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JMC
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Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 493


Location: Just passing through...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
I am not saying the witness is comparable; I am saying that the result was comparable: some trusted Moses, some did not; some trusted Christ, some did not. Who did, and who did not, trust in Moses and Jesus appears to have nothing to do with whether they saw miracles performed or not. You have not shown otherwise. Your references to another thread reek of an ad hominen attack, which hints that the reason you haven't shown otherwise is because you can't.


bnabernard wrote:
[color=darkblue]I see so the scenario with Moses is, '' I don't trust this bloke, we got the Egyptians behind us and this bloody great sea in front of us'' followed by '' fluke, don't know how he did it but there's something about this guy I still don't trust''
If of course you are refering to those who lost faith when he was seemingly not coming back then that is a completely different emotion to not trusting him in his presence.


I was thinking more of Korah's rebellion, actually.


JMC wrote:
You could always try again at making your link without making remarks about the gullibility of another poster. It's not all that difficult actually, though I do understand the temptation to call/think someone who doesn't agree with you stupid/gullible/dishonest/deluded/insane etc. But it is just that: a temptation, and temptations to think this way don't come from God.


bnabernard wrote:
[color=darkblue]Well you might have a point but I would say theres plenty of references to dishonesty gullibility delusion and stupidity and even insanity etc in the bible, and warnings against letting any of the above havin control in ones life...


Yes, but I was talking specifically of calling someone you've never met on an online forum the above things. So, again, I would try making your point without making unsupportable accusations against someone you simply don't know, rather than justify your repeated name-calling.

If you think someone online is trying to gain "control over your life" then there's a verrrrrry easy way of foiling their plans. Constantly replying to them in self-justifying posts isn't it.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was thinking more of Korah's rebellion, actually.


Then consider it carefully and see if it was mistrust, jealousy, seeking more power through Moses, and whether the outcome was witnessed by Israel or up the road round the corner.


Quote:
Yes, but I was talking specifically of calling someone you've never met on an online forum the above things. So, again, I would try making your point without making unsupportable accusations against someone you simply don't know, rather than justify your repeated name-calling.


Then I would refer you to an earlier post that a truthful man does not tell lies, he says what he believes to be the truth.
There is one truth Gods and while man might percieve he has that truth and speak that which he believes true it is not neccessarily the truth unless it has Gods backing.
So have I accused you or have Ipointed to what might imply a thought?

Quote:

If you think someone online is trying to gain "control over your life" then there's a verrrrrry easy way of foiling their plans. Constantly replying to them in self-justifying posts isn't it.


I think some heavy presumption to be in the air, are opinions of no matter?
There isn't much left of my life, Idon't think anyone wants whats left  


bernard (hug)
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JMC
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
I was thinking more of Korah's rebellion, actually.


Then consider it carefully....


Your point was that Moses' miracles were out in the open whereas Christ's were hidden, therefore that is why part of Israel didn't believe Him to be the Messiah. Korah's rebellion proves that part of Israel didn't trust Moses either. The reason is immaterial - your point is predicated on a difference between the acceptance of Moses and rejection of Jesus, whereas with both there was a mixture.



bnabernard wrote:
Quote:
Yes, but I was talking specifically of calling someone you've never met on an online forum the above things. So, again, I would try making your point without making unsupportable accusations against someone you simply don't know, rather than justify your repeated name-calling.


Then I would refer you to an earlier post that a truthful man does not tell lies, he says what he believes to be the truth.
There is one truth Gods and while man might percieve he has that truth and speak that which he believes true it is not neccessarily the truth unless it has Gods backing.
So have I accused you or have Ipointed to what might imply a thought?


I purposefully included the standard set of insults presumptuously trotted out by people on message boards when confronted by someone they cannot convince. Among them was the accusation of delusion. So, yes, you have accused me of being deluded in that I think differently to you and you choose to believe I'm earnest in thinking that way (i.e. not lying). It doesn't stop it being an accusation, and one you cannot assume based on our limited knowledge of each other.



Quote:
Quote:
If you think someone online is trying to gain "control over your life" then there's a verrrrrry easy way of foiling their plans. Constantly replying to them in self-justifying posts isn't it.


I think some heavy presumption to be in the air, are opinions of no matter?


Clearly not to you, because when an opposing opinion comes along you explain it away as lies, delusion, insanity, gullibility or stupidity (all words used by you to seemingly justify your reasons for continuing discussion). The reason I say that opinions are of no matter to you because such a response to opposing opinions shows disregard for both the opinions and the one holding them. Opinions about the character/behaviour etc. of someone you've never met and haven't really spoken with all that much, go beyond the realm of mere beliefs and into something far more unacceptable in reasoned debate.
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bnabernard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Clearly not to you, because when an opposing opinion comes along you explain it away as lies, delusion, insanity, gullibility or stupidity (all words used by you to seemingly justify your reasons for continuing discussion). The reason I say that opinions are of no matter to you because such a response to opposing opinions shows disregard for both the opinions and the one holding them. Opinions about the character/behaviour etc. of someone you've never met and haven't really spoken with all that much, go beyond the realm of mere beliefs and into something far more unacceptable in reasoned debate


Do you find that unacceptable, is it the man/woman or belief, which is the stranger to me? Is it realy wrong of me to make alowances bearing in mind the choice I see my opponent in debate has in life?
Many people believe they make a free choice but th reality is few do, it's those few who do that I sometimes I have to make even greater and harder allowances for, and sometimes asking a simple question like, ''where did he go to toilet'' can reveal a lot.

Now lets be real, given the er, press coverage, that of Moses and that of Jesus, it's delivery and it's witness, who would the Jew vote for bearing in mind that they had been taught to trust their cohen.

bernard (hug)
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Ketty
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Joined: 26 Aug 2008
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Location: Walking the narrow path, singing merrily and living Victoriously

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
. . . and sometimes asking a simple question like, ''where did he go to toilet'' can reveal a lot. . . .


I agree.  It's the simple and basic questions such as a child would ask that often, as you say Bernie, reveal much.
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JMC
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Location: Just passing through...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:

Is it realy wrong of me to make alowances bearing in mind the choice I see my opponent in debate has in life?


I have not set myself up as an opponent to you in anything. However, it seems that you have made me into an opponent and, presumably, that's how you see yourself in relation to me. I'm afraid I've been on forums too long to be interested in oppositional debate anymore. Most of the friction between us is down to you openly "opposing" me in everything I post. Again, that seems to be down to you - and looking back at my "welcome" thread there seems to be evidence that your view of me as an opponent was there as soon as I joined.

It's quite interesting that you see your rationalizations as to other people's disagreement with you as "allowances" for their behaviour. Yet no such allowances need to be made: someone disagrees with you on the Internet. There is no need that isn't self-serving which requires your disagreement with someone to be explained away by the "opponent" being deceitful, deluded, insane, gullible or stupid.

If you don't agree, then you don't agree. But the above is what I believe and if there is no common understanding there then there's not much else to be said.


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