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Pukon_the_Treen

Masturbation!

Important tips for you all (lifted from lightplanet.com):

Masturbation is a quickly-forming habit that can adversely affect both men and women of all ages. Despite what some might tell you, masturbation is not harmless. If you are trying to overcome masturbation, be assured that it is possible (even though, like any habit, it may take some work). If you are determined to do it, you will be able to. This page will give you some tips that can help you along the way.
Determination is the first step. That is where we begin. You must decide that you will end this practice, and when you make that decision, the problem will be greatly reduced at once.

But it must be more than a hope or a wish, more than knowing that it is good for you. It must be actually a DECISION. If you truly make up your mind you will have the strength to resist temptations which will come to you.

After you have made this decision, then observe the following specific guidelines:

1. Never touch the intimate parts of your body except during normal washing and using the bathroom.

2. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good company and stay in this good company, especially when you are feeling particularly weak.

3. If you are associated with other persons having this same problem, YOU MUST BREAK OFF THEIR FRIENDSHIP. Never associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will. You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind. The problem must be taken OUT OF YOUR MIND for that is where it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more wholesome things.

4. After you bathe, don't admire yourself in the mirror. Stay in the shower just long enough to clean yourself. Then dry off and GET OUT OF THE BATHROOM into a room where you will have some member of your family present.

5. When in bed (especially if that is where you masturbate), wear pajamas or other clothes so that you cannot easily touch yourself (and so that it would be difficult to remove those clothes. The time it takes to remove your clothing gives additional time to controll your thinking and overcome the temptation).

6. If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET OUT OF BED! Go into the kitchen and make a snack, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even if you are not hungry. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you GET YOUR MIND ON SOMETHING ELSE. You are the subject of your thoughts, so to speak.

7. Never look at pornography on the internet or elsewhere. Never read about your problem (even on sites claiming to be "educational"). Keep it out of mind. Remember -- "First a thought, then an act." The thought pattern must be changed. You must not allow this problem to remain in your mind. When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.

8. Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times. Read good books, scriptures, talks of church leaders. Make a daily habit of reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon. The four Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of their uplifting qualities.

9. Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem, for that will tend to keep it in your mind more than ever. Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures, pray for members of your family who need help. Pray for your friends, BUT KEEP THE PROBLEM OUT OF YOUR MIND BY NOT MENTIONING IT EVEN IN YOUR PRAYERS. KEEP IT OUT of your mind! The attitude of a person toward his problem has an affect on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire for the act, he develops the power to control it.

As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of these suggestions. Remember it is essential that a regular report program be agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures understood and eliminated.
Here are some additional suggestions that have proven helpful for others who have successfully overcome masturbation:

1. Pray daily, ask for the gifts of the Spirit, that which will strengthen you against temptation. Pray fervently and out loud when the temptations are the strongest.

2. Exercise daily. Exercise reduces emotional tension and depression and is absolutely basic to the solution of this problem. Double your physical activity when you feel stress increasing.

3. When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind and then recite a prechosen Scripture or sing an inspirational hymn. It is important to turn your thoughts away from the selfish need to indulge.

4. If you ever do give in, don't give up. The worst thing you can do is say "oh well, I screwed up, I guess I'll stop trying". Simply get back on track and don't look back. Until you commit yourself to never do it again you will always be open to temptation.

5. Change in behavior and attitude is most easily achieved through a changed self-image. Spend time every day imagining yourself strong and in control, easily overcoming tempting situations.

6. Begin to work daily on a self-improvement program. Relate this plan to improving your Church service, to improving your relationships with your family, God and others. Strive to enhance your strengths and talents.

7. Be outgoing and friendly. Force yourself to be with others and learn to enjoy working and talking to them. Use principles of developing friendships found in books such as How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

8. Be aware of situations that depress you or that cause you to feel lonely, bored, frustrated or discouraged. These emotional states can trigger the desire to masturbate as a way of escape. Plan in advance to counter these low periods through various activities, such as reading a book, visiting a friend, doing something athletic, etc.

10. A careful study will indicate you have had the problem at certain times and under certain conditions. Try and recall, in detail, what your particular times and conditions were. Now that you understand how it happens, plan to break the pattern through counter activities.

11. In the field of psychotherapy there is a very effective technique called aversion therapy. When we associate or think of something very distasteful with something which has been pleasurable, but undesirable, the distasteful thought and feeling will begin to cancel out that which was pleasurable. If you associate something very distasteful with your loss of self-control it will help you to stop the act. For example, if you are tempted to masturbate, think of having to bathe in a tub of worms, and eat several of them as you do the act. It sounds goofy, but it actually works!

12. During your bathroom and shower activities leave the bathroom door or shower curtain partly open. Enough to keep from being totally alone, but still giving adequate privacy. Take cool, brief showers.

13. Get out of bed immediately in the mornings. Do not lie in bed awake, no matter what time of day it is. Get up and do something. Start each day with an enthusiastic activity.

14. Keep your bladder empty. Believe it or not, having a full bladder can cause you to feel sexually stimulated. As strange as it sounds you may find that going to the bathroom often makes it easier to refrain from masturbating.

16. Always wear pajamas at night (preferably ones that tie or are difficult to open).

17. Avoid people, situations, pictures or websites that create sexual excitement.

18. It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to use in overcoming this problem. A Bible, for example, held firmly in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in extreme cases.

20. Set up a reward system for your successes. It does not have to be a big reward. A dollar in a jar for every day you don't masturbate. At the end of the month you can buy something you like. If you don't make it to the end of the month, donate the money in the jar to charity - this one works quite well.

Do not let yourself return to any past habit or attitude patterns which were part of your problem. Temptation never goes away. Be calmly and confidently on guard. Keep a positive mental attitude. You can do it! The joy and strength you will feel when you do will give your whole life a glow of satisfaction and fulfillment.
T8-eh-T8

FINALLY some practical advice.

Any mention of fisting?

I know it is less popular but I am getting callouses. Could use some <ahem> tips.
Pukon_the_Treen

Ah, number 18 wil be useful for you:

Quote:
18. It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to use in overcoming this problem. A Bible, for example, held firmly in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in extreme cases.
Samuel Vimes

Pukon_the_Treen wrote:
Ah, number 18 wil be useful for you:

Quote:
18. It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to use in overcoming this problem. A Bible, for example, held firmly in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in extreme cases.


Is that what's meant by "Bible basher"?  
Shaker

Bishop basher, more like  
Delrick53

admin. wrote:
Bishop basher, more like  




Does that make it biblical ?
Shaker

Quote:
20. Set up a reward system for your successes. It does not have to be a big reward. A dollar in a jar for every day you don't masturbate. At the end of the month you can buy something you like. If you don't make it to the end of the month, donate the money in the jar to charity - this one works quite well.


... although if you don't make it to the end of the month, the jar might prove useful in itself  
T8-eh-T8

I am sure that I am not alone in noticing how the masturbation advice is a load of old wank?

Oh - that is the Christian perspective BTW.
Pukon_the_Treen

I love number 11, the 'aversion therapy' one.

Anyone who encourages themselves to associate sexual arousal with bathing in a tub of worms, eating some of them, is going to end up with one messed up sex life.
Shaker

Coffee, meet laptop (not for the first time while Andy is about with his mucky talk   ).
northernstar

B******s, there's nowt like a good w**k!!!  
Samuel Vimes

Re: Masturbation!

Pukon_the_Treen wrote:
BUT KEEP THE PROBLEM OUT OF YOUR MIND BY NOT MENTIONING IT EVEN IN YOUR PRAYERS. KEEP IT OUT of your mind!

As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of these suggestions. Remember it is essential that a regular report program be agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures understood and eliminated.


Seems a tad contradictory: Don't even think about wanking but do discuss your wanking habits with your "Priesthood Leader".  
Pukon_the_Treen

I don't understand why it leaves out the obvious; Arnold Rimmer's nocturnal boxing gloves.
jeremyp

I like point 7 in the first batch. "don't think about masturbation",
but do read the 29 points on how not to think about it.

