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bnabernard

Who or what is the Father of Jesus?

In a discussion with Leclerc who appears to represent the trinitarian, we have:-

God became flesh (Jesus/Joshua)

God is in heaven (undefined)

Jesus says:- - Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

LeClerc says:-
You fail to understand that the Logos became flesh however do you not know that YHWH, who is Spirit, from whom the Logos went forth, is omnipresent.

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

John 3
13 No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.


Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Clearly when Jesus speaks to Simon, with or without the pointing finger, he means up there.
But, there is a scripture that says that God is the word and that the word became flesh, God became flesh, right?

So Jesus has not pointed at himself in reference to the Father, therefore Jesus cannot be the Father, He is in heaven.

Leclerc the informs me that God is omnipresent because he is spirit
Well it would seem that God as spirit the word/miltha/logos has become flesh Jesus`according to the arguments put forward by Leclerc and scriture quotes.

Which is right Jesus who says his Father is in heaven or Leclerc and his scriptures that turn Jesus into God.

Or the omnipetence of God  which makes Jesus and scripture a liar.

bernard (hug)
Jim

Jesus claimed God as His Father, then that was a short thread.
LeClerc

Re: Who or what is the Father of Jesus?

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc
Ketty

Jim wrote:
Jesus claimed God as His Father, then that was a short thread.


Aye, but we need note that, although it was a bit part, Joseph was His dad on earth.
bnabernard

Jim wrote:
Jesus claimed God as His Father, then that was a short thread.


Oh no Jim take your coat back off I've locked the door anyhow so you can't get out (smile)

God, we are told is the word and that the word has become flesh,
God we are also told is YHWH/Jehovah.

The flesh in question is Yeshua/Jesus.

Now YHWH/Jehovah is flesh Yeshua/Jesus.

Jesus says to Simon :-   Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

So God the word/YHWH/Jehovah who is flesh Yeshua/Jesus has not revealed to Simon but the Father of God/YHWH/Jehovah/Yeshua/Jesus who is in heaven has revealed it.

So who is this Father that is in heaven that has revealed this thing to Simon?


bernard (hug)
bnabernard

Ketty wrote:
Jim wrote:
Jesus claimed God as His Father, then that was a short thread.


Aye, but we need note that, although it was a bit part, Joseph was His dad on earth.


you minx

So for further edification  

Mat 16:16   And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God

The question is who is the living God because the living God is surely the word that has become flesh?

In the begining was the word and the word etc etc etc, lets dance tra la la

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: Who or what is the Father of Jesus?

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

Re: Who or what is the Father of Jesus?

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc


You can always do it your way on another thread here I'm dealing with it in my steps, if you want to move to another passage give reasons and answers.

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

Mat 16:16   And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God
Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven


The question is who is the living God because the living God is surely the word that has become flesh?

In the begining was the word and the word etc etc etc

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Re: Who or what is the Father of Jesus?

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc


You can always do it your way on another thread here I'm dealing with it in my steps, if you want to move to another passage give reasons and answers.

bernard (hug)


The title of this thread, started by you is, ''Who or what is the Father of Jesus''

Y'shua claimed YHWH as His Father and you make reference to where The Father of Y'shua is.

In The Tanakh Genesis 19 we learn
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

My question ''where is YHWH in the above passage'' is very relevant to the question you have asked since you have used the example of pointing your finger to discern where Y'shua's Father is.

So Bernie in Genesis 19 verse 24 where is YHWH, you can use your finger to point if you like.

LeClerc
bnabernard

So the question remains, who or what is the father of Jesus?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So the question remains, who or what is the father of Jesus?

bernard (hug)


YHWH is the answer but as we can see from scripture.

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc


You can always do it your way on another thread here I'm dealing with it in my steps, if you want to move to another passage give reasons and answers.

bernard (hug)


The title of this thread, started by you is, ''Who or what is the Father of Jesus''

Y'shua claimed YHWH as His Father and you make reference to where The Father of Y'shua is.

In The Tanakh Genesis 19 we learn
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

My question ''where is YHWH in the above passage'' is very relevant to the question you have asked since you have used the example of pointing your finger to discern where Y'shua's Father is.

So Bernie in Genesis 19 verse 24 where is YHWH, you can use your finger to point if you like.

LeClerc
Farmer Geddon

For the love of the wee man. Yahweh is sky god of the Jews.

Does that answer your question?
bnabernard

Farmer Geddon wrote:
For the love of the wee man. Yahweh is sky god of the Jews.

Does that answer your question?


