Archive for nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Nglreturns is a forum to discuss religion, philosophy, ethics etc...

NGLReturns Daily Quiz - Play here!
 



       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Shaker

Widdecombe: "Atheism rational & thought-through&

In the midst of huffing, puffing and fulminating against the Guides' decision to get with the times, Ann tells us what many of us already know:

Quote:
Former MP Ann Widdecombe today condemned the Girl Guide movement for deleting their oath to God. Speaking on Premier Christian Radio she described the "appalling decision" as an example of the "me society" and claimed it was totally unnecessary.

"The crucial thing is this," she told Premierís breakfast show. "Removing God and saying Iíll be true to myself. If you want an example of the ĎMe Societyí, you can look to the Girl Guides."

She claimed the move was to accommodate a tiny minority of youngsters, saying: "Any census of this country shows that the overwhelming majority of people classify themselves as belonging to a religion. What the Girl Guide group is doing is actually trying to accommodate a tiny minority Ė and it is a tiny minority of youngsters who would have already embraced, on rational and thought-through grounds, atheism. This is a minority. Adults Ė yes, but youngsters do not reason themselves into that position that young. I think it is an appalling decision."

Asked if she thought this might represent a thin end of the wedge and a prelude to further deletion of Christianity in schools, Ms Widdecombe said; "As long as we have an established Church we will have a basis in law of ensuring the teaching of religion in schools. But ask yourself about the state of ignorance that there is about the Christian religion in schools. They donít know the Ten Commandments, some of them donít know the significance of Good Friday, and they canít say the Lordís Prayer."

Ann Widdecombe was speaking with Premier Christian Radioís John Pantry and Nage. Premier is Britainís largest Christian broadcaster.


Cheers, Ann. An established church next on the hit list
Ketty

"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the Queen and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide law."


[pondering]So, what happens if being true to myself and in developing my beliefs, I discover I am far more important to myself than anything or anyone else, and therefore I find myself in conflict with 'serving the Queen and my community, and helping other people'?   It's my belief and being true to myself, so nobody can say it's wrong.[/pondering]

I agree with Ann, it's another demonstration of 'it's all about me'.
Shaker

Ketty wrote:
"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the Queen and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide law."

[pondering]So, what happens if being true to myself and in developing my beliefs, I discover I am far more important to myself than anything or anyone else, and therefore I find myself in conflict with 'serving the Queen and my community, and helping other people'? It's my belief and being true to myself, so nobody can say it's wrong.[/pondering]

I agree with Ann, it's another demonstration of 'it's all about me'.

Presumably deciding that your own self is far more important than anything else would be in conflict with serving your community and helping other people, wouldn't it? If your own self is more important than all other things, you're not likely to give a stuff about your community and other people, and presumably wouldn't be in the Guides in the first place?

Interesting that you play the "it's my belief" card against an organisation for young girls when that has always historically applied to religionists, especially when they're being dicks (i.e. the vast majority of the time) and (a) discriminating against those out-groups they don't like (gays/Jews/Catholics/Protestants/other) or (b) trying to get out of obeying the laws the rest of us have to abide by (inclusive adoption agencies/conducting civil partnerships/paying parking charges) or (c) both.

Another thought that occurs to me. Given that Widdy is a former MP (i.e. she has no public office, no consituency or responsibility for anyone else) isn't the fact that she has been quoted on this issue on radio itself a demonstration that "it's all about me" - in this case, her? Why was her opinion, hers specifically, seen as so valuable that it had to be sought out over and above mine, or yours?
The Boyg

Re: Widdecombe: "Atheism rational & thought-through

Shaker wrote:
In the midst of huffing, puffing and fulminating against the Guides' decision to get with the times, Ann tells us what many of us already know:

Quote:
Former MP Ann Widdecombe today condemned the Girl Guide movement for deleting their oath to God. Speaking on Premier Christian Radio she described the "appalling decision" as an example of the "me society" and claimed it was totally unnecessary.

"The crucial thing is this," she told Premierís breakfast show. "Removing God and saying Iíll be true to myself. If you want an example of the ĎMe Societyí, you can look to the Girl Guides."

She claimed the move was to accommodate a tiny minority of youngsters, saying: "Any census of this country shows that the overwhelming majority of people classify themselves as belonging to a religion. What the Girl Guide group is doing is actually trying to accommodate a tiny minority Ė and it is a tiny minority of youngsters who would have already embraced, on rational and thought-through grounds, atheism. This is a minority. Adults Ė yes, but youngsters do not reason themselves into that position that young. I think it is an appalling decision."

Asked if she thought this might represent a thin end of the wedge and a prelude to further deletion of Christianity in schools, Ms Widdecombe said; "As long as we have an established Church we will have a basis in law of ensuring the teaching of religion in schools. But ask yourself about the state of ignorance that there is about the Christian religion in schools. They donít know the Ten Commandments, some of them donít know the significance of Good Friday, and they canít say the Lordís Prayer."

Ann Widdecombe was speaking with Premier Christian Radioís John Pantry and Nage. Premier is Britainís largest Christian broadcaster.


Cheers, Ann. An established church next on the hit list


She appears to be saying that atheism can be the end result of rational thought but that this is unlikely to be the case with girls of an age to join the Guides.

Which I think is incredibly patronising.
northernstar

Ann Widdecombe, the thinking woman's cushion, as Shaker says, why is her opinion so important? Why is devotion to a non existent god so important? I'll be honest and say I wouldn't join the Boys Brigade because that would have meant having to say I  believed in god, even at the age of 9/10, I was atheist. She's making a fuss about nothing.
genghiscant

Quote:
What the Girl Guide group is doing is actually trying to accommodate a tiny minority Ė and it is a tiny minority of youngsters who would have already embraced, on rational and thought-through grounds, atheism. This is a minority. Adults Ė yes, but youngsters do not reason themselves into that position that young. I think it is an appalling decision."


All this means is that most youngsters haven't escaped their religious indoctrination yet.
Lexilogio

I suspect this decision has been taken because there is a fear that girls aren't joining the guides because they see religion as an obstacle. I'm not sure that is the case. Many of those I know who won't join hold that view because it is an organisation founded by Baden-Powell, and it is his aims which they find difficult.

As for the promise.
I have no objection to losing the promise to God, if that doesn't suit all. Perhaps an alternate promise would help. I'm inclined to think that those who still wish to promise to serve God should be allowed to.
Not keen on the "me" aspect though. Would prefer a promise to serve the community.
Shaker

Lexilogio wrote:
As for the promise.
I have no objection to losing the promise to God, if that doesn't suit all. Perhaps an alternate promise would help. I'm inclined to think that those who still wish to promise to serve God should be allowed to.

I'm sure they are, aren't they?
Quote:
Not keen on the "me" aspect though. Would prefer a promise to serve the community.

Covered by "I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the Queen and my community, to help other people", surely?
Lexilogio

Shaker wrote:
Lexilogio wrote:
As for the promise.
I have no objection to losing the promise to God, if that doesn't suit all. Perhaps an alternate promise would help. I'm inclined to think that those who still wish to promise to serve God should be allowed to.

I'm sure they are, aren't they?
Quote:
Not keen on the "me" aspect though. Would prefer a promise to serve the community.

Covered by "I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the Queen and my community, to help other people", surely?


Yes, but it doesn't read right.

I'd prefer:

I promise that I will do my best, to listen and learn from those around me, to serve the Queen and my community, and to help other people.
genghiscant

Quote:
They donít know the Ten Commandments, some of them donít know the significance of Good Friday, and they canít say the Lordís Prayer."


I'll bet that some of then don't know the Theory of Evolution, the nine times table, the fact that some of them will be dead next week.

What a stupid thing to say.
SusanDoris

genghiscant wrote:

All this means is that most youngsters haven't escaped their religious indoctrination yet.

Yes, just what I've been thinking.

       nglreturns.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> All faiths and none
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum