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Lexilogio

Restaurant Conversation

We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  
Leonard James

Re: Restaurant Conversation

Lexilogio wrote:
We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  

I can't see what investigating more would serve, anyway. If they have lived their lives and pleased 'God' then presumably he will take them into heaven, and if they haven't, it would be a bit hypocritical to say sorry now just to get in.
gone

Re: Restaurant Conversation

Lexilogio wrote:
We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  


A very unusual dinner table conversation in a restaurant I would have thought.
horsethorn

Re: Restaurant Conversation

floo wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  


A very unusual dinner table conversation in a restaurant I would have thought.


Is it?  

Although we don't have to go out to dinner to have conversations like those...  

ht
Lexilogio

Re: Restaurant Conversation

Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  

I can't see what investigating more would serve, anyway. If they have lived their lives and pleased 'God' then presumably he will take them into heaven, and if they haven't, it would be a bit hypocritical to say sorry now just to get in.


Why is it hypocritical for someone to have a change of heart? I can see that there is the potential for fear of death within the decision, but surely everyone is entitled to be able to say they were wrong about something?
IvyOwl

Hi Lexi,

Earwigging the convos here (and the other one) is my version of going out to dinner. All they ever talk about over at my nearest eating place (the local) is rugby and footie.

I expect the women had heard it all before from their menfolk and were finding the talk from your table far more interesting!

IvyOwl
gone

IvyOwl wrote:
Hi Lexi,

Earwigging the convos here (and the other one) is my version of going out to dinner. All they ever talk about over at my nearest eating place (the local) is rugby and footie.

I expect the women had heard it all before from their menfolk and were finding the talk from your table far more interesting!

IvyOwl


My man NEVER talks about sport of any sort having no interest in it. Before his illness he wasn't always a comfortable conversationalist, abhorring small talk and challenging a person if they made a throwaway comment, asking them to provide evidence to support it! Fortunately neither of us like social situations where we have to interact with strangers, and usually confine our social activities to interaction with family and friends, even more so now since my husband's illness.
Leonard James

Re: Restaurant Conversation

Lexilogio wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
We went out for dinner last night.

Typically for my family, the conversation turned to such topics as - the metaphorical references in vampiric tales, and how this relates to religions. (My kids are amazing at arguing stuff!)



The next table were discussing atheism, agnosticism, and belief. They were all past retirement, silver haired, and I'd guess in their 70's. Still reasonably sprightly, but with walking sticks.

There were two couples. One gentleman clearly did not believe, and was not going to be labelled as agnostic. He was determined that he was an atheist. The second gentleman (the ladies didn't speak) had what appeared to be a wavering belief, and was arguing that if you didn't know, at their age, wasn't it worth investigating more.



.... I should go out for dinner more often  

I can't see what investigating more would serve, anyway. If they have lived their lives and pleased 'God' then presumably he will take them into heaven, and if they haven't, it would be a bit hypocritical to say sorry now just to get in.


Why is it hypocritical for someone to have a change of heart? I can see that there is the potential for fear of death within the decision, but surely everyone is entitled to be able to say they were wrong about something?

Sure they are, if it's genuine ... but if they've lived their life not believing for whatever reasons, and nothing new has occurred to change those reasons, it seems less than genuine to do so just because of the proximity of death.
IvyOwl

Hi Floo,

I'm OK, good at even, with social interactions with strangers but it can be hard work at times. Last time I went out it was over the pub as a local business man had stumped up free breakfasts for people watching the Wales v France match. I take a passing interest in rugby because of my grandson and a free breakfast is not to be sniffed at but devoured with relish! (The pub is just over the lane so I would have got whiff of all that bacon being cooked anyway!)

Well it was the best bacon and egg roll ever, the match was disappointing and the banter was tedious as always. Came back wondering why I'd bothered. Could have watched it at home and got the ironing done at the same time!

Oh well I find I could quite happily become a hermit in my old age but it's probably good for me to get out occassionally .... if only to remind myself how much I prefer my own company!

IvyOwl
IvyOwl

Quote:
Sure they are, if it's genuine ... but if they've lived their life not believing for whatever reasons, and nothing new has occurred to change those reasons, it seems less than genuine to do so just because of the proximity of death.


