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Shaker

Pope behaving in very un-Catholic manner yet again

Pope Francis's pronouncements do have to be very carefully scrutinised and scanned word by word and line by line to see what they actually say rather than the way they're spun by headline and byline writers - thank you, Nick Cohen - but even so: Church too focused on gays and abortion, says Pope:

Quote:
Pope Francis has said the Catholic Church is too focused on preaching about abortion, gay people and contraception and needs to become more merciful.

He warned that the Church's moral structure could "fall like a house of cards" unless it changed.

The Pope used the first major interview of his papacy to explain comments he made in July about homosexuality.

He told a Jesuit magazine the Church must show balance and "heal wounds".

The pontiff used the 12,000-word interview with La Civilta Cattolicato to set out his priorities as Pope, acknowledge his own shortcomings and open up about his cultural interests.


There's always a but, however:

Quote:
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible,'' he said.

"The teaching of the Church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the Church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.''
cyberman

There's nothing unCatholic about any of that.
Leonard James

He sounds a vast improvement on his predecessors.
Shaker

Leonard James wrote:
He sounds a vast improvement on his predecessors.

True. Not exactly a colossal achievement, but true.
Powwow

I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say. He leads his flock as he sees fit. I aint one of his flock
Shaker

pow wow wrote:
I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say.

I was just about to say neither does anybody else who isn't Catholic, save for the fact that given the amount of Catholics who have abortions and/or use contraception, seemingly neither do a huge number of Catholics either  
Leonard James

pow wow wrote:
I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say. He leads his flock as he sees fit. I aint one of his flock

Anybody that can modify (even slightly) the thinking of minds set in stone by religious dogma is doing a service to humanity.
gone

I think Frankie is shaping up to be the best Pope since John 23.
cyberman

Floo wrote:
I think Frankie is shaping up to be the best Pope since John 23.


Well that's nice.
I hear he speaks very highly of you, too.
gone

cyberman wrote:
Floo wrote:
I think Frankie is shaping up to be the best Pope since John 23.


Well that's nice.
I hear he speaks very highly of you, too.


Oh I am so PLEASED!
cyberman

Leonard James wrote:
pow wow wrote:
I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say. He leads his flock as he sees fit. I aint one of his flock

Anybody that can modify (even slightly) the thinking of minds set in stone by religious dogma is doing a service to humanity.


I agree. And I share your optimism that he might change the 'minds set in stone' of some of those who previously thought that all Catholics were fascist arseholes.
Leonard James

cyberman wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
pow wow wrote:
I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say. He leads his flock as he sees fit. I aint one of his flock

Anybody that can modify (even slightly) the thinking of minds set in stone by religious dogma is doing a service to humanity.


I agree. And I share your optimism that he might change the 'minds set in stone' of some of those who previously thought that all Catholics were fascist arseholes.


I find it hard to believe that any intelligent person would make such a blanket judgement. Sounds like a dolt to me.
cyberman

Leonard James wrote:
cyberman wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
pow wow wrote:
I don't care what the Roman Catholic Pope has to say. He leads his flock as he sees fit. I aint one of his flock

Anybody that can modify (even slightly) the thinking of minds set in stone by religious dogma is doing a service to humanity.


I agree. And I share your optimism that he might change the 'minds set in stone' of some of those who previously thought that all Catholics were fascist arseholes.


I find it hard to believe that any intelligent person would make such a blanket judgement. Sounds like a dolt to me.


Many people believe it. And do you remember the clown on here once, who said that he wished more Cathlolics would abort their babies, such was his hatred of us.

Hopefully, as you say, Pope Francis might go some way towards modify the thinking of such dolts.
Leonard James

cyberman wrote:


Hopefully, as you say, Pope Francis might go some way towards modify the thinking of such dolts.


I'm sure education will solve the problem eventually, though it will take a few generations.
JamesJah

Do any of you recognise the religion here that Jesus id giving people some good advice on?

Revelation 18:4-7
I heard another voice out of heaven say:

Get out of her, my people,
if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
Do any of you recognise the religion here that Jesus id giving people some good advice on?

Revelation 18:4-7
I heard another voice out of heaven say:

Get out of her, my people,
if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’


There is no organisation which hasn't sinned at some point.
JamesJah

Lexilogio wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Do any of you recognise the religion here that Jesus id giving people some good advice on?