It reminds me of the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.
northernstar

Masturbation is a natural human activity, nothing mucky about it whatsoever, believe me!!!!!
Heselbine

Why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why are some Christians so obsessed with willies
Shaker

They do seem to give that impression, don't they? Getting their cassocks in a twist over gay vicars while people die of starvation, dirty water, disease, war and the like.
Delrick53

admin. wrote:
They do seem to give that impression, don't they? Getting their cassocks in a twist over gay vicars while people die of starvation, dirty water, disease, war and the like.



And the news from Dublin today doesn't help the celibacy credibility much, does it.
Shaker

Hm  
Leonard James

Heselbine wrote:
Why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why are some Christians so obsessed with willies

Because they can be fun!
Lexilogio



Is it just me - or is the recommendation to seek company when feeling frisky more likely to result in sexual relations with ones company (thereby potentially extra marital - or at unmarital fornication).....

Or is that supposed to be better than enjoying yourself.  
T8-eh-T8

..as in ones a company - two's a crowd?
Pukon_the_Treen

Three's tiring (and can be disorienting).
trentvoyager

Quote:
Three's tiring (and can be disorienting).


Yes but you can have a decent game of Scrabble afterwards
gone

What a blokey topic!  
northernstar

Don't women masturbate, Rose-Mary or is it a taboo subject?!  
Samuel Vimes

Rose-Mary wrote:
What a blokey topic!  


I don't think that "flicking the bean" is excluded from this discussion.

Care to share?
gone

Samuel Vimes wrote:
Rose-Mary wrote:
What a blokey topic!  


I don't think that "flicking the bean" is excluded from this discussion.

Care to share?


No!

Suffice to say a good book, a small glass of a good whisky and possibly a box of chocs are more to my taste in my old age. The old girl swiftly removes herself from the topic in question!
Delrick53

Rose-Mary wrote:
Samuel Vimes wrote:
Rose-Mary wrote:
What a blokey topic!  


I don't think that "flicking the bean" is excluded from this discussion.

Care to share?


No!

Suffice to say a good book, a small glass of a good whisky and possibly a box of chocs are more to my taste in my old age. The old girl swiftly removes herself from the topic in question!


I don't know what anyone's talking about Rose-Mary, but I like the idea of a nice Laphroaig.

I'd substitute the chocs for cashew nuts though.  
Samuel Vimes

Delrick53 wrote:
I don't know what anyone's talking about Rose-Mary, but I like the idea of a nice Laphroaig.


Fnarr fnarr!
Lexilogio

Delrick53 wrote:
Rose-Mary wrote:
Samuel Vimes wrote:
Rose-Mary wrote:
What a blokey topic!  


I don't think that "flicking the bean" is excluded from this discussion.

Care to share?


No!

Suffice to say a good book, a small glass of a good whisky and possibly a box of chocs are more to my taste in my old age. The old girl swiftly removes herself from the topic in question!


I don't know what anyone's talking about Rose-Mary, but I like the idea of a nice Laphroaig.

I'd substitute the chocs for cashew nuts though.  


   
gone

Yes Laphroaig would be to my taste too, I prefer Brazil nuts to cashews.
Leonard James

Last night while lying on my bad,
I dreamed that love and I were wed,
I heard a voice that softly said
"Do it!"

Not knowing if aright I heard,
I lay quite still and never stirred.
Then came again that whispered word
"Do it!"

I saw her now, she touched my cheek
My heart beat fast, my limbs were weak,
And once again I heard her speak
"Do it!"

Then waking up midst sweat and heat
A-tremble all from head to feet,
I found I had upon the sheet,
Done it!

Yes, I know ... I AM awful!
Rob

Leonard James wrote:
Last night while lying on my bad,
I dreamed that love and I were wed,
I heard a voice that softly said
"Do it!"

Not knowing if aright I heard,
I lay quite still and never stirred.
Then came again that whispered word
"Do it!"

