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JamesJah

Why do so many miss the second coming?

If Jesus coming is so obvious why do so many say when the judgement falls on them, when did we see you lord?
Jim

Re: Why do so many miss the second coming?

Er....so He didn't return in 1874/1914/1925/1975 then?
Old mother Brooklyn changed its' mind - again - has it?
Honey 56

Again!!!  
JamesJah

Who is Babylon the Great?

Where is Christ's temple, he came to cleans?



Malachi 3:1
Look! I am sending my messenger, and he must clear up a way before me. And suddenly there will come to His temple the [true] Lord, whom you people are seeking, and the messenger of the covenant in whom Yyouare delighting. Look! He will certainly come,” Jehovah of armies has said.
Jim

Where is Christ's temple?
Well, I suppose the WTBTS will have to build another one after selling the first one they built - as a result of yet another daft misinterpretation of scripture!
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Where is Christ's temple?
Well, I suppose the WTBTS will have to build another one after selling the first one they built - as a result of yet another daft misinterpretation of scripture!


Is that your way Jim, of covering up the fact you do not know?

You are not alone most coming here have any idea either.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Jim wrote:
Where is Christ's temple?
Well, I suppose the WTBTS will have to build another one after selling the first one they built - as a result of yet another daft misinterpretation of scripture!


Is that your way Jim, of covering up the fact you do not know?

You are not alone most coming here have any idea either.


We know James, the scriptures are clear, the WTBTS just misinterpret/ mistranslate them to fit their rather skewed and very unfortunate teachings.
You are obviously not really interested in anything we have to say truthfully James, because you have been mislead into believing heresy and false prophesy.
JamesJah

It is a good job I did not wait to hear the Good news from any one here is it not?

Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Jim

Eh?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
It is a good job I did not wait to hear the Good news from any one here is it not?

Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.


You have more chance of hearing it here than in any Kingdom hall James.

What was the good news you have again? we have asked you several times but nothing has transpired so far.

As you so rightly said, The Messiah instructed us to take it out into the entire world.
So in view of this, what is the 'Good News' that you take out James?

Honey
Jim

And more to the point...
better chech that the good news dribbled out by Watchtower Central is the same as the stuff it dribbled out twenty years back...and preach it quick, 'cos it'll probably change a gain in a couple of years!
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
JamesJah wrote:
It is a good job I did not wait to hear the Good news from any one here is it not?

Matthew 24:14
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.


You have more chance of hearing it here than in any Kingdom hall James.

What was the good news you have again? we have asked you several times but nothing has transpired so far.

As you so rightly said, The Messiah instructed us to take it out into the entire world.
So in view of this, what is the 'Good News' that you take out James?

Honey


The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you?

Revelation 12:10
I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Did you miss that loid voice?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:


Did you miss that loid voice?


So your 'good news is, that it is too late?

The scriptures says this James......

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

And as Messiah says James  'He will not come with your careful observations' but rather 'He will come like a theif in the night' and when He does 'Every eye will see him'
Messiah Yeshua never said He would come in secret, He never said He would keep on returning, neither did He say He would return to a few elite people.
It is prophesied, by the true prophets that a days is coming when 'they will look on the one they have peirced and weep'

Honey
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:

The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you?

Revelation 12:10
I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Did you miss that loid voice?


When was it James that the accuser of our brothers was no longer able to accuse our brothers before our God ?

What took place and when that meant accusations could no longer be made against our brothers by the accuser ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

All the best for a straight answer to your quetions LeClerc.
I will await them, but will not hold my breath  

Honey
JamesJah

Hallow one and all no church today?

There are now two spirits permeating mankind{see this weeks study WT} the spirit of the world now controlled by Satan and the spirit of peace that comes on those called out ones, those who have separated from the religion and politics of this system and have been adopted by the Christ as Kingdom hires.

Most do not know the reason for their woe but if you had looked up that scripture you would see what unfortunate position the world would be in until Jehovah instructs Jesus to abyss the one that is controlling the minds of all those that lack faith in the prophetic word, in an effort to hold onto their anti God independent spirit.

Revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.

You do have to read the history of the bible students for then when and how of this one>>>\/

Revelation 12:13, 14
Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.
Honey 56

Hello James,

According to WTBTS teaching Messiah Yeshua, returned invisibly and has been ruling since 1914.

According to revelation chapter 20, if that were true, satan should be in the abyss since then and unable to mislead the nations any longer.

Therefore, something doesn't add up.

Either Messiah Yeshua has returned for his millenial rule and satan is in the abyss.
or
Messiah Yeshua has not reurned and satan is still free to decieve the nations.

Which is it James?

Also, where was satan when he tempted the Messiah Yeshua at the beginning of His ministry?


Honey
Kernewek

James is at it again.

Quote:
The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you


Matthew 25;34-40

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.


Kettle pot black James,when was the last time a JW got his hands dirty giving help,spiritual comfort and norishment  to the unfortunate on the streets of britain.

I have seen many a nominal christian there though.

Kernewek.  
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
James is at it again.

Quote:
The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you


Matthew 25;34-40

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.


Kettle pot black James,when was the last time a JW got his hands dirty giving help,spiritual comfort and norishment  to the unfortunate on the streets of britain.

I have seen many a nominal christian there though.

Kernewek.  


You have the same problem the clergy have of not knowing who are Christ’s brothers so join the throng which cry when did we see you.

Matthew 12:48-50
As an answer he said to the one telling him: Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Hello James,

According to WTBTS teaching Messiah Yeshua, returned invisibly and has been ruling since 1914.

According to revelation chapter 20, if that were true, satan should be in the abyss since then and unable to mislead the nations any longer.

Therefore, something doesn't add up.

Either Messiah Yeshua has returned for his millenial rule and satan is in the abyss.
or
Messiah Yeshua has not reurned and satan is still free to decieve the nations.

Which is it James?

Also, where was satan when he tempted the Messiah Yeshua at the beginning of His ministry?


Honey


If you read Revelation you will see that Jesus does quite a few things when he comes to power, and the chaining of Satan is the last on the list.

Like the early bible students the JW critics seem to think every thing takes place quickly and visibly so that they can see it happen, they are quick to say every eye will see him but take no notices of the great list of prophecies that he said keep on the watch for because of you do not he will come as a thief and at an hour that you do not expect then your true nature and your true spirit will be revealed.

Matthew 24:43, 44
But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.


Matthew 24:45-47
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
[quote="Kernewek:83829"

You have the same problem the clergy have of not knowing who are Christ’s brothers so join the throng which cry when did we see you.

