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LeClerc

The New World Translation

Hi all

A couple of questions.

How many times does the English word ''Gentile'' appear in the New World Translation ?

and

Do those who assemble in Kingdom Halls all over the world refer to themselves as Gentiles ?



LeClerc
Jim

Re: The New World Translation

Hi, LeClerc.
Before we even start to analyse the mistranslation, we are faced with two problems for starters.
1. If we are to take a serious look at the text, we have to examine the provenance of the text and the reason for its' translation.
(where do we even START on this one? )
and
2. the qualifications, abilities, motivation and identities of the translators......
Ah - failed there as well. Unlikwe almost every major translation, revision, or paraphrase, the authors, translators, revisors and methodologies used in the production of the work are known.
Whereas in the NWT - they aren't.
They were probably too ashamed of their (let's be charitable) errors.
bnabernard

Re: The New World Translation

Jim wrote:
Hi, LeClerc.
Before we even start to analyse the mistranslation, we are faced with two problems for starters.
1. If we are to take a serious look at the text, we have to examine the provenance of the text and the reason for its' translation.
(where do we even START on this one? )
and
2. the qualifications, abilities, motivation and identities of the translators......
Ah - failed there as well. Unlikwe almost every major translation, revision, or paraphrase, the authors, translators, revisors and methodologies used in the production of the work are known.
Whereas in the NWT - they aren't.
They were probably too ashamed of their (let's be charitable) errors.


To understand 'Gentile' one has to go back to the sons of Noah  

Then understand just what the score was at that point in time  

bernard (hug)
Jim

Re: The New World Translation

Sorry, Bernie;
I can't agree with your starting point.
I'd say the starting point was the motivation, methodology, abilities and qualifications of those who translated the NWT.
Honey 56

Re: The New World Translation

Quote:
"bnabernard:80286"].


To understand 'Gentile' one has to go back to the sons of Noah  

Then understand just what the score was at that point in time  

bernard (hug)


That is very interesting, could you explain how you arrive at these ideas(perhaps some scriptures) ?

Thanks

Honey
Honey 56

Re: The New World Translation

Jim wrote:
Hi, LeClerc.
Before we even start to analyse the mistranslation, we are faced with two problems for starters.
1. If we are to take a serious look at the text, we have to examine the provenance of the text and the reason for its' translation.
(where do we even START on this one? )
and
2. the qualifications, abilities, motivation and identities of the translators......
Ah - failed there as well. Unlikwe almost every major translation, revision, or paraphrase, the authors, translators, revisors and methodologies used in the production of the work are known.
Whereas in the NWT - they aren't.
They were probably too ashamed of their (let's be charitable) errors.


Hi  Jim,

A good place to start is with a Kingdom Interlinear translation, the text in the original language is ok as far as I know, but, you can see the liberties that the WTBTS have taken when it is translated into the english.
LeClerc tells me that there are two versions of these one must have been ammended, so the WTBTS must have realised that some of the translation in the original did not quite fit in with their doctrines (is that new light?) I think some JW are probably not even aware that there have been two versions of these printed.

Honey
Jim

Re: The New World Translation

Yes, Honey.
The KIT is regarded with indifference at best - but with extreme suspicion at worst - by most serious scholars.
Yet even the KIT is ignored in several cases by those who mistranslated the NWT.
Their standard of both linguistic and translatory abilities is shockingly bad at best, and abysmally suspect at worst.

    The other, dreadfully duplicitous move on behalf of that "faithful slave" ( supersised sarcastic smiley ) was to take quotes from very reputable Biblical scholars out of context and publish them as endorsements for their mistranslations, when even a cursory reading of what the scholars actually SAID would leave the average reader in no doubt ast to their low opinion of the mistranslation.
Yet, as usual, the gullible acolytes who worship the Watchtower are told how fantastic a work it is.
If this weren't so evil, it would be farcical.
Honey 56

Hi LeClerc,
I really hope that some JW's will tackle this question, it is an important one, and I suspect it centres around who today is regarded as 'Israel'
I know the Roman Catholic church and even some none catholic churches believe that they are now God's chosen and I also suspect that the WTBTS would hold this belief themselves (only from certain comments made by some JW's in passing)

This belief has had a devastating effect on the Jewish people n recent history, especially during the second world war.

It would be interesting to explore what the bible teaches about this, do you think?

Honey
bnabernard

Re: The New World Translation

Jim wrote:
Sorry, Bernie;
I can't agree with your starting point.
I'd say the starting point was the motivation, methodology, abilities and qualifications of those who translated the NWT.


I would have to agree with you considering the wording of the questions raised by Leclerc, I was perhaps undersighted by the flag for anyone to give an opinion when realy anyone is not those involed and qualified to answer the question.

So there you go I was carried away in the moment and started to examine myself rather than examine the proper nature of the question, I obviously am not qualified to answer.

I shall myself return to my own studies regarding the time of Noah and the brother who was appointed to attend rather than be part of and the brother who became cursed, while bearing in mind the reason for the flood, the habitat of the 'demons' post flood (what a huge number there must have been for a legion to be cast out in one casting) the nature behind the building of the tower, and other relevent details that wheot transcribed but where passed on in oral tradition till they were transcribed in the apocraphia.

So I'll let you each continue in your quest to find what you have set your sights on, I on the other hand will continue to seek the truth for my own sake, lest I be held up on a corner gossiping about something that does not concern me.

Do'nt hang on the corner to long as it might delay your own journey.

bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Dear bernard.
I asked you honestly for your opinion on this thread, because I was interested in your answer.

I can't understand why or how you have taken such umbrage?

Most of us fully admit that we learn a great deal from each other, if you don't wish to be part of this, well it is sad, but you have to do what you have to do.

As for the comment  about gossip, I for one would appreciate an explanation, you can't throw things like that about without a very good reason.

Honey
bnabernard

Honey 56 wrote:
Dear bernard.
I asked you honestly for your opinion on this thread, because I was interested in your answer.

I can't understand why or how you have taken such umbrage?

Most of us fully admit that we learn a great deal from each other, if you don't wish to be part of this, well it is sad, but you have to do what you have to do.

As for the comment  about gossip, I for one would appreciate an explanation, you can't throw things like that about without a very good reason.

Honey


 Is that what they call second thinking, one thing that I have learnt from marridge and several relationships is that if there is a wrong end of a stick a woman has a peculiar knack in  grabbing hold of it.
As for the gossip this is when people with a log in their eye stand and discuss the log in the other persons eye. Subsequently the temple never gets built because there is to much of the knocking down of the other blokes building rather than a building of ones own.
Myself I'm after shifting the log in me own

Jim did you get the impression I had some form of 'unbrage' or was I just using the oppotunity to get a message across when I replied to 'your' post.



bernard (hug)
Honey 56

Quote:
"bnabernard:80315"]


 Is that what they call second thinking, one thing that I have learnt from marridge and several relationships is that if there is a wrong end of a stick a woman has a peculiar knack in  grabbing hold of it.
As for the gossip this is when people with a log in their eye stand and discuss the log in the other persons eye. Subsequently the temple never gets built because there is to much of the knocking down of the other blokes building rather than a building of ones own.
Myself I'm after shifting the log in me own

Jim did you get the impression I had some form of 'unbrage' or was I just using the oppotunity to get a message across when I replied to 'your' post.



bernard (hug)


I don't think that I did get the wrong end of the stick, perhaps I just don't fully understand your style of posting, or the way that you rarely answer a question directly, you and James have that in common I think.

I am sorry if you did not wish me to reply to 'Jims' post
this comment of yours....

Quote:
shall myself return to my own studies regarding the time of Noah and the brother who was appointed to attend rather than be part of and the brother who became cursed, while bearing in mind the reason for the flood, the habitat of the 'demons' post flood (what a huge number there must have been for a legion to be cast out in one casting) the nature behind the building of the tower, and other relevent details that wheot transcribed but where passed on in oral tradition till they were transcribed in the apocraphia.


In which you mention the time of Noah kind of gave the impression that you were responding to my post as well.

Still not to worry.
Have a good day.

Honey
Jim

As a man, I'm thick skinned  - or thick ( Delete as apropriate ).
I didn't see anything wrong in your post, Bernie.
Just your usual, loveable self!
bnabernard

(laughing) I'll have to wonder now if my idea of my lovable self is the same as yours Jim.(smile) (hug)

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Jim and Honey.

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,
I really hope that some JW's will tackle this question, it is an important one, and I suspect it centres around who today is regarded as 'Israel'
I know the Roman Catholic church and even some none catholic churches believe that they are now God's chosen and I also suspect that the WTBTS would hold this belief themselves (only from certain comments made by some JW's in passing)

This belief has had a devastating effect on the Jewish people n recent history, especially during the second world war.

It would be interesting to explore what the bible teaches about this, do you think?

Honey


Yes agree 100%,  to explore what scripture teaches about this, I believe, would be very fruitful.

I see no reponse from James.

Will post opening question again

Hi all

A couple of questions.

How many times does the English word ''Gentile'' appear in the New World Translation ?

and

Do those who assemble in Kingdom Halls all over the world refer to themselves as Gentiles ?



LeClerc
Honey 56

LeClerc wrote:
Hi Jim and Honey.

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,
I really hope that some JW's will tackle this question, it is an important one, and I suspect it centres around who today is regarded as 'Israel'
I know the Roman Catholic church and even some none catholic churches believe that they are now God's chosen and I also suspect that the WTBTS would hold this belief themselves (only from certain comments made by some JW's in passing)

This belief has had a devastating effect on the Jewish people n recent history, especially during the second world war.

It would be interesting to explore what the bible teaches about this, do you think?

Honey


Yes agree 100%,  to explore what scripture teaches about this, I believe, would be very fruitful.

I see no reponse from James.

Will post opening question again

Hi all

A couple of questions.

How many times does the English word ''Gentile'' appear in the New World Translation ?

and

Do those who assemble in Kingdom Halls all over the world refer to themselves as Gentiles ?



LeClerc


Honey 56

Hi LeClerc,
No response from any JW's?

Can you perhaps tell us what you may have discovered regarding this topic.

I am very interested to hear it  

Honey
LeClerc

Morning Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,
No response from any JW's?

Can you perhaps tell us what you may have discovered regarding this topic.

I am very interested to hear it  

Honey


Will get back to you on this one in the meantime still no response from any JW.

LeClerc

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