I see what you mean Len but going back to the conversation overheard by Lexi I got the impression that the complete disbeliever wasn't even allowing the possibility of anything new entering his thoughts. Of course I could be wrong, I wasn't there and yes I know it's wrong to generalise but in my 60 odd years of observations men don't like admitting they are wrong especially not in public. The fact that their woman kept out of it suggested that these two were strong personalities who weren't going to give way.

IvyOwl
gone

IvyOwl wrote:
Hi Floo,

I'm OK, good at even, with social interactions with strangers but it can be hard work at times. Last time I went out it was over the pub as a local business man had stumped up free breakfasts for people watching the Wales v France match. I take a passing interest in rugby because of my grandson and a free breakfast is not to be sniffed at but devoured with relish! (The pub is just over the lane so I would have got whiff of all that bacon being cooked anyway!)

Well it was the best bacon and egg roll ever, the match was disappointing and the banter was tedious as always. Came back wondering why I'd bothered. Could have watched it at home and got the ironing done at the same time!

Oh well I find I could quite happily become a hermit in my old age but it's probably good for me to get out occassionally .... if only to remind myself how much I prefer my own company!

IvyOwl


I dislike going out for a meal unless forced to by the kids, who say it is good for me! In fact apart from doing my supermarket shop and other chores using the car, it wouldn't worry me if I never went outside the boundaries of our local vicinity. And no I am not agoraphobic, I am not scared of outdoors etc, I just hate being out of my routines which are more entrenched as I get older, sad that I am!  I haven't had a holiday this year, which doesn't worry me a bit, although it would be nice to have a break from my husband for a few days. That isn't likely to happen until next year now, I don't suppose.
Leonard James

IvyOwl wrote:
Quote:
Sure they are, if it's genuine ... but if they've lived their life not believing for whatever reasons, and nothing new has occurred to change those reasons, it seems less than genuine to do so just because of the proximity of death.


I see what you mean Len but going back to the conversation overheard by Lexi I got the impression that the complete disbeliever wasn't even allowing the possibility of anything new entering his thoughts. Of course I could be wrong, I wasn't there and yes I know it's wrong to generalise but in my 60 odd years of observations men don't like admitting they are wrong especially not in public. The fact that their woman kept out of it suggested that these two were strong personalities who weren't going to give way.

IvyOwl

Well, Ivy, I was taking the reported conversation at face value, and judging on that. There are, of course, many possible nuances that are not clear in it.
IvyOwl

There certainly are Len! We could speculate endlessly. I can imagine for instance the women catching each others eyes with the 'why do bloody men have to have egos?' look. But that's just my bias .... they may equally well have been respectfully listening  .......... to the convo from Lexis table!  

IvyOwl
IvyOwl

PS Bet they'd be amused to know they were being discussed by total strangers on a message board!  

IvyOwl
IvyOwl

Hello Floo,

I can relate to a lot of what you say but I guess we are both lucky in that we live in such lovely areas so it's easy to be happy with the vicinities we find ourselves in. Having said that even if I lived in a less picturesque area I'd still be happy as long as I had space to do my sewing projects and a bit of a garden.

However I hope you'll get away and get a break from your husband it must be such hard work for you.

I've not had a holiday for years and don't feel the need for one. A visit to my Mum in the summer was all the travel I want for a while. However I have toyed with the idea of saving up for a trip to Spain ... not the touristy bits as I've never fancied those ... a little place called Polop ..... wouldn't mind getting a look at that Sleeping Lion  (mountain)!

IvyOwl

PS No need to get baking a cake just yet Len. Incomings in perfect balance with outgoings at the moment so no chance of travel in the foreseeable future.
Lexilogio

IvyOwl wrote:
Hi Lexi,

Earwigging the convos here (and the other one) is my version of going out to dinner. All they ever talk about over at my nearest eating place (the local) is rugby and footie.

I expect the women had heard it all before from their menfolk and were finding the talk from your table far more interesting!

IvyOwl


   I think your right.

Quote:
I see what you mean Len but going back to the conversation overheard by Lexi I got the impression that the complete disbeliever wasn't even allowing the possibility of anything new entering his thoughts. Of course I could be wrong, I wasn't there and yes I know it's wrong to generalise but in my 60 odd years of observations men don't like admitting they are wrong especially not in public. The fact that their woman kept out of it suggested that these two were strong personalities who weren't going to give way.


I did get that impression. At one point the atheist said, "We've been over all this before. And we aren't going to agree."
Leonard James

IvyOwl wrote:

PS No need to get baking a cake just yet Len. Incomings in perfect balance with outgoings at the moment so no chance of travel in the foreseeable future.

