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cole209

Matthew 12:40

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
Ketty

Re: Matthew 12:40

cole209 wrote:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?


Matt 12: 40 in context:  Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, ‘Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.’  But He answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.  For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.  The people of Nineveh will rise up at the judgement with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and see, something greater than Jonah is here! ...'

Regarding time: days and nights, we had this discussion here:  http://nglreturns.myfreeforum.org/sutra69802.php&highlight=#69802

Jim

Re: Matthew 12:40

Hi, cole209;
Good to see you posting here again.
I've read, and heard, both (or, to be more precise, three) sides of this argument. Actually, they have merit - each of them. However, as Ketty has already quoted, the LORD Jesus made things abundantly clear both here, and elsewhere in the Gospel record, exactly how long He was going to be absent.
Three days.
That's good enough for me!
Blessings.
LeClerc

Re: Matthew 12:40

Hi Cole

cole209 wrote:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day  folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?


The Hebrew day actually starts at sundown so the first part of the Hebrew day is night the second part of the Hebrew day is day.

Those who hold to the teaching that Y'shua was crucified on the 6th day and rose before sunrise on the 1st day arrive at the following.

Y'shua was buried just before sunset on the 6th day the next period of time being the night part of 7th day.

So we have

7th day night period
7th day day period
1st day night period

Y'shua rose before sunlight on the 1st day

John 20
1Now on the first day of the week, Miryam from Magdala went early, while it was still dark, to the tomb, and saw the stone taken away from the tomb.

so the maximum period, holding to a 6th day crucifixion teaching, is one day and two nights.

Y'shua said

Matthew 12
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


and His Word is true.

Holding to a 6th day crucifixion makes Y'shua out to be a false prophet.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Where's this heart of the earth?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Where's this heart of the earth?

bernard (hug)


Y'shua refers to the sign of Jonah.

Jonah 2
3 For you threw me into the depths, In the heart of the seas. The flood was all around me. All your waves and your billows passed over me.

Where was Jonah for three days and three nights ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

the heart of the seas  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
the heart of the seas  

bernard (hug)


When you understand the above then you will be able to understand ''heart of the earth''.

LeClerc
bnabernard

That was very helpful leclerc,  
Is there a difference?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
That was very helpful leclerc,  
Is there a difference?

bernard (hug)


From scripture

Matthew 27
62 Next day, after the preparation, the head cohanim and the P’rushim went together to Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember that that deceiver said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will be raised.’ 64 Therefore, order that the grave be made secure till the third day; otherwise the talmidim may come, steal him away and say to the people, ‘He was raised from the dead’; and the last deception will be worse than the first.”

LeClerc
bnabernard

I'm sure that may mean something to you and you are happy with what it means, however I think we was discussing hearts, one of the sea and one of the earth, two seperate hearts, and I asked if there was a difference.
What is this heart spoken of and is there a difference?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I'm sure that may mean something to you and you are happy with what it means, however I think we was discussing hearts, one of the sea and one of the earth, two seperate hearts, and I asked if there was a difference.
What is this heart spoken of and is there a difference?

bernard (hug)


The difference is not the hearts Bernie, but where the heart is, one refers to the sea the other refers to the earth.

You have been presented with the truth from the scriptures and still choose to ignore.

Mark 8
30 Then Yeshua warned them not to tell anyone about him. 31 He began teaching them that the Son of Man had to endure much suffering and be rejected by the elders, the head cohanim and the Torah-teachers; and that he had to be put to death; but that after three days, he had to rise again.

Mark 9
30 After leaving that place, they went on through the Galil. Yeshua didn’t want anyone to know, 31 because he was teaching his talmidim. He told them, “The Son of Man will be betrayed into the hands of men who will put him to death; but after he has been killed, three days later he will rise.”

Mark 10
33 “We are now going up to Yerushalayim, where the Son of Man will be handed over to the head cohanim and the Torah-teachers. They will sentence him to death and turn him over to the Goyim, 34 who will jeer at him, spit on him, beat him and kill him; but after three days, he will rise.”

LeClerc
bnabernard

While all this was going on with the son of man what was happening to the son of God?
Or is the son of God simply a man of God who is a chosen representative of God?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
While all this was going on with the son of man what was happening to the son of God?
Or is the son of God simply a man of God who is a chosen representative of God?


bernard (hug)


John 2
19 Yeshua answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
20 The Yehudim therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?"
21 But he spoke of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his talmidim remembered that he said this, and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Yeshua had said.


Please identitify the I in the above scripture.

His talmidim believed the scripture and the word which Y'shua had spoken, do you Bernie ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Do you believe that his disciples could become temples?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
While all this was going on with the son of man what was happening to the son of God?
Or is the son of God simply a man of God who is a chosen representative of God?


bernard (hug)


John 2
19 Yeshua answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
20 The Yehudim therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?"
21 But he spoke of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his talmidim remembered that he said this, and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Yeshua had said.


