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Lexilogio

Unification

Do you believe that the Christian churches should unify - or not?

Do you think its conceivable for Christian churches to get closer? Does it matter if there are separate ways to worship, if there is a single "Christian" voice. And what would that be?
bnabernard

Re: Unification

Lexilogio wrote:
Do you believe that the Christian churches should unify - or not?

Do you think its conceivable for Christian churches to get closer? Does it matter if there are separate ways to worship, if there is a single "Christian" voice. And what would that be?


From what I've seen, mind you I only went to one meeting to chaperone a grandaughter, they have no chance of unification, lets face it it started to fall apart from when it was bought and it's in so many bits now there is hardly a vestige of what it might have been.

bernard (hug)
gone

There are so many dogmas and doctrines within the faith, I would think it well nigh impossible for there to be any agreement.
Jim

Re: Unification

There are far more things that unite us than divide us, Lexi. Yes, there are some problems over mariolatry, hagiolatry and transubstantiation, but the biggest problem might well be inthe governance of the church.
Differing interpretations of "episkapos" and "Presbuteros" in the N.T. led to episcopacy. Roman beauraocracy - in East and West - led to hierarchy. Niether is acceptable to the majority of Reformed church, as they/we adhere to the priesthood of all believers, and will not submit ourselves to the discipline of 'clergy'.
bnabernard

Re: Unification

Jim wrote:
There are far more things that unite us than divide us, Lexi. Yes, there are some problems over mariolatry, hagiolatry and transubstantiation, but the biggest problem might well be inthe governance of the church.
Differing interpretations of "episkapos" and "Presbuteros" in the N.T. led to episcopacy. Roman beauraocracy - in East and West - led to hierarchy. Niether is acceptable to the majority of Reformed church, as they/we adhere to the priesthood of all believers, and will not submit ourselves to the discipline of 'clergy'.


There in lies a problem in becoming a law unto oneself, which is what I am having no doctrinal leadership and while the Jews had that arrangement they found they needed leadership, someone to carry the can, and this is how it is considered, the leadership aka the teachers become the resposibility for teaching what is correct, judgement is on them first, then the pupill as to the why and wherefores of their heart in responding to their chosen leadership.
The most high profile of our day is the RC staunch and unwavering in it's leadership and though there are obvious problems there are true believers within that congregation, earnest believers in God as they have been taught, people who demostrate loyalty, people who if they knew better would give the same loyalty becuase their intention is to be good with God, others would find the loss of the lie unbearable because their alliegence is to the profit of their belief, I use the RC as an example but the principle is the same even if you are Hindu or such like, it's availability to the truth.
Fine, availability to the truth has never been an easy access untill times like today when we have, in most homes, access by the webb, LC and myself are in certain conflicts yet at the press of a button you can see how that same conflict has been bouncing arround in a less public domain since christianity became a subject.
Fruits, what a wonderful thing, fruits, look for the fruits and what do you see, such wonderful fruits that you have to pick the bad from the worst  and in those circumstances where is the unification going to spring from?
Oh dear me is going into one here I think I better stop now before I write a depressing tome  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: Unification

Hi Lexi

Lexilogio wrote:
Do you believe that the Christian churches should unify - or not?

Do you think its conceivable for Christian churches to get closer? Does it matter if there are separate ways to worship, if there is a single "Christian" voice. And what would that be?


Are not all those who confess Y'shua as Messiah grafted into ONE tree.

Now ask those who belong to the ''churches'' you refer to to identify the tree.

Romans 11
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

LeClerc
Paul

This largely depends upon one's ecclesiology, doesn't it? If you believe in some kind of branch theory then the Church is divided, but this to me seems like an incoherent ecclesiology. For those with a traditional patristic view there is only one Church, one visible body, with one faith under a bishop, thus the Church is unified and those outside simply are not the Church. Should we pray for all Christians? Most certainly. As for ecumenism, I'm weary at best. I'm distrustful of the kind which aims to sweep differences under the carpet. Such is not true ecumenism. From an Orthodox perspective the starting point is "first confess the orthodox faith".
Lexilogio

I would suggest that "one church" "one voice" would be all Christians. However, I am acutely aware that not all see other branches as "christians". It will take small groups coming together in clusters initially.

Perhaps if people could at least start to agree a basic voice.
eg. All Christians believe in God. All Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. All Christians believe in Jesus.
Seems a reasonable place to start. If you don't start - you never get anywhere.
bnabernard

Lexilogio wrote:
I would suggest that "one church" "one voice" would be all Christians. However, I am acutely aware that not all see other branches as "christians". It will take small groups coming together in clusters initially.

Perhaps if people could at least start to agree a basic voice.
eg. All Christians believe in God. All Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. All Christians believe in Jesus.
Seems a reasonable place to start. If you don't start - you never get anywhere.


Surely Lex what you invisage is what was/is the Roman Catholic church catholic being universal, and if I might say what they are trying to do with the european government?

bernard (hug)
Jim

Yes.
I'd agree with that.
For example, we had joint housegroups with our own CofS congregation and members of the local RC congregation. These were very stimulating, refreshing and helpful. Praying together helped as well.  That led to joint services in each others' churches; a practice which continues to this day.

  We may not agree with each other's form of governance...though after umpteen sessions of Presbytery where falling asleep becomes an appealingly practical alternative, I'd give bishops a go...'cos they deserve the kirk as penance!
Jim

Bernie:
Most Reformed denominations are in complete accord with the R.C. church when we subscribe to the 'Apostles' Creed' which states;
  "....I believe in the Holy Catholic Church."
One Church
One Faith
One Lord!
JamesJah

Re: Unification

Lexilogio wrote:
Do you believe that the Christian churches should unify - or not?

Do you think its conceivable for Christian churches to get closer? Does it matter if there are separate ways to worship, if there is a single "Christian" voice. And what would that be?


Man has had six thousand years of promoting his ideas as to how the earth should be organised, his foolishness is blatantly obvious to all is it not?

Jeremiah 10:23
I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

The kingdom set up by the creator would be unique, and according to his requirements, he will not be asking the opinion of any one as to how the new order of things is to take place, even very clever people that come to this forum will not be asked as to their opinion. as to what is the best way Godís will might take place.

What is to take place has been written down for you to read and accept or reject, but you do not have the opportunity to change a thing.

Luke 5:36-39
Further, he went on to give an illustration to them: No one cuts a patch from a new outer garment and sews it onto an old outer garment; but if he does, then both the new patch tears away and the patch from the new garment does not match the old. Moreover, no one puts new wine into old wineskins; but if he does, then the new wine will burst the wineskins, and it will be spilled out and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins. No one that has drunk old wine wants new; for he says, The old is nice.

Daniel 2:44
The kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

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