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Powwow

Poor use of the Atheists Time

I came across an old issue of the economist yesterday. I don't know how I could have put it away without reading it. Anyway the article on the persecution of the atheists in the Islamic world left me believing that the atheist's of the west would make better use of their atheist time, rallying for the end of persecution under Islamic states rather then buying advertising on the sides of buses in the hopes of irking the Christians here in the comfy west.
http://www.economist.com/news/int...n-tolerance-still-rare-no-god-not
Shaker

It's quite possible to do both. We can multitask.
Powwow

I wonder why the atheists of the west are so reluctant to go up against the Islamic teachers. Perhaps they fear death after all. We Christians are pretty safe targets for them. lol
Powwow

Does the atheist have priorities? Is annoying a Christian in the west just as important to the atheist as trying to free a sister or brother atheist from the prisons across the Islamic world? Apparently so, and that's shameful.
I would think that the resources the atheists waste on trying to irk Christians, are resources taken from the fight for their equality in the Islamic world.
I must say that this so called multi tasking is poorly done by the Canadian atheists.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
I wonder why the atheists of the west are so reluctant to go up against the Islamic teachers.

Are they?
Powwow

If I were to stroll by the embassies of the Islamic nations in Ottawa today, would I find any atheist orgs. protesting on behalf of their fellow atheists in prison? No, there are no protests there. However, any time that the Prime Minister of Israel dares to visit my country, he is followed every step of the way by the supporters of the Islamic nations and who is there supporting these Muslim protesters? The atheist organizations are always there supporting the protesters who support the behaviour of the Islamic states. The atheist will always go up against Israel where the atheist enjoys freedom. Israel is an easy and safe target for them after all. They will never confront a bunch of Hamas supporters. Yes, they will protest on behalf of Gaza where the atheist is tossed into prison and can be executed.
I don't know about your Labour Party but the socialist party here in Canada has been courting radical Islamic orgs. here for some years. Another reason for us never to allow the socialists to gain power in our national capital.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
If I were to stroll by the embassies of the Islamic nations in Ottawa today, would I find any atheist orgs. protesting on behalf of their fellow atheists in prison? No, there are no protests there. However, any time that the Prime Minister of Israel dares to visit my country, he is followed every step of the way by the supporters of the Islamic nations and who is there supporting these Muslim protesters? The atheist organizations are always there supporting the protesters who support the behaviour of the Islamic states. The atheist will always go up against Israel where the atheist enjoys freedom. Israel is an easy and safe target for them after all. They will never confront a bunch of Hamas supporters. Yes, they will protest on behalf of Gaza where the atheist is tossed into prison and can be executed.
I don't know about your Labour Party but the socialist party here in Canada has been courting radical Islamic orgs. here for some years. Another reason for us never to allow the socialists to gain power in our national capital.


Whilst certainly some atheists may express those views - I can tell you for a certainty that not all do - because I for one don't.

I remember many years ago having quite an argument with a friend of mine (both atheists, both gay, and both left of centre) about Israel. He was very much a supporter of the Palestinians and against Israel whatever was said. Until I commented that as a gay man if I were to have to choose either of those options I would much rather prefer to live in Israel than in a Palestinian state. Battle commenced.  

As for confronting Islamists I have done my fair share in my time - again on the gay issue, mainly within the Labout Party in the UK - so get your facts straight (pardon the weak pun) before you go posting bollocks like this:

Quote:
The atheist will always go up against Israel where the atheist enjoys freedom
Powwow

All the resources the atheists used up trying to remove the Jesus statue could have been better spent helping to free fellow atheists in prison for their non belief. Could have been better spent fighting for equality in the Islamic nations on behalf of their fellow atheists.
Oh and the atheists did lose the battle to get rid of the statue. What a waste of time and money!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/25...s-focus-of-legal-battle.html?_r=0
Powwow

So the gay atheist will confront Islam over the gay thingy not the atheist thingy.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
So the gay atheist will confront Islam over the gay thingy not the atheist thingy.


This gay atheist confronts them over their attitude to gays which in turn feeds into other areas - such as my sympathies for Israel. (thats not to say that I haven't got any for the Palestinians because I have - but that's a whole other thread I fear).

I thought I had made plain my preference for Israel as an existing state (however flawed) - clearly you have problems with comprehension, or the red mist has just descended again so you are unable to speak sensibly about this.

