Archive for nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Nglreturns is a forum to discuss religion, philosophy, ethics etc...

NGLReturns Daily Quiz - Play here!
 



       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Announcements
Lexilogio

Tweet Chats

I'm going to propose a tweet chat. Once a month? Once a week?

The idea is that it is 1 hour.
The easy way to follow the conversation is to search for #NGLReturns
If you use a twitter app like TweetDeck - you can add #NGLReturns to a column, to follow it at the same time as other lines.
Those joining in woud add #NGLReturns to their tweets, so they can be seen in the #NGLReturns column.

The idea is that each chat would have a topic - advertised before hand. Topics could be suggested, either here, or via twitter. And we could have a concurrent thread here as well.

Suggested topics:
Ethics around death
When does life begin?
What is Christianity?
What is heresy?
What is blasphemy and what are its effects?
St Augustine of Hippo

What do you think?
Shaker

I'm still getting my head around Twitter and still feel a bit of a klutz at it if I'm honest, but I'm up for that!
Ketty

I just can't get into Twitter.  Perhaps I'm too much of a Twit?   Sounds good though, for those who know what they're doing.
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:
I just can't get into Twitter.  Perhaps I'm too much of a Twit?   Sounds good though, for those who know what they're doing.


Do you have an account?
I'm not sure if your comment is that you can't get it to work at all, or tried twitter and didn't get it?
Ketty

Lexilogio wrote:

Do you have an account?
I'm not sure if your comment is that you can't get it to work at all, or tried twitter and didn't get it?


Sorry for being unclear.  

Yes I have an account - I opened one for NGLr.  Yes it works (or worked when I last 'played'), but I just, in the vernacular: can't get into it.  It doesn't rock (float?) my boat.     Every now and again, when the mood takes, I'll have a look, but nothing has ever grabbed me.
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:

Do you have an account?
I'm not sure if your comment is that you can't get it to work at all, or tried twitter and didn't get it?


Sorry for being unclear.  

Yes I have an account - I opened one for NGLr.  Yes it works (or worked when I last 'played'), but I just, in the vernacular: can't get into it.  It doesn't rock (float?) my boat.     Every now and again, when the mood takes, I'll have a look, but nothing has ever grabbed me.


This is common when people start - its a bit like walking into Trafalgar Square and after 20 minutes, wondering why you haven't made any friends.

It can be great for keeping up with local news and offers. Its worth following your local council, NHS Commissioners, local news agencies, theatres / museums, traffic agencies etc... The key is who you choose to follow.

Take a look at some of your interests using a hashtag.
Eg. #baking
that will reveal a number of tweets around that topic - and you may find people you want to follow.
cyberman

Re: Tweet Chats

Lexilogio wrote:
I'm going to propose a tweet chat. Once a month? Once a week?

The idea is that it is 1 hour.
The easy way to follow the conversation is to search for #NGLReturns
If you use a twitter app like TweetDeck - you can add #NGLReturns to a column, to follow it at the same time as other lines.
Those joining in woud add #NGLReturns to their tweets, so they can be seen in the #NGLReturns column.

The idea is that each chat would have a topic - advertised before hand. Topics could be suggested, either here, or via twitter. And we could have a concurrent thread here as well.

Suggested topics:
Ethics around death
When does life begin?
What is Christianity?
What is heresy?
What is blasphemy and what are its effects?
St Augustine of Hippo

What do you think?


Sounds good - hopefully it will be at a time when I am able to join in.
Shaker

Ketty wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:

Do you have an account?
I'm not sure if your comment is that you can't get it to work at all, or tried twitter and didn't get it?


Sorry for being unclear.  

Yes I have an account - I opened one for NGLr.  Yes it works (or worked when I last 'played'), but I just, in the vernacular: can't get into it.  It doesn't rock (float?) my boat.     Every now and again, when the mood takes, I'll have a look, but nothing has ever grabbed me.

In the past two months I've found that I'm the exact opposite - I gave up on Facebook and cancelled my account because I was bored with it and realised that I simply had no use for it, but there's something about the shortness and therefore the simplicity and immediacy of Twitter that I really like. I still don't feel as though I'm much cop at it and that I'm using it to its full potential, but that'll come in time. Horses for courses and all that.
Lexilogio

How about Wed at 8pm?
Next week?
Lexilogio

I've advertised the first tweet chat for next week, please retweet and spread the word
gone

Lexilogio wrote:
How about Wed at 8pm?
Next week?


My computer goes off before 8pm each day.
Lexilogio

Floo wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
How about Wed at 8pm?
Next week?


My computer goes off before 8pm each day.


