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Lexilogio

Utilitarian Wages

So Wayne Rooney now earns £43,000 a day. More than I earn in a year.

Someone suggested that it was because of the happiness he brought. Which is a utilitarian argument. But is that the case? If we really paid wages based on who brought the most happiness - who would earn the most?
trentvoyager

Doesn't bring any happiness to me.

It's (and you don't hear me use this word often) immoral.
Shaker

What the man just above me said. All of it. Utilitarian doesn't cover it because that philosophical school is predicated on the greatest happiness of the greatest number, and that doesn't apply - Rooney undoubtedly does bring enjoyment to a very considerable number of people indeed, but they'll surely be in the minority when you look at British society as a whole.

The justification that I've seen in the past, or which has been tried to be used, is that top-flight footballers are paid so much because they have such a short career: Rooney is 28 and his professional career is likely to be over within a handful of years, after which he'll have to go and do something else because he'll be too old to compete at his former levels.

Sounds like crap to me. It's still an obscenity. I do not know, but would be delighted to listen to and take on board, how anybody could advance a case in justification of this grotesquery.
Jim

Yep.
In a land where increasing numbers of people depend on food banks, that this chap, no matter how good he is at kicking a ball around a bit of grass, should recieve that amount of cash for it, IS immoral - as is the fact that he accepted the deal.
Shaker

I wish there were somebody on the forum who thinks it's acceptable and tries to justify it - I think there's going to be near unanimity on this one.
bnabernard

Its a wierd ole game an I'm sure someone can explain it better in intelectural terms but it seems to boil down to advertiseing and the developement of a product,
The team generate advertiseing due to good performance, prestige generates another upmanship card among business peers generating assossiation, so that somewhere miles away from W Rooney someone is earning far more than £300,000 a week.

It has to show a profit somewhere along the line, and loss in some circles can equal a profit in another circle,

Along the line all sorts of momentems get gathered by that rolling stone of commerce,....innit  

bernard (hug)
Lexilogio

So who SHOULD get paid silly money? Which jobs make the most people happy?

Actors?
Comedians?
Sports personalities?
Psychologists?
Healthcare workers?

(you notice I am not going to propose politicians....)
Jim

This afternoon, fifteen hundred fans stood in the driving rain to watch two Junior Football teams play a league game in my town.
Junior football is only a step above the amateur game. Players are paid transport costs and, if they're lucky, as much as £100 a week (most get less). The passion and dedication they show week in, week out, may not rival the Skills of these professional prima donnas, but the games are always worth watching.
BTW, my team - my local team - happens to hold the record for winning the Scottish Junior Cup more times than any other team.
trentvoyager

Well if I had to give it to anyone famous I'd give it to the cast of Mrs Browns Boys (I know it's old fashioned - sheesh, everyone's a critic) but it just makes me laugh.

The one where she takes drugs and starts hallucinating has me reaching for my inhaler.

More joy in a minute of that programme than there is in the entire output of the premier league (imo).
Ketty

Lexilogio wrote:
So who SHOULD get paid silly money? Which jobs make the most people happy?

Actors?
Comedians?
Sports personalities?
Psychologists?
Healthcare workers?

(you notice I am not going to propose politicians....)



Footballers and entertainers should not be paid so much that ordinary people cannot afford to go and see them.

All those who look after us and protect us should be paid more, and I include in that toilet cleaners, cleaners generally, refuse collectors, the police, fire fighters, medics, paramedics/ambulance:

Those who have had to study hard, sacrificing some of their own lives in order to be able to look after us should be paid a little more still - doctors, dentists, etc.

Who deserves silly money?  Nobody!  Certainly not bankers and the like.
Shaker

Ketty wrote:
Footballers and entertainers should not be paid so much that ordinary people cannot afford to go and see them.

All those who look after us and protect us should be paid more, and I include in that toilet cleaners, cleaners generally, refuse collectors, the police, fire fighters, medics, paramedics/ambulance:

Those who have had to study hard, sacrificing some of their own lives in order to be able to look after us should be paid a little more still - doctors, dentists, etc.


Who deserves silly money?  Nobody!  Certainly not bankers and the like.


BIB is pretty much exactly what I was going to say - people who manifest some real skill which is really involved in the betterment of the lives of others. I just can't see actors, pop stars, writers and (sorry trent!) sports men and women as falling into that category. It takes, what, five years (as far as I know? May be wrong) to become a doctor (or even a dentist or a vet), and notwithstanding the sometimes deserved reputation of medical students that's five years of hard brain graft. After that it's decades of criminally long hours, lower pay than is merited, sometimes abuse and violence, 3:15am outcalls and everything else that stems from it, which we now know all too often in too many cases is depression, alcoholism, divorce and even suicide. What are the suicide stats for GPs and dentists these days - have they come down at all from the last time I read about them?

No, Wayne. I believe and know that you absolutely love what you do. God knows I get that. I believe and know that you were born to do it and nothing else. God knows I get that as well. It consumes your life all day and every day. I get that as well. But not for £43,000 every day while there are chaps and chapesses with little kiddies going to food banks to feed themselves, and while there are physically and/or mentally disabled people stuck without money while their appeal is heard, or old folks wondering whether it's going to be two hours with the central heating and two cardigans on or supper tonight. No, Wayne. Just no.
ELEVENSES81

Is our contribution to society to be recompensed purely on a supply and demand basis? A road sweeper performs a vital function, but their skill has no monetary value. A nurse or a teacher may hold the moral high ground over a banker or overpaid celebrity, but as public servants their recompense is based on supply and an ethos of public service.

Christiano Ronaldo is a wondrous sportsman who brings pleasure to millions, yet many decry his monetary rewards. One philosophical criticism is that 'natural talent' is undeserving of such rewards [ I suspect Ronaldo does train a bit as well].  There was a time when privilege gained access to the professions regardless of ability [some may argue that this still pertains in the UK], so as 'unfair' as being elevated by 'merit' may seem, it is surer fairer than being the fortunate beneficiary of family connection.

The problem in the UK now with meritocracy is that it seems to have become the privilege of the middle classes who monopolise the best schools and reinforce the opportunity divide. If every state school was of equal quality and we valued every person who made the most of their abilities, we might well consider that even the most humble job deserved a living wage. I fear however that the lack of opportunity has become a cornerstone of our employment and has degenerated into the ubiquitous zero hour contract.
bnabernard

The Titanic syndrome comes to mind, there will alwats be steerage class.

bernard (hug)

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