Please identitify the I in the above scripture.

His talmidim believed the scripture and the word which Y'shua had spoken, do you Bernie ?

bnabernard wrote:
Do you believe that his disciples could become temples?

bernard (hug)


No answer then Bernie ?

1 Corinthians 3
16 Don’t you know that you people are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? 17 So if anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you yourselves are that temple.

But you don't believe the above is part of scripture do you ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

So your reasoning is that the temple is God.
And we get back to God in a box and God in the flesh.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So your reasoning is that the temple is God.
And we get back to God in a box and God in the flesh.

bernard (hug)


Back to John 1 Bernie which you do not appear to believe.

Where is your dna Bernie ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So your reasoning is that the temple is God.
And we get back to God in a box and God in the flesh.

bernard (hug)


Back to John 1 Bernie which you do not appear to believe.

Where is your dna Bernie ?

LeClerc


LC you keep proving the son yet ignore it at the same time, sons of God are gods.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So your reasoning is that the temple is God.
And we get back to God in a box and God in the flesh.

bernard (hug)


Back to John 1 Bernie which you do not appear to believe.

Where is your dna Bernie ?

LeClerc


LC you keep proving the son yet ignore it at the same time, sons of God are gods.

bernard (hug)


The English word god does create confusion.

To some idols are gods, to some money is god, many religions worship there own god.

To those who believe Y'shua is Israel's Messiah there is only one God, YHWH.

There are in the Tanakh, those called Elohiym, but they are not to be worshipped, as using the English word God, there is only one Elohiym to whom worship is given His Name is YHWH.

It is interesting to learn the origins of the English word God.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well english, greek or whatever, english and complying with your understanding and exercising mine,
FATHER is the FATHER a son who is a set apart of the FATHER is a SON who himself can become a FATHER and of course there is not father as representative of son, just as you say there is not god representative of God, yet there is whether you or anybody else likes it or not, it's the specifics of language that help determine difference and sets things in order so that they can be understood.

You seem to be tangling yourself up trying to make the son the Father, because if it is as Yeshua says, there is only one Father his Father so though sons can become Fathers there remains one original Father.

You seem not to be able to accept that the son Yeshua is an offspring of God the Father.

Considering I have five brothers and we are all fathers we are not our Father but offspring of our father who is the offspring of his father untill you get back to Adam who is the offspring of his FATHER GOD.


You speak of 'set apart spirits' we talk about sperm and ova and its this combination of sperm and ova that dictate offspring, God from within himself sets apart spirit which combines with substance and beings are formed therefore all beings are temples of God, and we refer to beings that recognise their true father in heaven as gods because they recognise and are faithful to their father in heaven.
This term of god might be referenced in many ways Nazarites, angels, or simply holy people.
As you say gods can be false, but in general we know when we are talking of a god of GOD a son a temple.
And as we saw, the temple housed the word of God in Jerusalem, the ark held the word of God, And we get back to the son as Israel because Israel had the word of God at it's heart in the temple.

bernard (hug)
cole209

Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.
bnabernard

It's fairly simple. God gives birth to substance and imparts life to substance.
Mirror

Out of Adam comes Eve and they give birth to generations.

Or, it takes two to tango.

bernard (hug)
cole209

bnabernard wrote:
Well english, greek or whatever, english and complying with your understanding and exercising mine,
FATHER is the FATHER a son who is a set apart of the FATHER is a SON who himself can become a FATHER and of course there is not father as representative of son, just as you say there is not god representative of God, yet there is whether you or anybody else likes it or not, it's the specifics of language that help determine difference and sets things in order so that they can be understood.

You seem to be tangling yourself up trying to make the son the Father, because if it is as Yeshua says, there is only one Father his Father so though sons can become Fathers there remains one original Father.

You seem not to be able to accept that the son Yeshua is an offspring of God the Father.

Considering I have five brothers and we are all fathers we are not our Father but offspring of our father who is the offspring of his father untill you get back to Adam who is the offspring of his FATHER GOD.


You speak of 'set apart spirits' we talk about sperm and ova and its this combination of sperm and ova that dictate offspring, God from within himself sets apart spirit which combines with substance and beings are formed therefore all beings are temples of God, and we refer to beings that recognise their true father in heaven as gods because they recognise and are faithful to their father in heaven.
This term of god might be referenced in many ways Nazarites, angels, or simply holy people.
As you say gods can be false, but in general we know when we are talking of a god of GOD a son a temple.
And as we saw, the temple housed the word of God in Jerusalem, the ark held the word of God, And we get back to the son as Israel because Israel had the word of God at it's heart in the temple.

bernard (hug)



I have no idea what that has to do with the request in the OP.  I wonder if you might explain?
bnabernard

I could probably concoct something about life and spirit and death but realy it has nothing to do directly with the op, simply reflects a gravitation towards the trinity, sorry.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: Matthew 12:40

Morning Cole

cole209 wrote:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?


If we turn to Matthew 20
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,[a] and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’

8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”


We learn that according to Y'shua, there are twelve hours in a day.

Those that were hired first, made an accusation that those who were hired at the elevnth hour only worked one hour.

This understanding is also confirmed in John 11

9 Yeshua answered, "Aren't there twelve hours of daylight? If a man walks in the day, he doesn't stumble, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if a man walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light isn't in him."


If there are twelve hours in a day there must be twelve hours in a night therefore three days and three nights makes 72 hours.

Many try to use a so called Jewish idiom for counting any part of a whole day as a day to support a sixth day crucifixion but the fact Y'shua uses the phrase three days and three nights  seems to rule this understanding out.

This being the only Sign The Messiah was going to give, the sign would be what the scriptures teach, three days and three nights, ie 72 hours.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Quote:
‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us


bernard (hug)


How does that have any relevance to the OP.

LeClerc
bnabernard

It shows that part of a day is equal to a whole day.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning bernie

bnabernard wrote:
It shows that part of a day is equal to a whole day.

bernard (hug)


No Bernie, those who came to the conclusion you came to were chastised for it were they not

It shows that that those who agreed to work for a denarius were paid what they agreed.

If the owner agreed to pay the others the same who had done less work that was between the owner and the other workers.

Those who agreed a denarius received what they had agreed.

LeClerc
bnabernard

No, that would only apply if the late comers had sat idly by watching, however if they came late in the day for good reason then needs are met according to wisdom rather petty predjudice.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
No, that would only apply if the late comers had sat idly by watching, however if they came late in the day for good reason then needs are met according to wisdom rather petty predjudice.

bernard (hug)


Exactly

Matthew 12
11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?

Those who agreed a denarius were paid what they agreed.

They were chastised for reaching the conclusion you reached

bnabernard wrote:
‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us

bernard (hug)


bnabernard wrote:
It shows that part of a day is equal to a whole day.

bernard (hug)


What the passage does prove is that Y'shua taught there were twelve hours in a day.

This understanding is also confirmed in John 11

9 Yeshua answered, "Aren't there twelve hours of daylight? If a man walks in the day, he doesn't stumble, because he sees the light of this world.
10 But if a man walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light isn't in him."


If there are twelve hours in a day there must be twelve hours in a night therefore three days and three nights makes 72 hours.

Many try to use a so called Jewish idiom for counting any part of a whole day as a day to support a sixth day crucifixion but the fact Y'shua uses the phrase three days and three nights  seems to rule this understanding out.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Quote:
Many try to use a so called Jewish idiom for counting any part of a whole day as a day to support a sixth day crucifixion but the fact Y'shua uses the phrase three days and three nights  seems to rule this understanding out.


Sems to rule out does not rule out, faced with reality what would be expected, does a man have to speak in hours?
How precise has the days to be, how precise is Jonah's time in the belly of hell, or heart of sea.

What you have is a worker recieving wages set by the employer, in this case the Father pays and the son recieves.

The Father who is life does not take life away from the son, unlike Adam the first who lost his right to retain life Yeshua/Jesus kept the right to retain life, he also earnt the right for others to share that life that he had been given and it is by becomeing obedient to the Father in the nature of a son, likening oneself to the son Yesshua that man to earns the right to become a son of the Father God, .


Through the teaching's of the son one can come to see the Father, one does not look at the son and see the Father.

One can however invisage the Father when one reaches a plato that allows the man to see with the eyes of the son, however then one does not see with the eyes, do they?

bernard (hug)

What has changed by the comming of the son?
One still needs to be obedient to God the Father and reject the offerings of the rebelious spirit, just as it had always been the case because after all there were Enoch, Noah, Melechizedeck Abraham, Moses, Elijah and so on, each one forgiven and earning their place.

What was the purpose of Yeshua given that salvation had already been in place before he came as the son?


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:


What has changed by the comming of the son?
One still needs to be obedient to God the Father and reject the offerings of the rebelious spirit, just as it had always been the case because after all there were Enoch, Noah, Melechizedeck Abraham, Moses, Elijah and so on, each one forgiven and earning their place.

What was the purpose of Yeshua given that salvation had already been in place before he came as the son?
bernard (hug)


Salvation has always been by grace Bernie, however.

Hebrews 10
For the law, having a shadow of the good to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near.

John 1
29 The next day, he saw Yeshua coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Only the precious blood of Y'shua can pay the debt we owe, once for all.

Revelation 7
14 I told him, "My lord, you know." He said to me, "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Is there now no sin, has it been taken away from the world?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Is there now no sin, has it been taken away from the world?

bernard (hug)


1 John 1
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yeshua the Messiah, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we haven't sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


LeClerc
bnabernard

I see, so nothing has changed and it's the same for a man today as it was for the men I have mentioned, other than of course than the time of Noah when the world was populated by eight righteous people.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I see, so nothing has changed and it's the same for a man today as it was for the men I have mentioned, other than of course than the time of Noah when the world was populated by eight righteous people.

bernard (hug)


Luke 16
31 "He said to him, 'If they don't listen to Moshe and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.'"