I saw her now, she touched my cheek
My heart beat fast, my limbs were weak,
And once again I heard her speak
"Do it!"

Then waking up midst sweat and heat
A-tremble all from head to feet,
I found I had upon the sheet,
Done it!

Yes, I know ... I AM awful!


Her??
Leonard James

Rob wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Last night while lying on my bad,
I dreamed that love and I were wed,
I heard a voice that softly said
"Do it!"

Not knowing if aright I heard,
I lay quite still and never stirred.
Then came again that whispered word
"Do it!"

I saw her now, she touched my cheek
My heart beat fast, my limbs were weak,
And once again I heard her speak
"Do it!"

Then waking up midst sweat and heat
A-tremble all from head to feet,
I found I had upon the sheet,
Done it!

Yes, I know ... I AM awful!


Her??

I decided the boring, heterosexual version would appeal to a greater number of readers.
Delrick53

Leonard James wrote:
Rob wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Last night while lying on my bad,
I dreamed that love and I were wed,
I heard a voice that softly said
"Do it!"

Not knowing if aright I heard,
I lay quite still and never stirred.
Then came again that whispered word
"Do it!"

I saw her now, she touched my cheek
My heart beat fast, my limbs were weak,
And once again I heard her speak
"Do it!"

Then waking up midst sweat and heat
A-tremble all from head to feet,
I found I had upon the sheet,
Done it!

Yes, I know ... I AM awful!


Her??

I decided the boring, heterosexual version would appeal to a greater number of readers.



But not us celibate types Leonard !

We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.
Nuns are visited by demonic incubi, always disguised as priests.
Leonard James

Delrick53 wrote:
But not us celibate types Leonard !

We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.
Nuns are visited by demonic incubi, always disguised as priests.

Yes, I have a gay incubus that visits me regularly, but the little devil refuses to wash the sheets before he goes.
Samuel Vimes

Delrick53 wrote:
We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.


And who exactly are "the faithful" with regard to this statement?

This is no different from saying "the atheists" say such and such.

You can't just go lumping people together under this sort of generalisation.
Delrick53

Samuel Vimes wrote:
Delrick53 wrote:
We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.


And who exactly are "the faithful" with regard to this statement?

This is no different from saying "the atheists" say such and such.

You can't just go lumping people together under this sort of generalisation.


If this was a serious debate then I wouldn't, and if you visit the BBCMBs you'll see me and many others doing this  - ie NOT using a broad brush and complaining when others do.

But I'm starting to smell a little rat here, S V.

Who exactly are you ?

Most of us post at the BBC, and our 'alter-egos' are known, and we have no problem with that. Until what we say here suddenly finds it's way to CCT at the Beeb, and is used against us BY the Beeb CCT.

And yes, I can be a little paranoid, but with very good reason.
Delrick53

Leonard James wrote:
Delrick53 wrote:
But not us celibate types Leonard !

We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.
Nuns are visited by demonic incubi, always disguised as priests.

Yes, I have a gay incubus that visits me regularly, but the little devil refuses to wash the sheets before he goes.



I bet he leaves biscuit crumbs too Leonard !
Leonard James

Delrick53 wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Delrick53 wrote:
But not us celibate types Leonard !

We have visits from demonic succubi - at least that's what the faithful tell us.
Nuns are visited by demonic incubi, always disguised as priests.

Yes, I have a gay incubus that visits me regularly, but the little devil refuses to wash the sheets before he goes.



I bet he leaves biscuit crumbs too Leonard !

Ah! He visits you, too, does he? What a rake!
Samuel Vimes

Delrick53 wrote:
And yes, I can be a little paranoid


You don't say.

I remind you of the potential pitfalls of making generalisations about any diverse group of people and I get the Spanish Inquisition in return.

I'm going to leave this thread before you bring out the comfy chair.  
Delrick53

Samuel Vimes wrote:
Delrick53 wrote:
And yes, I can be a little paranoid


You don't say.

I remind you of the potential pitfalls of making generalisations about any diverse group of people and I get the Spanish Inquisition in return.