Revelation 18:4-7
I heard another voice out of heaven say:

Get out of her, my people,
if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’


There is no organisation which hasn't sinned at some point.


Well Jesus chooses one to whiten and educate in the ways of his father, and many are now streaming there to lean about his ways and walk in his path.

Daniel 12:10
Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.
gone

JamesJah

Floo wrote:


2 Peter 3:3, 4
You know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule,
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Floo wrote:


2 Peter 3:3, 4
You know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule,


Amen
gone

 
JamesJah

Floo wrote:
 


Matthew 22:11-14
When the king came in to inspect the guests he caught sight there of a man not clothed with a marriage garment. So he said to him, ‘Fellow, how did you get in here not having on a marriage garment?’ He was rendered speechless. Then the king said to his servants,

Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.’

 “For there are many invited, but few chosen.
gone

Keep the funnies coming JJ.
Jim

Well, why are we even contemplating the faithless slave to mistranslation in Brooklyn central?
Have they announced another date for the parousia yet...the eleventh, by my reconing?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Well, why are we even contemplating the faithless slave to mistranslation in Brooklyn central?
Have they announced another date for the parousia yet...the eleventh, by my reconing?


Are you one that not only missed it, but still thinks it does not exist?

You should have spotted this prophecy by now, how many are left after this one>>>\/


Revelation 16:8, 9
The fourth one poured out his bowl upon the sun; and to [the sun] it was granted to scorch the men with fire.

 And the men were scorched with great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues,

and they did not repent so as to give glory to him.


When have you had in history a heat wave for twenty years?


What was next?

do you know what the wild beast represents?
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Well, why are we even contemplating the faithless slave to mistranslation in Brooklyn central?
Have they announced another date for the parousia yet...the eleventh, by my reconing?


Are you one that not only missed it, but still thinks it does not exist?

You should have spotted this prophecy by now, how many are left after this one>>>\/


Revelation 16:8, 9
The fourth one poured out his bowl upon the sun; and to [the sun] it was granted to scorch the men with fire.

 And the men were scorched with great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues,

and they did not repent so as to give glory to him.


When have you had in history a heat wave for twenty years?


What was next?

do you know what the wild beast represents?


People complain all the time that scripture is not without interpretation. How can that be misinterpreted? I am afraid that Jim is one of those who create interpretations by using man's scholarly knowledge and by dissecting the scriptures, taking the relevant bits out and then joining it all back together. The scriptures are meant for the simplest of souls to understand and this is perfectly understandable.
Jim

Oh, I'm perfectly content with the parousia, and certain of my salvation through Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.
The trouble is, certain anti-Christian sects keep slapping dates on it, calculated by pyramidology, calculations on the back of fag packets, and theological knot tying exercises worthy of Houdini.
Putting dates, moreover, which were WRONG - and against scripture; even the New World Mistranslation thereof.
We are specifically told NEVER to do this...but the faithless slaves in the gulag in Brooklyn haven't worked that out, yet.
A Christian friend of mine, thankfully a convert from the JW religion, called this the "elastic Jesus syndrome".
The WTBTS appear to have their Jesus on a sort of bungee rope, popping up at times they tell him to appear.
Thankfully, this is not Chrirst Jesus, who is God Incarnate.
JamesJah

Do those who have their God incarnate in Jesus know, who did this and when? \/

Revelation 12:7-10
war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God

and the authority of his Christ,
Jim

Those who trust Christ Jesus, God Incarnate, James, know that the false prophet of the Watchtower which has led so many from the truth is about as Christian as Conan the Barbarian...and just as authentic in its publications.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Those who trust Christ Jesus, God Incarnate, James, know that the false prophet of the Watchtower which has led so many from the truth is about as Christian as Conan the Barbarian...and just as authentic in its publications.


Where does your religion come from?

Should Christians be a religion or a way of life?
Jim

I'm not religious, James - I'm a Christian.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
I'm not religious, James - I'm a Christian.


A Christian is a follow of Christ. and a doer of the word and not a hearer only, he is also obedient to the good news by walking in the way of the good news, when he prays he speaks in the name of the Father through his mediator the risen Christ.

What is a mediator?