Matthew 12:48-50
As an answer he said to the one telling him: Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


I thought the WTBTS teaches that Messiah Yeshua has only 144.000 brothers?
Of course, the problem being there are no women amongst the number described at Revelation, they are all Jewish men!

So who are Yeshua's sisters James?

Honey
Kernewek

Quote:
You have the same problem the clergy have of not knowing who are Christ’s brothers so join the throng which cry when did we see you.


Matthew 12:48-50
As an answer he said to the one telling him: Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.[/quote]

As I have said before James you parrot fashion the scriptures,and yet you do not do YHWH's work you work for the watch tower,an organization founded on false prophesy.

Kernewek.
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
Quote:
You have the same problem the clergy have of not knowing who are Christ’s brothers so join the throng which cry when did we see you.


Matthew 12:48-50
As an answer he said to the one telling him: Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: Look! My mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


As I have said before James you parrot fashion the scriptures,and yet you do not do YHWH's work you work for the watch tower,an organization founded on false prophesy.

Kernewek.[/quote]

The WT was founded on bible research which has brought them to where they are today in the exulted position of have Jesus being able to say to them well done good and faithful slave you have been faithful over a few things I will position you over many things.

How many splinter groups of Babylon the Great will hear such a thing?

Matthew 25:21
His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.
Powwow

Examine where you splinter from James. The Seventh Day Adventists. lol
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83837"]


If you read Revelation you will see that Jesus does quite a few things when he comes to power, and the chaining of Satan is the last on the list.

Like the early bible students the JW critics seem to think every thing takes place quickly and visibly so that they can see it happen, they are quick to say every eye will see him but take no notices of the great list of prophecies that he said keep on the watch for because of you do not he will come as a thief and at an hour that you do not expect then your true nature and your true spirit will be revealed.



At revelation 20....
satan is placed in the abyss.
The dead in Christ are raised, then they take their place on the thrones of judgement, then they reign with Messiah Yeshua for the millennia
Then satan is released, then the great battle takes place, then the second ressurection.
satan and the false prophet are thrown into the fiery lake, then comes the judgement.
Then sin and death are destroyed.

Anyone can read for themselves the chronology of events in Revelation.

According to the WTBTS, Messiah Yeshua returned and the dead in Yeshua were resurrected in 1914, all invisibly and in secret (and this was not their first guess at when this would happen, there have been several unfulfilled prophesies regarding this over the last 100 years or so!) and according to what the WTBTS have taught you James, satan is still free to mislead the nations?

As I said something does not add up, but people can check for themselves, can't they?

Quote:
Also, where was satan when he tempted the Messiah Yeshua at the beginning of His ministry?


Honey.
JamesJah

pow wow wrote:
Examine where you splinter from James. The Seventh Day Adventists. lol



In the early days they had been one group that had kept on the watch, but some of their teachers had some serious teachings that were not in harmony with the bible teachings which was a shame really because they did have some idea of what Jesus asked of Christians in the last days.
Powwow

Oh I see, splinters are just dandy in your case then. lol Splinters and Babylon the Great James, remember your splinters and Babylon the Great.
And as a splinter of Babylon the Great, are you hearing James?
JamesJah

[quote="Honey 56:83849"]
Quote:
JamesJah wrote:



If you read Revelation you will see that Jesus does quite a few things when he comes to power, and the chaining of Satan is the last on the list.

Like the early bible students the JW critics seem to think every thing takes place quickly and visibly so that they can see it happen, they are quick to say every eye will see him but take no notices of the great list of prophecies that he said keep on the watch for because of you do not he will come as a thief and at an hour that you do not expect then your true nature and your true spirit will be revealed.



At revelation 20....
satan is placed in the abyss.
The dead in Christ are raised, then they take their place on the thrones of judgement, then they reign with Messiah Yeshua for the millennia
Then satan is released, then the great battle takes place, then the second ressurection.
satan and the false prophet are thrown into the fiery lake, then comes the judgement.
Then sin and death are destroyed.

Anyone can read for themselves the chronology of events in Revelation.

According to the WTBTS, Messiah Yeshua returned and the dead in Yeshua were resurrected in 1914, all invisibly and in secret (and this was not their first guess at when this would happen, there have been several unfulfilled prophesies regarding this over the last 100 years or so!) and according to what the WTBTS have taught you James, satan is still free to mislead the nations?

As I said something does not add up, but people can check for themselves, can't they?

Quote:
Also, where was satan when he tempted the Messiah Yeshua at the beginning of His ministry?


Honey.


Have you discovered yet how to spell God’s name?

Satan is not imprisoned until after the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

That war is when all the Kings of the earth are subject to the Christ. If you would like to know the details of the rest why not ask you JW friends they know the answers to your questions even if you do not.
JamesJah

pow wow wrote:
Oh I see, splinters are just dandy in your case then. lol Splinters and Babylon the Great James, remember your splinters and Babylon the Great.
And as a splinter of Babylon the Great, are you hearing James?


When leaving Babylon the Great it is also necessary to leave behind her teachings also, to get out and quit touching the unclean thing then Jehovah promises to take those ones in who wash their robes so that they can gain accesses to the trees of life, a knowledge which comes from a diligent search of the scriptures and not just a cursory glance.

Revelation 18:4
I heard another voice out of heaven say: Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:


Have you discovered yet how to spell God’s name?

Satan is not imprisoned until after the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

That war is when all the Kings of the earth are subject to the Christ. If you would like to know the details of the rest why not ask you JW friends they know the answers to your questions even if you do not.


A quick read of Revelation 20 will show your dishonesty regarding this James!

I can't believe how you think you can get away with misrepresenting YHWH's word in this way?

Honey
JamesJah

YHWH is not The Almighty God's name Honey, what is missing do you know?

The advantage of having all of God’s word is that you can find help in understanding in other parts of the scriptures.

It is the Almightiest way of dealing with those who hate the truth.

Daniel 2:44, 45
in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

What is happening here  



Jw critics can keep a look out for this because you will not be able to miss this event as it takes place, one of the next major event scenarios in prophecy.  

Revelation 18:9, 10
The kings of the earth who committed fornication with her and lived in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgement has arrived!
Kernewek

Quote:
YHWH is not The Almighty God's name Honey, what is missing do you know?


James you really are locked into the rubbish that the watch tower dish out.

God’s name in Hebrew is the tetragrammation of YHWH in Hebrew if it needs to be spelled out it is pronounced as “Yud kay vav kay, some translators to stop confusion insert the name Adonai.


Kernewek.
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83858"]YHWH is not The Almighty God's name Honey, what is missing do you know?



