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Judders Lady...

Zeitgeist [Religion] The Greatest Story Ever Sold (1of 3)


Link


Alright...

Was watching this, this morning.

I was told the things in common with Christ were added later after Christ had been. So which is it?

Love Lynne.xx
Judders Lady...


Link


Do you think they have an ulterior motive?
Dave B

Well, I'm happy with the ideas about the origins of many of the elements of religion - the tendency to ascribe stories, mythical agents, etc. to natural phenomena - that is a standard way of setting things out as a "formula" and committing them to memory. (Want to learn something? Set it to music, make a song out of it, sing it around the house - it works.) "Memory men" have used such techniques for a long time.

They seem to have Horus and Ra confused, both are falcon figures, but have different attributes above them - Horus a crown and Ra the Sun disk.

Never heaard about the virgin birth and all that stuff anywhere else for either the above - will have to do some more reading - been about 50 years since I was "into" Egyptian mythology.



So, 7/10 for the first bit, 0/10 for the rest and being WUMs who get their facts wrong.

(Open invite for your usual comments their Judders   )
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Well, I'm happy with the ideas about the origins of many of the elements of religion - the tendency to ascribe stories, mythical agents, etc. to natural phenomena - that is a standard way of setting things out as a "formula" and committing them to memory. (Want to learn something? Set it to music, make a song out of it, sing it around the house - it works.) "Memory men" have used such techniques for a long time.

They seem to have Horus and Ra confused, both are falcon figures, but have different attributes above them - Horus a crown and Ra the Sun disk.

Never heaard about the virgin birth and all that stuff anywhere else for either the above - will have to do some more reading - been about 50 years since I was "into" Egyptian mythology.


The thing is... it is a story in the video but it cannot be accounted as true.
Men trying to explain why or how belief in gods came into existence.
Because the fact remains it was not taught them.
Quote:

0/10 for the rest and being WUMs who get their facts wrong.


You got it wrong this time... No mention of any WUM in this thread.
Quote:

(Open invite for your usual comments their Judders   )


What usual comments?
How old are you. 50 year you were studying 50 years ago.
 

Love Lynne.xx
Dave B

Quote:
How old are you. 50 year you were studying 50 years ago.
That long ago I was all of 15, just about the right age to start a structured interest in myths and learning to analyse them to see how they originated.

There is a sound psychological basis for most myths, they have their uses.
Dave B

Quote:
Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[5][6]  and used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[7]  to conceive her son. In another version of the story, Isis was impregnated by divine fire.[8]  Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and whom she knew would want to kill their son.[8]  There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

This one is not quite so reliable but:
Quote:
Only the ocean existed at first. Then Ra (the sun) came out of an egg that appeared on the surface of the water. Ra brought forth four children, the gods Shu and Geb and the goddesses Tefnut and Nut. Shu and Tefnut became the atmosphere. They stood on Geb, who became the earth, and raised up Nut, who became the sky. Ra ruled over all. Geb and Nut later had two sons, Set and Osiris, and two daughters, Isis and Nephthys. Osiris succeeded Ra as king of the earth, helped by Isis, his sister-wife. Set, however, hated his brother and killed him. Isis then embalmed her husband's body with the help of the god Anubis, who thus became the god of embalming. The powerful charms of Isis resurrected Osiris, who became king of the netherworld, the land of the dead. Horus, who was the son of Osiris and Isis, later defeated Set in a great battle and became king of the earth.

http://www.mythome.org/creategy.html

So, no virgin births etc. so far . . .

So, probably just a WUM, as much so as some of the stuff Duckie digs up.
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Quote:
How old are you. 50 year you were studying 50 years ago.
That long ago I was all of 15, just about the right age to start a structured interest in myths and learning to analyse them to see how they originated.

There is a sound psychological basis for most myths, they have their uses.



Hey Dave B,

I thought you were about 58 years old you tyke.  

Your a year younger than my uncle. He is 66 mind he is 67 this year but looks in his forties. Hardly a grey hair or a wrinkle.

I am sure some myths do, I like moral myths.

Love Lynne.xx
Judders Lady...

Dave B wrote:
Quote:
Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[5][6]  and used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[7]  to conceive her son. In another version of the story, Isis was impregnated by divine fire.[8]  Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and whom she knew would want to kill their son.[8]  There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

This one is not quite so reliable but:
Quote:
Only the ocean existed at first. Then Ra (the sun) came out of an egg that appeared on the surface of the water. Ra brought forth four children, the gods Shu and Geb and the goddesses Tefnut and Nut. Shu and Tefnut became the atmosphere. They stood on Geb, who became the earth, and raised up Nut, who became the sky. Ra ruled over all. Geb and Nut later had two sons, Set and Osiris, and two daughters, Isis and Nephthys. Osiris succeeded Ra as king of the earth, helped by Isis, his sister-wife. Set, however, hated his brother and killed him. Isis then embalmed her husband's body with the help of the god Anubis, who thus became the god of embalming. The powerful charms of Isis resurrected Osiris, who became king of the netherworld, the land of the dead. Horus, who was the son of Osiris and Isis, later defeated Set in a great battle and became king of the earth.

http://www.mythome.org/creategy.html

So, no virgin births etc. so far . . .