Really? Can you make an exception? I can't really do it any earlier - as I'm not often home before 7pm
Shaker

I hope that everybody who is able to make it will make it. As I've said before, I still don't feel 100% confident with Twitter, but I'm very much looking forward to this.
Lexilogio

Shaker wrote:
I hope that everybody who is able to make it will make it. As I've said before, I still don't feel 100% confident with Twitter, but I'm very much looking forward to this.


They are good. I join in a couple related to my job.

Typically:
There is a topic - this Wed it will be Ethics and Dying
There are usually 5 questions, the first at 8pm, then 8.15, 8.30, 8.45 and finally one at 8.55 - but things can wander...

I use Tweetdeck - because I can watch the chat feed and others at the same time. One host swears by Twitchat.
Alternatively, just type #NGLReturns into the search box at the top to get the feed.
I would recommend if you do the latter - click "all" at the top of the feed, otherwise you may miss some comments.
Lexilogio

Suggested Questions are:

1. Is there a point at which carers should work towards a dignified death, rather than preserving life?
2. What are the key elements of a dignified death?
3. Should living wills be mandatory, to ensure there is no legal problems for carers?
4. Is the Liverpool Care Pathway a good thing?
5. Where should the responsibility lie for a dignified death?

Should organ donation be opt out rather than opt in?
Should hospices be publicly funded - rather than charitable?

And for further information:
The British Medical Association view on the ethics of dying
cymrudynnion

Lexilogio wrote:
Suggested Questions are:

1. Is there a point at which carers should work towards a dignified death, rather than preserving life?
2. What are the key elements of a dignified death?
3. Should living wills be mandatory, to ensure there is no legal problems for carers?
4. Is the Liverpool Care Pathway a good thing?
5. Where should the responsibility lie for a dignified death?

Should organ donation be opt out rather than opt in?
Should hospices be publicly funded - rather than charitable?

And for further information:
The British Medical Association view on the ethics of dying
Lexi are you in anyway involved in Palliative Care?
Lexilogio

cymrudynnion wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
Suggested Questions are:

1. Is there a point at which carers should work towards a dignified death, rather than preserving life?
2. What are the key elements of a dignified death?
3. Should living wills be mandatory, to ensure there is no legal problems for carers?
4. Is the Liverpool Care Pathway a good thing?
5. Where should the responsibility lie for a dignified death?

Should organ donation be opt out rather than opt in?
Should hospices be publicly funded - rather than charitable?

And for further information:
The British Medical Association view on the ethics of dying
Lexi are you in anyway involved in Palliative Care?


No - I don't. But I do know a fair bit about Palliative Care.
Lexilogio

Don't forget - its the tweet chat tomorrow at 8pm. For those without twitter, please try to comment here, and I will try to get comments showing on both!
Lexilogio

Just a reminder of the Tweet Chat at 8pm
Lexilogio

Is there a point at which carers should work towards a dignified death, rather than preserving life?

What do people think?
Lexilogio

@NGLReturns Yes. Not *always* true that where there's life there's hope & prep. for a dignified death the only option left. #NGLReturns

@StevePayne1972 So how do you decide when that point has been reached? #NGLReturns

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns Tough. (1) Best available medical advice but ultimately (2) the wishes of patient if deemed competent & consenting.
Lexilogio

@LynneStobbart: @NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 Wherever possible decision should be made with patient, or at least considering prev. known wishes #NGLReturns

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @LynneStobbart Absolutely not *just* that, no, but expert advice, fallible as it is, has to be taken into account. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@StevePayne1972 @LynneStobbart Surely that is a hard decision for the doctor to take? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

@StevePayne1972: @lexilogio @LynneStobbart Wdn't. be doctor's decision to die, that must always be patient's decision.
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
Q2 - What are the key elements of a dignified death? What makes for a dignified death? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 #NGLReturns May have to 'extrapolate' from pts previously known values, beliefs & actions if EoL wishes unknown
Lexilogio

Q2

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@lexilogio @NGLReturns Freedom from fear, pain & incontinence as far as poss.; respect for individual wishes. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
@StevePayne1972 @lexilogio Fear is a difficult one - how do you address the fear? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @lexilogio Spiritual/religious representative if appropriate. Family members maybe. Medication (benzos?) likewise. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

@trentvoyager
A choice of where to die. Too often on a hosp.ward entirely innappropriare to pt needs & wishes
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 @lexilogio If ongoing care has been good, fear may not and should not, be major issue #NGLReturns

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@LynneStobbart @StevePayne1972 Trust in staff in lead up to decision must be important to reducing fear #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @trentvoyager Absolutely. Choice extended wherever poss. for childbirth (home/hospital), why not same for death? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @trentvoyager Agreed, but home death not always as idyllic as anticipated & may raise other issues for the bereaved #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @LynneStobbart @trentvoyager Surprised by that: wd.'ve thought most relatives wd. prefer loved one to die at home whenever poss.
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
#NGLReturns Q3 Should living wills be mandatory, to ensure there is no legal problems for carers?
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns Always a little uncomf. with anything being branded mandatory: not sure on this one. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns Don't know enough about liv. wills to be able to say: if they definitely work compulsion a possibility #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Andrew Hibbert @trentvoyager
I know home death not always poss. But more capacity for palliative beds is needed. Instead of being placed on a gastro ward #nglreturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns Where would they be held? How registered? What if individual changed mind & didn't change documentation? #minefield #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns Perhaps an opt-out system (as I favour for organ donation), rather than opt-in? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 Agree. Forcing choice no better than not allowing choice #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@LynneStobbart @StevePayne1972 Agree - an opt out system would be better than mandatory. But still nervous of that #NGLReturns

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @trentvoyager Absolutely. Unfair & inappropriate for all concerned. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
Ok, so agreed on that - what about the #LiverpoolCarePathway ? Is it a good thing? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@lexilogio @NGLReturns Not based on what I've heard of it, no! :( #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 OD system suggests registration is less of a problem than failing to d/w rels & make wishes known #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@lexilogio @NGLReturns Seems to be well meaning but in practice can be horribly cruel. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@lexilogio @NGLReturns Death from denying food & fluids for days seems worse in some cases (for conscious patient) than active euthanasia.
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns #NGLReturns Like most things - good if applied correctly & appropriately in circumstances and manner intended

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
@StevePayne1972 @lexilogio But you can keep mouth moist, and often pt at this stage unable to eat - not denying just not forcing #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @lexilogio Totally fair point. Have heard horror stories though - perhaps media sensationalised, but still grim #NGLReturns

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@LynneStobbart Agree - when used well, far better because guide to removing active treatment, but can be misused #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 @lexilogio Simplistic and unhelpful to say it's inherently good or bad - too many other factors #NGLReturns

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
@LynneStobbart @StevePayne1972 @lexilogio Agree - but on the whole - is it a good thing or not? #NGLReturns

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@StevePayne1972 Bad care is always bad care, whether on #LiverpoolCarePathway or not #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
Final question: Where should the responsibility lie for a dignified death? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
@NGLReturns All carers have responsibility - but is NHS responsible for trying to give all members of society a dignified death? #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 @lexilogio Yes, but again, pt should be asked whether they want to be managed according to LCP. #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lexilogio @lexilogio
@LynneStobbart @StevePayne1972 Am inclined to think that where its pt / family wishes - #LCP is a good thing -thoughtful pathway #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @StevePayne1972 @lexilogio Yes, but again, pt should be asked whether they want to be managed according to LCP. #NGLReturns


Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@lexilogio @NGLReturns Surely has to be with the patient, the one most directly concerned? #NGLReturns

Lynne Stobbart @LynneStobbart
@NGLReturns @lexilogio @StevePayne1972 Me too #NGLReturns
Lexilogio

@LynneStobbart: @NGLReturns Not all deaths occur 'within NHS', so not necessarily. Doesn't have to be medicalised. #NGLReturns



Steve Payne @StevePayne1972
@NGLReturns @lexilogio Hence the need for living wills. #NGLReturns

NGLReturns @NGLReturns
Well - thank you very much for participating in first ever #NGLReturns Tweet chat!
Lexilogio

And that is a tweet chat!

Slightly manic for me, as I was trying to ensure everyone saw all messages (so retweeting), and posting on here...
Shaker

Your mania is much appreciated    I thought it went very well even for a first one - frustrating to be limited to 140 characters though!
trentvoyager

Hmmm....I really don't think I've got this twittering think under my belt yet.

I was tweeting from a tablet that kept refusing to update the posts/tweets - very frustrating. But well done Lexi for organising it and for understanding it!
cyberman

Sorry I was AFK last night. Hope it went well.
Lexilogio

Thank you both.

It did go well - and to an extent - the argument is still raging. Apparently it got picked up by two accounts who are both very anti the Liverpool Care Pathway.
Lexilogio

Thinking of another topic - for another week:

Adoption rights for gay couples

Any recommended websites for information on the topic gratefully received.

Suggested questions:
Should gay couples be able to adopt?
If not - why not
Is there a difference between rules for society, and rules for organisations? What about religious organisations?
Should an organisation be allowed to refuse to adhere to gay adoption based on moral teachings?
What is best for the children? Given that care homes are accepted to be a poor solution for childrens welfare? Or can that be challenged?
Is there a perception difference between female gay couples in adoption and male gay couples? Is there sexism here?

Any further suggested questions - or comments on questions would be gratefully received.

       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Announcements
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum