Archive for nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Nglreturns is a forum to discuss religion, philosophy, ethics etc...

NGLReturns Daily Quiz - Play here!
 



       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Farmer Geddon

The Reason for the Season:

What is the Real Reason for the Season?















































































































Link
Honey 56

Immanuel, God with us.

Honey

PS I think I may be related to your goat.  
Shaker

23.5 degrees of earth's axial tilt.

Obviously  
IvyOwl

Shaker wrote:
23.5 degrees of earth's axial tilt.

Obviously  


Exactly .. you got in before me Shaker (I had to go and look up the precise degree of tilt). So it's the moon holding us steady. How did the moon get there? Still being discussed I believe. The last I knew the impact theory was holding sway. If the moon wasn't there it would seem very unlikely that we'd be here as a wobbling Earth would mean a vastly chaotic climate so whatever evolved wouldn't be us at least as we are now.

If you mean the reason for 'celebrating' the season in the northern hemisphere? Well stands to reason we've reached the longest of nights and know from past experience that they'll be shortening from now on. That's something to make a fuss of surely? So a little bit of sun and moon worship seems to be in order.

I've heard that some rather quaint people believe that a god* of some description put the sun and moon and indeed us here. Making impossible rules this god got miffed, as he wanted only perfect beings to spend eternity with Him (they've even given this god a gender, well fancy that). So he provided a get out clause. (No not a Santa ... he's an add on, he came later)

Something about turning himself into his son and then being killed on a cross and going to hell. 'S ok though he came back alive again and went to heaven, so that's alright, and now all the people who believe the story will become the perfect beings to spend eternity with him.

Yeah yeah I know ... but some people do believe and they are mostly quite nice people so  let's not spoil their fun. Some of the songs they sing this time of the year are quite catchy I think there's a thread about them somewhere on here.

IO

*Apparently lots of different creator god/creation myths available but the one I wrote about is the one I know most about as the followers of that one shout the loudest. They mean well, the myth makes them happy and they want us to be happy as well. Well we don't want them to be unhappy so let's not go on too much about it just being a myth eh? Spechly at this time of year when it's 'happy birthday' time for this god.
cyberman

Ivy,

What an elaborate way of going about telling us that your guess is different from ours!
IvyOwl

cyberman wrote:
Ivy,

What an elaborate way of going about telling us that your guess is different from ours!


Don't know that I wrote down any guesses of my own did I? Just made observations of various theories/myths.

However I will admit that I do find that Christians trying to claim sole celebration rights at this time of year a tad tedious. Each to his/her own whatever feels right but no one set of believers should impose on the other. IMHO

IO
cyberman

IvyOwl wrote:

Don't know that I wrote down any guesses of my own did I?


No, you didn't. But you nevertheless let us know that your guess was different from ours.


IvyOwl wrote:

However I will admit that I do find that Christians trying to claim sole celebration rights at this time of year a tad tedious. Each to his/her own whatever feels right but no one set of believers should impose on the other. IMHO

IO


I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.
The Boyg

cyberman wrote:
I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.

You should come over to R&E and read some of Bashful Anthony's posts then.
Shaker

The Boyg wrote:
cyberman wrote:
I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.

You should come over to R&E and read some of Bashful Anthony's posts then.

Quelle surprise.
cyberman

The Boyg wrote:
cyberman wrote:
I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.

You should come over to R&E and read some of Bashful Anthony's posts then.


Oh good ol' Basher! Really, does he say non-Christians must not celebrate at this time of year? Even if they have other reasons to celebrate, like Hannukah, or a good old piss-up with Cousin Derek who you only see every year or two? If he says so, he is a silly arse.
Shaker

I'm not surprised that some people don't see conviviality, shared feasting and drinking, gift-giving and receiving, keeping up with friends and family one may not have contacted for a long time, the emphasis on peace, goodwill, forgiveness and reconciliation and the psychological benefits of a festival of warmth, light and colour at the drabbest time of the year to be sufficient warrant all by themselves.

Unfortunately there are some inherently grudging and joyless people around.

Meanwhile: it's an interesting question as to how the non-religious (by that term I mean definitely non-practising and very likely non-believing majority) celebrate what a decided minority like to claim as their own exclusively religious festival of one specific religious tradition - and this in spite of the fact that there's mountainous evidence that this latter viewpoint is a colossal error. For myself I don't think there's anything intrinsically Christian about the way I celebrate Christmas as I've never considered that I'm celebrating Christmas: rather a midwinter festival. I don't send religiously-themed cards (although I would if I knew that I was sending such a card to a Christian, because it would be for their benefit and not for mine and would indicate that I had pitched the card appropriately at the recipient). I was absolutely agog to see BA, over at R&E, actually claim that for an atheist to receive a religiously-themed card (remember: not send, but receive) somehow implies that the aforementioned atheist is taking part in the religious side of Christmas. I mean, where to start?

I like some Christmas carols because I love music and relish a really good tune regardless of its provenance - my abiding love of Indian classical music doesn't make me a Hindu or listening to some klezmer music makes me Jewish and anybody who argued thus would be considered rather strange. To me that seems akin to saying that listening to Wagner makes me German and supportive of Wagner's anti-semitic views  

Otherwise I regard Christmas/Yule/all-purpose nothern hemisphere midwinter festival to be about the things I outlined in the first paragraph.
cyberman

Shaker wrote:
I'm not surprised that some people don't see conviviality, shared feasting and drinking, gift-giving and receiving, keeping up with friends and family one may not have contacted for a long time, the emphasis on peace, goodwill, forgiveness and reconciliation and the psychological benefits of a festival of warmth, light and colour at the drabbest time of the year to be sufficient warrant all by themselves.


They are all excellent reasons for seasons!
I am happy to enjoy all of those things - it happens that, being a God-botherer, I am celebrating a major religious feast at the same time.

I do know what you mean, Ivy - when I was an atheist, I remember getting very irritated by Christians at Christmas time, wishing they'd shut up and let me enjoy my secular festivities.

I now think that was quite intolerant of me - we will be Christmassing with my atheist sister this year, and don't anticipate any conflict of what we want to do. I'm sure she won't miss us while we all slope off to mass in the morning, and apart from that we'll all be enjoying the day together.
Farmer Geddon

Sometimes the food can be so bland without a good dose of the season!!
The Boyg

cyberman wrote:
The Boyg wrote:
cyberman wrote:
I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.

You should come over to R&E and read some of Bashful Anthony's posts then.


Oh good ol' Basher! Really, does he say non-Christians must not celebrate at this time of year? Even if they have other reasons to celebrate, like Hannukah, or a good old piss-up with Cousin Derek who you only see every year or two? If he says so, he is a silly arse.


He certainly says that atheists who celebrate Christmas are hypocrites. Not exactly what you said, I suppose, but the sentiment is close enough.
Shaker

The Boyg wrote:
cyberman wrote:
The Boyg wrote:
cyberman wrote:
I have honestly never in my life come across a Christian suggesting that non-Christians have no right to celebrate at this time of year.

You should come over to R&E and read some of Bashful Anthony's posts then.


Oh good ol' Basher! Really, does he say non-Christians must not celebrate at this time of year? Even if they have other reasons to celebrate, like Hannukah, or a good old piss-up with Cousin Derek who you only see every year or two? If he says so, he is a silly arse.


He certainly says that atheists who celebrate Christmas are hypocrites. Not exactly what you said, I suppose, but the sentiment is close enough.


He should ask what atheists actually do at Christmastime and why - keeping in reserve what we actually know about the origins of what we regard as Christmas for when he starts getting silly  
Lexilogio

Actually - that's an interesting point.

DO we follow our beliefs - truly follow them - on Christmas?

I know we don't open any presents until we have been to Church. That's always been our family tradition. Church is always packed - and its wonderful to wish everyone a happy Christmas. In fact - I even enjoy the walk, as every dog walker, or person out for a stroll wishes you "Merry Christmas". Its the one time it feels like we are one big community.
Shaker

Lexilogio wrote:
In fact - I even enjoy the walk, as every dog walker, or person out for a stroll wishes you "Merry Christmas". Its the one time it feels like we are one big community.

Tsk. You should know as well as anyone that if you're a dogfather (or mother) you're an initiate of a brotherhood anyway - I've met more people in my neighbourhood through having a dog (especially a ridiculously cute one at that - always a talking point)* than at any other stage of my life, practically.

I'm absolutely not joking when I say that there are numerous people in my local area who I know by sight and always stop to talk to - and I know the name of the dog, but not them  

* Viz.:

IvyOwl

Quote:
I do know what you mean, Ivy - when I was an atheist, I remember getting very irritated by Christians at Christmas time, wishing they'd shut up and let me enjoy my secular festivities.


Oh I don't get irritated by Christians celebrating one of their religious festival at this time of year I just get irritated by certain of their number being proprietorial about it and not acknowledging that their festival overlaid previous ones.

My chief irritation at this time of year is with the great capitalist god who has subtely usurped everyones religious/spiritual celebration. I hate it that money gets all mixed up with love.

To be honest as someone will no slack in my budget whatsoever (retired on a tiny pension) I absolutely dread December. I'm not so thick skinned that I don't mind people thinking I'm a tight arsed git when the reality is I aint got no money to be tight arsed with!!! I am strong enough not to give in and put myself in debt but it's very wearing and I'd just as soon spend the season asleep in a cave high up in the mountains somewhere!

IO
Lexilogio

Shaker wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
In fact - I even enjoy the walk, as every dog walker, or person out for a stroll wishes you "Merry Christmas". Its the one time it feels like we are one big community.

Tsk. You should know as well as anyone that if you're a dogfather (or mother) you're an initiate of a brotherhood anyway - I've met more people in my neighbourhood through having a dog (especially a ridiculously cute one at that) than at any other stage of my life, practically.

I'm absolutely not joking when I say that there are numerous people in my local area who I know by sight and always stop to talk to - and I know the name of the dog, but not them  


 

Is that your dog? He is SO cute!
IvyOwl

Quote:
I'm absolutely not joking when I say that there are numerous people in my local area who I know by sight and always stop to talk to - and I know the name of the dog, but not them


Never had you down as the owner of a 'ridiculously cute dog' Shaker! You've gone up in my estimation ..... not that you were ever down of course  but you know what I mean.

I can relate to everything you said in the above paragraph. If I ever discover a bit of 'slack in my budget' I'll get another dog!

IO
Ketty

Shaker wrote:




Aw, that is one cute doggy.
Shaker

I spose so:





What were we talking about again?
IvyOwl

Shaker wrote:
I spose so:





What were we talking about again?


awwwwww she's goooorgeous.
I can read her mind *.. she's thinking:-

'Please send me for a holiday with that nice IvyOwl off your message board'

Now surely Shaker you can't say 'no' to her can you? Just look at those eyes!!

*My psychic powers don't run to gender so apologies if I guessed wrong and 'she' is a little fella!

IO
Farmer Geddon

I'm thinking Gender Stereotypes and wanting to meet a real 'wabbit' and 'lambsie' to show you how butch 'she' really is...
IvyOwl

Farmer Geddon wrote:
I'm thinking Gender Stereotypes and wanting to meet a real 'wabbit' and 'lambsie' to show you how butch 'she' really is...


Well I was rather hoping she'd be a good ratter ... .

Actually she's the wrong breed for that isn't she?
Ketty

Shaker wrote:



What were we talking about again?


Who cares?  The cutest most adorable doggy is a good enough subject.  I was licked to death by a 5 month old Shitzu/Papillon cross today.  He was almost as cute as the pic.
bnabernard



I don't know, typical women that's what I say, see them when they are asleep (especialy baby's) and it's oooo how sweet, oooo so lovely and adorable...... soon as they wake up and start crying and ripping the furniture and making a mess on the new carpet then you sing a different tune    


bernard (telling it like it is   )

       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum