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Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
What we need is a superman who emphasise right over wrong and can't be argued with.

bernard (hug)
 




Wot....
Like Jesus, God Incarnate?
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moses?

bernard (hug)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
Moses?

bernard (hug)
 



Did Moses perform miracles by his own power, or as God's instrument?
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gone
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floo wrote:
Jim wrote:
bnabernard wrote:
Moses?

bernard (hug)
 



Did Moses perform miracles by his own power, or as God's instrument?


Neither, because I bet my bottom dollar he didn't perform any miracles.


An interesting point Flo because it leaves this scenarion, Moses was 'in their face, the whole of thenation of Israel was a witness to what happened regarding miraculous works, there was not one Israelite that could be in ignorance as to did he or didn't he.

However we then move on to Jesus and despite Jim ignoring statements made by the son of God that it was his father that was responsable for the miracles, Jesus was not in the face of the whole of Israel, Jesus traveled arround doing the odd thing here and the odd thing there and was only witnessed as and where he was by the people present.

The resulting outcome is that Israel becomes divided by witness, those that saw and those who did not, which eventualy spills over into the gentile nations that were attendant on Israel, the outer court who believed in the God of Israel and those that saw an advantage in the belief in Jesus while not having any direct witness.

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JMC
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:

The resulting outcome is that Israel becomes divided by witness, those that saw and those who did not...


Except that the pharisees (and others who rejected Him as the Christ, persecuted Him, and crucified Him) did witness Jesus' miracles; they didn't say that He didn't perform miracles, but that He did so by the power of demons and/or did so on the Sabbath day. The division was not to do with witness of miracles v not witnessing miracles.
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genghiscant
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
bnabernard wrote:

The resulting outcome is that Israel becomes divided by witness, those that saw and those who did not...


Except that the pharisees (and others who rejected Him as the Christ, persecuted Him, and crucified Him) did witness Jesus' miracles; they didn't say that He didn't perform miracles, but that He did so by the power of demons and/or did so on the Sabbath day. The division was not to do with witness of miracles v not witnessing miracles.


According to the bible?
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
bnabernard wrote:

The resulting outcome is that Israel becomes divided by witness, those that saw and those who did not...


Except that the pharisees (and others who rejected Him as the Christ, persecuted Him, and crucified Him) did witness Jesus' miracles; they didn't say that He didn't perform miracles, but that He did so by the power of demons and/or did so on the Sabbath day. The division was not to do with witness of miracles v not witnessing miracles.


Quite a reasonable argument JMC, which still leaves you with the measure of in your face v secret not in your face, therefore given that the Pharisees did not witness but heard, from obscure sources, even what they might term uneducated sources the reasoning of the Pharisees starts to gain credence.

Moses on the other hand ws full on and left no doubt lest there be those among the Israelites who thought that their station merited Gods power, ie that God should come to them first, this was not the case and Moses was accepted by the whole nation.
It was with Moses that a stand was made against false Gods, ie his challenge to the egyptian gods, there was however no visible unified witness of the same nature concerning Jesus.

Given that the false gods exercised power anough to be challenged by the true God in great witness it would seem that the works of Jesus were in fact lacking in impact if he was God comming to the whole of Israel.

bernard (hug)
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JMC
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moved onto the next page, as that seems to be the way around here  
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LeClerc
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Bernie

bnabernard wrote:


Quite a reasonable argument JMC, which still leaves you with the measure of in your face v secret not in your face, therefore given that the Pharisees did not witness but heard, from obscure sources, even what they might term uneducated sources the reasoning of the Pharisees starts to gain credence.
bernard (hug)


Luke 5
12 Once, when Yeshua was in one of the towns, there came a man completely covered with tzara‘at. On seeing Yeshua, he fell on his face and begged him, “Sir, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Yeshua reached out his hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing! Be cleansed!” Immediately the tzara‘at left him. 14 Then Yeshua warned him not to tell anyone. “Instead, as a testimony to the people, go straight to the cohen and make an offering for your cleansing, as Moshe commanded.”

Why did Y'shua send the one cleansed of tzar'at to the cohen ?

When they did not believe Y'shua, Y'shua sent them ten.

Luke 17
11 On his way to Yerushalayim, Yeshua passed along the border country between Shomron and the Galil. 12 As he entered one of the villages, ten men afflicted with tzara‘at met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out, “Yeshua! Rabbi! Have pity on us!” 14 On seeing them, he said, “Go and let the cohanim examine you!” And as they went, they were cleansed.

You seem to fail to understand the significance of this Bernie.

Regards

LeClerc

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