Hi Ivy,

Here is the village website with a few views of Polop. For some daft reason they haven't put in a pic of the Sleeping Lion Mountain, which is one of the most spectacular scenes here.

http://www.polop.org/index.php?op...view&gallery=1&Itemid=137

Have just found this, which is the mountain, but taken from a bad angle, so it doesn't look very lion-like!

http://www.pueblos-espana.org/com...valenciana/alicante/polop/593645/
Lexilogio

Leonard James wrote:
IvyOwl wrote:

PS No need to get baking a cake just yet Len. Incomings in perfect balance with outgoings at the moment so no chance of travel in the foreseeable future.

Hi Ivy,

Here is the village website with a few views of Polop. For some daft reason they haven't put in a pic of the Sleeping Lion Mountain, which is one of the most spectacular scenes here.

http://www.polop.org/index.php?op...view&gallery=1&Itemid=137

Have just found this, which is the mountain, but taken from a bad angle, so it doesn't look very lion-like!

http://www.pueblos-espana.org/com...valenciana/alicante/polop/593645/


Lovely  
IvyOwl

What a lovely place you live in Len!! I'd imagined it to be a bit smaller. I'd never really fancied visiting Spain (Been put off by the package holiday stuff) until I watched one of those 'buying property abroad' type programmes when I saw a new side to it!

I could just about make out a lion shape in the mountain. How high is it?

Thankyou for posting the links  

IvyOwl
Leonard James

IvyOwl wrote:
What a lovely place you live in Len!! I'd imagined it to be a bit smaller. I'd never really fancied visiting Spain (Been put off by the package holiday stuff) until I watched one of those 'buying property abroad' type programmes when I saw a new side to it!

I could just about make out a lion shape in the mountain. How high is it?

Thankyou for posting the links  

IvyOwl

When we came here, Ivy, over 20 years ago, it was a village of just over a 1,000 inhabitants. Unfortunately, because of its beauty and peace it has suffered from tourist invasion and many of the newer houses are only second homes, not occupied all the year.

Here are two better views of Lion Mountain http://www.virtualtourist.com/tra...13/Things_To_Do-Polop-TG-C-1.html

and

http://www.costablancamountainfri...kinghikingscrambling-routes3.html (click on Monte Ponoch, 4th pic down, to enlarge it)

which is just over 1,000m high.
IvyOwl

That's an impressive hunk of rock Len!

I see it's 'strenuous hike' able, have you ever done it? After all you were still a young man when you moved there. Oh heck what am I saying? You were about the same age I am now and I don't see myself as young anymore. Mind you I am considering tackling Cader Idris sometime soon ... just going to get a little bit fitter first ... you know how it is!

Has the tourist invasion been all negative or are there some benefits? Empty holiday homes for most of the year ... not good.

IvyOwl
Leonard James

IvyOwl wrote:
That's an impressive hunk of rock Len!

I see it's 'strenuous hike' able, have you ever done it? After all you were still a young man when you moved there. Oh heck what am I saying? You were about the same age I am now and I don't see myself as young anymore. Mind you I am considering tackling Cader Idris sometime soon ... just going to get a little bit fitter first ... you know how it is!

Has the tourist invasion been all negative or are there some benefits? Empty holiday homes for most of the year ... not good.

IvyOwl

Hi Ivy,

I was over 60 when we retired here, and I wasn't in the best of health, so I didn't get around to climbing the Lion. I'm a lot fitter now, but I doubt I could make it to the top.

The only benefit I can see from the enormous expansion is that all the services have improved, due to the fact that assistive improvement grants from the Valencian government depend on the population size.

However, it has meant that the quaint charm which we arrived to has gone for ever, although we live in a very quiet urbanisation at the foot of the mountain and are not much affected by it.
Ketty

Lennie, it looks spectacular and rather lovely. I'd just admire the view and those who feel the urge to climb it, from my base in the shade - sipping something cool with a chink of ice.

Lexi, I'm always getting into trouble with whoever is in my company, for ear-wigging onto other people's conversations - and embroidering all sorts of scenarios from what I've overheard.    
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:


Lexi, I'm always getting into trouble with whoever is in my company, for ear-wigging onto other people's conversations - and embroidering all sorts of scenarios from what I've overheard.    


