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Lexilogio

What price safety?

Yesterday, a young woman, who had been gang raped on a public bus in Dehli, died in hospital of her injuries.

There is an attitude in India, that women should not use public transport.
This might be shocking here?
Or is it?
It's only 15 years since the police were advising women not to use Wimbledon Common alone.

I find this hugely irritating. I do not want to be told there are some places I shouldn't go because they are "unsafe". I want them to be made safe.

Would it be acceptable to say that people with red hair can't go on public transport, or to certain environments? Would it be ok to say that men under 5ft 5 can't travel on public transport?

It's time the world stopped pretending that keeping women under lock and key was about protecting them, and start looking at the attitudes which can make life unsafe for women.
Shaker

Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?
trentvoyager

Shaker wrote:
Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?


 

My thoughts prexactly. (Thanks to S Unwin)
Ketty

Shaker wrote:
Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?


No.  

It's not lame to agree with someone, and I agree with the OP too.

Although if there are areas considered unsafe for any reason, I guess it's best to be informed.   We have laws in place but we can never actually stop people acting anti-socially nor unlawfully.
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:
Shaker wrote:
Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?


No.  

It's not lame to agree with someone, and I agree with the OP too.

Although if there are areas considered unsafe for any reason, I guess it's best to be informed.   We have laws in place but we can never actually stop people acting anti-socially nor unlawfully.


True - but doesn't it make you angry? If a place was generally unsafe for any individual, that is one thing, but only unsafe for one gender? Or one religion? Or one sexual preference? That's completely unreasonable.
Ketty

True Lexi and it's unfair, but I've got to the stage of life when I don't feel particularly angry about such things over which I have no control.   I'm more likely to stride out confidently through an area that's dodgy if I need to, rather than not do so - then my anger would be well-aimed towards any would-be assailant, especially if I was protecting my own.  I have confidence in mankind that most people are actually a lot nicer than many would have us believe.  

Maybe I would feel a lot differently if I lived in a culture such as that poor girl who had died, but do I have the right to demand other cultures have similar values to my own?  It's a human rights issue, definitely, but so many do not recognise those basic rights of all human beings regardless of gender, caste or creed.
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:
True Lexi and it's unfair, but I've got to the stage of life when I don't feel particularly angry about such things over which I have no control.   I'm more likely to stride out confidently through an area that's dodgy if I need to, rather than not do so - then my anger would be well-aimed towards any would-be assailant, especially if I was protecting my own.  I have confidence in mankind that most people are actually a lot nicer than many would have us believe.  

Maybe I would feel a lot differently if I lived in a culture such as that poor girl who had died, but do I have the right to demand other cultures have similar values to my own?  It's a human rights issue, definitely, but so many do not recognise those basic rights of all human beings regardless of gender, caste or creed.


Well, that partly depends on how you classify "our own" culture.
Do we have the right to defend women in other cultures? Yes - I think we do.
Ketty

Again, I agree, but apart from supporting petitions, or activists, etc, how does a woman in the UK prevent men in India not seeing a woman on a bus as 'fair game'?  How do we prevent a woman getting Biblically stoned to death because she was in an adulterous relationship, but the male walks away with his life? It's got to take a global shift in thinking and it's got to take a huge change in the mind-set of the male of species.
Lexilogio

Ketty wrote:
Again, I agree, but apart from supporting petitions, or activists, etc, how does a woman in the UK prevent men in India not seeing a woman on a bus as 'fair game'?  How do we prevent a woman getting Biblically stoned to death because she was in an adulterous relationship, but the male walks away with his life? It's got to take a global shift in thinking and it's got to take a huge change in the mind-set of the male of species.


It does - but its also about conversations in the Uk. Our neighbours have family in Pakistan. All over are people who have relations, friends in the sub continent. If they are allowed to hold these attitudes, it just encourages it further.

Petitions and activism does help. Protests outside embassies helps. It is worldwide attention to the issue which begins the slow process of people realising that an attitude is not acceptable.
Ketty

I guess, despite supporting activists, etc, one feels so impotent in our little corner of the world - and when there is still institutionalised sexism, misogyny and attempts to keep 'women in their place' in UK, one despairs all the more for the sisterhood world-wide.
Shaker

Back to the OP eight months on (!), though I suppose this should in the News section ... the men responsible have been charged.
Lexilogio

I'm glad they have been charged - but there is a long way to go before women can feel safe in India. It would actually put me off visiting the country.
Derek

Lexilogio wrote:
I'm glad they have been charged - but there is a long way to go before women can feel safe in India. It would actually put me off visiting the country.


I find these stories incredibly frustrating as there is nothing that I can do about it. It seems like men think that they can take advantage of innocent females just because they want to. How does someone arouse themselves to have sex with someone who does not want to, in front of other men.  i would not be able to raise a smile let alone anything else. Even if they can, what do they think about themselves during and afterwards. Well done, she really enjoyed that and you were great. It is times like this that I am sure that evolution is a reality as these people are unevolved animals, not yet civilized. But what do we do about, seriously. Not to stop them but to prevent them from even thinking about such an atrocity. We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have. Tell that to the girl who died and her family who grieve. Is this another sign of the impending Armageddon?
Quizzimodo

Ralph2 wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I'm glad they have been charged - but there is a long way to go before women can feel safe in India. It would actually put me off visiting the country.


I find these stories incredibly frustrating as there is nothing that I can do about it. It seems like men think that they can take advantage of innocent females just because they want to. How does someone arouse themselves to have sex with someone who does not want to, in front of other men.  i would not be able to raise a smile let alone anything else. Even if they can, what do they think about themselves during and afterwards. Well done, she really enjoyed that and you were great. It is times like this that I am sure that evolution is a reality as these people are unevolved animals, not yet civilized. But what do we do about, seriously. Not to stop them but to prevent them from even thinking about such an atrocity. We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have. Tell that to the girl who died and her family who grieve. Is this another sign of the impending Armageddon?


This has as much to do with culture as anything else.

Trying to use this to denigrate "science"is just pathetic.

No it's not a sign of Armageddon.
It's the sign of a badly educated paternal society. Something your book, if read literally, also encourages
Derek

[quote="Quizzimodo:100564"]
Ralph2 wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
I'm glad they have been charged - but there is a long way to go before women can feel safe in India. It would actually put me off visiting the country.


I find these stories incredibly frustrating as there is nothing that I can do about it. It seems like men think that they can take advantage of innocent females just because they want to. How does someone arouse themselves to have sex with someone who does not want to, in front of other men.  i would not be able to raise a smile let alone anything else. Even if they can, what do they think about themselves during and afterwards. Well done, she really enjoyed that and you were great. It is times like this that I am sure that evolution is a reality as these people are unevolved animals, not yet civilized. But what do we do about, seriously. Not to stop them but to prevent them from even thinking about such an atrocity. We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have. Tell that to the girl who died and her family who grieve. Is this another sign of the impending Armageddon?


Quote:
This has as much to do with culture as anything else
.

True

Quote:
Trying to use this to denigrate "science"is just pathetic


I agree,  I didn't. I said:" We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have"

Quote:
No it's not a sign of Armageddon.
It's the sign of a badly educated paternal society. Something your book, if read literally, also encourages


Where.
Shaker

Ralph2 wrote:
I said:" We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have"

Which is true.
Derek

Shaker wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
I said:" We have people in the science world telling us that we live in a far better world then we ever have"

Which is true.


No surprises there then.
Ketty

Shaker wrote:
Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?


Not if it's true.
Shaker

Ketty wrote:
Shaker wrote:
Posts which run along the lines of "I couldn't possibly agree more with absolutely everything you've said" are always a little bit lame, don't you think?


Not if it's true.

Which is also true  

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