LeClerc
bnabernard

What was significant about the tomb of Elisha?

Clue it involved a dead soldier.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What was significant about the tomb of Elisha?

Clue it involved a dead soldier.

bernard (hug)


Had the soldier been dead three days and three nights ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What was significant about the tomb of Elisha?

Clue it involved a dead soldier.

bernard (hug)


Had the soldier been dead three days and three nights ?

LeClerc


Ever heard of a wake? back in them days there was always a chance that a person would rise from the dead, however a man killed in battle tends to leave a question mark if they rise from the dead.

So what have you got then then? a man rises from the dead after three days, iffy situation now because men have risen from the dead.

So what you quote is a reasonable statement, Moses was the agent of wonderous miracles where he had faced out against lesser gods than he as an agent in law to YHWH.

If people were not to have faith and belief in the prophets then they would surely not have faith in a man rising from the dead, old hat they would say.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
What was significant about the tomb of Elisha?

Clue it involved a dead soldier.

bernard (hug)


Had the soldier been dead three days and three nights ?

LeClerc


Ever heard of a wake? back in them days there was always a chance that a person would rise from the dead, however a man killed in battle tends to leave a question mark if they rise from the dead.

So what have you got then then? a man rises from the dead after three days, iffy situation now because men have risen from the dead.

So what you quote is a reasonable statement, Moses was the agent of wonderous miracles where he had faced out against lesser gods than he as an agent in law to YHWH.

If people were not to have faith and belief in the prophets then they would surely not have faith in a man rising from the dead, old hat they would say.

bernard (hug)


When Y'shua heard of the death of Lazarus

John 11
1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

Why did Y'shua stay a further two days?

John 11
6 When therefore he heard that he was sick, he stayed two days in the place where he was.

If Y'shua had not waited two days Lazarus would have been in the tomb only two days when he arrived, as it was Lazarus had been in the tomb four days.

John 11
17 So when Yeshua came, he found that he had been in the tomb four days already.

There is Hebraic reasoning for the delay.

LeClerc
bnabernard

For heavens sake LC have you no concept of a wake and the waking period?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
For heavens sake LC have you no concept of a wake and the waking period?

bernard (hug)


and you will find this reference where in the Torah ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

 
You are real arent you    


bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
 
You are real arent you    


bernard (hug)


I asked a very serious question.

bnabernard wrote:
For heavens sake LC have you no concept of a wake and the waking period?

bernard (hug)


and you will find this reference where in the Torah ?

Its not there is it Bernie ? So where does ''a wake'' which you refer too have its origins ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Its not there is it Bernie ? So where does ''a wake'' which you refer too have its origins ?

Way before your written word came into existence, and it was not seculer in tradition,

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Afternoon Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Its not there is it Bernie ? So where does ''a wake'' which you refer too have its origins ?

Way before your written word came into existence, and it was not seculer in tradition,

bernard (hug)


As you have said Bernie, prove it.

LeClerc
rstrats

I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.
rstrats

Since has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.
Farmer Geddon

Whatever happened to Clerky?
rstrats

Since it has once again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.
Truster

restarts wrote:
Since has once again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.



Messiah was nailed to a stake at 9am on Passover Wednesday April 25th 31 AD (14 Nisan 3791) < Mark 15:25, Dan 9:1, 24-27>
Messiah died at 3pm <Matt 27:45-50, Mark 15:33-37, Luke 23:44-46>

Messiah resurrected Saturday evening  April 28th 31AD <Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2,9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19>

Hope this clarifies the matter for you.
rstrats

Truster,

re:  "Hope this clarifies the matter for you."

I'm afraid I don't see where your post provides any writing from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.
rstrats

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.
LeClerc

Hi rstrats

rstrats wrote:
Truster,

re:  "Hope this clarifies the matter for you."

I'm afraid I don't see where your post provides any writing from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.


Job 2
13 And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great.

How long would seven days and seven nights be ?

Regards

LeClerc
rstrats

LeClerc,

re:  "How long would seven days and seven nights be ?"


If you mean how many hours, the passage doesn't say.
LeClerc

Hi rstrats

rstrats wrote:
LeClerc,

re:  "How long would seven days and seven nights be ?"


If you mean how many hours, the passage doesn't say.


The Hebrew day begins at sunset does it not and the first part of the day is night is it not.

Regards

LeClerc
rstrats

LeClerc,

re:  "The Hebrew day begins at sunset does it not and the first part of the day is night is it not."

Yes, that is the general consensus.   But I'm afraid I don't see your point with regard to the OP?
LeClerc

Hi rstrats

rstrats wrote:
LeClerc,

re:  "The Hebrew day begins at sunset does it not and the first part of the day is night is it not."