Nah FG we have deffinately, with a bit of patience, managed to prise it out of LC that YHWH IS Superman who made reguler visits to Abraham with a couple of other superheroes, I've left it at that but the other two blokes are probably Batman and Robin  

bernard (hug)
Farmer Geddon

You must be joking Bern...

The god of Clercy is so full of shit it smells like TWL....


I have taught her well...  But she was always on the Dark side...
bnabernard

Farmer Geddon wrote:
You must be joking Bern...

The god of Clercy is so full of shit it smells like TWL....


I have taught her well...  But she was always on the Dark side...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman

God is a man and lives in the north pole  

Kal-EL or EL-Kal or El Shaddai,

Or simply living in Kansas as Clark Kent

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

Return of superman FG, that seems to be the hope but is the world prepared for it?
It would seem he passed on some powers to a select few and promised that providing they avoided the green krytonite that they would be able to pass on power themselves and you would imagine from that that he would return and find everything hunky dory.

So whats the score then, did the green kryptonite get the better of the select few?

bernard (hug)
bnabernard

I reckon a good question is where does he start his clean up, where is his highest priority and where is his least priority?

Seems last time round he settled for just eight people, can we do any better this time round  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So the question remains, who or what is the father of Jesus?

bernard (hug)


YHWH is the answer but as we can see from scripture.

bnabernard wrote:
LeClerc wrote:
Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:

Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.
bernard (hug)


One step at a time.

In the above passage where is YHWH ?

LeClerc


You can always do it your way on another thread here I'm dealing with it in my steps, if you want to move to another passage give reasons and answers.

bernard (hug)


The title of this thread, started by you is, ''Who or what is the Father of Jesus''

Y'shua claimed YHWH as His Father and you make reference to where The Father of Y'shua is.

In The Tanakh Genesis 19 we learn
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

My question ''where is YHWH in the above passage'' is very relevant to the question you have asked since you have used the example of pointing your finger to discern where Y'shua's Father is.

So Bernie in Genesis 19 verse 24 where is YHWH, you can use your finger to point if you like.

LeClerc
bnabernard

In The Tanakh Genesis 19 we learn
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.


You say we learn, learn what?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
In The Tanakh Genesis 19 we learn
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

You say we learn, learn what?

bernard (hug)


Will leave it to you to answer your own question.

My question ''where is YHWH in the above passage'' is very relevant to the question you have asked since you have used the example of pointing your finger to discern where Y'shua's Father is.

So Bernie in Genesis 19 verse 24 where is YHWH, you can use your finger to point if you like.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Well if you can't explain what is supposedley learnt from your passage then no learning takes place.  

In answer to your question, Heaven.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Well if you can't explain what is supposedley learnt from your passage then no learning takes place.  

In answer to your question, Heaven.

bernard (hug)


What we learn Bernie is that YHWH is in heaven but also on earth in Genesis 19 verse 24.

LeClerc
bnabernard

So earth is not part of heaven then?

What part of heaven is God in?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So earth is not part of heaven then?

What part of heaven is God in?

bernard (hug)


If you wish to persue that line of reasoning returning to your opening post

bnabernard wrote:
In a discussion with Leclerc who appears to represent the trinitarian, we have:-

God became flesh (Jesus/Joshua)

God is in heaven (undefined)

Jesus says:- - Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

LeClerc says:-
You fail to understand that the Logos became flesh however do you not know that YHWH, who is Spirit, from whom the Logos went forth, is omnipresent.

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

John 3
13 No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.


Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Clearly when Jesus speaks to Simon, with or without the pointing finger, he means up there.
But, there is a scripture that says that God is the word and that the word became flesh, God became flesh, right?

So Jesus has not pointed at himself in reference to the Father, therefore Jesus cannot be the Father, He is in heaven.

Leclerc the informs me that God is omnipresent because he is spirit
Well it would seem that God as spirit the word/miltha/logos has become flesh Jesus`according to the arguments put forward by Leclerc and scriture quotes.

Which is right Jesus who says his Father is in heaven or Leclerc and his scriptures that turn Jesus into God.

Or the omnipetence of God  which makes Jesus and scripture a liar.

bernard (hug)


In Matthew Mat 16:17 which you quote  

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

The Father was on earth.

LeClerc
bnabernard

The only thing that I can think of that is omnipresent and infinite is nothing   so as everything comes from nothing  

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
The only thing that I can think of that is omnipresent and infinite is nothing   so as everything comes from nothing  

bernard (hug)


So you agree that YHWH created the universe and all that is in it ex nihilo ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

I know that when Moses led the Isrealites through the red sea that there was nothing to stop them, what is your understanding of nothing?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I know that when Moses led the Isrealites through the red sea that there was nothing to stop them, what is your understanding of nothing?

bernard (hug)


What you quote means is no thing was able to stop them.