The truth James.
Honey 56

Quote:
JamesJah wrote:


Have you discovered yet how to spell God’s name?

Satan is not imprisoned until after the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

That war is when all the Kings of the earth are subject to the Christ. If you would like to know the details of the rest why not ask you JW friends they know the answers to your questions even if you do not.


A quick read of Revelation 20 will show your dishonesty regarding this James!

I can't believe how you think you can get away with misrepresenting YHWH's word in this way?

Honey


Do you have anything to say for yourself?
How much longer will you carry on this dishonesty James?
Jim

Honey;
You said;
"The truth, James."
Spot on!
To (mis)use the name of the LORD ia tantamount to breaking the commandment.
To Openly do so dishonours the person who so misuses it.
I value my LORD's name so highly that I could not bring it low, as do some quasi-Christian outfits.
They bring shame on One to whom only glory belongs.
Paul

Jim wrote:
Honey;
You said;
"The truth, James."
Spot on!
To (mis)use the name of the LORD ia tantamount to breaking the commandment.
To Openly do so dishonours the person who so misuses it.
I value my LORD's name so highly that I could not bring it low, as do some quasi-Christian outfits.
They bring shame on One to whom only glory belongs.


Which, perhaps, is a good case against the New Jerusalem Bible? It's not a dig. I know you like it, but I don't know why it had to break from the ancient Christian practice of using "Lord".

BTW, did you know Job was translated by JRR Tolkein?
JamesJah

Now try and keep to one subject at a time so as not to make wild statements with no evidence based on religious prejudice, the unrighteous are already fill up the world with anti God intellectual suppositions based on nothing who are mesmerising the unlearned, and the unsteady, into the cess pit of the worlds thinking.

1 Corinthians 2:11-13
For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the spirit of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words].

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:

The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you?

Revelation 12:10
I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Did you miss that loid voice?


When was it James that the accuser of our brothers was no longer able to accuse our brothers before our God ?

What took place and when that meant accusations could no longer be made against our brothers by the accuser ?


JamesJah wrote:

The WT was founded on bible research which has brought them to where they are today in the exulted position of have Jesus being able to say to them well done good and faithful slave you have been faithful over a few things I will position you over many things.


I will use the New World Translation James.

Matthew 5 NWT
17“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill;18for truly I say to ​YOU​ that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.19Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens.

Now James who is the slave who teaches others to break the following command.

Jeremiah 25 NWT
6And do not walk after other gods in order to serve them and to bow down to them,

Revelation 1
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Now James who is the voice who spoke with John if not the Almighty ?

LeClerc
JamesJah

Specialist subject LerClerc,

Needs its own thread.

Or you could look up reasoning from the scriptures published by the WTBT society?

Under Trinity
Honey 56

Dear LeClrec,
The previous post is James-speak for, "I dare not answer your questions, because the truth does not tally with what the WBTS teaches.

The same applies to these......

Quote:
When was it James that the accuser of our brothers was no longer able to accuse our brothers before our God ?

What took place and when that meant accusations could no longer be made against our brothers by the accuser ?


James dare not answer these as he has already been seen to be twisting the scripture at Revelation 20,  to fit in with the false teaching of the WTBTS.  

Honey
JamesJah

Exactly what twist where Honey?

Proverbs 16:25
There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83906"]Exactly what twist where Honey?



With pleasure James.....

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83837"]
Quote:


If you read Revelation you will see that Jesus does quite a few things when he comes to power, and the chaining of Satan is the last on the list.




At revelation 20....
satan is placed in the abyss.
The dead in Christ are raised, then they take their place on the thrones of judgement, then they reign with Messiah Yeshua for the millennia
Then satan is released, then the great battle takes place, then the second ressurection.
satan and the false prophet are thrown into the fiery lake, then comes the judgement.
Then sin and death are destroyed.

Anyone can read for themselves the chronology of events in Revelation.

According to the WTBTS, Messiah Yeshua returned and the dead in Yeshua were resurrected in 1914, all invisibly and in secret (and this was not their first guess at when this would happen, there have been several unfulfilled prophesies regarding this over the last 100 years or so!) and according to what the WTBTS have taught you James, satan is still free to mislead the nations?

As I said something does not add up, but people can check for themselves, can't they?

Quote:
Also, where was satan when he tempted the Messiah Yeshua at the beginning of His ministry?


Honey
JamesJah

Try one thing at a time Honey then there is no confusion.

Jesus sits at the right hand of his Father when he is resurrected, until his enemies are made a stole for his feet.

Psalm 110:1-3
The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet. The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:] Go subduing in the midst of your enemies. Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.

The rod of his strength will be sent out of Zion.

When he stands up to take power and start to rule his first task is to cast Satan from heaven.

Revelation 12:10,
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

This is the time of woe for the earth and its inhabitants.

Those keeping on the watch will notice this event and know why the earth is having so many problems.

During that time referred to as the last days Satan will know he has a short period of time, God’s people will escape.

Daniel 12:1, 2
During that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence.

Revelation 12:12
Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.


Is this bit within your grasp?
LeClerc

Morning James

JamesJah wrote:

The King has taken up his power and started his rule by casting Satan from heaven we have been doing that while the nominal Christian was asleep, even now they are making the excuse when did we see you?

Revelation 12:10
I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

Did you miss that loid voice?


When was it James that the accuser of our brothers was no longer able to accuse our brothers before our God ?

What took place and when that meant accusations could no longer be made against our brothers by the accuser ?


JamesJah wrote:

The WT was founded on bible research which has brought them to where they are today in the exulted position of have Jesus being able to say to them well done good and faithful slave you have been faithful over a few things I will position you over many things.


I will use the New World Translation James.

Matthew 5 NWT
17“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill;18for truly I say to ​YOU​ that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.19Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens.

Now James who is the slave who teaches others to break the following command.

Jeremiah 25 NWT
6And do not walk after other gods in order to serve them and to bow down to them,

Revelation 1
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Now James who is the voice who spoke with John if not the Almighty ?

Hi Honey have posted again to see if James can answer.

LeClerc
JamesJah

Little children must learn patience and try to respect their elders; if a person does not get the sense of something then they should endeavour to search out the truth of the matter, that is how the JW is taught to become well founded with the truth of the scriptures and have a solid faith in the teachings of Almighty God’s word rather than man made traditions, which are death dealing rather than life giving.

Revelation 1:1-3
A revelation by Jesus Christ,

which God gave him,

to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And

he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.

Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.
Honey 56

Hi LeClerc,

Quote:
Hi Honey have posted again to see if James can answer.

LeClerc


I am afraid that you will not get either a straight or an honest answer to your questions LeClerc.  

