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Silver

Workers on pyarmids were not slaves

The location of tombs discovered in Egypt helps prove the men who built the great pyramids were not slaves after all, say archeologists.

A set of tombs belonging to the workers who built them has been discovered which sheds light on how they lived and ate more than 4,000 years ago.

The thousands of men who built the last remaining wonder of the ancient world regularly ate meat and worked three-month rotating shifts.

They were so well regarded they were also given the honour of being buried in mud brick tombs within the shadow of the sacred pyramids they worked on if they died during construction.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/scienc...ient-slavery-riddle-pyramids.html


Another blow for the Moses fable.
Dave B

There was an very good drama-documentary on Chan 4 (I think) some years ago. Showed pretty conclusively that slave labour would have been almost impossible for the numbers the task involved. The cost in food along to maintain the work effort would have been prohibitive without "taxing" all communities for food and labour on a "revolving" basis.

Good medical care would also have been essential, they could not afford to loose too many workers to complications from the minor injuries inevitable in such work. Major injuries, broken bones etc. would also probably have been given the best care available - the villages would need the labour themselves later.

All this to bury one person though? I will not give my thoughts on that aspect lest I get called a WUM again!
LornaDoone40

Quote:
I will not give my thoughts on that aspect lest I get called a WUM again!


Ah but Dave - apparantly we are all wums, or budding wums, or has-been wums, didn't you know that?  
Dave B

LornaDoone40 wrote:
Quote:
I will not give my thoughts on that aspect lest I get called a WUM again!


Ah but Dave - apparantly we are all wums, or budding wums, or has-been wums, didn't you know that?  
'Course I do - all part of the fun unless it is meant really spitefully! A bit of gentle WUMming is the spice of life, stops one being too officious, unctuous or sanctimonious.
Ketty

LornaDoone40 wrote:
Quote:
I will not give my thoughts on that aspect lest I get called a WUM again!


Ah but Dave - apparantly we are all wums, or budding wums, or has-been wums, didn't you know that?  


Now Lorna!!  You're just being a WUM, now!
LornaDoone40

Judders Lady...

Re: Workers on pyarmids were not slaves

Silver wrote:
The location of tombs discovered in Egypt helps prove the men who built the great pyramids were not slaves after all, say archeologists.

A set of tombs belonging to the workers who built them has been discovered which sheds light on how they lived and ate more than 4,000 years ago.

The thousands of men who built the last remaining wonder of the ancient world regularly ate meat and worked three-month rotating shifts.

They were so well regarded they were also given the honour of being buried in mud brick tombs within the shadow of the sacred pyramids they worked on if they died during construction.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/scienc...ient-slavery-riddle-pyramids.html


Another blow for the Moses fable.


That just leaves the alien theories and the questions not answered.


Who really built the pyramids plus how and when?


The truth is they believe a burial cave tells them how the person lived.
Did they live and eat in the cave before they died?
How do they know the burial cave is from the time of the pyramids being built if no one can clearly pin point the age?

It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them.

I think the many sites and theories with all their arguments show that man is no nearer finding the truth. They have the pyramids and the quarries where they believe the stones came from.
But they have no answers to why, where, when or whom.


Love Lynne.xx
Dave B

"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?


Come Dave B,

Why play the old 'reference card'?
If you had researched these things you would not need references.
Why leave yourself so open?

The facts are as I have told you when you have gone through all the evidence that there is you will know why these basic facts are the truth.

Love JL.xx
Dave B

Judders Lady... wrote:
Dave B wrote:
"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?


Come Dave B,

Why play the old 'reference card'?
If you had researched these things you would not need references.
Why leave yourself so open?

The facts are as I have told you when you have gone through all the evidence that there is you will know why these basic facts are the truth.

Love JL.xx
Proving the veracity of a statement is the duty of the person making it.

I would not trust anything you say without external verification oh Queen of Spin. I am even tempted to check your Bible quotes to see if you have changed them for your own ends.
T8-eh-T8

Did a quick Google of Dr Zahi Hawass, the archaeologist behind these theories.

Here is his Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahi_Hawass

Here are some of his attributed quotes:

Quote:
"For 18 centuries [the Jews] were dispersed throughout the world. They went to America and took control of its economy. They have a plan. Although they are few in number, they control the entire world... they are always united over a single view. They always move together, even if in the wrong direction.... Look at the control they have over America and the media.... It was unity that gave them this power."


