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Christopher Hitchens dies.
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cyberman
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

SceptiKarl wrote:
what the Bible says about what will happen to Hitchens, which is the fiery lake and eternal torture,f


A question for you to refuse to answer: Where does the Bible say that Hitchens will be subject to eternal torture?
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genghiscant
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Joined: 29 Jun 2011
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Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
cymrudynnion wrote:
Quote:
Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest
.

Quote:
genghiscant wrote:
Why not?


Quote:
cymrudynnion wrote:
just fact


A fact must be shown to correspond to experience & be scientifically verified by repeatable experiments. None of which applies to your  statement that "Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest."
Just saying it doesn't make it true, but I'm sure you're able to show your reasoning & prove that it's true? I await your reply.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest.

It is an obvious fact to all but  fools that intelligence has nothing to do with being an atheist.

That there are intelligent and stupid men in both camps clearly demonstrates that.
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cymrudynnion
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Joined: 13 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genghiscant wrote:
Quote:
cymrudynnion wrote:
Quote:
Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest
.

Quote:
genghiscant wrote:
Why not?


Quote:
cymrudynnion wrote:
just fact


A fact must be shown to correspond to experience & be scientifically verified by repeatable experiments. None of which applies to your  statement that "Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest."
Just saying it doesn't make it true, but I'm sure you're able to show your reasoning & prove that it's true? I await your reply.
Wait on then
Those are not my words but try googling them and you will find out who actually said them.
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonard James wrote:
Quote:
Man is not intelligent enough to be athiest.

It is an obvious fact to all but  fools that intelligence has nothing to do with being an atheist.

That there are intelligent and stupid men in both camps clearly demonstrates that.


Leonard is entirely correct here. I'm not sure where you're going with this, Cym..?
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genghiscant
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wait on then
Those are not my words but try googling them and you will find out who actually said them.


It doesn't matter who originally said the words, you repeated them presumably knowing what they meant & were able to explain them. You didn't ascribe them to anyone else.
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SceptiKarl
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Joined: 19 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberman:

Quote:
A question for you to refuse to answer: Where does the Bible say that Hitchens will be subject to eternal torture?


Well, obviously the prohphets were not well enough informed by God to name Hitchens by name so they generalised. You could look to inspiration from Revelation 20, 14

Quote:
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.


http://bible.cc/revelation/20-14.htm

Or if that is not to your taste, here's another piece of wisdom from the Bible:

Quote:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).  


As far as I gather, Hitchens, like me, was one of the "unbelieving". Now is my answer specific enough for you cyberman?

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SceptiKarl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cym...:

Quote:
By the same token Scep neither are you intelligent enough


Oh dear cym, have you fallen into the trap of personal insults? I could be the biggest idiot in the world and still say "the speed of light is approximately 300,000 km per second in a vacuum", and it would still be true.

An intelligent man like Rowan Williams, (ABoC), could tell me that Jesus died on the cross, and came back to life on the third day and levitated Himself to heaven. I wouldn't believe it, and nor, I suspect, does he.

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SceptiKarl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexi:

Quote:
It's not for us to decide who has enough goodness to earn God's forgiveness and eternal blessing in heaven. I agree that it would be hard to understand if God forgave people like Hitler - or serial killers. But we don't know.

I find it hard to accept that God would reject people who were generally good - simply because they did not believe. Perhaps its because my Gran was a confirmed atheist. Plus I've met some lovely atheists on these boards. I think God can see through the front - and would accept those who have love in their hearts for others.


Well, yes, I realise that hell is rather unfashionable among certain more "moderate" Christians such as yourself, but the fact is you are denying what the Bible actually says, and instead inserting your own moral guidelines into the texts that suit your position. Even accepting your position that, e.g. God would have Hitchens in heaven, where would people like Hitler or Stalin be? In a fiery lake for eternity? Does that sit happily with your conscience? You are in heaven on the balcony having a gin and tonic, enjoying eternally the music you like, looking down on the "fiery lake". There are Hitler and Stalin and Torquemedo desperately suffering amongst many others, including perhaps some of your/ my relatives. Would you enjoy your drink and think "Yes s/he deserved it", or like me, would you be appalled by the idea that the Creator of the universe could treat any of His creations in such a way?

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SceptiKarl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberman:

Quote:
No, the position which you have stated and which you are attempting to jsutify is that we think that you are going to hell for being an atheist. We do not think that.

I have no idea what is happening to the man's soul, but I don;t suppose anything terrible!

I do not think that being an atheist gets you sent to hell. You have claimed that this is Catholic teaching, but you have failed to supply a source which supports your claim.


Come on cyberman! Have you never read the Bible? The Jesus who wants you to turn the other cheek also came "not in peace, but with a sword"! He came to separate the believers from the non-believers, the sheep from the goats. Jesus is the first one to threaten the likes of me with the "fiery lake".

A few (?5) years ago the Vatican issued a statement confirming their view that hell is real. I will search for it and find it if you say I am lying, but tonight I have to do other things.


PS I don't believe in "souls". It's a relic of mysticism. When I am dead, "I" will be no more. Finished, extimct, devoid of life, kicked the bucket, pushing up daisies....

(Reminds me of that dead parrot scene from Monty Python!)


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