Do you believe the Father is greater than Jesus?
Jim

No.
A Christian, James, is a follower of Christ*.
Pure and simple.


*God Incarnate. Part of the triune God.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
No.
A Christian, James, is a follower of Christ*.
Pure and simple.


*God Incarnate. Part of the triune God.


The triune God was invented by the wed Christians when they invented a religion, not the wheat ones the wheat were bullied into having to accept it like it or not.
Jim

I repeat, James, for comprehension.
A Christian is a follower of Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.
A JW is a member of a religion founded by a proven false prophet and pyramidiot.
Simples.


Next?
Derek

Jim wrote:
I repeat, James, for comprehension.
A Christian is a follower of Christ Jesus, God Incarnate.
A JW is a member of a religion founded by a proven false prophet and pyramidiot.
Simples.


Next?


A Christian is a lover of all men not a condemer of their choices. Your words are hostile to the ears of the Jehovah Witnesses yet you say them anyway. Would Christ Jesus do that? Who gives you the right to offend and discredit people who are essentially good people who do what they think is right in worshipping their God. A Christian strives to follow Christ and his word. Where does he ever mention the Triune or God incarnate. When he does I will follow that teaching. Thus far the only people who have said it is the old men who decided that they would define Christianity some 300 years after his death. Anyone who believes in the Triune or God incarnate is as Christian as David Koresh. It is false doctrine and should be treated as such.
gone

If something is hostile to the nasty JW sect that is all to the good, I am all for it!
Ketty

Ralph2 wrote:
Would Christ Jesus do that?


Of course!  He put people right all the time, especially the religious.
Jim

Yep.
And, to some extent, the JWs are pharasical in their attitude.
Oh....and classed by most authorities, Christian AND secular, as "pseudo-Christian", "quasi-Christian" or "The JW religion".
JamesJah

Jehovah's Witnesses Teach only scripture with none of the made up religious nonsense made up in the past by the weed Christians, that is one of the main reasons that they are hated because they search out the truth of the scriptures and endeavour to work in harmony with what they learn as they move forward into the light.

They are now a large enough group to be considered by most civilised countries.

France still has its bios and the Muslims still go into jihadi mode, the Russians who are supposed to be a peoples country also still have difficulty with the freedom of expression that we expect of any civilised country.
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Teach only scripture with none of the made up religious nonsense made up .


Really? Still waiting for any Biblical quote that bans blood transfusions.  
JamesJah

Lexilogio wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Teach only scripture with none of the made up religious nonsense made up .


Really? Still waiting for any Biblical quote that bans blood transfusions.  


I see you still do not know what abstain means?
Derek

Floo wrote:
If something is hostile to the nasty JW sect that is all to the good, I am all for it!


And that is why you will never be a Christian. We actually care about hurting other people's feeling. Have you any idea how nasty that comment is. Do you realise that most people step back from people with that kind of attitude.
Derek

Jim wrote:
Yep.
And, to some extent, the JWs are pharasical in their attitude.
Oh....and classed by most authorities, Christian AND secular, as "pseudo-Christian", "quasi-Christian" or "The JW religion".


So, you stand with a hand full of stones in your hands and bow to the authorities of man. I bet you are a good shot.
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Teach only scripture with none of the made up religious nonsense made up in the past by the weed Christians, that is one of the main reasons that they are hated because they search out the truth of the scriptures and endeavour to work in harmony with what they learn as they move forward into the light.

They are now a large enough group to be considered by most civilised countries.

France still has its bios and the Muslims still go into jihadi mode, the Russians who are supposed to be a peoples country also still have difficulty with the freedom of expression that we expect of any civilised country.


Let me assure you James, I do not hate you. On the contrary. You are a child of God. It is not a religion for me but if it floats you boat then have a good time with it. I do not see many JWs in our courts or wearing hoodies so you all must be doing something right. It would be great to approach the gates of heaven to find a sign saying "Jehovah Witnesses Only" No one here can judge you. They are all sinners.
Derek

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Would Christ Jesus do that?


Of course!  He put people right all the time, especially the religious.


Jesus Christ never used condescension or contention when setting people straight. He always used kindness and long suffering.
Ketty

Ralph2 wrote:
He always used kindness and long suffering.


