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JamesJah

Tetrad blood moons???

Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Jim

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

[quote="JamesJah:122083"]Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?
-
None.
Blood moons, like blue moons, are perfectly understandable natural phenomena They're not to common, but they happen with reasonable regularity.
Blood moons were reported on the walls of Egyptian tombs as early as the Old Kingdom, and on Stelae in the Middle Kingdom.  
Indeed, a 'blood moon' was mentioned on one of the walls of the famous first intermediate tomb of the nomarch Ankhtifi
http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/moalla/ankhtifi/e_ankhtifi_01.htm
suggesting that the phenomena was well known by that time.
Did the world end then?
JamesJah

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

[quote="Jim:122085"]
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?
-
None.
Blood moons, like blue moons, are perfectly understandable natural phenomena They're not to common, but they happen with reasonable regularity.
Blood moons were reported on the walls of Egyptian tombs as early as the Old Kingdom, and on Stelae in the Middle Kingdom.  
Indeed, a 'blood moon' was mentioned on one of the walls of the famous first intermediate tomb of the nomarch Ankhtifi
http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/moalla/ankhtifi/e_ankhtifi_01.htm
suggesting that the phenomena was well known by that time.
Did the world end then?


Quite right the Egyptian were only foolish enough to wrestle with the Almighty, not a wise coarse of action.

The Egyptians had forgot that it was he that they owed all their wealth to was it not?

So how applicable are the blood moons to end time prophecy. judging by the two scriptures quoted?

You might like to note that of the seven last plagues the seventh one has taken place has it not?
Jim

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

[quote="JamesJah:122087"][quote="Jim:122085"]
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?
-
None.
Blood moons, like blue moons, are perfectly understandable natural phenomena They're not to common, but they happen with reasonable regularity.
Blood moons were reported on the walls of Egyptian tombs as early as the Old Kingdom, and on Stelae in the Middle Kingdom.  
Indeed, a 'blood moon' was mentioned on one of the walls of the famous first intermediate tomb of the nomarch Ankhtifi
http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/moalla/ankhtifi/e_ankhtifi_01.htm
suggesting that the phenomena was well known by that time.
Did the world end then?


Quite right the Egyptian were only foolish enough to wrestle with the Almighty, not a wise coarse of action.
-
Eh?
Please show where, in Old Kingdom or first Intermediate period Egypt. the Egyptians even encountered, far less wrestled with, God?
-

The Egyptians had forgot that it was he that they owed all their wealth to was it not?
-
Please show any evdence of monotheism in Old Kingdom or Middle Kingdom Egypt that confirms your statement.
-

Before spouting yet more texts which are diddly squat to do with the NATURAL phenomenon we experienced last week, is there any chance that you will answer the above questions in a remotely coherant fashion?

(Not that I'm building my hopes up....)
JamesJah

Quote:

Jim Quote

So how applicable are the blood moons to end time prophecy. judging by the two scriptures quoted?
-
Not applicable at all.
Simply a perfectly natural phenomena.



-What the bible has to say>>\/

Luke 21:25-27
there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
cyberman

I'm sure it's just me, but I haven't got the foggiest idea what this thread really means.
Jim

S' OK, cyberman.
It's only James doing his private Frazer impression again.
Leonard James

cyberman wrote:
I'm sure it's just me, but I haven't got the foggiest idea what this thread really means.


It's just JJ asking questions he thinks he knows the answer to. He is quite unaware that he has been brainwashed with rubbish.  
Shaker

cyberman wrote:
I'm sure it's just me

No, if it's a JJ thread it's never just you  
Jim

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

[quote="Jim:122090"][quote="JamesJah:122087"]
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?
-
None.
Blood moons, like blue moons, are perfectly understandable natural phenomena They're not to common, but they happen with reasonable regularity.
Blood moons were reported on the walls of Egyptian tombs as early as the Old Kingdom, and on Stelae in the Middle Kingdom.  
Indeed, a 'blood moon' was mentioned on one of the walls of the famous first intermediate tomb of the nomarch Ankhtifi
http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/moalla/ankhtifi/e_ankhtifi_01.htm
suggesting that the phenomena was well known by that time.
Did the world end then?


Quite right the Egyptian were only foolish enough to wrestle with the Almighty, not a wise coarse of action.
-
Eh?
Please show where, in Old Kingdom or first Intermediate period Egypt. the Egyptians even encountered, far less wrestled with, God?
-

The Egyptians had forgot that it was he that they owed all their wealth to was it not?
-
Please show any evdence of monotheism in Old Kingdom or Middle Kingdom Egypt that confirms your statement.
-

Before spouting yet more texts which are diddly squat to do with the NATURAL phenomenon we experienced last week, is there any chance that you will answer the above questions in a remotely coherant fashion?

(Not that I'm building my hopes up....)

Bumped
JamesJah

Who made Egypt rich?

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.

What do you have against that???
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???
JamesJah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQeJMoho0w
Leonard James

JamesJah wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQeJMoho0w


Fanatical guys like JJ seem to do little more than quote other people's words! They seldom post their own thoughts ... in fact it seems they never try to think for themselves, they just keep parroting others. A sad lot!
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQeJMoho0w
 
Is that it?
Your answer?
Pathetic!
I only gave you one basic link.
Do you wish a more extensive list of links, literature and evidential inscriptions to back up my post?
If all you can do is waste my time with useless youtube videos and Scriptures taken out of context, I'm sorry for you, James.
Jim

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.
JamesJah

Leonard James wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQeJMoho0w


Fanatical guys like JJ seem to do little more than quote other people's words! They seldom post their own thoughts ... in fact it seems they never try to think for themselves, they just keep parroting others. A sad lot!


The destiny of this world is not in my hands regardless of that I think even though you might not think so it is not in your hands either regardless of what you think so do you know what is the destiny of this world the answer is no is there some one who does know the answer is yes ok>?

Psalm 118:8, 9
It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in earthling man.  It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in nobles.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQeJMoho0w
 
Is that it?
Your answer?
Pathetic!
I only gave you one basic link.
Do you wish a more extensive list of links, literature and evidential inscriptions to back up my post?
If all you can do is waste my time with useless youtube videos and Scriptures taken out of context, I'm sorry for you, James.


What context where?????
Jim

Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.


Bumped - again.
JamesJah

Most persons today realise we are in the end times because it is now obvious so what is there to debate?

There is only one solution so what is there to debate?


Mark 13:24-27
In those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Most persons today realise we are in the end times because it is now obvious so what is there to debate?

There is only one solution so what is there to debate?
-
"Most persons"?
-


Mark 13:24-27
In those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

-
Nope.
Not getting answers as to when you think the JJoseph and Moses incidents happened here, or my point that the word 'Pharaoh" suggests a judicial editing of the Pentateuch inthe sixth century BC.
No surprises there, then.

-
- And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.


-Again, no answers to my points relating to Egypt.
Why should I, or anyone else, respond to you, when you manifestly fail to respond to me?
Jim

Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.


Bumped - again.


Bumped - yet again - in an effort to aid lapses in JJames' memory.
Sebastian Toe

JamesJah wrote:
Most persons today realise we are in the end times because it is now obvious so what is there to debate?


Most people?
Really?

You have some proof of that?

What are the obvious bits?
JamesJah

Sebastian Toe wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Most persons today realise we are in the end times because it is now obvious so what is there to debate?


Most people?
Really?

You have some proof of that?

What are the obvious bits?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpPEdNOyK0       covenants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcdYDnsU4Y  New order anti JW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNyztf1UYJ0            Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67f2JjeZ_84            weeds

Her are a few for starters try the weeds first
Chicken Mamma

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.
JamesJah

Do you have a problem with who made Egypt rich Jim?

Who do you honour the kings a gods of Egypt or the Almighty God who revealed his purpose to the Hebrews?
JamesJah

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.


Has the seventh of the last seven plagues of revelation been fulfilled or mot?
JamesJah

Matthew 24:7-9
For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEt-DGCp4YI


Matthew 24:21, 22
.for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again2 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Do you have a problem with who made Egypt rich Jim?

-
No.
I have a problem with your abject failure to answer my points.
When?
At which particular point in Egyptian history?
Dyn III-VI?
Dyn XI-XII?
Dyn XVIII-XIX?
Because after that period - from about1200BC, Egypt began a slow decline from which she never recovered.
So Which period are you talking about?

Who do you honour the kings a gods of Egypt or the Almighty God who revealed his purpose to the Hebrews?


-
I admire the vast archaeological and historical evidence for an almost continuous 3300 year civilisation on the Nile Valley.

Now answer my points...or do you wish me to bump my post a fourth time for you to ignore?

Incidentally, Egyptology does not clash with my complete trust in God in Christ.
The earliest serious Egyptologists were Christian, and some of the most eminent in the field today are also Christian.
I well remember sharing a very special time of prayer round a camp fire when I was privilaged to be part of a dig at Tanis sponsored by the Egypt Exploration Society (founded by Christians).
We came from differing traditions - Copts, Orthodox, Anglican, Presbyterian and Baptist - but shared our unity in Christ, God Incarnate.

Now...back to my post.
Do you wish me to bump it again so you can ignore it?
Sebastian Toe

JamesJah wrote:
Sebastian Toe wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Most persons today realise we are in the end times because it is now obvious so what is there to debate?


Most people?
Really?

You have some proof of that?

What are the obvious bits?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpPEdNOyK0       covenants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcdYDnsU4Y  New order anti JW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNyztf1UYJ0            Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67f2JjeZ_84            weeds

Her are a few for starters try the weeds first
where is the proof that "most people" believe that we are in end times?
Chicken Mamma

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.


Has the seventh of the last seven plagues of revelation been fulfilled or mot?


I'd say not, the seals haven't been opened yet have they? do you think it has?
JamesJah

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.


Has the seventh of the last seven plagues of revelation been fulfilled or mot?


I'd say not, the seals haven't been opened yet have they? do you think it has?


The seals can be not so clear but the seven last plagues are quite strait forward or has global warming not one of them?
Leonard James

Once upon a time there was a God ....

cue Bible ...

And they all lived happily ever after.

That's all for tonight, children.

Another fairy story tomorrow night!

Sleep well!
Jim

Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.


Bumped - again.


Bumped - yet again - in an effort to aid lapses in JJames' memory.


-
Bumped - for a fourth time.
Playing around with WTBTS doctrine is OK, I suppose, but common courtesy dictates that an answer to the post whic addresses the issues it raises would be in order.
Sebastian Toe

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

JamesJah wrote:
or has global warming not one of them?


No, so you can sleep easy and go look for something else to do.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.


Bumped - again.


Bumped - yet again - in an effort to aid lapses in JJames' memory.


-
Bumped - for a fourth time.
Playing around with WTBTS doctrine is OK, I suppose, but common courtesy dictates that an answer to the post whic addresses the issues it raises would be in order.


If  your post man is not too your liking do you no longer open your ,ail and take note of what it has to say??
JamesJah

Leonard James wrote:
Once upon a time there was a God ....

cue Bible ...

And they all lived happily ever after.

That's all for tonight, children.

Another fairy story tomorrow night!

Sleep well!


What are you doing on a Christian discussion forum?

How many of these have you not seen?

Revelation 15:1
.I saw in heaven another sign, great and wonderful, seven angels with seven plagues. These are the last ones, because by means of them the anger of God is brought to a finish.

Revelation 16:1-19
.I heard a loud voice out of the sanctuary say to the seven angels: “Go and pour out the seven bowls of the anger of God on the earth.”

The first one went off and poured out his bowl on the earth. And a hurtful and malignant ulcer afflicted the people who had the mark of the wild beast and who were worshipping its image.

The second one poured out his bowl into the sea. And it became blood like that of a dead man, and every living creature died, yes, the things in the sea. 4 The third one poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water. And they became blood. I heard the angel over the waters say: “You, the One who is and who was, the loyal One, are righteous, for you have issued these judgments, because they poured out the blood of holy ones and of prophets, and you have given them blood to drink; they deserve it.” And I heard the altar say: “Yes, Jehovah God, the Almighty, true and righteous are your judgments.”

The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and to the sun it was granted to scorch the people with fire.
And the people were scorched by the great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give glory to him. 10 The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain,  but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works.

The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the rising of the sun. 13 And I saw three unclean inspired expressions that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”

And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon.

 The seventh one poured out his bowl on the air. At this a loud voice came out of the sanctuary from the throne, saying: “It has come to pass!”
cyberman

JamesJah wrote:
Most persons today realise we are in the end times


That isn't true, old bean. Whether you are right or wrong about these being the end times, it certainly is not the case that most people agree with you.
Sebastian Toe

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


While it is technically possible that bible prophecy could be fulfilled with the appearance of these 4 blood moons over the next 12 months, it is not likely. Many books by end times authors have been written to make money off this idea on eager Christians looking for the Lord’s Return. What is likely, however, is that these blood moons will not usher in any visible fulfillment of bible prophecy like the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church. As much as we would love it to be a herald of prophecy, there is a reason why it probably won’t be. Christians are told to “walk by faith”.

“For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:” 1 Corinthians 1:22

In the bible, Christians are not told to look for signs in the sky. We are told to look for the Blessed Hope, which cometh by faith. Christians living in the Age of Grace are commanded to “walk by faith”, and not by sight. The bible says that signs are for the Jews. But these greedy authors, if they “rightly divided” their bible would already know that.