Even a young child could see that the chronology at Revelation 20, puts the chaining of satan as the first thing that happens, James is insisting that it is the last thing to occur in that chapter.
What can you say to a person who is so brainwashed that even when the truth is in front of them, in black and white, they still refuse to acknowlege it?

Thankfully anyone looking in can see the WTBTS manipulate the scriptures to fit in with their erroneous teaching, and if one person is warned against them, I for one rejoice!

Honey  
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,

Quote:
Hi Honey have posted again to see if James can answer.

LeClerc


I am afraid that you will not get either a straight or an honest answer to your questions LeClerc.  

Even a young child could see that the chronology at Revelation 20, puts the chaining of satan as the first thing that happens, James is insisting that it is the last thing to occur in that chapter.
What can you say to a person who is so brainwashed that even when the truth is in front of them, in black and white, they still refuse to acknowlege it?

Thankfully anyone looking in can see the WTBTS manipulate the scriptures to fit in with their erroneous teaching, and if one person is warned against them, I for one rejoice!

Honey  


Last event Honey, Last event of the last days, but just before the marriage of the lamb.
Jim

When will these so-called "Bible students" actually study the Bible, rather than Big Brother Brooklyn's theories?
After the '1914 generation' has popped its clogs...or hang on - I think I've missed a few new light-bulb changes out.
Pity none of them worked, isn't it?
JamesJah

Does fulfilment of scripture make you feel depressed Jim? What a pity to have missed out on the benefits of knowing the Almighty God’s purpose for us in this time of the end.

Who else is there that would have helped you to know why the world is sliding into to kayos culminating in the day of panic.

The promise is still open for a short while if you learn to have faith in what the bible really teaches.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection.
Jim

James;
I love it when the prophesies surrounding Jesus, God Incarnate, have been, are being, and will be fulfilled.
None of the misprophesies of the Russellite group have, though.
JamesJah

If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen.

Revelation 12:7-10
war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,

Would you like to tell us when you think this took place?
LeClerc

Morning Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,

Quote:
Hi Honey have posted again to see if James can answer.

LeClerc


I am afraid that you will not get either a straight or an honest answer to your questions LeClerc.  

Even a young child could see that the chronology at Revelation 20, puts the chaining of satan as the first thing that happens, James is insisting that it is the last thing to occur in that chapter.
What can you say to a person who is so brainwashed that even when the truth is in front of them, in black and white, they still refuse to acknowlege it?

Thankfully anyone looking in can see the WTBTS manipulate the scriptures to fit in with their erroneous teaching, and if one person is warned against them, I for one rejoice!

Honey  


Lets examine the manipulations Honey and see what is revealed.

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Little children must learn patience and try to respect their elders; if a person does not get the sense of something then they should endeavour to search out the truth of the matter, that is how the JW is taught to become well founded with the truth of the scriptures and have a solid faith in the teachings of Almighty God’s word rather than man made traditions, which are death dealing rather than life giving.

Revelation 1:1-3
A revelation by Jesus Christ,

which God gave him,

to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And

he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.

Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.


2 Corinthians 12 New World Translation.
1I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I shall pass on to supernatural visions and revelations of [the] Lord.2I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught away as such to the third heaven.3Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows—4that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak.

James, the revelations to which Paul is referring are these the revelations of Messiah Y'shua ?

LeClerc
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:83975"]If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen.



If they happen in heaven how do you know that they have taken place?
All the prophesy has and will take place on the earth, the prophesy does not refer to the heavens, does it?

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
Then
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years
Then
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Then
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Which part of this chronology do you not understand James?
How can Messiah Yeshua have returned invisibly, raised the dead in Christ invisibly and be ruling on the earth since 1914 and then you tell us that satan is still free to deceive the nations?

Please explain, if you can?

Honey
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen.

Revelation 12:7-10
war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,

Would you like to tell us when you think this took place?


Well Messiah Yeshua told His disciples (when He was here on earth with them)  that he witnessed  this event happen.(luke 10:18)
It is also spoken of at Ezekiel 28.(see verse 16)
And in the book of Job, satan was roaming the earth and in the time of Yeshua, he was able to tempt Messiah Yeshua on the earth  

So it would seem that 1914 is not the best guess, doesn't it?

Honey
Jim

Aw
You shouldn't have told him, Honey - he might have had to read the scriptures for a change withouth consulting his "Watchtower alamanac of misprophesies" - again.

Or is James saying that this invisible Jesus - who, BTW, keeps shifting the goalposts as his followes poptheir clogs- (Note: I use small 'h' in his, as this shows the limits the WTBTS put on God. ) , a Jesus limited in power, in influence, in accsability?
ROT!!!!!!!!!
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="Jim:83984"]Aw
You shouldn't have told him, Honey - he might have had to read the scriptures for a change withouth consulting his "Watchtower alamanac of misprophesies" - again.


Wouldn't that be incredible Jim! but sadly not allowed, did you know that the WTBTS are afraid that when people study the word for themselves, they end up agreeing with what people have believed since the Aspostles! I wonder how that happens then Jim?

How many times has the Messiah returned now Jim, according to the WTBTS and their false prophesy?

Was it you who said they must have Jesus on a peice of elastic?  

Honey
Kernewek

<< Revelation 20 OJB >>
HISGALUS 20
________________________________________
1And I saw a malach (an angel) coming down out of Shomayim having the mafte'ach (key) of the Tehom (Abyss) and a great chain in his hand, 2And he seized the Dragon, the NACHASH HaKadmoni, who is Malshin [samekh mem, the devil] and Hasatan. And he bound him for elef shanim (one thousand years), 3And threw him into the Tehom (Abyss), and shut and sealed it over him that he could not deceive any more the Goyim until the elef shanim (thousand years) were completed. After these things it is necessary for him to be released a short time. [DANIEL 6:17]
4And I saw kise'ot (thrones) and they sat on them and authority for mishpat (judgment) was given to them, and I saw the nefashot (souls) of the ones having been beheaded because of their edut (testimony) for Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach and because of the dvar Hashem and for those who did not worship the Chayyah [Beast, Anti-Moshiach] nor its Atzav and did not receive the tav (mark) on the metsakh (forehead) and on their yad (hand), and they awakened to Chayyim (Life) and reigned with Moshiach for elef shanim (a thousand years). [DANIEL 7:9] 5And the rest of the Mesim did not awaken to Chayyim (Life) until haelef shanim should be completed. This is the Techiyah HaRishonah (First Resurrection). 6Me'ushar and Kadosh (Blessed and Holy) is the one having a part in the Techiyah HaRishonah. On these ones the Mavet HaSheyni (the Second Death) does not have shilton (authority, samchut), but they will be kohanim of Hashem and of Moshiach, and will reign with him for elef shanim.
7And when the elef shanim are completed, Hasatan will be released from his beit hasohar (prison), 8And will go forth to deceive the Goyim in the four corners of ha'aretz, that is, Gog and Magog, to assemble them for milkhamah (war); the mispar (number) of them is like the sand of the seashore. [YESHAYAH 11:12; YECHEZKEL 7:2; 38:2; 39:1; 38:9,15] 9And they went up over the broad plain of the land and encircled the makhaneh (camp) of the Kadoshim and the Ir HaAhuvah (the beloved city) and Eish came down out of Shomayim and consumed them. [YECHEZKEL 38:9,16; TEHILLIM 87:2; YECHEZKEL 38:22; 39:6] 10And Hasatan, the one deceiving them, was cast into the Agam HaEish (fire) and gofrit (sulfur), where both the Chayyah [Anti-Moshiach] and the Navi Sheker (False Prophet) were, and they will be tormented yomam v'lailah l'Olemei Olamim (day and night forever and ever).