Is that the Mormon spin?  You need to read a proper Bible!  
Jim

James:
The JW religion was founded by a false prophet and pyramidiot....
Christianity's foundation rest on Christ, God Incarnate.

'Nuff said.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
James:
The JW religion was founded by a false prophet and pyramidiot....
Christianity's foundation rest on Christ, God Incarnate.

'Nuff said.


What religion has not been corrupted by false teachings, stolen from the Babylonians?

Take  a read of Hislop two  Babylon's's.
Jim

Who mentioned corrupted?
The JW religion was founded on a proven occultist and pyramidiot's miscalculations ( Let's be charitable.)
When you build on rotten foundations, there is little doubt that what is built is, of necessity, corrupt.
Christ is the head of His body, the Church.
(As per Colossians).
Lexilogio

JamesJah wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Teach only scripture with none of the made up religious nonsense made up .


Really? Still waiting for any Biblical quote that bans blood transfusions.  


I see you still do not know what abstain means?


On the contrary. I understand abstain very well. You don't seem to understand what the word, "Transfusion" means.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Who mentioned corrupted?
The JW religion was founded on a proven occultist and pyramidiot's miscalculations ( Let's be charitable.)
When you build on rotten foundations, there is little doubt that what is built is, of necessity, corrupt.
Christ is the head of His body, the Church.
(As per Colossians).


JW do not follow the teaching of Russell they follow the teachings of the scriptures.

Russell did upset quite a few when he exposed the false rendering of scripture but that was because the weed Christians had miss translated it, so they could put fear into the masses who would be ignorant of what the bible taught.

Do you still have it hot in hell? you do still have your demy god do you not?

Those who wanted to keep their lies alive would do the same as the Pharisees did to Jesus started spreading untrue and irrelevant information saying he was a man who did not know who his father was, and such like.
Jim

Er.....
Is this Russell the pyramidiot - your religion's founder - you're on about?
The one who either
A) couldn't add up
OR B) lied about his calculations?
Some faithful slave!

And what demi-god?
There is only one God.
He is the one who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Er.....
Is this Russell the pyramidiot - your religion's founder - you're on about?
The one who either
A) couldn't add up
OR B) lied about his calculations?
Some faithful slave!

And what demi-god?
There is only one God.
He is the one who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


Russell started a group studying the bible which is the only way to get at the real truth, his epochs or eras are not relevant nor is the way he went about finding them, by using the die mentions of a pyramid, as a memory aid it did work every one remembered it did they not, they did not twig though that it was in feet and inches.

but the truth of the Almighties word is relevant today as most of the end time prophecies are now in the past and Jesus is preparing a people for doing his Fathers will now and into the future,

Do you know what Jesus Fathers will is for our day, right now?

{{Answer can be found only in scripture}}
Jim

Which scripture, James?
The scripture gathered together under the Spirit's guidance by the (Trinitarian) church, or the "second bible in stone" - Khufu's pyramid - as described in the laugh-a-minute- Watchtower?
Derek

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
He always used kindness and long suffering.


Is that the Mormon spin?  You need to read a proper Bible!  


Why would it belong to any man made religious establishment. The bible belongs to no faith it belongs to each and everyone of us. Why do you need the clergy to tell you what can be readily read by yourself. I do not speak on behalf of the Mormons, or any other denomination. I speak from my knowledge of the scriptures and the only time Jesus demonstrated righteous indignation was in the temple. He taught us to use kindness and long suffering, as interpreted by Ralph for Ralph. The King James version of the bible contains the authorised translation of the gospels. It suits me fine.
Derek

[quote="Jim:97062"]Who mentioned corrupted?
The JW religion was founded on a proven occultist and pyramidiot's miscalculations ( Let's be charitable.)
When you build on rotten foundations, there is little doubt that what is built is, of necessity, corrupt.

Absolute rubbish. People change. Things progress and policies adapt. What a vacuous statement to make.
JamesJah

The early bible students moved forward into the light and became separated from the weed Christians to become JW's who are now still realy diligent students of the bible while the weed Christians have staid stuck in the mud of tradition based on Babylon's teachings, who has become today Babylon the Great the mother of all false religion.

What have the wheat Christian done they have obeyed this scripture.>>>\/


Revelation 18:4, 5
I heard another voice out of heaven say:

Get out of her, my people,

if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven.
Jim

So you admit Russell was a false prophet&, then, James?


(much as certain other so-called 'prophets with am obsession with their false conception of Egypt...(
Ketty

Ralph2 wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
He always used kindness and long suffering.


Is that the Mormon spin?  You need to read a proper Bible!  


[I've cut out the blah, blah] the only time Jesus demonstrated righteous indignation was in the temple.[and more blah, blah]


Good, I'm glad you've read enough to realise your original statement was incorrect.  

Christ Jesus* did indeed get very angry with the religious and the false teachers and preachers.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Derek

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
He always used kindness and long suffering.


Is that the Mormon spin?  You need to read a proper Bible!  


[I've cut out the blah, blah] the only time Jesus demonstrated righteous indignation was in the temple.[and more blah, blah]


Good, I'm glad you've read enough to realise your original statement was incorrect.  

Christ Jesus* did indeed get very angry with the religious and the false teachers and preachers.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


As far as I am aware he demonstrated "righteous indignation" at the money traders just the one time. Righteous indignation, not anger. Jesus was perfect in mind. He never succumbed to the negative emotion of anger. But my mind can be changed by a simple reference to exactly where, in scripture, he lost it.
Derek

Jim wrote:
So you admit Russell was a false prophet&, then, James?


(much as certain other so-called 'prophets with am obsession with their false conception of Egypt...(


Or the founding forefathers who forced their extraordinary beliefs on Christians 300 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, having no other authority then there unusual belief which introduced fraudulent and false doctrine into Christianity. Nothing short of a bunch of charlatan out to appease themselves.
Ketty

Ralph2 wrote:
[and more blah, blah] He never succumbed to the negative emotion of anger. But my mind can be changed by a simple reference to exactly where, in scripture, he lost it.


Straw man and bull and bluster maybe because you realise your original statement was incorrect?   That's okay, it's allowed.  

Christ Jesus* never 'lost it' in the terms to which you refer, btw.  But as you now acknowledge, he saved His anger and in fact used it, for those who deserved it - ie He isn't always 'gentle Jesus* meek and mild', "always using kindness and long suffering" as you asserted.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
So you admit Russell was a false prophet&, then, James?


(much as certain other so-called 'prophets with am obsession with their false conception of Egypt...(


You seem to make a lot from my posts. Russell exposed many of the erroneous teachings that came to be adopted by the religions of his day.
He also brought to the attention of his readers that the end time prophecies of the bible were coming to fruition.
Those who read his books or listened to his speeches agreed with what he had found

The Seventh day Adventist's had already been preaching this but had a real problem with the teaching of the bible on the ransom, Russell was keen to get things strait even if it meant admitting to past mistake, which religions would do that?

If I had to choose between you and Russell for revealing the truth who would I choose?
gone

Russell was a charlatan and that is being kind about him!
JamesJah

Floo wrote:
Russell was a charlatan and that is being kind about him!


When you say was does that mean he no longer is there forwhat he has to say is ok??
Jim

Sorry, floo, I'd have to disagree with you.
Unlike Smith, I don't think Russell was a charlatan.
He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
His involvement with freemasonry was unfortunate (and un-Christian). The drivel they taught probably led him into the tripe of pyramidiocy. He was not alone in this...however, itt was unfortunate for him that he couldn't measure the object of his worship (no, not God - the Great pyramid, which he called "a second Bible in stone") properly.
It was also unfortunate for both him and Smith that the nascent science of Egyptology was about to flower, ripping both their mystery cults apart.
In a sense, what both, in their seperate ways, were doing, was akin to the gnosticism of the late second-early fourth centuries; an attempt by non-Christians to conflate existing mysteries into Christianity, making pseudo-Christian sects as a result.
Derek

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
[and more blah, blah] He never succumbed to the negative emotion of anger. But my mind can be changed by a simple reference to exactly where, in scripture, he lost it.


Straw man and bull and bluster maybe because you realise your original statement was incorrect?   That's okay, it's allowed.  