Yes, that is the general consensus.   But I'm afraid I don't see your point with regard to the OP?


Seven days and seven nights means exactly that seven periods of day and seven periods of night.

Regards

LeClerc
rstrats

LeClerc,

re:  "Seven days and seven nights means exactly that seven periods of day and seven periods of night."

But the 6th day of the week crucifixion adherents say that 3 days and 3 nights only means 3 days and 2 nights.   They frequently argue that Matthew 12:40 is simply using common Jewish idiomatic language . The OP is simply asking them if they know of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
LeClerc

Morning  rstrats

rstrats wrote:
LeClerc,

re:  "Seven days and seven nights means exactly that seven periods of day and seven periods of night."

But the 6th day of the week crucifixion adherents say that 3 days and 3 nights only means 3 days and 2 nights.


Agreed rstrats

rstrats wrote:
They frequently argue that Matthew 12:40 is simply using common Jewish idiomatic language . The OP is simply asking them if they know of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?


Firstly I do not hold to a sixth day of the week crucifixion but to a forth day of the week crucifixion.

In answer to your question if we turn to Genesis 1
3 Then Elohim said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 Elohim saw the light was good. So Elohim separated the light from the darkness. 5 Elohim named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning—the first day.

From the above passage it can be seen that ‘’day’’ means a period of light whereas ‘’night’’ means a period of dark.

However ‘’day’’ can also mean the period of light and dark combined this can be seen from

Genesis 2
3 Then Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation.

Or is one going to say that Elohim only blessed the part of the seventh day when it was light.

Now to simplify things lets that say a period of 24 hours consists of twelve hours of darkness and twelve hours of light.
Now night would refer to the twelve hours of darkness however day could mean 12 hours of light or the whole 24 hours.

From this we can discern that if one says they will be gone one day they could mean any period of time from 12 hours to 24 hours but if one said they will be gone one day and one night they would mean the whole of the twenty four hours.

Now if one says they will be gone three days they could be gone any period of time from thirty six hours to seventy two hours but if one says they will be gone three days and three nights they mean 72 hours.

Those who hold the teaching that Messiah was crucified on the sixth day.

The first ''day'' is the remaining period of light of the sixth day of the week, the second ''day'' is the period of darkness and the period of light of the seventh day of the week, the third ''day'' is the period of darkness and the period of light of the first day of the week day.

However

John 20 Hebrew Names Version
1 Now on the first day of the week, Miryam from Magdala went early, while it was still dark, to the tomb, and saw the stone taken away from the tomb.

Firstly we have a period of darkness missing ie one night, we have the night period of the seventh day of the week and the night period of the first day of the week.

Secondly we have are missing the light period of the first day of the week since Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb whilst it was still dark.

Thirdly to get a sixth day crucifixion of fit one also has to call night, a period of light.

Y’shua said

Matthew 12 Hebrew Names Version
39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given it but the sign of Yonah the prophet.40For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the eretz.

Three day and three nights is exactly what the Messiah Y'shua says it is, three days and three nights.

Regards

LeClerc
bnabernard

Yet when Jesus comanded the wind and the sea he did not say let there be an evening up of pressures or let the cold front become a warm front, or some such thing?

Are you so sure that Jonah was swallowed at an exact moment and regurgitated again at an exact moment, cos a moment either side ....?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Yet when Jesus comanded the wind and the sea he did not say let there be an evening up of pressures or let the cold front become a warm front, or some such thing?

Are you so sure that Jonah was swallowed at an exact moment and regurgitated again at an exact moment, cos a moment either side ....?

bernard (hug)


Luke 8
24 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!”
He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. 25 “Where is your faith?” he asked his disciples.


Where is your faith Bernie ?

Regards

LeClerc
rstrats

Since it's been awhile, someone new looking in may know of some writing.
LeClerc

Hi

rstrats wrote:
Since it's been awhile, someone new looking in may know of some writing.


Firstly I do not hold to a sixth day of the week crucifixion but to a forth day of the week crucifixion.

In answer to your question if we turn to Genesis 1
3 Then Elohim said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 Elohim saw the light was good. So Elohim separated the light from the darkness. 5 Elohim named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning—the first day.

From the above passage it can be seen that ‘’day’’ means a period of light whereas ‘’night’’ means a period of dark.

However ‘’day’’ can also mean the period of light and dark combined this can be seen from

Genesis 2
3 Then Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation.

Or is one going to say that Elohim only blessed the part of the seventh day when it was light.

Now to simplify things lets that say a period of 24 hours consists of twelve hours of darkness and twelve hours of light.
Now night would refer to the twelve hours of darkness however day could mean 12 hours of light or the whole 24 hours.

From this we can discern that if one says they will be gone one day they could mean any period of time from 12 hours to 24 hours but if one said they will be gone one day and one night they would mean the whole of the twenty four hours.