So, probably just a WUM, as much so as some of the stuff Duckie digs up.

Do you mind if I borrow these to post on the other site?
Thanks for digging the proof out. It is good to see where the similarities become just hearsay and not fact.

Love Lynne.xx
Pukon_the_Treen

Quote:
Do you think they have an ulterior motive?


Yes, their agenda is anti-capitalist and anti-globalisation.  I think they are prone to hysteria and conspiracy theories in some of their ideas, but in their overall message they are spot on.  This makes their political platform clearer:


Link
Dave B

Quote:
Do you mind if I borrow these to post on the other site?
They are in the public domain, no permission need be asked - but be my guest (in this instance at least!)
Pukon_the_Treen

Dave,

Quote:
So, no virgin births etc. so far . . .


There are some similarities between Christ and several other godmen, but they are not as significant and explicit as the video implies; a lot of them can easily be dismissed as coincidence.  Personally I think it's because people are similar and have similar imaginations, ideas, dreams and myths, but as Lynne suggests, in the end the evidence on both sides is so scanty that it's just a matter of personal choice.

Quote:
So, probably just a WUM, as much so as some of the stuff Duckie digs up.


No, I don't think that's fair. The Zeitgeist stuff has been kicking about on the internet for ages; as I said, they incline towards hysteria and conspiracy theories, but I think on the whole they are sincere, if a little ideaological for my tastes.  In the first video they have decided to take a pop at Christianity, because they see it another mechanism of global division and control, not because they want to wind people up. They are however using 'facts' that have, in many cases, now been  shown to be exaggerated or made up.
Dave B

Thanks, Puke, I will bow to your greater experience in such stuff. I have to admit it does become just a little interesting when you find things like:

Quote:
Hosea 13:4:
King James Version. "...I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Young's Literal Translation: "And I [am] Jehovah thy God from the land of Egypt, And a God besides Me thou dost not know, And a Saviour -- there is none save Me."


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

I might just look deeper into Young's if it is available anywhere or I can find more quotes.
Farmer Geddon

Well TBH this notion of Yahweh being the Sun god of the Jews stems from reading a book called:  "Yahweh and the sun: biblical and archaeological evidence for sun worship in Ancient Israel" By Glen Taylor.

Something I read several years ago when I cared about stuff like this.

These days I have come to the conclusion that there are none so blind as a believer, so have given up my studies into why they believe so fervently...

I am content in the knowledge that what I now know is the truth and the claims of the believer is fantasy...

Christianity is not unique and is just as archaic as Judaism, Islam and all the other beliefs in the unnatural before and after it's conception.
Farmer Geddon

Ahh Dave - this was something else that piqued my interest, that the Jews came out of Egypt after hundreds of years and brought the notion of the Sun God with them and created Yahweh in deference to the god that was prevalent where they came from...

Another interesting read is: The Jews of Egypt: from Rameses II to Emperor Hadrian
By Joseph Modrzejewski
Dave B

Quote:
Ahh Dave - this was something else that piqued my interest, that the Jews came out of Egypt after hundreds of years and brought the notion of the Sun God with them and created Yahweh in deference to the god that was prevalent where they came from...

I wonder how those ancient Jews would have pronounced the original name of Horus?
Farmer Geddon

Apparently it may have been similar - "The pronunciation of the Egyptian (H)or and the Hebrew (O)r are identical, as far as we can tell.

This word is a fundamental Hebrew root stem. We find it in the third person singular as (O)r =  he shall shine. It is inflected in the masculine plural imperative as (O)ru, = to shine" http://www.egyptorigins.org/horus.htm
Dave B

Interesting link, thanks Duckie.

I have a few books on the origin and development of the Phonetician/Hebrew/Greek/Etruscan/Roman alphabet. Fascinating - might look into hieroglyphic systems (when I have done the hundred other things I have promised myself and can stay awake long enough to do!)
Farmer Geddon

TBH I also used to be fervent in my studies of ancient religions and how they correlated with each other Dave....  but it sadly waned as I realised it mattered not a jot how much proof I put forward to give substance to my conclusions.....   Nobody cared, so I stopped caring too!!


Judders Lady...

Lucifers Duck wrote:
TBH I also used to be fervent in my studies of ancient religions and how they correlated with each other Dave....  but it sadly waned as I realised it mattered not a jot how much proof I put forward to give substance to my conclusions.....   Nobody cared, so I stopped caring too!!




Rubbish....  

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