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"Who Wrote The Bible and Why It Matters":
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:06 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
Farmer Geddon wrote:
But was he really a Pharisee?



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Well, he said he was.....
I haven't got the "Pharisees-r-us" directory to hand to confirm it.
-

Ok fair enough, the guys who wrote Acts and Philippians put it about that he was one but....
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Paul didn't write Phillippians?
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Pauls polemics on circumcision kinda shows that he obviously could not have been a Pharisee trained Jew because circumcision is one of Godís commandments, either that or he was very confused in his thinking in trying to establish his Abrahamic roots as a selling point for his messianic teachings...


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You have heard of the New Covenant, haven't you?
Paul was no longer a 'Pharisee of the Pharisees'.
Jesus put a new kind of thinking in his head.
At least that's how I read it.


You sure that wasn't a chinese whisper he put in his head.
Streuth twelve disciples miss out on having anything put in their heads but along comes this Saul guy giving everyone the sharp end and he gets the contract, yer and me aunts me uncle.

One thing we can be sure of is that wolves eat sheep, and wrapping the wolf in a fleece don't change his apetite.



bernard (hug)
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Farmer Geddon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course I know Paul didn't write Phil and had no direct influence in the nonsense claimed in Acts Jim.

But there are lots of themes in the 7 genuine letters that are extremely apocalyptic and very Jewish in thought.

Don't forget that when Paul refers to scripture, his only point of reference would have been The Torah as the books of the NT weren't constructed until at least a decade after his death..

As for the New Covenant, I agree that it is prevalent in 2 Corry chapter 3 but it is just another intriguing part of Pauls ministry where he is claiming that the Spirit outshines the Law, that the Christ is superior to the God.

Cybers.

Maybe he was just bitter because he was more of the flesh than he was of the spirit?

I concede that in his zeal to become a true Jew he probably leaned more towards the Pharisaic side of Judaism than the Priestly Sadds, but there is nothing in his letters that confirm that his thought process meant he was theologically a "Christian", he seemed to see himself as a more advanced Jew!!

Paulís life, before he started to understand the message that Jesus' followers were preaching, is a life wholly and irredeemably marked by sin.

Paulís commitment to Judaism and Jewish practice that forms such a huge part of his earlier life is seemingly inherently linked to a sinful past life of which Paul is ashamed.

These claims that he was schooled in the ďtraditions of his ancestors,Ē being circumcised, and being a Pharisee are associated with the flesh and sin, and it looks like Paul felt ashamed about these qualities that characterised his former life.

Paulís life after Christ is marked by religious activities that bring redemption; it is a life lived in Christ, a life characterised by a different kind of religious zeal, a life about which he feels he can therefore rightly boast about.

As far as I'm concerned Paulís life can be summed up in two totally discontinuous phases: B.C. and A.D.

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Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on.....
What do you mean "of course Paul didn't write Phil"?
That's a new one on m
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Farmer Geddon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh - yup - you're right there Jim, it is universally accepted that Paul composed both Gallus and Philip, which are the main writings in which Paul claims to have Pharisaic roots in his earlier belief system.

I'll be buggered if I can remember where else it is stated he was a Pharisee, all I'm concentrating on at the moment in the 1st 7 letters on the list..

After all, the Pharisees were known for several things, but one of the most important was their devotion to the study of Torah, and they were considered the virtuosos of Torah interpretation.

To claim that one had spent time in the company of Pharisees is the ancient Jewish equivalent of bragging about having had an Oxbridge education.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to build your own oxford if the best you can hope for otherwise is to be a menial?

bernard (hug)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Paul claimed to have studied under Gammaliel, that gave him bragging rights on the Pharasee front. Gammaliel was well known in mid first century Jewish circles. It must have came as a body blow to realise that someone who had been mentored by him had joined the 'Jesus movement'...and taken it away from being just another Jewish sect, using Pharasaic logic to do it!
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God makes bad decision:- includes Ham in the ark

ditto : chooses wrong people

ditto :- choses the wrong twelve disciples

God puts things right:- chooses Saul to lead the march on the setup of a new people, christians.

Happy skip off into sunset!

bernard (hug)

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