“(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)” 2 Corinthians 5:7

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=17993
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Who made Egypt rich?
-
When?
There are approx. 3200 years from 'dyn 0' - dyn 31 during which Egypt went through substantial periods of extreme poverty, division and  disunity.
The first reference to a blood moon comes from the dyn IX around 2120 BC, when Egypt was divided into three mini states.
-

Jehovah when he opened Pharaoh's eyes to the dream that he had.

-
When (Chronologically)?
Because the term 'Per-aa' which we translate as Pharaoh, though first used of the female king Maatkare Hatshepsut ( r. 1498-1483), it did not occur again till the riegn of Njeterkhepere Siamun (r 978-959), but was not a normal part of kingly titulary until two or three centuries later.
This suggests that the Pentateuch was heavily edited in the sixth century, when the term 'Pharaoh' would have been common - but not in the time of Moses, some four centuries or more earlier - which takes nothing from the Scripture, but casts doubt on the historical sources of the editors.
This link
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/administration/pharaoh.htm
Gives a very simplistic view of the term (though I dissagree with the author's idea that Sheshonq IIII, a rather minor dyn XXII king as the first to use 'per-aa' as part of his titulary. Based on inscriptions at both Tanis and Luxor, I maintain that Siamun, a century earlier, is still the best candidate. Either way, Pi-Ramesse - the Biblical city of "Ramses" was by this time only a memory, the buildings being reassembled in Tanis.)
-

Which made him rich beyond measure, did it not?
-
When...chronologically speaking.
Be specific, please.
-

So Egypt had no right making slaves of their benefactors family.
-
Can I suggest that you look up the concept of slavery in New Kingdom Egypt, with reference to Pi-Ramess and the rise of the Delta? Since the entire city was moved from the origanal site to Tanis during the reign of Pasebakhaenuit I (r 1039-1031) there are ample ostraca and potsherds at the original site with comments from tose of the workers literate in hieratic describing their conditions.
-

The Hebrews had the right to strip the Egyptians of what the Egyptians owed them.
-
Assuming that there were assets to strip.
Since the Israelites were building Pi-Ramesse, the assets were somewhat limited - most of the craftsmanship and goldsmiths were based at Deir-el-Medina near the Valley of the Kings - an area where no non-artisan, never mind foriegner, had any chance of acccess.
-

What do you have against that???

Er....lack of evidence???

Bumped for James - in the vain hope that he might actually debate the points raised instead of ignoring them.


Bumped - again.


Bumped - yet again - in an effort to aid lapses in JJames' memory.


-
Bumped - for a fourth time.
Playing around with WTBTS doctrine is OK, I suppose, but common courtesy dictates that an answer to the post whic addresses the issues it raises would be in order.


If  your post man is not too your liking do you no longer open your ,ail and take note of what it has to say??


=
-
Your response to my post points out - yet again - your inability to deal with the archaeological evidence and Scripture at the same time - and the duplicitous nature of the pseudochristian cult to which you adhere.
JamesJah

Are you keeping on the watch?

What should you be looking for?

Matthew 24:39-42
so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.


Matthew 25:11-13
Afterward, the rest of the virgins also came, saying, ‘Sir, Sir, open to us!’

In answer he said, ‘I tell you the truth, I do not know you.’

“Keep on the watch, therefore, because you know neither the day nor [the hour

Keep on the watch for what exactly?

Are Christians keeping on the watch?

.
Sebastian Toe

JamesJah wrote:
Are you keeping on the watch?

What should you be looking for?

Keep on the watch for what exactly?

Are Christians keeping on the watch?

.



What are you looking for?
JamesJah

Sebastian Toe wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Are you keeping on the watch?

What should you be looking for?

Keep on the watch for what exactly?

Are Christians keeping on the watch?

.



What are you looking for?


Wheat Christians
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Are you keeping on the watch?

-
People who cannot - or will not - respond to posts.....

What should you be looking for?

-
People honourable enough to respond to posts.
.
JamesJah

Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?

-

When?
At which particular period in time?
During which dynasty?
During which riegn?

How many times do  I have to say this, James - I need specifics here...there have been many times whe Egypt was very rich - and many times when she was in abject poverty.
Are you experiencing difficulties with the word 'when'?
I'll define it for you...

"at which time".
Does that help?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?

-

When?
At which particular period in time?
During which dynasty?
During which riegn?

How many times do  I have to say this, James - I need specifics here...there have been many times whe Egypt was very rich - and many times when she was in abject poverty.
Are you experiencing difficulties with the word 'when'?
I'll define it for you...

"at which time".
Does that help?


You have to make your own date for what it ,matters as you have shown you prefer the knowledge of the world for you dates rather than the bibles time period.

Then again you could use the date in the time chart of the bible. which means it was just after 17 16
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?

-

When?
At which particular period in time?
During which dynasty?
During which riegn?

How many times do  I have to say this, James - I need specifics here...there have been many times whe Egypt was very rich - and many times when she was in abject poverty.
Are you experiencing difficulties with the word 'when'?
I'll define it for you...

"at which time".
Does that help?


You have to make your own date for what it ,matters as you have shown you prefer the knowledge of the world for you dates rather than the bibles time period.

Then again you could use the date in the time chart of the bible.which means it was just after 17 16


-
Wow"
I didn't know Joseph (or Moses, for that matter) knew so little about Egypt that they referred to the king of Egypt as 'Pharaoh' a thousand years BEFORE the title was used by the kings and the Egyptians themselves.
Would you care to offer an explanation?

You see, James, had the Pentateuch come down verbatum and unchanged from Moses, he would have been a very strange person.  
Here's a brief about kingly titulary:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/titles.htm
His account of Joseph talks about 'Pharaoh' - whic was a concept unknown in Egyptian literature in the 17th century BC, except in the case of Maatkare Hatshepsut, when the phrase 'per-aa' meaning 'Great house' was used to emphasise the unique nature of the female king in her mortury complex at Dier-el-Bahari (where no non Egyptian would ever be allowed).
The Joseph account also mentions 'money'.
THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS MONEY in the 17th century BC.
Indeed, the first coins were introduced into Egypt, in very small quantities, in the Saite period - by Greek mercenaries in the sixth century BC, which, by an astonishing coincidence, is when the term 'Pharaoh' became common, and most scholars believe the Pentateuch was rewritten and heavily edited to reach its familiar form.
Here's a link from the basic, but informative 'Tour Egypt' site regarding money in Egypt.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/prices.htm
Do you have issues with this statement?
If so, please challenge them giving EXTRA-SCRIPTURAL evidence.
Chicken Mamma

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.


Has the seventh of the last seven plagues of revelation been fulfilled or mot?


I'd say not, the seals haven't been opened yet have they? do you think it has?


The seals can be not so clear but the seven last plagues are quite strait forward or has global warming not one of them?


I think that those judgements follow the seals. But coming back to your original question, the signs in the sun and moon occur when the Lord opens the 6th seal (Rev 6:12), this takes place after the tribulation (the persecution of the saints by the antichrist). Note that when these signs occur the Lord gathers His saints, cutting short the tribulation (Mat 24). Since the man of lawlessness (2 Thess) is not on the stage yet we can't be anywhere near the time of the 6th seal.

Have you heard of Alan Kurschner? He has an online ministry regarding eschatology. His teaching stands up to Biblical scrutiny well I've found.

http://www.alankurschner.com/2014...tz-and-getting-back-to-the-bible/
JamesJah

Re: Tetrad blood moons???

Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Which of these are we about to see coming to completion?

What must one do to be saved?

Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Matthew 24:29, 30
.Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


neither - the tribulation of Matthew 24:29 has not occured yet.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" 2 Thessalonians 2:3

btw Joel and the Lord Jesus were referring to the same cosmic event. See also the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.


Has the seventh of the last seven plagues of revelation been fulfilled or mot?


I'd say not, the seals haven't been opened yet have they? do you think it has?


The seals can be not so clear but the seven last plagues are quite strait forward or has global warming not one of them?


I think that those judgements follow the seals. But coming back to your original question, the signs in the sun and moon occur when the Lord opens the 6th seal (Rev 6:12), this takes place after the tribulation (the persecution of the saints by the antichrist). Note that when these signs occur the Lord gathers His saints, cutting short the tribulation (Mat 24). Since the man of lawlessness (2 Thess) is not on the stage yet we can't be anywhere near the time of the 6th seal.

Have you heard of Alan Kurschner? He has an online ministry regarding eschatology. His teaching stands up to Biblical scrutiny well I've found.

http://www.alankurschner.com/2014...tz-and-getting-back-to-the-bible/


Because a number of Christians have not been keeping on the watch there are many things that they have missed and need to catch up with,

The weed Christian will never catch up he has no desire to unless he revels the matter himself.

I use the last seven plagues as a maker because most of the plagues are obvious to most readers, regardless of their doctrines.

Most bible prophecy has a physical fulfilment before the spiritual one in this case the physical is easy to discern is it not.

Then that is the case if you are aware of the chem' trails poured into the air by the American air craft.
Jim

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?

-

When?
At which particular period in time?
During which dynasty?
During which riegn?

How many times do  I have to say this, James - I need specifics here...there have been many times whe Egypt was very rich - and many times when she was in abject poverty.
Are you experiencing difficulties with the word 'when'?
I'll define it for you...

"at which time".
Does that help?


You have to make your own date for what it ,matters as you have shown you prefer the knowledge of the world for you dates rather than the bibles time period.

Then again you could use the date in the time chart of the bible.which means it was just after 17 16


-
Wow"
I didn't know Joseph (or Moses, for that matter) knew so little about Egypt that they referred to the king of Egypt as 'Pharaoh' a thousand years BEFORE the title was used by the kings and the Egyptians themselves.
Would you care to offer an explanation?

You see, James, had the Pentateuch come down verbatum and unchanged from Moses, he would have been a very strange person.  
Here's a brief about kingly titulary:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/titles.htm
His account of Joseph talks about 'Pharaoh' - whic was a concept unknown in Egyptian literature in the 17th century BC, except in the case of Maatkare Hatshepsut, when the phrase 'per-aa' meaning 'Great house' was used to emphasise the unique nature of the female king in her mortury complex at Dier-el-Bahari (where no non Egyptian would ever be allowed).
The Joseph account also mentions 'money'.
THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS MONEY in the 17th century BC.
Indeed, the first coins were introduced into Egypt, in very small quantities, in the Saite period - by Greek mercenaries in the sixth century BC, which, by an astonishing coincidence, is when the term 'Pharaoh' became common, and most scholars believe the Pentateuch was rewritten and heavily edited to reach its familiar form.
Here's a link from the basic, but informative 'Tour Egypt' site regarding money in Egypt.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/prices.htm
Do you have issues with this statement?
If so, please challenge them giving EXTRA-SCRIPTURAL evidence.


-
Bumped.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Did Jehovah through Joseph make Egypt rich yes or no?

-

When?
At which particular period in time?
During which dynasty?
During which riegn?

How many times do  I have to say this, James - I need specifics here...there have been many times whe Egypt was very rich - and many times when she was in abject poverty.
Are you experiencing difficulties with the word 'when'?
I'll define it for you...

"at which time".
Does that help?


You have to make your own date for what it ,matters as you have shown you prefer the knowledge of the world for you dates rather than the bibles time period.

Then again you could use the date in the time chart of the bible.which means it was just after 17 16


-
Wow"
I didn't know Joseph (or Moses, for that matter) knew so little about Egypt that they referred to the king of Egypt as 'Pharaoh' a thousand years BEFORE the title was used by the kings and the Egyptians themselves.
Would you care to offer an explanation?

You see, James, had the Pentateuch come down verbatum and unchanged from Moses, he would have been a very strange person.  
Here's a brief about kingly titulary:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/titles.htm
His account of Joseph talks about 'Pharaoh' - whic was a concept unknown in Egyptian literature in the 17th century BC, except in the case of Maatkare Hatshepsut, when the phrase 'per-aa' meaning 'Great house' was used to emphasise the unique nature of the female king in her mortury complex at Dier-el-Bahari (where no non Egyptian would ever be allowed).
The Joseph account also mentions 'money'.
THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS MONEY in the 17th century BC.
Indeed, the first coins were introduced into Egypt, in very small quantities, in the Saite period - by Greek mercenaries in the sixth century BC, which, by an astonishing coincidence, is when the term 'Pharaoh' became common, and most scholars believe the Pentateuch was rewritten and heavily edited to reach its familiar form.
Here's a link from the basic, but informative 'Tour Egypt' site regarding money in Egypt.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/prices.htm
Do you have issues with this statement?
If so, please challenge them giving EXTRA-SCRIPTURAL evidence.


-
Bumped.


What's your point are you trying to say Egypt was not made rich by Jehovah because of a problem of their understanding of money?


Will you also say he did not reduce them to an inferior nation among the nations?
Jim

My point?
I'm trying - without much sucess - to get you to tell me just WHEN Egypt had money?
When Joseph was in Egypt?
When Moses existed?
Whether the Pentateuch was as Moses left it.
or whether the Pentateuch we know today was a heavily edited version in order to meet the needs of the time.

You seem totally incapable of answering simple questions, James.
The Bible is not divorced from history - or is it?

NOTE: You will, of course, note that I do not deny the exixtance of Moses, or indeed, Joseph.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
My point?
I'm trying - without much sucess - to get you to tell me just WHEN Egypt had money?
When Joseph was in Egypt?
When Moses existed?
Whether the Pentateuch was as Moses left it.
or whether the Pentateuch we know today was a heavily edited version in order to meet the needs of the time.

