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cyberman

On the level...

The Freemasons have cropped up on another thread. Interesting topic. I wondered if anyone on the forum is a mason? Is anyone supportive of them? What do people think of masonry in general?

Me, I am not a fan, to say the least. They are secretive about both their actions and their agenda. I think their practices and ethos are incompatible with my faith - which is not a bad thing in itself, of course; people are allowed to disagree with me, I s'pose - but it does make it problematic that masons hold senior positions within the CofE (possibly other churches too, I don't know).

For the record, I was once invited to join, and politely declined.
Jim

Re: On the level...

As you've probably gathered, I'm not a fan of masonry.
I have difficulties with the secrecy bit, and their efforts to project a 'whiter than white' image. I know, however, of a friend - a mason - who managed to avoid certain criminal charges after being caught driving a car which was totally unroadworthy. The officer who stopped him was a fellow mason. What gets me is that my friend was totally unashamed in admitting that it was only the 'craft' that saved him from court.
This, IMHO, is totalkly wrong.
cyberman

Re: On the level...

Jim wrote:
As you've probably gathered, I'm not a fan of masonry.
I have difficulties with the secrecy bit, and their efforts to project a 'whiter than white' image. I know, however, of a friend - a mason - who managed to avoid certain criminal charges after being caught driving a car which was totally unroadworthy. The officer who stopped him was a fellow mason. What gets me is that my friend was totally unashamed in admitting that it was only the 'craft' that saved him from court.
This, IMHO, is totalkly wrong.


Quite - absolutely unacceptable.
Of course, plenty of coppers manage to be dishonest, corrupt and unaccountable without being masons, but masonry certainly accounts for a lot of police criminality.
Jim

Re: On the level...

I know the Kirk used to be riddled with masons, even my own congregation had a few elders who were masons. This is no longer the case locally, and the General Assembly has ruled that freemasonry is
"Incompatible with the Christian faith."
I'm not surprised.
Have you googled some of the weirder beliefs of the 'craft'?
Jabulon, for example....
IvyOwl

I too am, in spite of their trying to put a pure and worthy spin on their activities, troubled by them. I first became aware of them many years ago when a collegue proudly boasted that her father had become a chief something or other (not well up on police hierarchy, but it was a fairly senior position) in spite of not being a mason. I'm now wondering it that was stictly true or just what he told her? mmmmm

That so many policeman are members is one of the reasons that I don't quite trust any of them. It being so secretive you can never be sure just who is involved and who not. My ex husbands uncle, a fairly senior copper and by the way a Catholic,* was a member and there was one room in his house that no one else was allowed to enter not even his wife. (Of course that just might  have been were he kept his porn and was using his Freemasonry as an excuse ... )

The secrecy, that their membership is across so many areas of influence, is something of deep concern. Their activities are objects of ridicule and mirth (eg that episode in 'The thin Blue Line') and maybe we laugh so as to feel a momentary power over them but I'm not at all convinced that they are as benign as they like to make out.

Me paranoid? Yes ... just a bit.

Oh and Cyberman just for the record I was once asked for a date by a bloke who thought he'd impress me the fact he was a member! I declined as I was no more impressed by that than his inherited title and Mensa membership! .....'sides Lady (IvyOwls real name) sounded too much like a brand of tights!

*Not that that in itself is necessarily relevant I just mentioned it as I was a little puzzled by compatability issues.

IvyOwl
cymrudynnion

Re: On the level...

cyberman wrote:
The Freemasons have cropped up on another thread. Interesting topic. I wondered if anyone on the forum is a mason? Is anyone supportive of them? What do people think of masonry in general?

Me, I am not a fan, to say the least. They are secretive about both their actions and their agenda. I think their practices and ethos are incompatible with my faith - which is not a bad thing in itself, of course; people are allowed to disagree with me, I s'pose - but it does make it problematic that masons hold senior positions within the CofE (possibly other churches too, I don't know).