Honey, thought you’d like this it is from the orthodox Jewish Bible. And it shows the same sequence of events so clearly a child can understand it.

Kernewek.
JamesJah

LeClerc wrote:
Morning Honey

Honey 56 wrote:
Hi LeClerc,

Quote:
Hi Honey have posted again to see if James can answer.

LeClerc


I am afraid that you will not get either a straight or an honest answer to your questions LeClerc.  

Even a young child could see that the chronology at Revelation 20, puts the chaining of satan as the first thing that happens, James is insisting that it is the last thing to occur in that chapter.
What can you say to a person who is so brainwashed that even when the truth is in front of them, in black and white, they still refuse to acknowlege it?

Thankfully anyone looking in can see the WTBTS manipulate the scriptures to fit in with their erroneous teaching, and if one person is warned against them, I for one rejoice!

Honey  


Lets examine the manipulations Honey and see what is revealed.

Hi James

JamesJah wrote:
Little children must learn patience and try to respect their elders; if a person does not get the sense of something then they should endeavour to search out the truth of the matter, that is how the JW is taught to become well founded with the truth of the scriptures and have a solid faith in the teachings of Almighty God’s word rather than man made traditions, which are death dealing rather than life giving.

Revelation 1:1-3
A revelation by Jesus Christ,

which God gave him,

to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And

he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.

Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.


2 Corinthians 12 New World Translation.
1I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I shall pass on to supernatural visions and revelations of [the] Lord.2I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught away as such to the third heaven.3Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows—4that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak.

James, the revelations to which Paul is referring are these the revelations of Messiah Y'shua ?

LeClerc


Morning LerClerc

Are we getting our Revelations mixed up?
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
<< Revelation 20 OJB >>
HISGALUS 20
________________________________________
1And I saw a malach (an angel) coming down out of Shomayim having the mafte'ach (key) of the Tehom (Abyss) and a great chain in his hand, 2And he seized the Dragon, the NACHASH HaKadmoni, who is Malshin [samekh mem, the devil] and Hasatan. And he bound him for elef shanim (one thousand years), 3And threw him into the Tehom (Abyss), and shut and sealed it over him that he could not deceive any more the Goyim until the elef shanim (thousand years) were completed. After these things it is necessary for him to be released a short time. [DANIEL 6:17]
4And I saw kise'ot (thrones) and they sat on them and authority for mishpat (judgment) was given to them, and I saw the nefashot (souls) of the ones having been beheaded because of their edut (testimony) for Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach and because of the dvar Hashem and for those who did not worship the Chayyah [Beast, Anti-Moshiach] nor its Atzav and did not receive the tav (mark) on the metsakh (forehead) and on their yad (hand), and they awakened to Chayyim (Life) and reigned with Moshiach for elef shanim (a thousand years). [DANIEL 7:9] 5And the rest of the Mesim did not awaken to Chayyim (Life) until haelef shanim should be completed. This is the Techiyah HaRishonah (First Resurrection). 6Me'ushar and Kadosh (Blessed and Holy) is the one having a part in the Techiyah HaRishonah. On these ones the Mavet HaSheyni (the Second Death) does not have shilton (authority, samchut), but they will be kohanim of Hashem and of Moshiach, and will reign with him for elef shanim.
7And when the elef shanim are completed, Hasatan will be released from his beit hasohar (prison), 8And will go forth to deceive the Goyim in the four corners of ha'aretz, that is, Gog and Magog, to assemble them for milkhamah (war); the mispar (number) of them is like the sand of the seashore. [YESHAYAH 11:12; YECHEZKEL 7:2; 38:2; 39:1; 38:9,15] 9And they went up over the broad plain of the land and encircled the makhaneh (camp) of the Kadoshim and the Ir HaAhuvah (the beloved city) and Eish came down out of Shomayim and consumed them. [YECHEZKEL 38:9,16; TEHILLIM 87:2; YECHEZKEL 38:22; 39:6] 10And Hasatan, the one deceiving them, was cast into the Agam HaEish (fire) and gofrit (sulfur), where both the Chayyah [Anti-Moshiach] and the Navi Sheker (False Prophet) were, and they will be tormented yomam v'lailah l'Olemei Olamim (day and night forever and ever).

Honey, thought you’d like this it is from the orthodox Jewish Bible. And it shows the same sequence of events so clearly a child can understand it.

Kernewek.




The Muslims think in the same way as you, they seem to think just because the Almighty sais he is the only God, all they have to do is say Allah and we all know who we are talking about.

If that was the case we need only use the bible to find out what his will is.

The Almighty is not of two or three opinions; he is not a man who has no idea which direction he is going in, so they must have more than one Allah just as the Christian has more than one God or {Adonia}.

So which one is the Almighty who rules the universe and instructs Jesus the mighty god what to do?
Kernewek

Jamesjah wrote.

Quote:
The Muslims think in the same way as you, they seem to think just because the Almighty sais he is the only God, all they have to do is say Allah and we all know who we are talking about.

If that was the case we need only use the bible to find out what his will is.

The Almighty is not of two or three opinions; he is not a man who has no idea which direction he is going in, so they must have more than one Allah just as the Christian has more than one God or {Adonia}.

So which one is the Almighty who rules the universe and instructs Jesus the mighty god what to do?


Firstly James no muslim on this planet thinks like I do, to me Messiah Yeshua is the enbodyment of YHWH on the earth. The Immanuel, God with us.