You seem totally incapable of answering simple questions, James.
The Bible is not divorced from history - or is it?

NOTE: You will, of course, note that I do not deny the exixtance of Moses, or indeed, Joseph.


They had more gold than they could manage and precious stones given to them from all the starving nations round about when Joseph was in charge when ever you think that was. What did the nations use for currency, to buy food with?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
My point?
I'm trying - without much sucess - to get you to tell me just WHEN Egypt had money?
When Joseph was in Egypt?
When Moses existed?
Whether the Pentateuch was as Moses left it.
or whether the Pentateuch we know today was a heavily edited version in order to meet the needs of the time.

You seem totally incapable of answering simple questions, James.
The Bible is not divorced from history - or is it?

NOTE: You will, of course, note that I do not deny the exixtance of Moses, or indeed, Joseph.


They had more gold than they could manage and precious stones given to them from all the starving nations round about when Joseph was in charge when ever you think that was. What did the nations use for currency, to buy food with?



wHEN?
When was this?
Which 'starving nations'?
There WERE no nation states south of Egypt...do you mean Wawat? Kush? Ta-abnet?
These were not nations as we understand them in Middle and New Kingdom times. At best they were a loose confederation of semi-Egyptianised cultures which gathered together for a few years.
Not until the rise of the KUSHITE kings from what is now Sudan did they become powerful enough to rule Egypt for about a century (forming dyn XXV...the so-called 'black Pharaohs')
Their culture remained ,ore or less Egyptianised till the fourth century AD.
So when was this time when Egypt was so rich, James?
When was Joseph in Egypt?
JamesJah

Genesis 41:38-41
So Phar′aoh said to his servants: “Can another man be found like this one in whom there is the spirit of God?” Phar′aoh then said to Joseph: “Since God has caused you to know all of this, there is no one as discreet and wise as you. You will personally be over my house, and all my people will obey you implicitly. Only in my role as king will I be greater than you.


When was this that was the time ok?
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:122162"]
Jim wrote:
My point?
I'm trying - without much sucess - to get you to tell me just WHEN Egypt had money?
When Joseph was in Egypt?
When Moses existed?
Whether the Pentateuch was as Moses left it.
or whether the Pentateuch we know today was a heavily edited version in order to meet the needs of the time.

You seem totally incapable of answering simple questions, James.
The Bible is not divorced from history - or is it?

NOTE: You will, of course, note that I do not deny the exixtance of Moses, or indeed, Joseph.


They had more gold than they could manage and precious stones given to them from all the starving nations round about


-
You will be able to back up this statement with facts.
You can substantiate your claims with archaeology.
You can supply a time when this happened....can't uou?
-
when Joseph was in charge when ever you think that was. What did the nations use for currency, to buy food with?
-
Never mind when I think that was.
I'm asking YOU to tell me when YOU think that was, James.
And, by the way, if you think gold and jewels acted as currency in Bronze Age trading transactions, your knowledge is simplistic in the extreme.
Egypt IMPORTED semi precious stones, she did NOT export them. What she DID export included sculpture (in stone or bronze, mainly), glassware (at which she excelled) luxury clothing, livestock and last, but certainly not least, people.
JamesJah

Moses in Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwnrjU67Dag
Sebastian Toe

JamesJah wrote:
Sebastian Toe wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Are you keeping on the watch?

What should you be looking for?

Keep on the watch for what exactly?

Are Christians keeping on the watch?

.



What are you looking for?


Wheat Christians
have you found many?
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:122164"]Genesis 41:38-41
So Phar′aoh said to his servants: “Can another man be found like this one in whom there is the spirit of God?” Phar′aoh then said to Joseph: “Since God has caused you to know all of this, there is no one as discreet and wise as you. You will personally be over my house, and all my people will obey you implicitly. Only in my role as king will I be greater than you.


When was this that was the time  

-
James: your answer speaks volumes for your organisation.

i'll ask again.
Without quoting scripture I already know, have read, and have, indeed, preached upon, please tell me WHEN either you or the organisation you belong to think the evets in the Joseph story took place.
Is that to complicated a question for you to answer?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Moses in Egypt  .

-
Ah, a version of history inspired by Cecil. B. De Mille!
James, this is NOT archaeological proof of anything.
I hate to burst your bubble...even the University of Tel Aviv - which has done more to debunk certain Biblical pseudohistorians than most - while at the same time using modern techniques, has managed to back up Biblical events in history, has debunked the events in your extremely simplistic biased overdramatised link.
Try again - with a serious link this time, please!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwnrjU67Dag
JamesJah

[quote="Jim:122169"]
JamesJah wrote:
Genesis 41:38-41
So Phar′aoh said to his servants: “Can another man be found like this one in whom there is the spirit of God?” Phar′aoh then said to Joseph: “Since God has caused you to know all of this, there is no one as discreet and wise as you. You will personally be over my house, and all my people will obey you implicitly. Only in my role as king will I be greater than you.


When was this that was the time  

-
James: your answer speaks volumes for your organisation.

i'll ask again.
Without quoting scripture I already know, have read, and have, indeed, preached upon, please tell me WHEN either you or the organisation you belong to think the evets in the Joseph story took place.
Is that to complicated a question for you to answer?


IIf you are glued to religious tradition there is not much one can say now is there?

1715bc was the time give in my other post and is the same now as then as to when Joseph was given authority over Egypt. ok that is according to the bible time line.

Has this come true for Egypt or not?

Isaiah 19:1-12
A pronouncement against Egypt: Look! Jehovah is riding on a swift cloud and is coming into Egypt. The worthless gods of Egypt will tremble before him,

And the heart of Egypt will melt within it.  

“I will incite Egyptians against Egyptians, And they will fight one another, Each against his brother and his neighbour, City against city, kingdom against kingdom.
Jim

Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?
cyberman

This is all over my head, but James - I think you've been schooled!
Jim

cyberman wrote:
This is all over my head, but James - I think you've been schooled!


Can I help it if I'm a geek?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?


Why do you think you are correct?

I so not make up the rules for this world so why should I prove you wrong?

The deme gods have control, and the one who gives them authority, who will soon be thrown into the abyss so that pleasant people can live in peace here on earth.or have you forgotten the promise that Jesus made?

Matthew 5:5
Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth. . .
cyberman

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?


Why do you think you are correct?.


I would guess that years of hard work, and years of studying the accumulated hard work of others, has led Jim to think he knows something about this. coupled with the availabilty of the evidence which clearly backs up this research. That's how we in the grown up world go about the business of knowing stuff, James
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
cyberman wrote:
This is all over my head, but James - I think you've been schooled!


Can I help it if I'm a geek?



When Moses came out of Egypt he was told that they could not have any of the gods of Egypt like the many trinities that they could have only the one God.

Only one other Egyptian taught such a thing did he not and what append to him???


The dates I gave you where taken from the Time Chart of Biblical History.

I do not think they happened to be privy to the information proffered by todays higher critics.
JamesJah

cyberman wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?


Why do you think you are correct?.


I would guess that years of hard work, and years of studying the accumulated hard work of others, has led Jim to think he knows something about this. coupled with the availabilty of the evidence which clearly backs up this research. That's how we in the grown up world go about the business of knowing stuff, James


Are they not still looking for evidence of the Hebrew nation being in Egypt?
JamesJah

JamesJah wrote:
Moses in Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwnrjU67Dag


Did you miss this one?
cyberman

JamesJah wrote:
cyberman wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?


Why do you think you are correct?.


I would guess that years of hard work, and years of studying the accumulated hard work of others, has led Jim to think he knows something about this. coupled with the availabilty of the evidence which clearly backs up this research. That's how we in the grown up world go about the business of knowing stuff, James


Are they not still looking for evidence of the Hebrew nation being in Egypt?


Dunno. Why do you ask?
JamesJah

cyberman wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
cyberman wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Righty-ho, James.
You cite 1750 BC as the time of Joseph in Egypt.
Let's start by showing the error in the editors of the Pentateuch, shall we?
No Egyptian king used ' pharaoh' as part of their titulary. It simply does not appear on any of the numerous inscriptions of that time.
Please prove me wrong, James.
2. There was no king of a united Egypt at that time - several rulers ruled various parts of Egypt.

THe principle line ruled from Ij-Tawy, and at 1750, this was
Sekhemre Khuttawy Sobekhotep II (also identified as Amenemhet VII).
Since this was the Second Intermediate period, we know little of these monarchs...however, we DO have details of his vizier of the south - Khnumhotep. We even have his tomb and sarcophagus - it's on display at Luxor museum.
Sobekhotep himself seems to have acted as his own vizier of the north...so there was NO vizier of a united Egypt.
Mow, the later thirteenth dynasty is very poorly understood ...Sobekhotep's father - or even his son - may have ruled. But the point is that these monarchs were very weak, ephemeral rulers of small territories - not the great kings of the earlier Middle Kingdom or later New Kingdom. They had little authority - nomarchs such as the aforementioned Khnumhotep were more powerful in their own areas than the kings.
With me so far, James?
OK:
3. At the same time as Sobkhotep II, another Egyptian,
Aasehre Nehesy, ruled as king in the Western Delta - using the full titles of kingship.
4. Semitic immigrants were already in the Eastern Delta, setting up a mini kingdom, with Egyptian titles - such as  Imira-Mesha or
Mayebre Sheshi.
So, no king of all Egypt, James.
Let's muddy the waters even more, shall we?
This very year, a whole new family of kings who ruled at Abdju (Abydos) was found - each with their own full titulary - google Woseribre Senebkay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senebkay

So four kings ruling various bits of Egypt, James.
None of them using the title 'Pharaoh'.
Not exactly a land of plenty, then. A land of civil unrest, famine, war and division - in no position to help nieghbouring states out when it came to famine relief, especially as we know from tomb stelae that a series of low Nile floods had made Egypt's OWN harvests poor for well over a decade from c1760-1745.

Care to try another date?


Why do you think you are correct?.


I would guess that years of hard work, and years of studying the accumulated hard work of others, has led Jim to think he knows something about this. coupled with the availabilty of the evidence which clearly backs up this research. That's how we in the grown up world go about the business of knowing stuff, James


Are they not still looking for evidence of the Hebrew nation being in Egypt?


Dunno. Why do you ask?


Because most of modern so called experts say they where not.
cyberman

JamesJah wrote:
cyberman wrote:
JamesJah wrote:


Are they not still looking for evidence of the Hebrew nation being in Egypt?


Dunno. Why do you ask?


Because most of modern so called experts say they where not.


And...?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
cyberman wrote:
This is all over my head, but James - I think you've been schooled!


Can I help it if I'm a geek?



When Moses came out of Egypt he was told that they could not have any of the gods of Egypt like the many trinities that they could have only the one God.
-
Yep.
But there are no 'trinities' in the convoluted Egyptian religion.
Do you mean triads - groups of three netjeru (gods)?
Such as
RE-Isis-Osiris?
Amun-mut-Khonsu?
Aten-Akhenaten-Nefertiti?
Isis-Osiris-Horakhty?
Geb-Osiris-Set?

...and there's more.....
Here's a link for a very crude understanding...hope this helps.
http://www.landofpyramids.org/triads-egyptian-gods.htm
-

Only one other Egyptian taught such a thing did he not and what append to him???

-
If you mean Neferkheperure Akhenaten, James,  his monotheism is nowhere near as clear cut as school textbooks would lead you to believe. For a start, his 'throne name' - the name which was on all official inscriptions - 'Neferkheperure' harks to the religion the romantic historians claim he destroyed.
Second, while he was ruling at Akhetaten, his wife, Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, ruled at Thebes...restoring the religion Akhenaten was supposed to be destroying.
Thirdly, his skeletal remains are now identified by DNA as those of the body in KV 55 - and the cause of death seems natural.
Have you someone else in mind?


The dates I gave you where taken from the Time Chart of Biblical History.
-
And they are in error.
My dates come from the excellent "Chronical of the Pharaohs" (Thames & Hudson)
or I can highly recommend "The complete Royal Families of Egypt" (Thames & Hudson) co-authored by a friend of mine, Aiden Dodson.
Given his immense talent as an excavator, linguist, translator and historian, I'd take the research he has done and the extensive bibliographic research, as sound footing.
Other, basically simily, chronologies are available, but they vary by about ten or twenty years as you go backward in time.
-

I do not think they happened to be privy to the information proffered by todays higher critics.

-
Especially as all the evidence points to the heavy editing of the Pentateuch in the sixth or fifth century BC, thus making it reliable as Scripture, but questionable as a historical account.
JamesJah

What has reliable got to do with the meek inheriting the earth?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLM2-q1edY

What the unreliable Beeb has to say on planet X or Unaru????
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:122207"]What has reliable got to do with the meek inheriting the earth?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLM2-q1edY

What the unreliable Beeb has to say on planet X or Unaru????



-
Diversionary tactic noted.
And ignored as irrelevent to the thread.

Oh, by the way, for material on the so-called monotheism of Akhenaten, try
https://www.academia.edu/8659460/Who_Was_Akhenaten_2004_

Nick Reeves is a well known authority on the Amarna Period, having excavated at both Amarna and Thebes, and written extensively on the subject.
JamesJah

[quote="Jim:122208"]
JamesJah wrote:
What has reliable got to do with the meek inheriting the earth?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLM2-q1edY

What the unreliable Beeb has to say on planet X or Unaru????



-
Diversionary tactic noted.
And ignored as irrelevent to the thread.

