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Denmark bans religious slaughter
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Jim
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Location: South West Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

If an animal is caused pain in the act of slaughtering it, that is wrong.
Just as Christians have to toe the line in certain Arab nations, those who wish to live in a democratic state whose laws were promulgated by a democratic government should live according to those laws - or leave.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pow wow wrote:
Now Shaker you are not very clever are you. (smiley face)

Clever enough to use a smiley face instead of actually writing out the words pertaining thereto, apparently.

Quote:
Is and atheist Jew a Jew?

What do they consider themselves?

Quote:
Denmark is displaying anti semitism and being rather hypocritical.

Bollocks.

Quote:
I wonder if my cousins are stunning their rats and mice and what they thoughts of their zoo killing and carving up a healthy little giraffe.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news...come-before-religion-9135580.html

If they're your cousins it's a wonder they're not burning them alive.

We know what this is really all about - not the issue of banning ritual slaughter, because that's about animal welfare. No, I mean all this bitching and bleating from the usual suspects: it's because Jews are the only people ever in the entire history of human life on this planet who have ever had anything at all bad happen to them and therefore they're above challenge or criticism on absolutely anything whatever.

Criticise the odious barbarism of ritual circumcision?

Anti-Semitism!

Criticise the terroristic atrocities carried out against the Palestinians?

Anti-Semitism!

Criticise the ceaseless expansion of and appropriation by West Bank settlers?

Anti-Semitism!

Criticise the vile practice of "religious" slaughter?

Anti-Semitism!Don'tyoudarecriticiseanythingwedoyouanti-Semite!

One Israeli journalist writing for Israel's oldest newspaper gets it.
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Last edited by Shaker on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:03 am; edited 3 times in total
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Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm forced to agree.
One can be ambivolent to Israeli political and paramilitary action without being anti-Semitic.
Just as one can be ambivolent to U.S foreign and defence policy without being anti-American.

Trouble is, a certain mindset in the Christian sphere will see no wrong in Israel or in the religious practices of a religion which makes up a substantial part of the nation-state of Israel.
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LeClerc
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All

There is huge difference between Rabbinic Judaism, which grew out of  Pharisaic Judaism, and the spirit of The Torah of YHWH, which Y'shua taught. Sadly many cannot see the difference but some can, see link below.

Commenting on the above Torah verse (Deut. 12:20), modern Torah scholar and teacher Nehama Leibowitz points out how odd the dispensation is and how grudgingly permission to eat meat is granted. She concludes that people have not been granted dominion over the animal kingdom to do with them anything that we desire, but that we have been given a "barely tolerated dispensation", if we cannot resist temptation and must eat meat, to slaughter animals for our consumption.

Accordingly, the laws of kashrut come to teach us that a Jew's first preference should be a vegetarian meal. If, however, one cannot control a craving for meat, it should be kosher meat, which would serve as a reminder that the animal being eaten is a creature of God, that the death of such a creature cannot be taken lightly, that hunting for sport is forbidden, that we cannot treat any living thing callously, and that we are responsible for what happens to other beings (human or animal) even if we did not personally come into contact with them.


Regards

LeClerc
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Ketty
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Location: Walking the narrow path, singing merrily and living Victoriously

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeClerc wrote:
Hi All

There is huge difference between Rabbinic Judaism, which grew out of  Pharisaic Judaism, and the spirit of The Torah of YHWH, which Y'shua taught. Sadly many cannot see the difference but some can, see link below.

Commenting on the above Torah verse (Deut. 12:20), modern Torah scholar and teacher Nehama Leibowitz points out how odd the dispensation is and how grudgingly permission to eat meat is granted. She concludes that people have not been granted dominion over the animal kingdom to do with them anything that we desire, but that we have been given a "barely tolerated dispensation", if we cannot resist temptation and must eat meat, to slaughter animals for our consumption.