Things existed but were not able to stop them.

LeClerc
bnabernard

So you are saying no thing was in command or nothing was in command?

What is your understanding of nothing?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
So you are saying no thing was in command or nothing was in command?

What is your understanding of nothing?

bernard (hug)


YHWH was in command.

Before the creation of the universe and all that is in it only YHWH existed.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Then getting back to my recognition of nothing being infinite and omnipresent is God Nothing?

I seem to remember something about giving up everything, posited to some rich guy who wanted to know about getting into heaven, also those closest to God seemed to exist with an absence of 'things' and the Ebeonites, Essenes and Nazerites who offered themselves as vessels of God, there premis was to deny themselves possessions and worldly things and relationships etc etc
Dependency on nothing seemed to be the order of the day?

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Hi Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Then getting back to my recognition of nothing being infinite and omnipresent is God Nothing?

I seem to remember something about giving up everything, posited to some rich guy who wanted to know about getting into heaven, also those closest to God seemed to exist with an absence of 'things' and the Ebeonites, Essenes and Nazerites who offered themselves as vessels of God, there premis was to deny themselves possessions and worldly things and relationships etc etc
Dependency on nothing seemed to be the order of the day?

bernard (hug)


If you desire to draw close to YHWH then you need to draw close to Messiah Y'shua since He is YHWH manifest in the flesh.

bnabernard wrote:
So earth is not part of heaven then?

What part of heaven is God in?

bernard (hug)


If you wish to persue that line of reasoning returning to your opening post

bnabernard wrote:
In a discussion with Leclerc who appears to represent the trinitarian, we have:-

God became flesh (Jesus/Joshua)

God is in heaven (undefined)

Jesus says:- - Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

LeClerc says:-
You fail to understand that the Logos became flesh however do you not know that YHWH, who is Spirit, from whom the Logos went forth, is omnipresent.

Genesis 19
24 Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens.

John 3
13 No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.


Now with fire comming down from it, and this ascending and descending, it would appear that Heaven is up there (I am now pointing my finger upwards to where the rain is falling from)

Clearly when Jesus speaks to Simon, with or without the pointing finger, he means up there.
But, there is a scripture that says that God is the word and that the word became flesh, God became flesh, right?

So Jesus has not pointed at himself in reference to the Father, therefore Jesus cannot be the Father, He is in heaven.

Leclerc the informs me that God is omnipresent because he is spirit
Well it would seem that God as spirit the word/miltha/logos has become flesh Jesus`according to the arguments put forward by Leclerc and scriture quotes.

Which is right Jesus who says his Father is in heaven or Leclerc and his scriptures that turn Jesus into God.

Or the omnipetence of God  which makes Jesus and scripture a liar.

bernard (hug)


In Matthew Mat 16:17 which you quote  

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

The Father was on earth.

LeClerc
bnabernard

I see, you insist that God is a man, is this an uncreated man made of uncreated substance, me thinks you are looking for the invisible man.

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
I see, you insist that God is a man, is this an uncreated man made of uncreated substance, me thinks you are looking for the invisible man.

bernard (hug)


No Bernie, YHWH Elohiym is Spirit, whose Logos became flesh.

LeClerc
bnabernard

Is the logos not spirit?

bernard (hug)
Farmer Geddon

Heard it all before..  "Logos" becomes flesh: yadda yadda!!

A lot like Elijah Wood becomes the Flesh of Frodo Baggins, Martin Freeman becomes the Flesh of Bilbo Baggins, Tom Cruise becomes the Flesh of Jack Reacher, Harrison Ford becomes the Flesh of Rick Deckard and so on and so forth...

To me Robert Powell or Jim Caviezel, or even Max von Sydow brought more Flesh to the "Logos" than "John" ever did....

LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
Is the logos not spirit?

bernard (hug)


At last, now who is the Eternal Spirit ?

LeClerc
bnabernard

http://www.torahofmessiah.com/theophanies.html

http://lhim.org/blog/2008/07/21/n...s-or-christophanies-in-scripture/

bernard (hug)
LeClerc

Morning Bernie

bnabernard wrote:
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/theophanies.html

http://lhim.org/blog/2008/07/21/n...s-or-christophanies-in-scripture/

bernard (hug)


That does not answer the question does it.

bnabernard wrote:
Is the logos not spirit?

bernard (hug)


At last, now who is the Eternal Spirit ?

LeClerc

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