You are very good at making sweeping generalised statements and then not backing them up.

To make it clear this atheist has argued with various Muslims/Islamists about issues such as Israel and the gay thingy. You think that all atheists bow down to Islamists. I don't. Therefore your posts are wrong.
Powwow

So to the gay atheists, their gayness comes before their atheism. That's fine, at least they have their priorities figured out.
trentvoyager

I have no idea of what you are trying to say or imply or whatever. I don't particularly categorise in a hierarchical fashion.

If I feel strongly about something at a particular point I'll do something about it - if I don't I won't.

As has been noted before - there is such a thing as multi-tasking.
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
As has been noted before - there is such a thing as multi-tasking.

I think trying to explain the concept of multitasking to someone who can't do unitasking (i.e. providing substantive evidence for bald assertions) is being on a hiding to nothing, trent.
Powwow

So I can count on the great multitasking atheists to be protesting the next visit to my nation by leaders from the Islamic nations. I won't hold my breath. lol
No, they will be pouring their resources into having some religious symbol banned from a public park. Or perhaps taking the word God out of some oath. Easier targets don'tcha know.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
I won't hold my breath.

Oh, go on. Please.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
So I can count on the great multitasking atheists to be protesting the next visit to my nation by leaders from the Islamic nations. I won't hold my breath. lol
No, they will be pouring their resources into having some religious symbol banned from a public park. Or perhaps taking the word God out of some oath. Easier targets don'tcha know.


Well as all my protesting is now of a local nature - I don't think it likely that I will be protesting to leaders of Islamic nations. I've got quite enough to do without chasing down to London to spot yon pillock Cameron talking to other pillocks from other nations.

FTR - I've never protested about religious symbols or tried to take the word God out of an oath.

Does this mean I'm not really an atheist - or does it mean you are talking bullshit - again ?
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
Does this mean I'm not really an atheist - or does it mean you are talking bullshit - again ?

Ooooh, ooooh, oooh, me, me sir, me, me.
Powwow

If one needs examples of generalizing, just click onto an atheist web site. lol
Powwow

Here's a fact. Bullshit and a dead atheist would both be beneficial in my flower beds. A dead Christian not so much. Their soul just wouldn't be in it.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Here's a fact. Bullshit and a dead atheist would both be beneficial in my flower beds. A dead Christian not so much. Their soul just wouldn't be in it.


Addressing the point again I see

You are the one that started this rant thinking you could denigrate and stereotype atheists. One or two of us rebut your argument totally, and all you can do is resort to nasty little insults.
Powwow

An atheist acts like I was the first to mention bullshit on this thread. Oh, how cute. Generalizing, see atheist web sites.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
An atheist acts like I was the first to mention bullshit on this thread. Oh, how cute. Generalizing, see atheist web sites.


Oh yes I did. But there is a difference.

I demonstrated you were talking bullshit by giving examples where an atheist didn't support islamists and actually argued against them.

You demonstrated nothing in support of your sweeping generalisations (no doubt based on some dubious right wing tirade you read on an obscure corner of the internet) so if anyone is going to be pushing up daisies it will be you with the copious amounts of manure you produce.
Shaker

Powwow

Oh my yes, the New York Times and the Economist are full of right wing tirades. lol And not only that, but one has to haunt obscure corners of the internet to find them, thinks the ignorant atheist. Wow lots of gay atheist bullshit today. LOL  No, anybody can pick up the New York Times and the Economist and do so on most streets of downtown London, Toronto and London. Obscure indeed!
trentvoyager

Quote:
Oh my yes, the New York Times and the Economist are full of right wing tirades


I'm glad you recognise that.

Have you done with your unsubstantiated assertions yet.....still waiting for the proof that all atheists support suicide.

Insulting straight  so called Christian.
Powwow

A certain atheist is misleading. He claims I wrote "all atheists" when in fact I did not write that. As far as atheists support for suicide, perhaps Side Show should ask the Lead Act if he is in favour of suicide or against it.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
A certain atheist is misleading. He claims I wrote "all atheists" when in fact I did not write that. As far as atheists support for suicide, perhaps Side Show should ask the Lead Act if he is in favour of suicide or against it.

What you wrote was:
Quote:
not to the godless atheist. They are big promoters of suicide


The phrase the godless atheist is a collective term, a generalisation that refers to all atheists in general, so actually you did write that.