Christ Jesus* never 'lost it' in the terms to which you refer, btw.  But as you now acknowledge, he saved His anger and in fact used it, for those who deserved it - ie He isn't always 'gentle Jesus* meek and mild', "always using kindness and long suffering" as you asserted.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.
Ketty

Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Leonard James

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


Ketty, my sweet! It is time you realised that the HS doesn't exist outside of people's minds, and it simply reiterates what the person concerned has already convinced himself is true.

That is why it tells different people different things. If it really existed, the message would always be the same.
gone

Good point, Leonard.
Derek

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


And here was I reading your response hoping that you were about to give me a scripture that I might have missed. What a shame it was only continued abuse. So, yet again, you have made a claim that you are unable to substantiate.
Derek

Leonard James wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


Ketty, my sweet! It is time you realised that the HS doesn't exist outside of people's minds, and it simply reiterates what the person concerned has already convinced himself is true.

That is why it tells different people different things. If it really existed, the message would always be the same.


Len, you are very close to what I believe is the truth. The Holy Spirit only manifests himself within the individuals mind, true, and it is not the actual Holy Ghost, at that, but it is his influence that fills the immensity of space. Christians simply tap into that reservoir of knowledge by opening their hearts to it. It is not dissimilar to the warmth of the noon day Sun. It stands in the universe as a single entity but we all, individually, feel of its warmth, even those who cannot see it.

Why does it seem to tell different people different things. We all ask different questions. We are all unique so the responses to our prayers will reflect that. You know what Len, you are right. This could all be a product of our own delusional insistence that something more exists other then this life and a plan of salvation may take the sting out of death for those who need it, however, pure Christianity can only enhance our mortal journey. It is not congregational it is personal. There is no reason for you to even know that I am a Christian. It should be a case of what Lexi has eloquently said. We should look at a follower of Christ and think "surely he/she is a Christian" By their fruits they should be known, and not by which congregation they belong to.

So, even if you are right and we are all deluding ourselves and convincing ourselves that a Holy Ghost exists, so what. If it harms nobody and we do not force our beliefs on anybody else, then what possible harm can it do anybody. It can only make our mortal existence a tad bit more bearable.
Jim

"it"?
The Greek mss definately put a persona on the Holy Spirit.
AS do all reputable translations*


*Naturally - why would they not, since He is God?
Shaker

Leonard James wrote:
Ketty, my sweet! It is time you realised that the HS doesn't exist outside of people's minds, and it simply reiterates what the person concerned has already convinced himself is true.

That is why it tells different people different things. If it really existed, the message would always be the same.

Them's my sentiments   A deity which (a) actually existed and (b) had an interest in getting the message out, so to speak, to all people would surely be able to keep the story straight, I'd have thought, instead of allowing the proliferation of such a plethora of mutually contradictory tales? The world as it exists is probably consistent with an uninvolved, abstract, hands-off deity; also consistent with a deity who either doesn't mind not being believed in or positively welcomes so many different competing theologies in an absentee landlord sort of way (though such suppositions are of course completely superfluous), but as far as I'm concerned not with one who wants to be believed in and who wishes all people to live in certain particular ways of its deciding. This is the argument from nonbelief and the argument from inconsistent revelations rolled into one - a twofer  
Shaker

Ralph2 wrote:
You know what Len, you are right. This could all be a product of our own delusional insistence that something more exists other then this life and a plan of salvation may take the sting out of death for those who need it

Interesting admission ...

Quote:
So, even if you are right and we are all deluding ourselves and convincing ourselves that a Holy Ghost exists, so what. If it harms nobody

It frequently does, though.
Quote:
and we do not force our beliefs on anybody else

This has also happened a very great deal, historically speaking.
gone

I bet it won't be long before Ralphie denies he said any of that!
Shaker

Would I be knocked backwards by surprise if this happened?

No.
Derek

Floo wrote:
I bet it won't be long before Ralphie denies he said any of that!


An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks
Leonard James

Ralph2 wrote:


So, even if you are right and we are all deluding ourselves and convincing ourselves that a Holy Ghost exists, so what. If it harms nobody and we do not force our beliefs on anybody else, then what possible harm can it do anybody. It can only make our mortal existence a tad bit more bearable.


Absolutely, Ralph!

I am sorry to hear you say "a tad bit more bearable", because it seems to imply that your life is difficult, so if your belief helps to alleviate things for you, that is a plus.  
Shaker

Ralph2 wrote:
Floo wrote:
I bet it won't be long before Ralphie denies he said any of that!