Now if one says they will be gone three days they could be gone any period of time from thirty six hours to seventy two hours but if one says they will be gone three days and three nights they mean 72 hours.

Those who hold the teaching that Messiah was crucified on the sixth day.

The first ''day'' is the remaining period of light of the sixth day of the week, the second ''day'' is the period of darkness and the period of light of the seventh day of the week, the third ''day'' is the period of darkness and the period of light of the first day of the week day.

However

John 20 Hebrew Names Version
1 Now on the first day of the week, Miryam from Magdala went early, while it was still dark, to the tomb, and saw the stone taken away from the tomb.

Firstly we have a period of darkness missing ie one night, we have the night period of the seventh day of the week and the night period of the first day of the week.

Secondly we have are missing the light period of the first day of the week since Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb whilst it was still dark.

Thirdly to get a sixth day crucifixion of fit one also has to call night, a period of light.

Y’shua said

Matthew 12 Hebrew Names Version
39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given it but the sign of Yonah the prophet.40For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the eretz.

Three day and three nights is exactly what the Messiah Y'shua says it is, three days and three nights.

Regards

LeClerc
rstrats

Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, may know of some writing as requested in the OP.
rstrats

LeClerc,

re:  "Firstly I do not hold to a sixth day of the week crucifixion..."

OK, perhaps someone new looking in who does will know of some writing.
JamesJah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoPTvXn_t0
Mr Tim

Greetings LeClerc, rstrats and everyone,

LeClerc wrote:

Secondly we have are missing the light period of the first day of the week since Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb whilst it was still dark.


John does say, however, that it was the first day of the week. This agrees with the other gospels. John saying that it was still dark would not rule out it being just after sunrise (Mark 16:2).

I've found two Old Testament passages that mention something happening on the third day: Exodus 19:16 (where it happens in the morning) and Esther 5:1. Although there is not the specific mention of three days and three nights, the 'third day' is a partial day, because the thing that was going to happen, happens during that day.

There are 13 New Testament references to Jesus' resurrection on the 'third day', and the 11 of these in the gospel accounts all include a mention of Christ's suffering, usually specified as his deliverance to the Gentiles, his rejection by the Jewish elders and his death (see: Matthew 16:21, 17:22, 20:18; Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:34, Luke 9:22, 18:31, 24:7, 24:25, 24:46). This seems to indicate that the three days and three nights includes the time from when he was betrayed onwards.

The phrase, 'the heart of the earth', seems to refer not just to Jesus' burial, but to sinful man. Jesus compares sinful man with the 'earth' in his parable of the sower.

This means that if we go with Jesus' death on the 6th day, the three nights in the heart of the earth would be Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. The three days would be Friday, Saturday and a small part of Sunday (which counts as the third day, according to the use of the term, 'the third day' in Esther 5:1.)
JamesJah

Mr Tim wrote:
Greetings LeClerc, rstrats and everyone,

LeClerc wrote:

Secondly we have are missing the light period of the first day of the week since Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb whilst it was still dark.


John does say, however, that it was the first day of the week. This agrees with the other gospels. John saying that it was still dark would not rule out it being just after sunrise (Mark 16:2).

I've found two Old Testament passages that mention something happening on the third day: Exodus 19:16 (where it happens in the morning) and Esther 5:1. Although there is not the specific mention of three days and three nights, the 'third day' is a partial day, because the thing that was going to happen, happens during that day.

There are 13 New Testament references to Jesus' resurrection on the 'third day', and the 11 of these in the gospel accounts all include a mention of Christ's suffering, usually specified as his deliverance to the Gentiles, his rejection by the Jewish elders and his death (see: Matthew 16:21, 17:22, 20:18; Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:34, Luke 9:22, 18:31, 24:7, 24:25, 24:46). This seems to indicate that the three days and three nights includes the time from when he was betrayed onwards.

The phrase, 'the heart of the earth', seems to refer not just to Jesus' burial, but to sinful man. Jesus compares sinful man with the 'earth' in his parable of the sower.

This means that if we go with Jesus' death on the 6th day, the three nights in the heart of the earth would be Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. The three days would be Friday, Saturday and a small part of Sunday (which counts as the third day, according to the use of the term, 'the third day' in Esther 5:1.)


Does this help>>\/

Genesis 1:5
And there was evening and there was morning, a first day.
Jim

JW's believe dinosaurs were created between 6000 and 20,000 years ago....
http://www.jwbeliefs.com/jehovahs...ieve-dinosaurs-lived-with-humans/

Trash!
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JW's believe dinosaurs were created between 6000 and 20,000 years ago....
http://www.jwbeliefs.com/jehovahs...ieve-dinosaurs-lived-with-humans/

Trash!


This might help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWe3cteDuBc
Jim

Won't bother watching it.
Homo Sapiens first appeared around 150,000 years ago.
Dinosaurs dissappeared 7o million years ago.
No trash from Brooklyn can change that.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Won't bother watching it.
Homo Sapiens first appeared around 150,000 years ago.
Dinosaurs dissappeared 7o million years ago.
No trash from Brooklyn can change that.


60,000 yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable, you are still in the Rutherford science period where he tried to discredit Kelvin that is if you have a clue as to what I am referring too I am certain some one can bring you up to date.
Jim

Rubbish!"
60, 000 years ago, there were several hominid species around.
Don't peddle your Watchtower and youtube trash as if it were fact, James - it isn't.
I myself have handlled organic and inorganic remains from the Badarian cultures dating from 4000-7000BC (I'm yet to be convinced of sample TN4 BV which is purported to show human occupation of a site in Middle Rgypt, with associated material, dfrom c9,000 BC.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Rubbish!"
60, 000 years ago, there were several hominid species around.
Don't peddle your Watchtower and youtube trash as if it were fact, James - it isn't.
I myself have handlled organic and inorganic remains from the Badarian cultures dating from 4000-7000BC (I'm yet to be convinced of sample TN4 BV which is purported to show human occupation of a site in Middle Rgypt, with associated material, dfrom c9,000 BC.


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable. I would rather believe the creator than the evolution rubbish that things can make themselves if you do not mind.
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Rubbish!"
60, 000 years ago, there were several hominid species around.
Don't peddle your Watchtower and youtube trash as if it were fact, James - it isn't.
I myself have handlled organic and inorganic remains from the Badarian cultures dating from 4000-7000BC (I'm yet to be convinced of sample TN4 BV which is purported to show human occupation of a site in Middle Rgypt, with associated material, dfrom c9,000 BC.


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable. I would rather believe the creator than the evolution rubbish that things can make themselves if you do not mind.
 
-
This would be the same Creator who created abundant evidence to show the ancient earth, multiple hominids, ancient human cultures, evolving communities, civillisations, etc?
Why would the God who is Truth knowingly create a world which is deception?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Rubbish!"
60, 000 years ago, there were several hominid species around.
Don't peddle your Watchtower and youtube trash as if it were fact, James - it isn't.
I myself have handlled organic and inorganic remains from the Badarian cultures dating from 4000-7000BC (I'm yet to be convinced of sample TN4 BV which is purported to show human occupation of a site in Middle Rgypt, with associated material, dfrom c9,000 BC.


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable. I would rather believe the creator than the evolution rubbish that things can make themselves if you do not mind.
 
-
This would be the same Creator who created abundant evidence to show the ancient earth, multiple hominids, ancient human cultures, evolving communities, civillisations, etc?
Why would the God who is Truth knowingly create a world which is deception?


The same creator who told you about the Nehalem and the Giants in the land those fossils evolutionist still try to keep hidden from the public who just would not understand.

Then the bible does teach some people love to have it that way does it not?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Rubbish!"
60, 000 years ago, there were several hominid species around.
Don't peddle your Watchtower and youtube trash as if it were fact, James - it isn't.
I myself have handlled organic and inorganic remains from the Badarian cultures dating from 4000-7000BC (I'm yet to be convinced of sample TN4 BV which is purported to show human occupation of a site in Middle Rgypt, with associated material, dfrom c9,000 BC.


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable. I would rather believe the creator than the evolution rubbish that things can make themselves if you do not mind.
 
-
This would be the same Creator who created abundant evidence to show the ancient earth, multiple hominids, ancient human cultures, evolving communities, civillisations, etc?
Why would the God who is Truth knowingly create a world which is deception?


The same creator who told you about the Nehalem and the Giants in the land those fossils evolutionist still try to keep hidden from the public who just would not understand.

Then the bible does teach some people love to have it that way does it not?
 
-James: the Brooklyn mob would have it that man first appeared c6000 BC.
Google the following:
Mount Carmel lady.
Olduvai Gorge
Badarian culture
Proto hominid development in Europe.
Evidence for Mesolithic development in Britain.
Would a God deliberately send false evidence to His creation?
Yes or No.


Oh, by the way...here's evidence from this God-created world of ours....of a European man who lived 47,000 years ago....
http://archaeology.org/news/2692-141107-kostenki-european-dna
Care to refute it, and, if so, using what grounds?
Sebastian Toe

JamesJah wrote:


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable..

No it doesn't.
But if it did, it would be wrong.
Jim

[quote="Sebastian Toe:123127"]
JamesJah wrote:


Sorry the bible teaches that 49m000yrs ago the earth was uninhabitable..

No it doesn't.
-
Correct!
-
But if it did, it would be wrong.
-
Good job it teaches no such thing, then!
JamesJah

As the creators where here at the time I must take their explanation of the events far above any other person who normally has a corrupt agenda or wishes to indulge the corrupt flesh, it is usually the stamp of the apostates.

John 17:16-19
They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19 And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth.
Jim

Nope.
Not seeing any dates for a desolate earth or 600 BC man there.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Nope.
Not seeing any dates for a desolate earth or 600 BC man there.


You do not surprise me, if you can be happy believing apostate propaganda you might ask them first if I can show you or not, so then you will know what to say so that you can keep the entrenched ideas that you are happy to believe regardless of who teaches them.

You could cheat and ask online at WT.org
Jim

What "apostate propoganda", JIames?
Please show, given evidence, where the dates for human development, civilisation, cultural, agricultural and other signs of human activities, including archaeologicical excavations, organic remains, etc, are incorrect.
Just prove the God given mind of man, using the tools at his disposal, wrong, James.
One irrefutation of evidence will suffice.
Just one.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
What "apostate propoganda", JIames?
Please show, given evidence, where the dates for human development, civilisation, cultural, agricultural and other signs of human activities, including archaeologicical excavations, organic remains, etc, are incorrect.
Just prove the God given mind of man, using the tools at his disposal, wrong, James.
One irrefutation of evidence will suffice.
Just one.


If they gave you truth and not money making ego centric teachings you might stand a chance of understanding something.

The choice is yours the bible just says quite plainly. to the Hebrews, Do not learn of their gods or ask in what way they worshiped incase you get your self seduced so some good advice for those who would rather pleas their creator than gratify their desires.

The bible traces mans history four thousand years from Jesus and he did not point out any defects in the Hebrew writings so who do you hold as more reliable than he is?
Jim

So, that'll be a 'no' then?
You cannot provide any evidence outside your cult's interpretation of Scripture to back up your assertion?
Didn't think so.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
So, that'll be a 'no' then?
You cannot provide any evidence outside your cult's interpretation of Scripture to back up your assertion?
Didn't think so.


How long is the day of creation?
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:123154"]
Jim wrote:
So, that'll be a 'no' then?
You cannot provide any evidence outside your cult's interpretation of Scripture to back up your assertion?
Didn't think so.


How long is the day of creation?
=
Which part of "you cannot provide any evidence outside your cult"
are you having difficulty in understanding, James?
JamesJah

[quote="Jim:123157"]
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
So, that'll be a 'no' then?
You cannot provide any evidence outside your cult's interpretation of Scripture to back up your assertion?
Didn't think so.


How long is the day of creation?
=
Which part of "you cannot provide any evidence outside your cult"
are you having difficulty in understanding, James?


A don't know would have sufficed.

When is the last day, the Sabbath going to end?

Another do not know will do.
Jim

James:
Are you unable to substantiate your dates for a desolate earth and the coming of man?
Yes or no...?
Waiting.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
James:
Are you unable to substantiate your dates for a desolate earth and the coming of man?
Yes or no...?
Waiting.


Yes I am,

If you can tell me when the last gat when God rested comes to an end.
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
James:
Are you unable to substantiate your dates for a desolate earth and the coming of man?
Yes or no...?
Waiting.


Yes I am,

If you can tell me when the last gat when God rested comes to an end.

-
'If'?
Why so shy, James?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
James:
Are you unable to substantiate your dates for a desolate earth and the coming of man?
Yes or no...?
Waiting.


Yes I am,

If you can tell me when the last gat when God rested comes to an end.

-
'If'?
Why so shy, James?


Your knowledge of scripture is quite sparse establishing what you do believe quite difficult as it would appear that you are afraid to be thought of as thinking in harmony with a people you prefer to hate.

How can you eat meat when milk is difficult for you?
Jim

What my knowledge of Scripture is, or is not, James, is irrelevent to the thread. I asked you for evidence.
You have spectacularly failed to provide it.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
What my knowledge of Scripture is, or is not, James, is irrelevent to the thread. I asked you for evidence.
You have spectacularly failed to provide it.


Is that the way your  trinity god teaches you to talk or is iy your own idea?
Mr Tim

JamesJah wrote:

Does this help>>\/

Genesis 1:5
And there was evening and there was morning, a first day.


Yes, that's useful. It's interesting that the three days and nights are only mentioned in Matthew, because he also gives the chronolgy of Jesus' betrayal, death and resurrection in terms of two evenings and mornings, and one day in between them. See Mat. 26:20, 27:1, 27:37, 27:62, 28:1.
rstrats

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.
LeClerc

Hello Tim, welcome.

Mr Tim wrote:
Greetings LeClerc, rstrats and everyone,

LeClerc wrote:

Secondly we have are missing the light period of the first day of the week since Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb whilst it was still dark.


John does say, however, that it was the first day of the week. This agrees with the other gospels. John saying that it was still dark would not rule out it being just after sunrise (Mark 16:2).



Indeed Tim, but this is the time Miryam from Magdala went to the tomb, are you saying The Messiah, Y'shua ben Yosef of Nazareth, rose from the dead after sunrise on the first day of the week ?

Regards

LeClerc

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