Unless you're now going to try to worm your way out of this one by claiming that you wrote something that you didn't understand. Not that I for one would be in any way surprised since your posts do have that word-salad look of a lot of random words thrown together for absolutely no reason and with no thought behind them.
Powwow

I wonder how much money the bigoted hate org., Freedom From Religion Foundation, has wasted trying to remove religious symbols across America. I would love to compare those expenses and the amount of money it spends fighting for the freedom of their fellow atheists across the Islamic world.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
A certain atheist is misleading. He claims I wrote "all atheists" when in fact I did not write that. As far as atheists support for suicide, perhaps Side Show should ask the Lead Act if he is in favour of suicide or against it.


WEll I'm not sure who is the side show and who is the lead act - but having seen many side shows better than the lead act in the past I don't suppose it really matters - its just your way of childishly insulting one, or possibly both of us.

Why should I ask him that question, you ask if you want an answer.  Anyway you cannot be in favour or against suicide. Suicide just is.

You can however ask or you in favour of people commiting suicide and should people be allowed to commit suicide - which is an area open to lots of debate.

Generally, suicide, as in somebody has got so low and clinically depressed that they take their own life should not happen....our society should help in whatever ways it can to prevent that - we will not always succeed even if we had all the money, skills etc in the world to invest in it - because there are always those that show no outward detectable signs - ask many parents who have lost teenagers - very difficult to identify.

The other more thorny issue is that of what is now termed "assisted suicide" in some quarters. This is an issue I have struggled with - I do not deep down feel that this is right....BUT, and it is a very big but, I am not in that position at the moment, so am I the right person to make a judgement on that issue - I'm relatively healthy and see the advantages of living.

If I was suffering from some terrible terminal disease like MND I might well take a different view. So whilst I feel uncomfortable about this type of suicide - I have got to recognise the rights of other people to take very difficult decisions and not inflict my, what seem to be very inbuilt reservations about this matter, on them.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
I wonder how much money the bigoted hate org., Freedom From Religion Foundation, has wasted trying to remove religious symbols across America. I would love to compare those expenses and the amount of money it spends fighting for the freedom of their fellow atheists across the Islamic world.


You've already told us this - or some such similar pointless drivel.

Rebutted - I have not and will not spend my time trying to get rid of religious symbols - s not all godless atheists do that.

Have you understood yet.

Powwow

Some atheists think it's all about them. LOL
Powwow

Oh my, the doctors of death aren't getting along!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health...ide-expert-turns-on-Dr-Death.html
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Some atheists think it's all about them. LOL



What ??
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Oh my, the doctors of death aren't getting along!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health...ide-expert-turns-on-Dr-Death.html


Oh my - professionals disagreeing - whatever next  ?
Powwow

Atheists waste so much time being angry and hateful.
http://www.joshgelatt.com/2009/01/anger-of-atheism.html
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
pow wow wrote:
Oh my, the doctors of death aren't getting along!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health...ide-expert-turns-on-Dr-Death.html


Oh my - professionals disagreeing - whatever next  ?

Ah, you never see that sort of thing with religious bods.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Atheists waste so much time being angry and hateful.
http://www.joshgelatt.com/2009/01/anger-of-atheism.html


Oh come on - atheists are amateurs compared to some religionists - go and look at Phelps clan again and try and post something meaningful next time.
Powwow

Did you know atheist doctors are much more eager to hasten people to their death?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society...-religious-beliefs-terminally-ill
Powwow

An atheist thinks Phelps is a Christian man. Perhaps if silly atheist read the gospels, he would know Phelps is far from a Christian man.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
Did you know atheist doctors are much more eager to hasten people to their death?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society...-religious-beliefs-terminally-ill

Perhaps based on a greater degree of compassion for those in unendurable and irremediable suffering. Indeed the article, in saying that non-religious doctors discuss end-of-life issues with their patients more than religious ones, implies as much:

Quote:
... doctors with strong religious convictions are less likely even to discuss such decisions with the patient ... the most religious doctors were significantly less likely than other doctors to have discussed options at the end of life with their patient.


This comes from the abstract of the study itself:

Quote:
... doctors who described themselves as non-religious were more likely than others to report having given continuous deep sedation until death, having taken decisions they expected or partly intended to end life, and to have discussed these decisions with patients judged to have the capacity to participate in discussions.