Accordingly, the laws of kashrut come to teach us that a Jew's first preference should be a vegetarian meal. If, however, one cannot control a craving for meat, it should be kosher meat, which would serve as a reminder that the animal being eaten is a creature of God, that the death of such a creature cannot be taken lightly, that hunting for sport is forbidden, that we cannot treat any living thing callously, and that we are responsible for what happens to other beings (human or animal) even if we did not personally come into contact with them.


Regards

LeClerc


Thank you LeClerc.
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Rose
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeClerc wrote:
Hi All

There is huge difference between Rabbinic Judaism, which grew out of  Pharisaic Judaism, and the spirit of The Torah of YHWH, which Y'shua taught. Sadly many cannot see the difference but some can, see link below.

Commenting on the above Torah verse (Deut. 12:20), modern Torah scholar and teacher Nehama Leibowitz points out how odd the dispensation is and how grudgingly permission to eat meat is granted. She concludes that people have not been granted dominion over the animal kingdom to do with them anything that we desire, but that we have been given a "barely tolerated dispensation", if we cannot resist temptation and must eat meat, to slaughter animals for our consumption.

Accordingly, the laws of kashrut come to teach us that a Jew's first preference should be a vegetarian meal. If, however, one cannot control a craving for meat, it should be kosher meat, which would serve as a reminder that the animal being eaten is a creature of God, that the death of such a creature cannot be taken lightly, that hunting for sport is forbidden, that we cannot treat any living thing callously, and that we are responsible for what happens to other beings (human or animal) even if we did not personally come into contact with them.


Regards

LeClerc


That was very interesting LeClerc



Julie
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, and I think I might have touched on this on this board, at least somewhere anyhow,.. Did Jesus eat meat, and if he did, how was it killed?

LC's quote refering to the abstinence to eating meat being a first choice where poss, lends itself to the question of the passover lamb, which in turn questions whether Jesus would have partaken.?

bernard hug)
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LeClerc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning Bernie.

bnabernard wrote:
Well, and I think I might have touched on this on this board, at least somewhere anyhow,.. Did Jesus eat meat, and if he did, how was it killed?

LC's quote refering to the abstinence to eating meat being a first choice where poss, lends itself to the question of the passover lamb, which in turn questions whether Jesus would have partaken.?

bernard hug)


Do your questions require a new thread Bernie ?

Because before even beginning to answer your questions we need to discern the following.

Matthew 15
[i]15 Then some P’rushim and Torah-teachers from Yerushalayim came to Yeshua and asked him, 2 “Why is it that your talmidim break the Tradition of the Elders? They don’t do n’tilat-yadayim before they eat!” 3 He answered, “Indeed, why do you break the command of God by your tradition?[/i]

What are the ''Tradition of the Elders'' ?

In case you are wondering, n’tilat-yadayim is the washing of hands.

Below is an example question regarding n’tilat-yadayim  

Quote:


Question

No water is available in a housing unit, where one sleeps and dines, except from a sink in a room with a toilet.

For purposes of N’tilat Yadaim, may one remove water from that sink, in a container, and perform N’tilat Yadaim for meals, and upon rising, in another room where there is no toilet.

Answer

The solution you suggest is permitted although the question that remains is- what will you do with the water that you used for N'tilat Yadayim? If you dispose of it in the room with the toilet, some poskim feel that you should rinse your hands elsewhere later upon finding an opportunity, since in their opinion just being in the room necessitates rinsing one's hands without a bracha. There are poskim who permit doing the act of n'tilat yadayim in a room with a flush porcelain toilet as long as the bracha is made outside of the room and when there is no better alternative this opinion can be followed



Regards

LeClerc
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well LC I wasn't realy questioning the lack of toilet paper and the ablutive arrangements though I'm sure they can be discused if you feel the need.
What I was pointing out was more to do with the diet.

bernard (hug)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no indication in Scripture either way.
However, given the  area in which the Lord grew up, his environment, the 'scandal' he aroused in the things he did, and people with whom He associated, if there had been any perceived breach of the Law in terms of His diet, I'm willing to bet the Pharisees would have used it as a rod to beat Him with.
There is no such evidence that this happened, therefore the obvious conclusion is that He subjected Himself to the Law in terms of diet.


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