Oh, by the way, for material on the so-called monotheism of Akhenaten, try
https://www.academia.edu/8659460/Who_Was_Akhenaten_2004_

Nick Reeves is a well known authority on the Amarna Period, having excavated at both Amarna and Thebes, and written extensively on the subject.


Is he an expert on bible prophecy and that is the will of the Almighty God?

The end time prophecies is what this thread has been started on.

Prophecies such as these.

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken

(Malachi 3:18
You will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him

Revelation 6:12
.the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood,
Jim

Nope. Like many of the authors I've quoted, Reeves is a Christian, James.

I note you are abandoning the stuff YOU started with a mention of Egypt.
This is presumably because you are unable to respond with credible evidence to back up your points.
Why does that not surprise me?
If you think I'm going to waste my time answering your inverted pseudotheology based on flawed thinking from unqualified sources in Brooklyn, think again.
Anyway, why on earth SHOULD I respond when your lack of response to my posts speaks volumes for the paucity of your argument?
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Nope. Like many of the authors I've quoted, Reeves is a Christian, James.

I note you are abandoning the stuff YOU started with a mention of Egypt.
This is presumably because you are unable to respond with credible evidence to back up your points.
Why does that not surprise me?
If you think I'm going to waste my time answering your inverted pseudotheology based on flawed thinking from unqualified sources in Brooklyn, think again.
Anyway, why on earth SHOULD I respond when your lack of response to my posts speaks volumes for the paucity of your argument?




The only thing Egypt will be doing in the end times is fighting with itself according to the scripture I gave you so we have reality before us instead of intellectual speculation which is of no use to any one.
Jim

Speculation?
I'm not the one doing the speculating, James.
I've given you information on conditions on First and Second Intermediate Period Egypt, and the Amarna era...all backed up with a multitude of evidence.
YOU'RE the one offering a date - or a series of events - without a shred of tangible evidence to support it.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Speculation?
I'm not the one doing the speculating, James.
I've given you information on conditions on First and Second Intermediate Period Egypt, and the Amarna era...all backed up with a multitude of evidence.
YOU'RE the one offering a date - or a series of events - without a shred of tangible evidence to support it.


And exactly what did your dates do for you?

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Speculation?
I'm not the one doing the speculating, James.
I've given you information on conditions on First and Second Intermediate Period Egypt, and the Amarna era...all backed up with a multitude of evidence.
YOU'RE the one offering a date - or a series of events - without a shred of tangible evidence to support it.


And exactly what did your dates do for you?

-
Set the chronology of a three thousand year old civilisation in context.
-

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?


-
This statement shows either
A) that you have not read my posts, dealing with the massive fluctuations in the Egyptian state - especially during the date YOU - not I - postulate for the Joseph story;
or
B) you have stuck your fingwers in your ears and refuse to even contemplate the evidence, in which case your faith is based on sand.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Speculation?
I'm not the one doing the speculating, James.
I've given you information on conditions on First and Second Intermediate Period Egypt, and the Amarna era...all backed up with a multitude of evidence.
YOU'RE the one offering a date - or a series of events - without a shred of tangible evidence to support it.


And exactly what did your dates do for you?

-
Set the chronology of a three thousand year old civilisation in context.
-

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?


-
This statement shows either
A) that you have not read my posts, dealing with the massive fluctuations in the Egyptian state - especially during the date YOU - not I - postulate for the Joseph story;
or
B) you have stuck your fingwers in your ears and refuse to even contemplate the evidence, in which case your faith is based on sand.


I have post my authority for my date where is yours?

This site is more appropriate

http://nglreturns.myfreeforum.org/about4615.html
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Speculation?
I'm not the one doing the speculating, James.
I've given you information on conditions on First and Second Intermediate Period Egypt, and the Amarna era...all backed up with a multitude of evidence.
YOU'RE the one offering a date - or a series of events - without a shred of tangible evidence to support it.


And exactly what did your dates do for you?

-
Set the chronology of a three thousand year old civilisation in context.
-

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?


-
This statement shows either
A) that you have not read my posts, dealing with the massive fluctuations in the Egyptian state - especially during the date YOU - not I - postulate for the Joseph story;
or
B) you have stuck your fingwers in your ears and refuse to even contemplate the evidence, in which case your faith is based on sand.


I have post my authority for my date where is yours?

-
Archaeology, consisting of epigraphy, excavation notes, artefacts, statuary, inscriptions, carbon dated organic remains, sculptures, tombs, temple remains....
not to mention the scholarly work of many Egyptologists, both Christian and non Christian.

This site is more appropriate

http://nglreturns.myfreeforum.org/about4615.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWCRliG4Rg
JamesJah

[And exactly what did your dates do for you Jim?

-
Set the chronology of a three thousand year old civilisation in context.
-

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?[/quote]

-
This statement shows either
A) that you have not read my posts, dealing with the massive fluctuations in the Egyptian state - especially during the date YOU - not I - postulate for the Joseph story;
or
B) you have stuck your fingwers in your ears and refuse to even contemplate the evidence, in which case your faith is based on sand.[/quote]

I have post my authority for my date where is yours?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWCRliG4Rg[/quote][/quote]

The thing about a tribe that records its history with dates their history has to be more reliable because every thing has to run concurrent, as in Hebrew history, this make it more reliable than speculated history.

So what is your point?

How many trinities did the Egyptians have?
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
[And exactly what did your dates do for you Jim?

-
Set the chronology of a three thousand year old civilisation in context.
-

Did they help you to see who made Egypt rich?


-
This statement shows either
A) that you have not read my posts, dealing with the massive fluctuations in the Egyptian state - especially during the date YOU - not I - postulate for the Joseph story;
or
B) you have stuck your fingwers in your ears and refuse to even contemplate the evidence, in which case your faith is based on sand.[/quote]

I have post my authority for my date where is yours?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugWCRliG4Rg[/quote][/quote]

The thing about a tribe that records its history with dates their history has to be more reliable because every thing has to run concurrent, as in Hebrew history, this make it more reliable than speculated history.
-
What "speculated history", James?
The history and archaeology of Egypt is better researched and documented than that of any other ancient civilisation.
-

So what is your point?
-
That you have consistantly failed to answer my points with any tangible evdence to refute them other than oversensationalised biased dumbed down videos.
-

How many trinities did the Egyptians have?[/quote]
-
Haven't you even bothered to READ my posts, James?
The answer is NONE.
Which part of the word NONE are you experiencing difficulties in understanding?
JamesJah

Jims quote>>
[quote]
Haven't you even bothered to READ my posts, James?
The answer is NONE.
Which part of the word NONE are you experiencing difficulties in understanding?
p/quote]


Wrong answer gop to the back of the class
Jim

[quote="JamesJah:122238"]Jims quote>>
Quote:

Haven't you even bothered to READ my posts, James?
The answer is NONE.
Which part of the word NONE are you experiencing difficulties in understanding?