So believing doctors were significantly less likely to discuss what the patient wanted, with the patient, than non-religious ones. Conversely, non-religious doctors are more likely to talk to their dying patients about what they - the patients - want. Interesting. While this doesn't surprise me in the slightest, it makes the suggested re-title by the first contributor to the comments all the more pertinent - and heartbreaking:

Quote:
Suggested re-title: Religious doctors twice as likely to prolong pain and suffering for terminally ill patients.


Echoed again shortly afterwards:

Quote:
I think this should be worded as non religious drs are twice as likely to explain all options that are open to a terminally ill person.


Quote:
The most interesting and significant part of this article to me is that the 'religious' doctors are those least likely to take their patients' wishes into account.


Well well well.
Powwow

Most religious doctors believe every moment of life is worth fighting for. They take their oath as doctors very seriously. Not so with those atheist doctors it appears.
Powwow

What a waste, millions of dollars the atheists are wasting trying to get God removed from the oath of allegiance and the presidential oath of office. And their fellow atheists are locked up in the prisons across the Islamic world. Shame.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
Most religious doctors believe every moment of life is worth fighting for.

No matter how much hideous suffering may be involved, and without discussing the options with the patient himself - in practical terms, inflicting their own religious stance on somebody else who may well not share it. (Quelle surprise). Yes, we know, we got that from the article.
Powwow

"And I will use regimens for the benefit of the ill in accordance with my ability and my judgement, but from what is to their harm or injustice I will keep from them.
And I WILL NOT GIVE A DRUG THAT IS DEADLY TO ANYONE IF ASKED FOR IT."
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
An atheist thinks Phelps is a Christian man. Perhaps if silly atheist read the gospels, he would know Phelps is far from a Christian man.


I actually said he was a religionist - but no matter. There are plenty of other Christians who spout hatred without using their "god given" brains.

My point, although I do realise that your whole reason in posting this way is to make everyone else go , is that some atheists may well hate, not all do. And conversely whilst some Christians may hate not all do. Of course, I realise this is a little nuanced for you - so I'll make it easier.

Some folks waste their time hating whether they are religious or not.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
"And I will use regimens for the benefit of the ill in accordance with my ability and my judgement, but from what is to their harm or injustice I will keep from them.

Keeping people alive against their will in extreme pain presumably not being an injustice in the theistic worldview.
Quote:
And I WILL NOT GIVE A DRUG THAT IS DEADLY TO ANYONE IF ASKED FOR IT."


Quote:
The Oath has been modified multiple times, in several different countries. One of the most significant revisions is the Declaration of Geneva, first drafted in 1948 by the World Medical Association; it has since been revised several times. While there is currently no legal obligation for medical students to swear an oath upon graduating, 98% of American medical students swear some form of oath, while only 50% of British medical students do.

However, the vast majority of oaths or declarations sworn have been heavily modified and modernized. In a 1989 survey of 126 US medical schools, only three reported usage of the original oath, while thirty-three used the Declaration of Geneva, sixty-seven used a modified Hippocratic oath, four used the Oath of Maimonides, one used a covenant, eight used another oath, one used an unknown oath, and two did not use any kind of oath. Seven medical schools did not reply to the survey. In France, it is common for new medical graduates to sign a written oath.


The implication seems to be, from what we've learned thus far, is that if you want to discuss your end-of-life options with your doctor, want to be autonomous and want to have your wishes regarding a peaceful and painless death respected, find a British atheist doctor.
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
pow wow wrote:
An atheist thinks Phelps is a Christian man. Perhaps if silly atheist read the gospels, he would know Phelps is far from a Christian man.


I actually said he was a religionist


Oh look:

Quote:
atheists are amateurs compared to some religionists - go and look at Phelps clan


So you did.
Powwow

The worst enemy of the atheists is their own souls. And such comfort they bring to fellow man.

"I am a puny part of the great whole.
Yes; but all animals condemned to live,
All sentient things, born by the same stern law,
Suffer like me, and also like me also die.
The vultures fastens on his timid prey,
And stabs with bloody beak the quivering limbs:
All's well, it seems, for it. But in a while
An eagle tears the vulture to shreds;
The eagle is transfixed by shaft of man;
The man, prone in the dust of battlefield,
Mingling his blood with dying fellow-men,
Becomes in turn the food of ravenous birds.