 Maybe you should write stories....
Leonard James

Ketty wrote:
Lennie, it looks spectacular and rather lovely. I'd just admire the view and those who feel the urge to climb it, from my base in the shade - sipping something cool with a chink of ice.

We do! It is, of course, the dominant background of the view from our terrace, and deceivingly close. In reality, the figures of the few intrepid climbers that attempt the sheer face are tiny little stick-men ... and at least once or twice a year the helicopters have to come and rescue somebody in trouble, which provides us with a floor show!
Tricky Dicky

Leonard James wrote:
Here is the village website with a few views of Polop. For some daft reason they haven't put in a pic of the Sleeping Lion Mountain, which is one of the most spectacular scenes here.



Spectacular enough, though, Len. Looks marvellous - quite whetted my appetite to visit southern Spain again (haven't been there for about ten years - I tend to go more often to the north)
Tricky Dicky

Leonard James wrote:
The only benefit I can see from the enormous expansion is that all the services have improved, due to the fact that assistive improvement grants from the Valencian government depend on the population size.

However, it has meant that the quaint charm which we arrived to has gone for ever, although we live in a very quiet urbanisation at the foot of the mountain and are not much affected by it.


I imagine there's some huge, ugly dam somewhere around. One of the unfortunate consequences of being alive, is that we need water. I don't think there are many Spanish rivers that flow freely into the Mediterranean any more. The need to maximise the water supply even applies to northern Spain. They flooded the old town of Riano (with tilde) in Leon quite a few years back. All that's left of the old part is the church on the hill. The night I was there back in 1995, the proprietor of my hostal died  (el jodido ingles con su mala suerte). I was mildly amused, as I walked miles along the valley the next day, how the one talking point in all the cafes I entered was "La muerte de Manolo".
Leonard James

Tricky Dicky wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
The only benefit I can see from the enormous expansion is that all the services have improved, due to the fact that assistive improvement grants from the Valencian government depend on the population size.

However, it has meant that the quaint charm which we arrived to has gone for ever, although we live in a very quiet urbanisation at the foot of the mountain and are not much affected by it.


I imagine there's some huge, ugly dam somewhere around. One of the unfortunate consequences of being alive, is that we need water. I don't think there are many Spanish rivers that flow freely into the Mediterranean any more. The need to maximise the water supply even applies to northern Spain. They flooded the old town of Riano (with tilde) in Leon quite a few years back. All that's left of the old part is the church on the hill. The night I was there back in 1995, the proprietor of my hostal died (the el jodido ingles con su mala suerte). I was mildly amused, as I walked miles along the valley the next day, how the one talking point in all the cafes I entered was "La muerte de Manolo".

Hi Dicky,

The nearest dam/reservoir to us is in Guadalest, one of the famous beauty spots of Spain, and I have to tell you that its beauty is not exagerated.
http://www.guadalest.es/galeria.php

Pic 13 shows the actual dam, but I confess I have never seen the front of it.

Your story of Manolo demonstrates the enormous family instinct which is still a strong part of non-urban life here. News of births, deaths, accidents, illness, etc., spreads like magic, and the whole village knows far quicker than the media could achieve!

EDIT: Here are some more pics of the reservoir :-

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=...mBC8rxsgbNzYX3Dw&ved=0CB0QsAQ
Tricky Dicky

Leonard James wrote:
[The nearest dam/reservoir to us is in Guadalest, one of the famous beauty spots of Spain, and I have to tell you that its beauty is not exagerated.
http://www.guadalest.es/galeria.php

Pic 13 shows the actual dam, but I confess I have never seen the front of it.



Wow! I must say the dam looks much more impressive than any of the ugly brutes I've seen in Spain, and better still, doesn't seem to detract from the magnificent scenery around it.
Leonard James

Obviously the surrounding area was all very beautiful when they built the dam, so it didn't take long to recover from the scarring. Some of the newer ones are in less happy circumstances, and will take a long time to mature.
IvyOwl

That is indeed an impressive reservoir Len.

Quote:
pic 13 shows the actual dam, but I confess I have never seen the front of it.


Fronts of dams are scarey!

IvyOwl
Leonard James

This is the only pic I can find of the front of the dam, and it does look a bit scarey!

http://www.visualphotos.com/image...te_guadalest_reservoir_dam_nature
IvyOwl

Not too bad seen from above and well away!  

IvyOwl

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