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Lexilogio

Simple Curiosity

I'm curious about how much our athiests accept or don't accept.

Do you believe Jesus existed? And if so - who do you consider he was?
Where and why do you think Christianity orginated?
Do you consider the Book of Acts, as an historical account of the early church (excluding miracles) to be true to any extent?

Thank you Smilie_PDT
northernstar

Jesus probably lived but was just a teacher, nothing more, nothing less. For me, the Bible is just a collection of stories. I do not believe there is a God, full stop.
Shaker

Quote:
Do you believe Jesus existed?

Undecided: there simply isn't enough credible evidence to base anything upon, so it remains an open question. The historical Jesus camp don't have a great deal to base their stance on, and the Jesus mythicists, while possibly not the whole story, make some good points. That doesn't necessarily make an historical Jesus untrue, but may demonstrate that early Christianity was a syncretistic amalgam of pre-existing religions and possibly myths and legends which accreted around a real individual over time. In one way that makes a presumed historical Jesus even more distant and shadowy a figure about whom almost nothing can be said with any confidence. The fragmentary and contradictory nature of Biblical sources; the inadmissibility of using the Bible to prove the Bible; and the paucity and controversial status of extra-Biblical sources all make for an exceptionally confused picture. One quote from the Wikipedia article on an historical Jesus that hit home with me is from a Professor C. Stephen Evans, who said that "there is no story of the historical Jesus that can be isolated from faith convictions," which is dubious from an historical point of view for the most obvious reasons.

So in short, I've no idea.
Quote:
And if so - who do you consider he was?

On the working hypothesis that there was such an individual, it seems most likely that he'd have been been born a Jew who eventually came to preach a different, less legalistic and more individually spiritual form of Judaism which in some respects challenged the status quo of the day and came to be seen as threatening to the established religious and social order and the powers vested therein, more than likely Roman as well as Jewish.
Quote:
Where and why do you think Christianity orginated?

Where is easy - I'd say around the Mediterranean basin, taking in what we now call the middle eastern countries (Israel, etc) and Turkey. Why is in a sense more difficult, but on the other hand easy: for the same reason that any religion establishes itself, namely, that what it purports to offer appeals to (some might say pander to) human needs, invariably the need to feel special, the need to feel that life has some sort of meaning and significance beyond or outside of itself, and that oblivion isn't the end. Even non-theistic religions (if that's what they are) such as Buddhism offer the same sort of narrative, albeit in different terms.
Quote:
Do you consider the Book of Acts, as an historical account of the early church (excluding miracles) to be true to any extent?

That I don't know.

Hope this helps!
chadivarus

Yes!

Something inspired people to die proclaiming that he existed and was who it seems he claimed to be.

What was it and why?
Shaker

Quote:
Something inspired people to die proclaiming that he existed and was who it seems he claimed to be.

What was it and why?

Belief in and dedication to the cause they espoused. Because that's what humans do.
chadivarus

Yes!  But some of them died knowing that what they proclaimed was false if Jesus didn't rise again.

Were they MAD?
Shaker

Quote:
Yes!  But some of them died knowing that what they proclaimed was false if Jesus didn't rise again.

Were they MAD?


The more likely explanation is that they were sincere but mistaken - it happens, you know. I don't want to end the discussion prematurely by invoking Godwin's Law or anything but let's face it: in the twentieth century alone millions believed in, fought and died for fascistic/totalitarian ideologies. They sincerely believed in what they stood for and gave their lives as a consequence. We on the other side consider them wrong just as they considered us wrong. But they did it nonetheless. As I say, it's what humans do.
chadivarus

I had in mind those who said they had witnessed the rising again, and if they had not they died knowing they were lying.

Seem a bit Odd.
Paul

admin wrote:
Quote:
Something inspired people to die proclaiming that he existed and was who it seems he claimed to be.

What was it and why?

Belief in and dedication to the cause they espoused. Because that's what humans do.