Thus the whole world in every member groans:
All born for torment and for mutual death.
And o'er this ghastly chaos you would say
The ills of each make up the good of all!
What blessedness! And as, with quaking voice,
Mortal and pitiful, ye cry, "All's well,"
Refutes a hundred times your mind's conceit.

What is the verdict of the vastest mind?
Silence: the book of fate is closed to us.
Man is a stranger to his own research;
He knows not whence he comes, nor whither goes.
Tormented atoms in a bed of mud,
Devoured by death, a mockery of fate."   Voltaire

The joy of atheism. Happy, happy happy!
Powwow

Toxic atheism not only drives people apart it is also a waste of their time.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/21/toxic_atheism_drives_people_apart/
Shaker

In the opinion of well known faitheist/accomodationist Stedman and his ilk, you mean.

I'm glad of it: there are certainly toxic people I definitely want to be driven apart from. Stedman being at least one of them.

'Why faitheist Chris Stedman is so obnoxious'.

Stedman taken down again.

And again.

And again.

And again.

Good choice there powsers. Chris Stedman - the ginger stepchild of secularism. No wonder you approve of him
cyberman

Shaker wrote:
Chris Stedman - the ginger stepchild of secularism.


I'm sure ths shouldn't have made me laugh, but it did!
Powwow

Interesting, are atheists copying Christians? Seem to be, fighting among themselves. lol  Strange, being that they claim intellectual superiority and enlightenment. But no, they are fighting about who doesn't believe in God more, and who's real or not and they are discriminating and categorizing each other. For example, the arrogant Dick and Sam defender calling a fellow atheist a "ginger step child" because he dares not to hold a hate filled position about the religious. Such arrogance is worth a toilet bowl of my puke.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
Interesting, are atheists copying Christians? Seem to be, fighting among themselves. lol  Strange, being that they claim intellectual superiority and enlightenment. But no, they are fighting about who doesn't believe in God more, and who's real or not and they are discriminating and categorizing each other. For example, the arrogant Dick and Sam defender calling a fellow atheist a "ginger step child" because he dares not to hold a hate filled position about the religious. Such arrogance is worth a toilet bowl of my puke.


Has anyone got one of those translator gadgets from star trek......cos ireally haven't got a clue what pw is on about here.
Shaker

trentvoyager wrote:
Has anyone got one of those translator gadgets from star trek......cos ireally haven't got a clue what pw is on about here.

That goes for everyone else.

Powsers included, I should think.
Powwow

There is a civil war going on among atheists. It's over their intolerance. Some see it and want to deal with it and the others refuse to look themselves in the mirror.
trentvoyager

pow wow wrote:
There is a civil war going on among atheists. It's over their intolerance. Some see it and want to deal with it and the others refuse to look themselves in the mirror.


Is there?

If there is it's passed me by. No muskets being fired nor swords crossed, it all seems very peaceful to me.

Are you sure you mean civil war. You dont perhaps mean instead that a  few folks are arguing.

Again shock, horror, human beings arguing. Whatever next?
cyberman

trentvoyager wrote:
pow wow wrote:
There is a civil war going on among atheists. It's over their intolerance. Some see it and want to deal with it and the others refuse to look themselves in the mirror.


Is there?

If there is it's passed me by. No muskets being fired nor swords crossed, it all seems very peaceful to me.

Are you sure you mean civil war. You dont perhaps mean instead that a  few folks are arguing.

Again shock, horror, human beings arguing. Whatever next?


Well, speaking for the Christian community, I can assure you that we never ever argue amongst each other about anything, not ever
Powwow

The Christian and the atheist both, when facing death, will make an act of faith.
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
The Christian and the atheist both, when facing death, will make an act of faith.

trentvoyager

Random generator at work !
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
Well, speaking for the Christian community, I can assure you that we never ever argue amongst each other about anything, not ever

I'm afraid powsers wouldn't agree with you there - after all, earlier he wrote:
Quote:
are atheists copying Christians? Seem to be, fighting among themselves

Perhaps it was a slip of the keyboard. Or something  
Powwow

I just want to say, using those famous words of that bloated, pill popping Elvis Presley,
"Thank you, thank you very much."  LOL

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