Quote:
"The concept of killing women, children and elderly people... seems to run in the blood of the Jews of Palestine. [In fact,] it seems to have become part of the false faith of this people, who is tormenting us in our [own] homeland.” "When I speak of the Jewish faith, I do not mean their [original] faith, but the faith that they forged and contaminated with their poison, which is aimed against all of mankind... The only thing that the Jews have learned from history is methods of tyranny and torment - so much so that they have become artists in this field. They have done to the Palestinians what Pharaoh and Sargon [of Akkad] did to the Jews..


So perhaps not the most dispassionate and neutral observer, it would seem he has am agenda of trying to diminish Jewish history which influences his objectivity.

Although TBF I am basing this conclusion on a Wiki, so am prepared to be shown as wrong.
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
Dave B wrote:
"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?


Come Dave B,

Why play the old 'reference card'?
If you had researched these things you would not need references.
Why leave yourself so open?

The facts are as I have told you when you have gone through all the evidence that there is you will know why these basic facts are the truth.

Love JL.xx
Proving the veracity of a statement is the duty of the person making it.

I would not trust anything you say without external verification oh Queen of Spin. I am even tempted to check your Bible quotes to see if you have changed them for your own ends.



There is another way of proving it...
You think you know about the Pyramids. So if you are saying I am wrong then answer the questions...

How, when and by whom  were the Pyramids built?

What is the alien theory and how does the Pyramids figure in line with what we call the North pole figure in the alien theory?

Which of my bible quotes from the KJV is incorrect?

You see the bluff is easy to see when shown for what it is.

If you had knowledge about the Pyramids and what has been believed or taught about them over the years by those who have studied or even knew me. The post you wrote would not be here for me to answer.

Love JL.xx
Dave B

Judders Lady... wrote:
You think you know about the Pyramids. So if you are saying I am wrong then answer the questions...

How, when and by whom  were the Pyramids built?
I would certainly need to do a refresher on that subject - but if I were to offer information I would certainly offer the sources I used automatically, since this is one of those areas that is a triangle between fact, theory and legend. I would tend to go only for that information for which there is irrefutable evidence - no legendary stuff (though that has its own literary interest.) It is many years since I took an interest in such I admit.

Judders Lady... wrote:
What is the alien theory and how does the Pyramids figure in line with what we call the North pole figure in the alien theory?
As with Stone Henge and many other places there are theories, as yet unproven, that are of interest in a sort of literary way - but I am not that interested in them. OK for those that believe in aliens and the supernatural I suppose.

Judders Lady... wrote:
Which of my bible quotes from the KJV is incorrect?
None that I know of, but I am allowed my opinion of you garnered from what I have seen you do with other people's words and ideas.

Judders Lady... wrote:
You see the bluff is easy to see when shown for what it is.
There was no "bluff", merely an opinion. And I think you really do need to check the English in your posts, perhaps you meant, "You see how easy  the bluff is to expose for what it is."?

Judders Lady... wrote:
If you had knowledge about the Pyramids and what has been believed or taught about them over the years by those who have studied or even knew me. The post you wrote would not be here for me to answer.
I will believe what have been proven about them and theories that hold scientific water - not what some non-academic theorist constructs from evidence that is usually ambiguous.

Hmm, am I supposed to be impressed that others have "studied" you? Or even "known" you? Why on earth should I take the opinion of those who are taken in by your words as being of any value if I do not take them as such? Or was that supposed to mean, . . . "by those who have studies or those who have known me . . ."? Never mind, similar answer applies - which sources did they study and how is knowing you relevant to this particular discussion? Do you have a list of your published papers and any citations?
Dave B

I read the Wiki entry you quoted T8. I normally have a measure of respect for Zahi Hawass, especially where the repatriation of relics is concerned - he did great work to bring Egyptian archaeology up t o a scientific standard. But some of the quotes in that article bother me. Best he keep to the facts and supportable theories rather than gallivanting out into the land of legend (except as just a bit of acknowledged garnish on the plate).

All quotes bother me when I see  . . . and [.....] used, I have to wonder what the missing bits actually say and what the substitution was for. But then I am just an old sceptic.
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
You think you know about the Pyramids. So if you are saying I am wrong then answer the questions...