I'm going to leave this thread before you bring out the comfy chair.  


SVimes,

Honest.

I don't actually believe that there are things like incubi, or succubi, demonic or otherwise.
Nor do I believe in demons, or angels, or the Nephalim, and to me they're all part of the same thing - religious faith - and 'people of faith' can mean 20, or 200 million.

I also know that the RCC claims it had nothing to do with the Spanish Inquisition, and I don't believe that either.

And I also believe that the only people who DO believe in religious-based supernatural entities are people of faith.
Samuel Vimes

Delrick53 wrote:
and 'people of faith' can mean 20, or 200 million.


Seriously, I'm going to leave this alone now because there is a big risk of this descending into pedantry.

The point that I wished to make about what you said in that post has been made and I'm happy to leave it at that.  
Lexilogio

Quote:
And I also believe that the only people who DO believe in religious-based supernatural entities are people of faith.


I would argue that depends on how you define "people of faith".
For example, I don't believe in demons, incubi etc... However, I do believe in God. Yet I have friends who are agnostic, but adamantly believe in ghosts, ghouls, demons.... you name it...

While most religious based entities are firmly entrenched within the religious base, there is a wide believe in the supernatural which extends beyond the religious framework.
Judders Lady...

As Jesus Christ said there are demons then I believe demons exist.



Psalm 106:37 (King James Version)

37.Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,


Matthew 4:24 (King James Version)

24.And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.


Demons are devils...
Quote:
Definition of Devil

Dev"il (?), n. [AS. deófol, deóful; akin to G. &?;eufel, Goth. diabaúlus; all fr. L. diabolus the devil, Gr. &?; the devil, the slanderer, fr. &?; to slander, calumniate, orig., to throw across; &?; across + &?; to throw, let fall, fall; cf. Skr. gal to fall. Cf. Diabolic.] 1. The Evil One; Satan, represented as the tempter and spiritual of mankind.

   [Jesus] being forty days tempted of the devil.

Luke iv. 2.

   That old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world.

Rev. xii. 9.

2. An evil spirit; a demon.

   A dumb man possessed with a devil.


So you cannot say God exists and yet not believe what Christ and God say about demons and devils existing.
Christ clearly healed those possessed by demons/devils.
There are more things in heaven and earth than most men realise in the natural. But in the Spiritual we see that God has given us the gift of 'discerment of spirits' to know what a person teaches is of man or from God.


1 John 4:1-3 (King James Version)

1 John 4

1.Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2.Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:


3.And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Jesus Christ is the one who came in the flesh but many false spirits teach that is was God who came in the flesh. But it was Christ in flesh who manifested who God really was. Christ also taught that spirits/demons are real.  Christ says eternal life is...

John 17:3 (King James Version)

3.And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Christ was full of the Holy Spirit and God has always spoken to mankind through 'Holy Men' full of the Holy Spirit. God said he would raise a prophet up from amongst their own people and that he would put his Words into his mouth and everyone was to adhere to those Words.
Christ saying, " My Words are Spirit and they are life." The Holy  Spirit brings a life from the power of him being present. The dead body thrown into the burial cave and touches the bones of the dead prophet and immediately it is restored to life.




James 2:19 (King James Version)

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


The NT and the Apostles make it clear through the teachings of Christ (which the Holy  Spirit causes them to remember), that demons/devils do exist.
Perhaps Lexi, was not thinking of demons/devils being the same thing?

Love JL.xx
Leonard James

Demons and devils? Oh dearie me, what daft things some of you come out with.
Lexilogio

I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.
Leonard James

Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.
Judders Lady...

Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


That is correct Leonard.
The bible quotes are clearly not referring to Satan but to devils and demons in plural and therefore Lexi cannot confuse these passages as referring to Satan the devil. For it is talking about devils and demons.


Love Lynne.xx
Leonard James

Judders Lady... wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


That is correct Leonard.
The bible quotes are clearly not referring to Satan but to devils and demons in plural and therefore Lexi cannot confuse these passages as referring to Satan the devil. For it is talking about devils and demons.