For the record, I was once invited to join, and politely declined.
I have been invited on three occassions to join the Masons by a good friend of mine, on each occassion I declined.
My view is the majority of Masons who aspire to reach the 3rd degree are peopel who have their hearts and their money in the right place and generously give to worthy causes. It is those who decide to go through the royal arch and get up the ladder as far as possible that i have a great problem with. Stephen Knight prior to his murder wrote several books on the subject that are well worth reading. I would also suggest The hiram key by Knight and Lomas.
Jim

Re: On the level...

Cym;
Like you, I've been invited; like you, I've firmly declined. If you've read my last post on the Mormonism thread, you'll see I had an uncle who had reached the royal arch rubbish and had so-called 'Christian' degrees.
When he REALLY became Christian, the scales fell from his eyes and he quit the 'lodges'...and many so-called 'brothers' stopped talking to him.
Before he died, he told some of us about the absurd rituals, oaths, clothing - and this composite Jahbulon/Jabulon, their 'supreme archetect of the universe; a composite of YHWH, Baal and Osiris. This destroys any connection with Christianity.
cymrudynnion

Re: On the level...

Jim wrote:
Cym;
Like you, I've been invited; like you, I've firmly declined. If you've read my last post on the Mormonism thread, you'll see I had an uncle who had reached the royal arch rubbish and had so-called 'Christian' degrees.
When he REALLY became Christian, the scales fell from his eyes and he quit the 'lodges'...and many so-called 'brothers' stopped talking to him.
Before he died, he told some of us about the absurd rituals, oaths, clothing - and this composite Jahbulon/Jabulon, their 'supreme archetect of the universe; a composite of YHWH, Baal and Osiris. This destroys any connection with Christianity.
I would like to take a look around Rosslyn Chapel all the same
gone

I believe one of my grandfathers, who died before I was born, was a Mason, but gave it up when he got religion. My father was asked to join but refused as it would have conflicted with his faith. I have some feeling my husband was also sounded out about becoming one a good many years ago, but would have refused on the grounds of it being something with which he didn't agree, not for religous reasons.
Boss Cat

I thought you had to obey the law of the land to be a mason - so if a police officer did let your friend off then both of them surely should not have been masons.

I have worked in courts, recommending sentencing and have worked closely with the police.  I have never seen anything to lead me to believe that there is corruption or a hive of masonic plots inherent in the justice system.  Ineptitude (including my own on occasion) and naievety but nothing that has led me to think there are masonic plots at work.

Not that that proves anything.  I think freemasonry is strange and don't have much time for it, why don't men just make friends without all that secret society rubbish? but my dad was an enthusiastic mason for many years and he was an honest, decent and good man.
Ketty

I'm in agreement that Freemasonry is incompatible with the Christian Faith.   As such, I do not approve.  To think that people are allowed to get away with criminal behaviour because they belong to an elitist secret club of influential friends, should be an additional criminal offence with severe consequences, for both parties.
Jim

Boss Cat;
My dad was a Mason - though I never really knew him, as he died when I was four. Several of my uncles were also 'brothers'. They were decent men; I would never dispute that. However, their beliefs and practice are totally incompatible with Christianity, and they seem to mask their beliefs in a pseudo- Christian outlook.
I'd submit that freemasonry is not an organisation, but a religion, separate and distinct in its own right.
cymrudynnion

Boss Cat wrote:
I thought you had to obey the law of the land to be a mason - so if a police officer did let your friend off then both of them surely should not have been masons.

I have worked in courts, recommending sentencing and have worked closely with the police.  I have never seen anything to lead me to believe that there is corruption or a hive of masonic plots inherent in the justice system.  Ineptitude (including my own on occasion) and naievety but nothing that has led me to think there are masonic plots at work.

Not that that proves anything.  I think freemasonry is strange and don't have much time for it, why don't men just make friends without all that secret society rubbish? but my dad was an enthusiastic mason for many years and he was an honest, decent and good man.
Up to and including the 3rd degree I would agree with you. Depending on ones' point of view and scepicism, after the 3rd degree or passing through the Royal arch things change. Do you have to stay within the law? Yes you should but there is evidence that the law can and is manipulated by the Masonic Order.

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