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Is God happy to let us get on with it?
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Judders Lady...
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Is God happy to let us get on with it?  Reply with quote

northernstar wrote:
The world can get along perfectly without the need for a "God", yes, we get the arguments that it's all going pear shaped but if God does exist, he/it seems to be happy enough to let us get on with it.


Did he have a choice?

Now that is a good question... Are you going to tackle it?

Love Lynne...xxx Smilie_PDT
_________________
Beware of the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat.  Psalm 101:5.Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
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Leonard James
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
northernstar wrote:
The world can get along perfectly without the need for a "God", yes, we get the arguments that it's all going pear shaped but if God does exist, he/it seems to be happy enough to let us get on with it.


Did he have a choice?

Now that is a good question... Are you going to tackle it?

Love Lynne...xxx Smilie_PDT

Lynne, my dear, what on earth is the use in asking a non-believer questions about your God? You are the one in contact, so it is much more sensible to ask him!
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Judders Lady...
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Leonard James wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
northernstar wrote:
The world can get along perfectly without the need for a "God", yes, we get the arguments that it's all going pear shaped but if God does exist, he/it seems to be happy enough to let us get on with it.


Did he have a choice?

Now that is a good question... Are you going to tackle it?

Love Lynne...xxx Smilie_PDT

Lynne, my dear, what on earth is the use in asking a non-believer questions about your God? You are the one in contact, so it is much more sensible to ask him!


Morning Leonard, :)

You missed the point....(hugs)

When Adam fell and men have their own choices who are not believers., does he have the choice or do we?

So my point was God is letting us get on with it, because he has already told us he will take action in his own time and it is up to manking to choose for themselves.

Love Lynne.xxx Smilie_PDT
_________________
Beware of the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat.  Psalm 101:5.Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
So my point was God is letting us get on with it, because he has already told us he will take action in his own time and it is up to manking to choose for themselves.

I'd better not tell you my opinion of a father who lets his kids 'get on with' killing, maiming and torturing one another. It might make even you blush!  :evil:
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Judders Lady...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Leonard James wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
So my point was God is letting us get on with it, because he has already told us he will take action in his own time and it is up to manking to choose for themselves.

I'd better not tell you my opinion of a father who lets his kids 'get on with' killing, maiming and torturing one another. It might make even you blush!  :evil:


So why don't you torture, kill and maime others?
The truth is that they don't listen to God, as you don't.
But it does not cause you to do these things.
So you cannot blame God for what his Kids do. You are the proof they
had a choice.

You rascal, would you really say things that would make me blush!

Love Lynne.xx Smilie_PDT  :twisted:  
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Beware of the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat.  Psalm 101:5.Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
So you cannot blame God for what his Kids do.

No, but I can blame ANY father who stands by and lets his kids ill-treat one another without lifting a finger to stop them.

And so would anybody whose mind is not completely enslaved to protecting such a monster. :evil:
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Judders Lady...
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Leonard James wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
So you cannot blame God for what his Kids do.

No, but I can blame ANY father who stands by and lets his kids ill-treat one another without lifting a finger to stop them.

And so would anybody whose mind is not completely enslaved to protecting such a monster. :evil:


But God did lift a finger.... He did nore than life a finger but he allowed us the choice to know him and live properly or reject him and go our own way.
You cannot blame God for our choice.

Love Lynne.xx Smilie_PDT
_________________
Beware of the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat.  Psalm 101:5.Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
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Pukon_the_Treen
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Location: Witch-cursed, legend-haunted Arkham

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He did nore than life a finger but he allowed us the choice to know him and live properly or reject him and go our own way.


So His 'help' was to tell us to do as He says or suffer the consequences?

I can understand the free will argument; it makes sense to me that if God wanted to give us total freedom (as befits a creator setting his creation free into the world) then He cannot intervene even to protect us from harm; that is the price of our autonomy and I accept that.  However, it seems to me that once He has given us this freedom it is immoral for Him to then play the despotic judge, punishing disobedience.  It's one or the other; total freedom from both compulsion and protection, or divine governance; He can't have both.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God happy to let us get on with it? Reply with quote

Judders Lady... wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
Judders Lady... wrote:
So you cannot blame God for what his Kids do.

No, but I can blame ANY father who stands by and lets his kids ill-treat one another without lifting a finger to stop them.

And so would anybody whose mind is not completely enslaved to protecting such a monster. :evil:


But God did lift a finger.... He did nore than life a finger but he allowed us the choice to know him and live properly or reject him and go our own way.
You cannot blame God for our choice.

Love Lynne.xx Smilie_PDT

I'm not talking about what he reputedly did! I'm talking about here and now, with millions of people suffering and dying from the action or inaction of the rest of us. Any father that can stand by and 'let his children get on with it' is not worthy of the name of father.  He is no more than an indifferent  despot.

Of course, he isn't real, so it doesn't really merit arguing about, but I am just pointing out how ridiculous your beliefs are.  Smilie_PDT
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Judders Lady...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pukon_the_Treen wrote:
Quote:
He did nore than life a finger but he allowed us the choice to know him and live properly or reject him and go our own way.


So His 'help' was to tell us to do as He says or suffer the consequences?

I can understand the free will argument; it makes sense to me that if God wanted to give us total freedom (as befits a creator setting his creation free into the world) then He cannot intervene even to protect us from harm; that is the price of our autonomy and I accept that.  However, it seems to me that once He has given us this freedom it is immoral for Him to then play the despotic judge, punishing disobedience.  It's one or the other; total freedom from both compulsion and protection, or divine governance; He can't have both.


You think that being God means he can go against the system already in place. You may be a judge and your son commits murder.
He is a good Son but he has done wrong. As a judge can you not do your job and sentence him because you are his father?

We know that laws are in place not to protect us from those who won't break them but to protect us from the few that will break them. Because the few can do terrible things. Not everyone is good Puke. But should the laws cease to exist what kind of evil and depravity would mankind sink to?
The few,still do it now, but without laws; nothing to make them answerable they would do it more often and more openly, so  causing good people to take matters into their own hands and do things they normally wouldn't. Even in society today, we hear people such as yourself who would glad string a paedophile up and not feel guilt or remorse at doing so.  

If God had not told us what not to do, then you would be right about him being a despotic judge. But Adam was told the consequence of his actions. Today, a judge would only excuse the mentally incapable from being punished under the law.
A mentally retarded child who takes 'openly' a pack of sweets off a shop shelf and eats them. Is not able to steal or commit the crime knowingly. So no Judge or even police officer would arrest or charge.
Because they would not be accountable. But for someone who understood. The person is accountable, because they knew the penalty before hand. No different for Adam, the Israelites and Moses. They had a choice and they made it.
Obey or don't obey but we knew the consequences and so did they when they entered into agreement.

But I will ask you a question.

If you were a Father would you impose anything upon your son that would harm him? Would you impose anything upon your son to save him from real harm?

Well why do you not see this in the actions of God and you?

Do you have different rules for yourself and how God would behave?
God wants the best for us.

Love Lynne.x
:)


_________________
Beware of the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat.  Psalm 101:5.Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
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