Love Lynne.xx

Yes, Lynne, I'm afraid such things have to be faced and much of the Bible recognised for what it is ... a fairy story.

I sympathise with Lexi and other reasonable Christians who struggle to make sense of it, but there is no escaping the fact that all references to supernatural entities are nothing more than products of the inventive minds of the writers. They lived in times when such things as gods, devils, spirits and angels were accepted by a credulous populace as really existing.

The moral message on how we should live is about the only part of the Bible which is any use, and our children should be taught the Golden Rule without the carrot of eternal life with 'God' for obeying or the threat of eternal damnation for not doing so.
Leonard James

Leonard James wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


That is correct Leonard.
The bible quotes are clearly not referring to Satan but to devils and demons in plural and therefore Lexi cannot confuse these passages as referring to Satan the devil. For it is talking about devils and demons.


Love Lynne.xx

Yes, Lynne, I'm afraid such things have to be faced and much of the Bible recognised for what it is ... a fairy story.

I sympathise with Lexi and other reasonable Christians who struggle to make sense of it, but there is no escaping the fact that all references to supernatural entities are nothing more than products of the inventive minds of the writers. They lived in times when such things as God/gods, Satan/devils, spirits and angels were accepted by a credulous populace as really existing.

The moral message on how we should live is about the only part of the Bible which is any use, and our children should be taught the Golden Rule without the carrot of eternal life with 'God' for obeying or the threat of eternal damnation for not doing so.
Lexilogio

Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


I'm aware of that.

I consider those references to be metaphorical. I have worked in the health service for years, and see no demons. However, I do appreciate that some disorders, particularly in the way they affect the behaviour of the sufferers, can seem that way.

Jesus was talking to people over 2000 years ago. Had he said,
"Actually this person is suffering from post traumatic stress disorder," or "I think you'll find this is a case of schizophrenia", then I doubt anyone would have listened. He spoke to people as they would understand at the time. Therin lies the beauty of communication.

And I wasn't confusing passages at all. I was merely being lazy in not bothering to mention the difference.
Leonard James

Lexilogio wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


I'm aware of that.

I consider those references to be metaphorical. I have worked in the health service for years, and see no demons. However, I do appreciate that some disorders, particularly in the way they affect the behaviour of the sufferers, can seem that way.

Jesus was talking to people over 2000 years ago. Had he said,
"Actually this person is suffering from post traumatic stress disorder," or "I think you'll find this is a case of schizophrenia", then I doubt anyone would have listened. He spoke to people as they would understand at the time. Therin lies the beauty of communication.

And I wasn't confusing passages at all. I was merely being lazy in not bothering to mention the difference.

Morning Lexi,

Do you really believe that Jesus would have known anything about "post traumatic stress disorder" or "schizophrenia"?

Of course he didn't, he simply accepted the existence of devils and demons, and the same superstitions as everybody else did at the time.
Silver

There is nothing in the bible that is beyond the poor knowledge of the days when it was written. A real god would have known that it would still be in use in 2009 and added information relevant to our modern era.
Lexilogio

Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I do not see demons and the devil as the same thing at all.

But Lynne's Bible quotes refer to both 'devils' and 'demons' in plural, Lexi.


I'm aware of that.

I consider those references to be metaphorical. I have worked in the health service for years, and see no demons. However, I do appreciate that some disorders, particularly in the way they affect the behaviour of the sufferers, can seem that way.

Jesus was talking to people over 2000 years ago. Had he said,
"Actually this person is suffering from post traumatic stress disorder," or "I think you'll find this is a case of schizophrenia", then I doubt anyone would have listened. He spoke to people as they would understand at the time. Therin lies the beauty of communication.

And I wasn't confusing passages at all. I was merely being lazy in not bothering to mention the difference.

Morning Lexi,

Do you really believe that Jesus would have known anything about "post traumatic stress disorder" or "schizophrenia"?

Of course he didn't, he simply accepted the existence of devils and demons, and the same superstitions as everybody else did at the time.


Jesus is the word. He would have known more than we do - but communication was important

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