An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks


No:
Quote:
That is not a critique, it is an observation.
Derek

[quote="Shaker:97209"]

Quote:
Ralph2 wrote:
You know what Len, you are right. This could all be a product of our own delusional insistence that something more exists other then this life and a plan of salvation may take the sting out of death for those who need it

Interesting admission ...


Hardly an admission as much as it is being realistic. I no longer look for discrepancies in my religious belief. It is for me as the theory of evolution. Unproven yet factual.

Quote:
Quote:
So, even if you are right and we are all deluding ourselves and convincing ourselves that a Holy Ghost exists, so what. If it harms nobody


It frequently does, though.


No, that is man, not the Holy Ghost, for he is without malice or guile. Religion  is just the excuse men used to express his carnal nature.

Quote:
Quote:
and we do not force our beliefs on anybody else

This has also happened a very great deal, historically speaking.


Yes, that is unfortunate but not a requirement of God. Man's interpretations again allowing him to use a free will as a power. It is the duty of everyone who has been warned to warn his fellow man, once. Anything else is invasive.
Shaker

Ralph2 wrote:
No, that is man, not the Holy Ghost

That's because the former definitely exists and the latter almost certainly doesn't. Something that actually exists will always cause more harm that something that doesn't.  

Quote:
Yes, that is unfortunate but not a requirement of God.

Except in the view of those who believed that it was and believe that it is.
Derek

Shaker wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Floo wrote:
I bet it won't be long before Ralphie denies he said any of that!


An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks


No:
Quote:
That is not a critique, it is an observation.


Dress it up as you like. It was offensive and unnecessary.
Derek

[quote="Shaker:97224"]

Quote:
Ralph2 wrote:
No, that is man, not the Holy Ghost

That's because the former definitely exists and the latter almost certainly doesn't. Something that actually exists will always cause more harm that something that doesn't.
 

Quite so.

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, that is unfortunate but not a requirement of God.

Except in the view of those who believed that it was and believe that it is.


Yes, that is what is unfortunate.
JamesJah

Leonard James wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


Ketty, my sweet! It is time you realised that the HS doesn't exist outside of people's minds, and it simply reiterates what the person concerned has already convinced himself is true.

That is why it tells different people different things. If it really existed, the message would always be the same.


Ever heard of the spirit of error, humans do not know which is which that is why an accurate knowledge of scripture is needed by any human seeking the truth.

Jesus gave an excellent example when talking with the devil even when the Devil twisted a scripture Jesus knowledge of scripture was deep enough to protect his thinking, so as not to be deceived as many humans are.

Matthew 4:5-7
Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him upon the battlement of the temple and said to him: If you are a son of God, hurl yourself down;  

for it is written, ‘He will give his angels a charge concerning you, and they will carry you on their hands, that you may at no time strike your foot against a stone.

Jesus said to him: Again it is written, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’

This just helps us seeing the importance of having accurate knowledge does it not?
gone

Oh heck is JJ the 'accurate' Nicholas Marks?
Derek

JamesJah wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Let's cut the unnecessary rhetoric, give us a scripture reference where he does something other than practicing kindness and long suffering. Whilst you are doing that just have a quick look for us as to where he said he was a member of the trinity or God incarnate.


 Aw "Ralph", I know you can't help yourself, especially when you've been proven to be incorrect.     Maybe your KJ and your LDS texts leave you believing what it's clear you want to believe?   One day, I hope for your sake, the Holy Spirit* will convict you of the truth that is Christ Jesus*.  I've already pointed out that He*, when needed, demonstrated his anger at those who deserved it.  It's all there, if you've the will and desire to find it.

* I AM: the triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.


Ketty, my sweet! It is time you realised that the HS doesn't exist outside of people's minds, and it simply reiterates what the person concerned has already convinced himself is true.

That is why it tells different people different things. If it really existed, the message would always be the same.


Ever heard of the spirit of error, humans do not know which is which that is why an accurate knowledge of scripture is needed by any human seeking the truth.

Jesus gave an excellent example when talking with the devil even when the Devil twisted a scripture Jesus knowledge of scripture was deep enough to protect his thinking, so as not to be deceived as many humans are.