Of course, people like St. Polycarp and St. Clement (whom were martyred) were disciples of hte Apostles, that is, of those who had seen Jesus both before and after his resurrection.
Shaker

Quote:
Of course, people like St. Polycarp and St. Clement (whom were martyred) were disciples of hte Apostles, that is, of those who had seen Jesus both before and after his resurrection.

Of course :roll:
Paul

Why wouldn't they have been? Which of course is what you are implying.
Shaft2101

Lexi - was going to post on this, then saw that admin has ripped off all my thoughtsand ideas wholesale and appropriated them for himself  :x

In other words - I agree with Shakey
chadivarus

Quote:
I had in mind those who said they had witnessed the rising again, and if they had not they died knowing they were lying.

Seem a bit Odd.


Perhaps it seem reasonable to you.
The Littlest Homo

Re: Simple Curiosity

Lexilogio wrote:
I'm curious about how much our athiests accept or don't accept.

Do you believe Jesus existed? And if so - who do you consider he was?


I believe there was a chap called "jesus" (they're may have been more than one chap). I don't think he was anything special. There may have been a guy claiming to be the son of "god", in which case he may have been mentally ill.

I don't believe in any of the miracles, virgin birth, crucifixion, or resurrection. Especially when many of these things were written in the bible by different authors years after the events.

Quote:
Where and why do you think Christianity orginated?


I know that Christianity isn't an original idea, with many of its ideas and holy days plaigarised from religions such as paganism.

Quote:
Do you consider the Book of Acts, as an historical account of the early church (excluding miracles) to be true to any extent?


I am sure that some characters, geographical regions and ethnic groups are historically accurate, but anything involving "jesus" and "god" I don't see as being true.
Silver

omshafoo wrote:
Yes!  But some of them died knowing that what they proclaimed was false if Jesus didn't rise again.

Were they MAD?



Can we trust anything in the bible that is written about the disciples? There are no personal or eyewitness accounts and it is all second hand. Even many scholars believe John was written over SIXTY years after Jesus died and other gospels DECADES later.

If you were a disciple, would you have waited decades before writing down what you knew about Jesus or would you do it while your memories were fresh?
Silver

Lexilogio. I don't believe Jesus existed. I don't know how many of his disciples existed, if any, other than Paul (who made up his origins). Lots of religions started from nothing and built up huge followings. Why should christianity be any different?
Guest

Silver wrote:
Lexilogio. I don't believe Jesus existed. I don't know how many of his disciples existed, if any, other than Paul (who made up his origins). Lots of religions started from nothing and built up huge followings. Why should christianity be any different?


You have no proof of what you say, Sheer suposition.
Jesus existed and it cannot be changed or doubt cast on it.
Why you doubt the existence of th apostles when their lives are clearly not doubted is beyond even your comprehension.

Love is...
Lexilogio

I do find it quite strange that people would consider that Jesus hadn't existed at all - and that St Paul had made the whole thing up?

I just can't:
a. fathom what St Pauls' motivation for doing that would be
b. understand how you can ignore the growing Christian movement pre Paul?
chadivarus

Quote:
Can we trust anything in the bible that is written about the disciples? There are no personal or eyewitness accounts and it is all second hand. Even many scholars believe John was written over SIXTY years after Jesus died and other gospels DECADES later.


Do you need the bible to know that many people were executed for proclaiming the death and rising again.
And that some of those were people who claimed to have pesonally seen him after his rising.

If they did not do so then then died knowing that their claim was a lie.

I ask again were they mad?

By the way it is believd that most of the NT was written before AD90 and much before ad70.
The Littlest Homo

Love is... wrote:
You have no proof of what you say, Sheer suposition.
Jesus existed and it cannot be changed or doubt cast on it.
Why you doubt the existence of th apostles when their lives are clearly not doubted is beyond even your comprehension.


Utter bullshit! You are doing it again, passing off things as fact and truth with nothing to back them up. Then you wander why you get ridiculed! :roll:
Shaker

Quote:
Jesus existed and it cannot be changed or doubt cast on it.

Wrong  :wink:

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