To the muslim Messiah Yeshua is a lesser prophet than mohammad.

Next, yes one only needs the Bible, men and women do not need any other litriture to understand YHWH's word'

And Almighty God is YHWH, Messiah Yeshua and the Holy Spirit. All are one and the same Almighty God, Adonai.

Kernewek..
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
Jamesjah wrote.

Quote:
The Muslims think in the same way as you, they seem to think just because the Almighty sais he is the only God, all they have to do is say Allah and we all know who we are talking about.

If that was the case we need only use the bible to find out what his will is.

The Almighty is not of two or three opinions; he is not a man who has no idea which direction he is going in, so they must have more than one Allah just as the Christian has more than one God or {Adonia}.

So which one is the Almighty who rules the universe and instructs Jesus the mighty god what to do?


Firstly James no muslim on this planet thinks like I do, to me Messiah Yeshua is the enbodyment of YHWH on the earth. The Immanuel, God with us.

To the muslim Messiah Yeshua is a lesser prophet than mohammad.

Next, yes one only needs the Bible, men and women do not need any other litriture to understand YHWH's word'

And Almighty God is YHWH, Messiah Yeshua and the Holy Spirit. All are one and the same Almighty God, Adonai.

Kernewek..


Not according to Jesus and what He said in scripture, unless the Father is another God?

John 14:28, 29
You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. So now I have told you before it occurs, in order that, when it does occur, you may believe.

Just because scripture gives Jesus the rank of god and Lord it does not give him the rank of Almighty God.

The Devil is classified as a god but he also does not have the power of Jesus or the Father, the evidence of that was made when he was demoted to the earth for a short period of time.


2 Corinthians 4:4
Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.
Jim

Jesus gave the following instructions;
"If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it."
Only a god could do this.
So are you polytheist, James- yes or no?
If "yes", then sorry, you might as well be a Mormon.
If no, then you acknowledge, like Thomas, Jesus is God.
There is only one God, James.
JamesJah

What was the ransom for?

Could you approach the Almighty before the ransom?

Has man always needed a mediator?

Is Jesus a mediator, like Moses?

Exodus 20:19-21
They began to say to Moses:
You speak with us, and let us listen;
but let not God speak with us for fear we may die.

So Moses said to the people: Do not be afraid, because for the sake of putting you to the test the [true] God has come, and in order that the fear of him may continue before your faces that you may not sin. And the people kept standing at a distance, but Moses went near to the dark cloud mass where the [true] God was.

Should this be on the Trinity thread?
Kernewek

Quote:
Just because scripture gives Jesus the rank of god and Lord it does not give him the rank of Almighty God.


Scripture does indeed give Messiah Yeshua the rank of Almighty God read the correct translation of John 1;1
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NIV

1Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! OJB


Kernewek.
Honey 56

ed for James Jah


Quote:
Quote:
"JamesJah:83975"]If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen
.



If they happen in heaven how do you know that they have taken place?
All the prophesy has and will take place on the earth, the prophesy does not refer to the heavens, does it?

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
Then
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years
Then
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Then
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire
.

Which part of this chronology do you not understand James?
How can Messiah Yeshua have returned invisibly, raised the dead in Christ invisibly and be ruling on the earth since 1914 and then you tell us that satan is still free to deceive the nations?

Please explain, if you can?

Honey
JamesJah

Kernewek wrote:
Quote:
Just because scripture gives Jesus the rank of god and Lord it does not give him the rank of Almighty God.


Scripture does indeed give Messiah Yeshua the rank of Almighty God read the correct translation of John 1;1
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NIV

1Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! OJB


Kernewek.


Read it in Cninese then come back to me.
JamesJah

Honey 56 wrote:
ed for James Jah


Quote:
Quote:
"JamesJah:83975"]If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen
.



If they happen in heaven how do you know that they have taken place?
All the prophesy has and will take place on the earth, the prophesy does not refer to the heavens, does it?

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
Then
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years
Then
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Then
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire
.

Which part of this chronology do you not understand James?
How can Messiah Yeshua have returned invisibly, raised the dead in Christ invisibly and be ruling on the earth since 1914 and then you tell us that satan is still free to deceive the nations?

Please explain, if you can?

Honey


No Honey I do not tell you any thing of the sort so why do you say I do find me the post in which I have said what you say I have said so we know you are not twisting matters to fool those reading these posts.
Kernewek

Quote:
Read it in Cninese then come back to me.


James please tell me why I should read the Bible in Chinese, when it was written in Hebrew and Greek, and then translated into all the other  languages of the world.

Is it because Chinese is the only one compatible with the NWT and the WTBTS.

Kernewek.
Jim

Kernewek!
What a dreadful slur on the Chinese tounge!
(I'd go for Klingon, if I were you. It might suit the 'other worldly' nature of the standards of the NWT...)
Kernewek

Sorry Jim there was no slur intended, James said to read the Chinese Bible then get back to him.

I don't have a Chinese version but I have others which all say the same thing
     
             "the word was God".

Kernewek.
Jim

Exactly! With the sad deception of the NWT as an exception, all reputable translations have "and the Word was God."
That should tell the WTBTS something - but it doesn't.
JamesJah

We are not talking WT, here we are talking reading the bible, with a proper understanding.

John 1: 1 is misleading in most Trinitarian translations because it caters for a false surmise to start with.

The big difference in China is that if the church taught what it teaches in the Western world their teaching would be much the same as some of the Chinese religions so why should they give up their pagan faiths for something which is the same as what they have?

So in Hong Kong the only images that are display in the church is a plain cross on white washed walls.

To help them distinguish their plethora of gods from the Almighty they use different picture grams entirely for different gods.

John 1: 1 for the Chinese Christian the two gods are distinguished by rank as they should be in all other bibles, also the Chinese have a better understanding of spirit because of the way that it is written, they know what it is.
Jim

Er...
You're at it again, James.
Your anti-Catholic button is on positive.
There are more - far more - churches in China and Hong kong; Spirit filled believers sharing their faith in Jesus, God Incarnate, in an extraordinary way. So extraordinary, in fact, that the 'underground church' in China, as opposed to the State sanctioned church, is growing faster than anywhere else on this planet. There are now between seventy and a hundred million born again believers.
JamesJah

It is no good running numbers at me Jim; the Almighty God I have faith in used just one man to bring down false religion that was popular in the days of the Philistines.

You having no love for the truth Jim, will not change the truth by the number that hate it, the truth still stands, regardless of how much dictators hate it.

I see they are making Christmas compulsory on here as much as any where in England.
Jim

I'm not IN England.
Christmas is not compulsory.
Yet celebrating the Nativity of Yeshua, God Incarnate, is a source of joy to me - regardless of when I do it!
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
I'm not IN England.
Christmas is not compulsory.
Yet celebrating the Nativity of Yeshua, God Incarnate, is a source of joy to me - regardless of when I do it!


How old was Jesus when the Magi arrived?
Jim

Scripture doesn't say.
Presumably, though, since Herod ordered all under-two year old boys massacred, He would be between ten days (Having been returned from Jerusalem) and about two.
Why?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Honey 56 wrote:
ed for James Jah


Quote:
Quote:
"JamesJah:83975"]If like the first prophecy Jim, it takes place in heaven and you can not see it happen how will you accept that it did happen
.



If they happen in heaven how do you know that they have taken place?
All the prophesy has and will take place on the earth, the prophesy does not refer to the heavens, does it?

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
Then
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years
Then
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Then
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire
.

Which part of this chronology do you not understand James?
How can Messiah Yeshua have returned invisibly, raised the dead in Christ invisibly and be ruling on the earth since 1914 and then you tell us that satan is still free to deceive the nations?

Please explain, if you can?

Honey


No Honey I do not tell you any thing of the sort so why do you say I do find me the post in which I have said what you say I have said so we know you are not twisting matters to fool those reading these posts.


Are you now saying that I am misrepresenting what you teach/post ?
If so please show me where you feel I am 'twisting matters', I will then either prove you wrong or apologise, whatever is necessary to put things right.

Please answer this post James, as I would lke the opportunity to straighten things out.

Honey
JamesJah

Morning all is this true, does it make revelation a waste of time?

Ecclesiastes 1:15
That which is made crooked cannot be made straight, and that which is wanting cannot possibly be counted.  
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Scripture doesn't say.
Presumably, though, since Herod ordered all under-two year old boys massacred, He would be between ten days (Having been returned from Jerusalem) and about two.
Why?


Jim, you have it quite correct so what is the three wise men doing coming to a stable with a baby in a manger¿¿??
Jim

Not a clue, James.
That is not what is taught in our denomination.

BTW Where did you get the number "three" from?
JamesJah

Morning Honey so generous this morning I see.

If you had been among those spoken of in scripture willing to learn what Jehovah teaches in his word you would not have such a false idea of the coming of the Christ and what he is doing and when he is doing it.

Revelation twenty has not taken place yet, if it had the world of mankind would be under fully under the Kingdom rule.

You obviously do not see that what is taking place is over an extensive period of time, even though you have had the scriptures posted here it is obvious you have not understood them because of your bet towards rejecting any thing that might get you to see that the teachings of the WT are correct and helpful to understanding scripture, while on the other hand those who practice independent thinking have little chance of understanding any thing.

So do you understand that Jesus started his rule when Satan was cast to the earth?

Revelation 12:7-11
war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.

Psalm 110:1-3
The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.  
The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:] Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.

Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force..
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Not a clue, James.
That is not what is taught in our denomination.

BTW Where did you get the number "three" from?


The same place I got the wise men coming to a manger Jim Babylon the great.

I watched the history of the church from Constantine last night how any one can take that religious organisation seriously beggars belief.

I did not realise so many Popes murdered to get the job, and they have the cheek to say they have a direct line to Peter, what a sham?
Jim

Yes, it is indeed a shame, that may sought to become pope or patriarch to acheive power or worldly pleasure.
Do I condemn them?
No.
I pity them for so misleading the flock, mistreating the sheep, misdirecting the church.
I have no idea what was in their mind,
Judgement, however, belongs to the LORD, thankfully, and not to me.
JamesJah

Once again you are right in what you say Jim, which is why scripture where the judgement of the Lord comes upon her, recommends that honest hearted ones remove themselves before it is too late.

Her false teachings have not been completely eradicated from most of the brake away groups, many are still tainted with teachings so entrenched that many just find they cannot brake away from them, the trinity is a prime example

Revelation 18:4-8
I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.
Honey 56

Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:84057"]Morning Honey so generous this morning I see.


There is no need for the sarcastic tone James, I would like this accusation of me 'twisting things ' cleared up,

Quote:
Revelation twenty has not taken place yet, if it had the world of mankind would be under fully under the Kingdom rule.

.

So do you understand that Jesus started his rule when Satan was cast to the earth?



So now you are saying that Revelation 20 has not taken place yet? (this is what I have been trying to tell you all through this thread James|!)

Just to be absolutely clear,  are you now saying, and is the official teaching of the WTBTS.  that Messiah Yeshua has not started His reign and the dead in Christ have not been raised ?
I woud appreciate an answer to this post please James.

Honey
JamesJah

Here Honey have a quick look at a couple of verses from this weeks bible reading to see what it is saying to us.

Zephaniah 3:9
For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.’

Zephaniah 3:11, 12
For then I shall remove from the midst of you your haughtily exultant ones; and you will never again be haughty in my holy mountain. And I shall certainly let remain in the midst of you a people humble and lowly, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah.
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Once again you are right in what you say Jim, which is why scripture where the judgement of the Lord comes upon her, recommends that honest hearted ones remove themselves before it is too late.

Her false teachings have not been completely eradicated from most of the brake away groups, many are still tainted with teachings so entrenched that many just find they cannot brake away from them, the trinity is a prime example

.[/b]


There are many false religions in the world today James, just as there are many false prophets, one of  the largest and most deceiving being the Watch Tower and Bible tract Society, or Jehovah's witnesses, they have been manipulating the word of YHWH, and deceiving the world for the past hundred years or so with their false porphecy, they have innocent blood on their hands and according to scripture are headed for the judgement of YHWH especially for the way they mislead innocent and often well meaning people.
You are correct that Revelation warns us to "Get out of her my people". thankfully devout Christians all over the world are leaving these false religions in their droves and they are aligning themselves with Messiah Yeshua's body, the true church, which is not a building made by human hands, but is a vast group of Spirit dwelt, born again believers and it is the biggest growing body in the world today.

http://youtu.be/VHfTtTIFB5s
Messiah Yeshua said "I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it"
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Here Honey have a quick look at a couple of verses from this weeks bible reading to see what it is saying to us.

Zephaniah 3:9
For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.’

Zephaniah 3:11, 12
For then I shall remove from the midst of you your haughtily exultant ones; and you will never again be haughty in my holy mountain. And I shall certainly let remain in the midst of you a people humble and lowly, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah.


I would prefer it if you could attempt to answer my post honestly please James.

Quote:
Quote:
[quote="JamesJah:84057"]Morning Honey so generous this morning I see.


