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Delrick53

Multiverse

A couple of threads at the Beeb degenerated (for me) when the usual suspect started the hair-splitting personal attack stuff, and the threads became a bully-fest.

But I'm still reading about the possibilities that the various multiverse theories throw up.

I still maintain that with the multiverse, there is no need for a 'creator', but there is need for imaginative thought and as near an understanding as possible of infinite 'time' and infinite space.

I don't 'do' quantum mechanics, although I have read a wee book on the subject recommended by SusanD.

But I do 'do' the very big. Infinitely big, in fact.

I don't think anyone with a functioning, rational brain will ever claim that our universe is all there is, or has ever been, but it can be difficult to grasp the enormity of it all, and I was pleased to discover that I'm not the only one who goes dizzy when I think about infinity, and what that means.

So -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

I've put this in the atheist section, although as you'll see, Hindu theology does seen to fit multiverse theory in some ways.

Thoughts ?
Dave B

I am just going to spectate on this one. I will admit that this is one area where I cannot get my brain around the idea of multiple universes.

But, as with dark matter, one waits with interest.
----------

The problem with the various multiverse theories is that they describe a reality that is SO far from our experience, we really can't cope with the concept. It's true that the mathematical models work, but if we are incapable of actually understanding in any meaningful way . . . . is it any better than magic?
IvyOwl

'If you think you can talk about quantum theory without feeling dizzy, you haven't understood the first thing about it.'  

Niels Bohr

Well I get dizzy so I must have understood a bit!

IO
Dave B

IvyOwl wrote:
'If you think you can talk about quantum theory without feeling dizzy, you haven't understood the first thing about it.'  

Niels Bohr

Well I get dizzy so I must have understood a bit!

IO
Ah, does alcohol aid in understanding QT then I wonder? I know that all kinds of things seem so easy to me when I'm on the outside of a bottle of wine. The next morning I just wonder what the hell all those cryptic notes mean!
Lexilogio

I don't understand why a Multiverse would negate the existence of a Creator?

Surely the very notion of heaven is suggestive of a Multiverse?
Delrick53

Lexilogio wrote:
I don't understand why a Multiverse would negate the existence of a Creator?

Surely the very notion of heaven is suggestive of a Multiverse?


Lexi - Infinite in time and space remember - where could you put a creator ?

Think about what infinite means (best to lie down first).

There is a theory that our universe was created my a super intelligence, but NOT a god. A bit like you getting all the ingredients together, mixing them a certain way, applying an energy force and producing a cake.

We know how to do it, but the logistics aren't there. Who's to say that an alien super-intelligence hasn't done this already, many times ?
Delrick53

Dave B wrote:
I am just going to spectate on this one. I will admit that this is one area where I cannot get my brain around the idea of multiple universes.

But, as with dark matter, one waits with interest.
.

Nonsense Dave.

Glass of wine and a comfy lie down - think what infinity is - half way there !

It makes sense, and answers a lot of questions. You just have to accept that our universe is one of an infinite number.

Had a quick look at the artificial cell thing - Google Craig Venter, the Torygraph article is informative.
Delrick53

The Heretic wrote:
The problem with the various multiverse theories is that they describe a reality that is SO far from our experience, we really can't cope with the concept. It's true that the mathematical models work, but if we are incapable of actually understanding in any meaningful way . . . . is it any better than magic?


THeretic,

I think you're talking about QM and the parallell universes/multi-dimensional stuff. I'm not.

Imagine yourself reaching the physical boundary of our universe. Then keep going. What will you find ?

Too many people are stuck with a mindset similar to Middle-Ages explorers (or rather, their critics).

'This is it there's nothing else'

'You'll fall off the edge of the world'

'Here be dragons !'

There are still billions of people who think each star is just that - a single entity - a series of individual suns.

Discovering what those lights actually are was mind blowing, and the scale is incredible.

But compared to infinite space, our universe is an insignificant speck.
Delrick53

IvyOwl wrote:
'If you think you can talk about quantum theory without feeling dizzy, you haven't understood the first thing about it.'  

Niels Bohr

Well I get dizzy so I must have understood a bit!

IO


IO,

Want to borrow my blood pressure monitor ?
Delrick53

I'll try and find the link to an interview Michio Kaku gave fairly recently.

He explains it better that I can, but watch it please.

Then switch in your thinkyboxes.
Dave B

Quote:
Had a quick look at the artificial cell thing
For some reason, Delrick, that bothers me a little.

Probably read far too much sci-fi! (But it is amazing how often the stories are right is it not?)
Lexilogio

Delrick53 wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I don't understand why a Multiverse would negate the existence of a Creator?

Surely the very notion of heaven is suggestive of a Multiverse?


Lexi - Infinite in time and space remember - where could you put a creator ?

Think about what infinite means (best to lie down first).

There is a theory that our universe was created my a super intelligence, but NOT a god. A bit like you getting all the ingredients together, mixing them a certain way, applying an energy force and producing a cake.

We know how to do it, but the logistics aren't there. Who's to say that an alien super-intelligence hasn't done this already, many times ?


Not all Multiverse theories work on infinity. Some base a theory around 10 or 12 dimensions, for example. Then there is the view that the Universe itself is a doughnut.....
Delrick53

I posted this a couple of times at the Beeb but I don't think many people watched it.

To much of this

from the religious, scared, and 'I don't have an imagination' types I suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZiROWO6iVs&feature=related
Lexilogio

Delrick53 wrote:
I'll try and find the link to an interview Michio Kaku gave fairly recently.

He explains it better that I can, but watch it please.

Then switch in your thinkyboxes.


I've read one of his books. Can't remember which one though - but it was fascinating stuff.
Delrick53

[quote="Lexilogio"]
Delrick53 wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I don't understand why a Multiverse would negate the existence of a Creator?

Surely the very notion of heaven is suggestive of a Multiverse?


Lexi - Infinite in time and space remember - where could you put a creator ?

Think about what infinite means (best to lie down first).

There is a theory that our universe was created my a super intelligence, but NOT a god. A bit like you getting all the ingredients together, mixing them a certain way, applying an energy force and producing a cake.

We know how to do it, but the logistics aren't there. Who's to say that an alien super-intelligence hasn't done this already, many times ?



Yup, I know that Lexi, and I admit I can't get my head around the 11 dimension hyperspace and QT stuff.

The theory I'm talking about is the 'bubble' one and similar. No need for multiple dimensions, just infinite space.

I've got a few books that look at the subject - Kaku's 'Parallel Worlds', Paul Davies 'The Goldilocks Enigma' (recommended by Skillful !), and my favourite, because I found it the easiest to understand - John Gribben's 'In Search of the Multiverse'.

If you watch the video, you'll hear Kaku talking about faith, gods, and creation. This led to some creationists to claim 'Leading physicist believes in God and Genesis', or similar.

Makes me wonder which universe THEY inhabit !


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