Wrong answer gop to the back of the class



-
You won't read it, but here's a paper on Egyptian triads.
http://www.academia.edu/3638694/Divine_Triads_of_Ancient_Egypt
JamesJah

[quote="Jim:122239"]
JamesJah wrote:
Jims quote>>
Quote:

Haven't you even bothered to READ my posts, James?
The answer is NONE.
Which part of the word NONE are you experiencing difficulties in understanding?
p/quote]


Wrong answer gop to the back of the class



-
You won't read it, but here's a paper on Egyptian triads.
http://www.academia.edu/3638694/Divine_Triads_of_Ancient_Egypt


I know Egypt had triads I am convinced it is you that still has the problem with them is it not?
Jim

Yes.
I'll admit it.
Ihave problems with the Egyptian religion.
Mind you, I don't know any Egyptologist who has studied the field who does NOT!
What was once thought as 'received' standard Egyptian religion was no such thing...it was standardised under the GREEKS and Romans.
The Egyptians themselves had NO such standardised religion.
For example, take Khonsu.
He was the son of Amun and Mut, and was the third member of the Theban triad.
At one and the same time, though he was part of two OTHER triads!
Or Herakhty. (Greek Horus).
He was part of at least four triads.
Or Re - the sun god...as part of the syncretic view of religion, while being supposedly a seperate personage, he was combined with other gods...hence Amun-Re. Sobek-RE, Re-Horakhty, Re-Ptah, etc.
Or take creation.
Dependant on the period of history - and the place, ruling family, etc, there have been at least EIGHT creation myths in Egyptian history, some of them running concurrently.
Creator gods have included
Atum
Geb
Re
Amun (in ithyphallic form)
Min
& Nut.
That list is not exhaustive.
So...confused?
Jim

[quote="Jim:122241"]Yes.
I'll admit it.
Ihave problems with the Egyptian religion.
Mind you, I don't know any Egyptologist who has studied the field who does NOT!
What was once thought as 'received' standard Egyptian religion was no such thing...it was standardised under the GREEKS and Romans.
The Egyptians themselves had NO such standardised religion.
For example, take Khonsu.
He was the son of Amun and Mut, and was the third member of the Theban triad.
At one and the same time, though he was part of two OTHER triads!
Or Herakhty. (Greek Horus).
He was part of at least four triads.
Or Re - the sun god...as part of the syncretic view of religion, while being supposedly a seperate personage, he was combined with other gods...hence Amun-Re. Sobek-RE, Re-Horakhty, Re-Ptah, etc.
Or take creation.
Dependant on the period of history - and the place, ruling family, etc, there have been at least EIGHT creation myths in Egyptian history, some of them running concurrently.
Creator gods have included
Atum
Geb
Re
Amun (in ithyphallic form)
Min
& Nut.
That list is not exhaustive.
So...confused?
Another link you won't read gives a very basic outline of the varied strands in religious thought...
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptreligion.html
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Yes.
I'll admit it.
Ihave problems with the Egyptian religion.
Mind you, I don't know any Egyptologist who has studied the field who does NOT!
What was once thought as 'received' standard Egyptian religion was no such thing...it was standardised under the GREEKS and Romans.
The Egyptians themselves had NO such standardised religion.
For example, take Khonsu.
He was the son of Amun and Mut, and was the third member of the Theban triad.
At one and the same time, though he was part of two OTHER triads!
Or Herakhty. (Greek Horus).
He was part of at least four triads.
Or Re - the sun god...as part of the syncretic view of religion, while being supposedly a seperate personage, he was combined with other gods...hence Amun-Re. Sobek-RE, Re-Horakhty, Re-Ptah, etc.
Or take creation.
Dependant on the period of history - and the place, ruling family, etc, there have been at least EIGHT creation myths in Egyptian history, some of them running concurrently.
Creator gods have included
Atum
Geb
Re
Amun (in ithyphallic form)
Min
& Nut.
That list is not exhaustive.
So...confused?


One thing about humans is that they are born without knowledge.

The Christian can move into the light if he learns that he can trust his creator.

That is why I am a follower of Christ and not a follower of Russell, because it is he that teaches his followers if they take the time to read Gods word.

Most of us need help along the way just as the Ethiopian did.

Acts 8:30-33
Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?”

 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him.

Now this was the passage of Scripture that he was reading: “Like a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and like a lamb that is silent before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth. During his humiliation, justice was taken away from him. Who will tell the details of his generation? Because his life is taken away from the earth.”

Acts 8:34, 35
The eunuch then said to Philip: “I beg you, about whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about some other man?” Philip began to speak, and starting with this scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus. . .



Daniel 12:4
As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant. 
Jim

Nice text.
Diddly squat to do with the thread, but nice text.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Nice text.
Diddly squat to do with the thread, but nice text.


Perhaps I should have used this one first?


Psalm 146:3-6
Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.  His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.  Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,  The Maker of heaven and earth, Of the sea, and of all that is in them, The One keeping trueness to time indefinite. . .
Jim

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Nice text.
Diddly squat to do with the thread, but nice text.


Perhaps I should have used this one first?


Psalm 146:3-6
Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.  His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.  Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,  The Maker of heaven and earth, Of the sea, and of all that is in them, The One keeping trueness to time indefinite. . .


-Nope.
Still irelevent to the thread.
JamesJah

What is the fear inspiring say of Jehovah?

When can we expect it?


Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Have the last of the last seven plagues of Revelation finished or not?
Chicken Mamma

JamesJah wrote:
What is the fear inspiring say of Jehovah?

When can we expect it?


Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Have the last of the last seven plagues of Revelation finished or not?


Nope, they've not even started yet.
JamesJah

Chicken Mamma wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
What is the fear inspiring say of Jehovah?

When can we expect it?


Joel 2:30-32
I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe. 

Have the last of the last seven plagues of Revelation finished or not?


Nope, they've not even started yet.


So what different things are we to see from these scriptures that we have not seen already?

Revelation 16:8, 9
.The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and to the sun it was granted to scorch the people with fire. And the people were scorched by the great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent and give glory to him.


Revelation 16:15
.Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.

Revelation 16:17
.The seventh one poured out his bowl on the air. At this a loud voice came out of the sanctuary from the throne, saying: “It has come to pass!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4wNG35TYYU

You will not be able to miss what comes next or will you?
Jim

You'll not that when he is either unwilling or unable to respond to a discussion, James goes back to apocalyptic mumbo hjumbo.
(That's the way he seems to approach the apocalyptic literature in Scripture, anyway)
JamesJah

1 Timothy 1:5-7
Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.



Christians believe in one Almighty God Ruler of the universe one mighty god mediator between the Almighty God and man, and in the power of Holy spirit which searches into all things.

Acts 2:38, 39
Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit. 39 

Romans 8:16
The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Romans 8:27
But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.

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