There is no need for the sarcastic tone James, I would like this accusation of me 'twisting things ' cleared up,

Quote:
Revelation twenty has not taken place yet, if it had the world of mankind would be under fully under the Kingdom rule.

.

So do you understand that Jesus started his rule when Satan was cast to the earth?




So now you are saying that Revelation 20 has not taken place yet? (this is what I have been trying to tell you all through this thread James|!)

Just to be absolutely clear,  are you now saying, and is the official teaching of the WTBTS.  that Messiah Yeshua has not started His reign and the dead in Christ have not been raised ?


Honey
JamesJah

No!
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
No!


No! to what James?

Just to be absolutely clear,  are you now saying, and is the official teaching of the WTBTS.  that Messiah Yeshua has not started His reign and the dead in Christ have not been raised ?

or

are you saying that Messiah Yeshua has started His reign and the dead in Messiah Yeshua have been raised?

Which is it James? just to be absolutely clear.
Kernewek

Quote:
John 1: 1 for the Chinese Christian the two gods are distinguished by rank as they should be in all other bibles, also the Chinese have a better understanding of spirit because of the way that it is written, they know what it is.


James I took your advice and read the Chinese Bible.

John 1;1
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.


James this by the way is a direct translation from the Chinese Bible. As you can see it appears to agree with us nominal Christians.

Kernewek.
JamesJah

The Chinese always use Almighty God for Jehovah or the first God in John 1:1not God as is common among the nominal’s Kernewek.

Putting sung befor Dia and Dia is not used for the other god, [Cantonese sounds.]]
Jim

James;
This is not the case. 'Always' is a sweeping term, and in this case has'nt swept up much. I know a fair few Chnese believers - born and bred in China, given new lives in Christ through the work of Jackie Pullinger-To and the St. Stephen Society - and thir understanding of the text and nature of John 1:1 is absolutely straight down the line.
"And the Word was God."
JamesJah

They like you Jim, have the doctrine of the trinity so imbedded that they have to see it that way, but that is not the way it is written in Chinese.

If you ask most Chinese they will tell you that there are many gods and many spirits which the gods have.

Acting started with the Chinese who right from the beginning of their history found ways of keeping the demonic spirits alive by acting.

In the Western world the motives for acting have been hidden.
Honey 56

ed for James Jah


Quote:
JamesJah wrote:
No!  


No! to what James?

Just to be absolutely clear,  are you now saying, and is the official teaching of the WTBTS.  that Messiah Yeshua has not started His reign and the dead in Christ have not been raised ?

or

are you saying that Messiah Yeshua has started His reign and the dead in Messiah Yeshua have been raised?

Which is it James? just to be absolutely clear.
Jim

Whoa, James!
Try some research before you post.
"Indoctrination" is exactly what they do not have!
The Society of St. Stephen ( named after a decrepit church hall loand to them) was a group of drug addicts, pimps, gamblers, prostitutes, thieves and other criminals within the 'hidden city' of Hong Kong. Jackie Pullinger's only qualification was one in music! Yet, by the power of the Holy Spirit, these people, whom no-one else touched with a ten-foot barge pole, became believers amid the indescribable squalor of the situation. THey studied scripture together - without any theological training and Western interferance, and the news of the Christ who is God who could and did change lives spread.
After the British relinquished Hong Kong, the 'hidden city' was demolished. But, like an ant's nest kicked open, the St Stephens lot spread into Hong Kong, China, Vietnam, Burma, Indonesia and other areas, working  with the kind of people they once were, and changing lives through the power of the Spirit!
You MUST read "Chasing the Dragon" (a reference to heron) and "A crack in the wall", both by Jackie Pullinger-To.
If you do so, they will change your life.
JamesJah

Neither Honey

Your mix and match is what the problem is, you do not get what you think one should get, in the same way the bible students did not get what they thought they ought to get, when Jesus stood up to start his rule.

The entrenched ideas of many keep them confused on this subject, like your good self, you like may seem to think everything about the second coming will be obvious, which obviously it is not, but prejudice for one belief system over another is keeping many blind to what is actually the truth. People like yourself who rejects out of hand the WT help because of it not being popular.

We have a list of signs to look for which Jesus gave his disciples, and a list of end time prophecies which can be found in scripture.

If you can not see the signs and do not know what Gods will is for the time of the only people that can really help are JWs who in turn will point you towards a study of scripture so that you and any one else can see for themselves what is in reality the truth of the matter.
JamesJah

Jim wrote:
Whoa, James!
Try some research before you post.
"Indoctrination" is exactly what they do not have!
The Society of St. Stephen ( named after a decrepit church hall loand to them) was a group of drug addicts, pimps, gamblers, prostitutes, thieves and other criminals within the 'hidden city' of Hong Kong. Jackie Pullinger's only qualification was one in music! Yet, by the power of the Holy Spirit, these people, whom no-one else touched with a ten-foot barge pole, became believers amid the indescribable squalor of the situation. THey studied scripture together - without any theological training and Western interferance, and the news of the Christ who is God who could and did change lives spread.
After the British relinquished Hong Kong, the 'hidden city' was demolished. But, like an ant's nest kicked open, the St Stephens lot spread into Hong Kong, China, Vietnam, Burma, Indonesia and other areas, working  with the kind of people they once were, and changing lives through the power of the Spirit!
You MUST read "Chasing the Dragon" (a reference to heron) and "A crack in the wall", both by Jackie Pullinger-To.
If you do so, they will change your life.


Which god do they think Jesus is?
Honey 56

JamesJah wrote:
Neither Honey

Your mix and match is what the problem is, you do not get what you think one should get, in the same way the bible students did not get what they thought they ought to get, when Jesus stood up to start his rule.

The entrenched ideas of many keep them confused on this subject, like your good self, you like may seem to think everything about the second coming will be obvious, which obviously it is not, but prejudice for one belief system over another is keeping many blind to what is actually the truth. People like yourself who rejects out of hand the WT help because of it not being popular.

We have a list of signs to look for which Jesus gave his disciples, and a list of end time prophecies which can be found in scripture.

If you can not see the signs and do not know what Gods will is for the time of the only people that can really help are JWs who in turn will point you towards a study of scripture so that you and any one else can see for themselves what is in reality the truth of the matter.


Ok James,
You say I have misunderstood, so let's start again.
Have you been taught by the WTBTS that Messiah Yeshua is present and reigning invisibly since 1914 ?

Have you also been taught that the first resurrection of the 'dead in Christ' also started then?

Have you also been taught that satan is still free to deceive the nations at this present time?  (in other words, satan is not in the abyss)

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