual translation would encourage their error, I can also see that the word God has no definiate article, in this scripture, but when applied equally across the board this often is not required when speaking about YHWH in other scriptures? surely rules of translation should be consistent?

Is there a reason, because of the language that this scripture is translated (in my opinion) the wrong way around, do you know, LeClerc?

Or  

Honey  
Honey 56

The following, seems to be a good explanation....




John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation. It is not saying that "a god was the word." That wouldn't make sense. Let me break it down into three statements.
1. "In beginning was the word..."
(en arche en ho logos)
A. A very simple statement that the Word was in the beginning.
2. "and the word was with the God..."
(kai ho logos en pros ton theon)
A. This same Word was with God.
3. "and God was the word." -- Properly translated as "and the Word was God."
(kai theos en ho logos)
A. This same Word was God.
Regarding statement 3 above, the correct English translation is "...and the Word was God," not "and God was the word." This is because if there is only one definite article ("ho"="the") in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative ("subject") form ("theos" and "logos"), then the noun with the definite article ("ho"="the") is the subject. In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause. Therefore, "...the Word was God" is the correct translation, not "God was the Word."1 But this does not negate the idea that John is speaking of only one God, not two, even though the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus is "a god," or the "mighty god" as was addressed above.
Is there suddenly a new god in the text of John 1:1? It is the same God that is being spoken of in part 2 as in part 3. How do the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that the word had somehow become a god in this context, since there is only one God mentioned? Remember, the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Therefore, is there any place in the Bible where an angel is called "a god," besides Satan being called the god of this world in 2 Cor. 4:3-4?


From.....
http://carm.org/religious-movemen...hs-witnesses/john-11-word-was-god


What do you think?

Honey
LeClerc

Hi Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
The following, seems to be a good explanation....




John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation. It is not saying that "a god was the word." That wouldn't make sense. Let me break it down into three statements.
1. "In beginning was the word..."
(en arche en ho logos)
A. A very simple statement that the Word was in the beginning.
2. "and the word was with the God..."
(kai ho logos en pros ton theon)
A. This same Word was with God.
3. "and God was the word." -- Properly translated as "and the Word was God."
(kai theos en ho logos)
A. This same Word was God.
Regarding statement 3 above, the correct English translation is "...and the Word was God," not "and God was the word." This is because if there is only one definite article ("ho"="the") in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative ("subject") form ("theos" and "logos"), then the noun with the definite article ("ho"="the") is the subject. In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause. Therefore, "...the Word was God" is the correct translation, not "God was the Word."1 But this does not negate the idea that John is speaking of only one God, not two, even though the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus is "a god," or the "mighty god" as was addressed above.
Is there suddenly a new god in the text of John 1:1? It is the same God that is being spoken of in part 2 as in part 3. How do the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that the word had somehow become a god in this context, since there is only one God mentioned? Remember, the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Therefore, is there any place in the Bible where an angel is called "a god," besides Satan being called the god of this world in 2 Cor. 4:3-4?


From.....
http://carm.org/religious-movemen...hs-witnesses/john-11-word-was-god


What do you think?

Honey


You raise an interesting point.

Dr. George Lamsa's English Peshitta translation reads.

John 1:1 - THE Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word.

Pad van Waarheid tot die Lewe Afrikaans Peshitta translation reads

John 1:1 - Oorspronklik het die Boodskap reeds bestaan en daardie Boodskap het saam met God bestaan en God self was daardie Boodskap.

Dr. John W. Etheridge's English Peshitta translation reads

John 1:1 - IN the beginning was the Word, [Meltho.] and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.

However

Dr. James Murdock's English Peshitta translation reads

John 1:1 - In the beginning, was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.

If we turn directly to the Peshitta word for word

John1:1
In the beginning was the Miltha and that miltha was with God and God was that Miltha.

Not sure if that helps.

LeClerc
Lexilogio

I think I can add to this.

In Greek, you don't necessarily need the preposition. Θεος is as usable as Ο Θεος, in fact the preposition is unnecessary, as it is included in the -ος ending.

That said, were it to be Ενα Θεος, or a god, then the preposition would be required, as the -ος ending does not define this. In fact, it does the opposite. -ος is a singular ending, referring to a single entity, God as one.
Honey 56

Thank you both  LeClerc and Lexi,     it is really useful to get other peoples views and perspectives.


So we are all agreed God was the word, or the Word was God and not 'a god'    

Honey
LeClerc

Morning Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
Thank you both  LeClerc and Lexi,     it is really useful to get other peoples views and perspectives.


So we are all agreed God was the word, or the Word was God and not 'a god'    

Honey


Agreed sis except is there a difference between

God was the Word

and

the Word was God

LeClerc

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