Matthew 4:5-7
Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him upon the battlement of the temple and said to him: If you are a son of God, hurl yourself down;  

for it is written, ‘He will give his angels a charge concerning you, and they will carry you on their hands, that you may at no time strike your foot against a stone.

Jesus said to him: Again it is written, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’

This just helps us seeing the importance of having accurate knowledge does it not?


Yes!!
Jim

Floo.
ERROR.

What "accurate NicholasMarks'
Ketty

[quote="Ralph2:97220"]
Floo wrote:

An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks


Bit like yourself then.  
gone

[quote="Ketty:97242"]
Ralph2 wrote:
Floo wrote:

An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks


Bit like yourself then.  


I wrote no such thing!
Derek

[quote="Floo:97246"]
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Floo wrote:

An example of you and Shaker initiating an attack against me for no other reason than you can. Thanks


Bit like yourself then.  


I wrote no such thing!



Quote:
I bet it won't be long before Ralphie denies he said any of that


You don't even know when you insult people, do you? That is an unnecessary derogatory remark. What did I say to warrant such a remark.
Derek

Leonard James wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:


So, even if you are right and we are all deluding ourselves and convincing ourselves that a Holy Ghost exists, so what. If it harms nobody and we do not force our beliefs on anybody else, then what possible harm can it do anybody. It can only make our mortal existence a tad bit more bearable.


Absolutely, Ralph!

I am sorry to hear you say "a tad bit more bearable", because it seems to imply that your life is difficult, so if your belief helps to alleviate things for you, that is a plus.  


No more so then anyone else Len. I have a mentally ill son, who I do worry about, alot. He gets these spells where he goes to his bedroom and just lays on his bed, sometimes for days, and he is in one of those spells now. I worry though, because we are getting older and he really needs to be with someone who loves him, so, if, and when, we go, there will be someone to care for him. The rest are all successful people so I shouldn't worry as they will look after him, but I still cannot help it. I am sure that my problems are trivial, compared to many, so I do not moan to much. I can only but pray, that when I get to your age, if I get to your age, I will be as cool as your are. My religion is a major part of my life though, it is true, however, I genuinely do not expect anyone to follow my lead. If, when I die, there is nothing, then what the heck, will I care? If there is, then it will have been all worth it, although it is nothing difficult in being a Christian anymore. We all struggle at times though, don't we? My personal cross has always been depression, but I have to be grateful for the medicine of the day. Anything that help you get through the day is a plus.
Jim

The Holy Spirit is NOT an 'it'.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html
Lexilogio

Jim wrote:
The Holy Spirit is NOT an 'it'.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html


Hmmm. I always thought of the Holy Spirit as hermaphrodite though - neither gender. And we don't really have personal pronouns for "neither gender".
Shaker

Lexilogio wrote:
Jim wrote:
The Holy Spirit is NOT an 'it'.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html


Hmmm. I always thought of the Holy Spirit as hermaphrodite though - neither gender. And we don't really have personal pronouns for "neither gender".

Much what I thought. I don't see how you can or would use 'he' or 'she' so 'it' seems to be the only remaining option.
Jim

However, refering to Him using a neutral pronoun suggests that He is not a person.
This is not the case.
Jim

For a reasonable discussion of the Person of the Holy Spirit, try

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30241/30241-h/30241-h.html#toc1
Lexilogio

Jim wrote:
However, refering to Him using a neutral pronoun suggests that He is not a person.
This is not the case.


I'd disagree. I don't see "it" as relating to an object as opposed to a person, although I appreciate in other languages that can be the case. "It" can be linguistically used for someone who is neither - for example, new baby - "Is it a boy or a girl?" - the first applied personal pronoun is "it".
Derek

Lexilogio wrote:
Jim wrote:
The Holy Spirit is NOT an 'it'.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html


Hmmm. I always thought of the Holy Spirit as hermaphrodite though - neither gender. And we don't really have personal pronouns for "neither gender".


I genuinely do not care if the Holy Ghost is male or female, however, the scriptures tell us that the Holy Ghost is a male. Most depictions of the Holy Ghost, with in the founding fore fathers introduction of the trinity, are in the form of a man. Apparently the translation is taken from a masculine impression of the word 'him'.

John 16:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

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