How, when and by whom  were the Pyramids built?
I would certainly need to do a refresher on that subject - but if I were to offer information I would certainly offer the sources I used automatically, since this is one of those areas that is a triangle between fact, theory and legend. I would tend to go only for that information for which there is irrefutable evidence - no legendary stuff (though that has its own literary interest.) It is many years since I took an interest in such I admit.


I tend to go for that which can be proved.
Only facts known are the Pyramids and the belief they know which Quarries the stones came from.
Alot is left to supposition because there is only written accounts of people who visited and asked questions (throughout history)  after they were built.  So whilst I agree I would not take legendary stuff for the actual truth about Pyramids, I do feel the Pyramids were definitely built to last.
How or when or by whom is not really known by factual evidence.
Quote:

Judders Lady... wrote:
What is the alien theory and how does the Pyramids figure in line with what we call the North pole figure in the alien theory?
As with Stone Henge and many other places there are theories, as yet unproven, that are of interest in a sort of literary way - but I am not that interested in them. OK for those that believe in aliens and the supernatural I suppose.


I don't believe in Aliens I believe the Aliens to be a smoke screen for other things which are man related.
Quote:

Judders Lady... wrote:
Which of my bible quotes from the KJV is incorrect?
None that I know of, but I am allowed my opinion of you garnered from what I have seen you do with other people's words and ideas.

In so many words, there has been nothing wrong with what I wrote from scripture and there is nothing you can actually say is wrong I have written when using it...
If I had said anything you could prove wrong about others words you would have no doubt shown the scriptures and said something.
So really your accusation was unfounded.

Quote:

Judders Lady... wrote:
You see the bluff is easy to see when shown for what it is.
There was no "bluff", merely an opinion. And I think you really do need to check the English in your posts, perhaps you meant, "You see how easy  the bluff is to expose for what it is."?


The English language and it's grammar are always changing.
Your bluff was easy and is can be seen as such when shown for what it was.



Quote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
If you had knowledge about the Pyramids and what has been believed or taught about them over the years by those who have studied or even knew me. The post you wrote would not be here for me to answer.
I will believe what have been proven about them and theories that hold scientific water - not what some non-academic theorist constructs from evidence that is usually ambiguous.


You believe anything you are told as long as it suits you to believe it.
Because theories don't have scientific water to hold. Both are not based on facts. So really you cherry pick from things which sound good but have no basis in fact.

Quote:

Hmm, am I supposed to be impressed that others have "studied" you? Or even "known" you?

Quote:
or even knew me
as in present tense not PAST (known) tense so not referring to anything from the past or other persons knowledge of me.
Which shows you read things as you choose to see them, rather than as they are written.

Quote:

why on earth should I take the opinion of those who are taken in by your words as being of any value if I do not take them as such?


How you evaluate the words to be opinion depends on whether you seek truth or just something to satisfy what you choose to believe.
It has to be said that 'truth' has to be the only way for an opinion to be formed or count.
Quote:

Or was that supposed to mean, . . . "by those who have studies or those who have known me . . ."?


Neither it was present as I am still here and talking to you now not past tense.
Quote:

Never mind, similar answer applies - which sources did they study and how is knowing you relevant to this particular discussion? Do you have a list of your published papers and any citations?


I go beyond what people to say to what can be proved.
People can make all types of claims but very few can prove them.

Love.xx
Dave B

Well, we seem to actually be in agreement in some aspects - believe only that which can be proved! Though I would say, as with other aspects of science, acceptance of theories that have evidence to support, if not prove, them is normally OK. If new data comes along to modify them - well, that is why they are theories, they can be modified to suit the new facts (or even scrapped altogether.)

Why do you keep on about a bluff? That is entirely in your mind madam.

Aliens? Well, I will grudgingly accept that it may be possible that there is other life elsewhere in the universe. But, agreed, no involvement with the pyramids.

Hey! That's two points were we agree, who would have thought it?

I never said that you actually modified the Bible quotes, just that I would not be surprised if you did. Or at least quoted selectively.

English changes, but not in the way you have changed its sense at times. It is normally accepted that sentences at least make sense.

No, I do not believe what it suits me to believe - there are many things that I would love to be true but know are not. I do not believe in fantasy or supernatural beings like some seem to for a start because doing to suits what I want to believe.

But, we all have our personal preferences, just so long as we don't try to push those ideas at others.

Now, when you stop turning things round and trying to blame others for your own errors I might come to respect you just a little.
Silver

Dave B wrote:
"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?


After pyramids failed to stop tomb robbers, they settled on a hidden valley (of Kings) to hide the tombs from human knowledge. Tutankhamen's tomb was started as soon as he became king but because he died so early, he ended up with only a tiny tomb with everything crammed in to it.
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Well, we seem to actually be in agreement in some aspects - believe only that which can be proved! Though I would say, as with other aspects of science, acceptance of theories that have evidence to support, if not prove, them is normally OK. If new data comes along to modify them - well, that is why they are theories, they can be modified to suit the new facts (or even scrapped altogether.)

Why do you keep on about a bluff? That is entirely in your mind madam.

Aliens? Well, I will grudgingly accept that it may be possible that there is other life elsewhere in the universe. But, agreed, no involvement with the pyramids.

Hey! That's two points were we agree, who would have thought it?

I never said that you actually modified the Bible quotes, just that I would not be surprised if you did. Or at least quoted selectively.


Doing fine so far.
Though, I believe  theories are just  possibilities  which is a credit to scientists when they admit that is all they are.
Bible quotes can only be used to support the point  the persons using them are making in line with the given teachings of Christ and the Prophets. Sometimes things are not all clear cut.
Quote:

English changes, but not in the way you have changed its sense at times. It is normally accepted that sentences at least make sense.


My sentence did make sense and the use of words often give the sentence it's meaning.
Quote:

No, I do not believe what it suits me to believe - there are many things that I would love to be true but know are not. I do not believe in fantasy or supernatural beings like some seem to for a start because doing to suits what I want to believe.


Because God and angels are not meant to be seen by everyone.
The fact some have witnessed seeing Angels does not make it untrue.
As I said before trust makes a difference. I am also opened minded enough to know that there are things unexplained. What I also believe is people witness things which others haven't.
However it is not for me to judge what they say they have witnessed.


Quote:

But, we all have our personal preferences, just so long as we don't try to push those ideas at others.


A believer explaining their beliefs is not pushing their ideas onto you.
Like an atheist explaining their disbelief should not be seen as pushing their ideas onto you.
There is a difference between pushing, revealing and expression.
We have to listen to every argument in order to be informed of what the many different opinions and beliefs are in the world today.




Quote:

Now, when you stop turning things round and trying to blame others for your own errors I might come to respect you just a little.


I don't want your respect. If I had made any errors in this thread or in my use of scriptures you would have pointed this out. However by your own admission
Quote:
I never said that you actually modified the Bible quotes, just that I would not be surprised if you did. Or at least quoted selectively.
If you stopped looking for fault where there isn't any and stopped trying to impose wrong doing where none is evident. Then you might stop this habit of trying to attack unjustifiably.

Love.xx
Dave B

Silver wrote:
Dave B wrote:
"It is believed that the pyramids built well before any of the dead people were placed in them."

Is it? By whom? Got the references to academic research?


After pyramids failed to stop tomb robbers, they settled on a hidden valley (of Kings) to hide the tombs from human knowledge. Tutankhamen's tomb was started as soon as he became king but because he died so early, he ended up with only a tiny tomb with everything crammed in to it.

If that referred to them being built during the lifetime of the person destined to occupy them I seem to remember that is the accepted idea. I have a memory that there are writings in the tombs of some of the officials involved that give that impression.

The word phrase "well before" is rather vague and could refer to quite a long period, did the Pharaohs get the job started as soon as they took the throne I wonder?

If that is what JL meant then I offer my apologies in that respect.

It seems a bit strange that the Valley of the Kings tombs are more secure than those of the pyramids. I must do some reading up (when and if I get a chance!)

Whatever, that Tut's tombs remained unraided was a great bonus to Egyptology and all who appreciate the intricacies of that period.
Pukon_the_Treen

Quote:
I believe  theories are just  possibilities  which is a credit to scientists when they admit that is all they are.


The word theory, in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty. It means "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena" (Barnhart 1948)

(from talkorigins)


A theory, in the scientific sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of empirical observations. A scientific theory does two things:

  1. it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
  2. makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.

In the scientific or empirical tradition, the term "theory" is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains. These requirements vary across different scientific fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.

(from wikipedia)


Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.

(Isaac Asimov)
Dave B

Good old Isaac, gone but not forgotten.


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