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Biblical knowledge
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Ketty
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Joined: 26 Aug 2008
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Location: Walking the narrow path, singing merrily and living Victoriously

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Ralph2 wrote:
One thing that is blatantly obvious is that you have no reason. No reason why we are here, where did we come from and where are we going to. You seem to believe it to be Gods will yet ignore all the many scriptures that tell us exactly why we are here and what we are doing. You have blind faith and hope without any reasoning.

If this were true and important to the salvation and eternal life of mankind the God would have made such a fairy tale concept known to us in his word. He hasn't

The universe was created by the big bang. God may have pushed the button but the universe made itself.


Don't be a silly billy.  You are demeaning God by that statement.  How can even you make a cake from a whole lot of nothing?

Ralph2 wrote:
It is not possible to be made a son or daughter.


Tell that to all the adopted sons and daughters in the world.  Every bit a child of their adoptive parents as is a 'natural' child: full and equal rights and obligations.

Christians are all adopted sons and daughters in Christ Jesus.  Full heirs to the Kingdom.  Shame your LDS teaching robs you of that ability and truth.

Ralph2 wrote:
We either are or we are not his sons and daughters, in a literal sense. My spirit is the literal creation of my Father in Heaven. Only by proving ourselves herewith will we be granted place in the kingdom of God. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God. You get this mortal probation wrong and you forfeit your rights to live in the presence of God. How can you get it so wrong and still believe that you are right?


Right back atcha - but we know the reason why: it's manifestly clear.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We confess Jesus Christ, God the Son:
in love, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became one of us;
to fulfil the promise to Israel and to reconcile the world with God.


Absolute rubbish.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he?

Ralph2 wrote:
No, in the garden of Ghetsemani he took upon himself the sins of the world. On the cross he died for death was necessary before resurrection could take place.

The Holy Ghost brought the assembly into being, or the congregation, he did take a crash course in Church building.

Quote:
He empowers us to be disciples,


No, the power of the priesthood, after the order of the son of God, gives us that authority.


Another LDS false teaching.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We rejoice in the gift of eternal life:


You do not know what eternal life is. You have been duped into believing it is salvation. One of Satan's exemplary deceits.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he.  Arch deceivers employ arch deceivers.

Ralph2 wrote:
 Because of that you will have to be judged. You cannot blame anyone for your failure to recognise that which is true. Truth is a constant. It never changes. It is always available to find.

Quote:
Then all creation shall rejoice in communion with the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit, one God blessed forever. "


But why? What should we rejoice? What have we achieved? What is the goal?


Oh dear!  You've been robbed Delbert, well and truly robbed.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You seem to have excluded quite a few. Things like the rapsody.


The what?

Ralph2 wrote:
The notion that to confess that Jesus is Christ is sufficient to give us eternal life with God. Your misunderstanding of salvation, meaning that we will all be saved. That we will go step into immortality from mortality, not that we will have place in the presence of God as the body may be perfect but the mind will remain as is. You, Jim, in my opinion, do not have place there. Your whole persona would not fit there. You would be uncomfortable in the presence of those who know pure love and righteousness. By your post here you have difficulty in empathy, pride, arrogance and condescension.


Oh dear, oh dear.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You believe the unbelievable and shun that which is true.


Yep, you serpently do!    (pun intended).
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Jim
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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Location: South West Scotland

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Bennet....
Ralph as Q?
No wonder there was a war in the continuum.
Not even Janeway could sort him out!

-
I mean, his powers are amazing.
In one post, he can dismiss the distilled wisdom of many theologians, ministers, elders and Biblical experts as meaningless.
The Kirk may be many things - and I'm an expert at criticising the practice and procedure which dates back before John Knox's granny's budgie was an egg - but even I have to admit (grudgingly) that the team of scholars and presbyters who put the credal statement together had more degrees between them than a blast furnace.
The statement says nothing which is not in accord with Nicea or the Apostles' Creed - nor anything which is not found in Scripture: it simply says it in a manner modern Scots can recognise.
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JMC
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim wrote:

The statement says nothing which is not in accord with Nicea or the Apostles' Creed - nor anything which is not found in Scripture: it simply says it in a manner modern Scots can recognise.


Is the Nicean Creed so incomprehensible that another creed was needed?
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Jim
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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Location: South West Scotland

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
Jim wrote:

The statement says nothing which is not in accord with Nicea or the Apostles' Creed - nor anything which is not found in Scripture: it simply says it in a manner modern Scots can recognise.


Is the Nicean Creed so incomprehensible that another creed was needed?

-
The CofS does, of cource, subscribe to the Nicean Creed.
However, the Panel on Doctrine (on which I sat as a Presbytery rep) felt that a restatement of the fundamental doctrines of the Church, using as little jargon or theology speak as possible, was needed.
We sponsored a sub-committee composed of seven leading Theology professors, four lecturers in Church history, and three teachers who taught English to new speakers of the tongue.
What they came up with was reviewed by a multi discipline panel before going to the General Assembly, where it was accepted "simpliciter" - in other words, unaltered, as a statement of core belief for modern English usage.
We have not abandoned the Nicean Creed - nor, indeed, will we!
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Christians accept One God, Triune in nature.
SAOR ALBA GU BRATH!
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JMC
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Joined: 11 Mar 2014
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Location: Just passing through...

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I didn't mean that to imply that the CoS had abandoned the Nicene Creed. However, I still don't see the Nicene Creed as needing a rewrite to remove any theological "jargon". I don't have any formal qualifications wit regards to theology but do not find any words or phrases within the Nicene Creed difficult to understand.
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Jim
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 4842


Location: South West Scotland

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
No, I didn't mean that to imply that the CoS had abandoned the Nicene Creed. However, I still don't see the Nicene Creed as needing a rewrite to remove any theological "jargon". I don't have any formal qualifications wit regards to theology but do not find any words or phrases within the Nicene Creed difficult to understand.

-
You might not, JNC - but a survey of people who were learning English as a second language did!
That was one of the reasons for making the Statement - note the absence of the word 'Creed' in the first place.
(Oh, and incidentally, it's also a major factor in abandoning the KJV. People coming to this country have enough difficulty coping with MODERN English without having to dredge through its' Jacobean ancestor!)
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Christians accept One God, Triune in nature.
SAOR ALBA GU BRATH!
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JMC
Junior Community Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 493


Location: Just passing through...

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim wrote:

You might not, JNC - but a survey of people who were learning English as a second language did!


What a bizarre reason for re-writing the Creed. I know a lot of English teachers in certain foreign countries use their job as a front for spreading the Gospel, but rewriting ancient texts because their translations are not amenable to people who aren't native speakers doesn't seem like the best "plan A" response. After all, English isn't the language the Creed was originally formulated in, so I'd have thought the best way to make it more accessible would be to translate it into the English learners' mother tongue. Given the age of the Creed, my guess would be it already exists in most languages already. It is, after all, said (or sung) in Orthodox churches throughout the world at the Divine Liturgy in the local language (so that's your Eastern European languages already pre-translated).


Jim wrote:
That was one of the reasons for making the Statement - note the absence of the word 'Creed' in the first place.


Is the re-jigged Creed called "the Statement" or the "Statement of Faith"? The latter has the same meaning as Creed, which comes from the Latin for "I believe", the first words of the Creed itself.


Jim wrote:
(Oh, and incidentally, it's also a major factor in abandoning the KJV. People coming to this country have enough difficulty coping with MODERN English without having to dredge through its' Jacobean ancestor!)


But you use more modern translations of the Bible, not re-writes or paraphrases, right? The same could have been done with the Nicene Creed -- so, why wasn't it? (well, actually it has been rendered into modern English, so really my question is why didn't the CoS use it and instead come up with a new one?)
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Derek
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 4885



PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
One thing that is blatantly obvious is that you have no reason. No reason why we are here, where did we come from and where are we going to. You seem to believe it to be Gods will yet ignore all the many scriptures that tell us exactly why we are here and what we are doing. You have blind faith and hope without any reasoning.

If this were true and important to the salvation and eternal life of mankind the God would have made such a fairy tale concept known to us in his word. He hasn't

The universe was created by the big bang. God may have pushed the button but the universe made itself.


Don't be a silly billy.  You are demeaning God by that statement.  How can even you make a cake from a whole lot of nothing?

Ralph2 wrote:
It is not possible to be made a son or daughter.


Tell that to all the adopted sons and daughters in the world.  Every bit a child of their adoptive parents as is a 'natural' child: full and equal rights and obligations.

Christians are all adopted sons and daughters in Christ Jesus.  Full heirs to the Kingdom.  Shame your LDS teaching robs you of that ability and truth.

Ralph2 wrote:
We either are or we are not his sons and daughters, in a literal sense. My spirit is the literal creation of my Father in Heaven. Only by proving ourselves herewith will we be granted place in the kingdom of God. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God. You get this mortal probation wrong and you forfeit your rights to live in the presence of God. How can you get it so wrong and still believe that you are right?


Right back atcha - but we know the reason why: it's manifestly clear.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We confess Jesus Christ, God the Son:
in love, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became one of us;
to fulfil the promise to Israel and to reconcile the world with God.


Absolute rubbish.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he?

Ralph2 wrote:
No, in the garden of Ghetsemani he took upon himself the sins of the world. On the cross he died for death was necessary before resurrection could take place.

The Holy Ghost brought the assembly into being, or the congregation, he did take a crash course in Church building.

Quote:
He empowers us to be disciples,


No, the power of the priesthood, after the order of the son of God, gives us that authority.


Another LDS false teaching.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We rejoice in the gift of eternal life:


You do not know what eternal life is. You have been duped into believing it is salvation. One of Satan's exemplary deceits.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he.  Arch deceivers employ arch deceivers.

Ralph2 wrote:
 Because of that you will have to be judged. You cannot blame anyone for your failure to recognise that which is true. Truth is a constant. It never changes. It is always available to find.

Quote:
Then all creation shall rejoice in communion with the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit, one God blessed forever. "


But why? What should we rejoice? What have we achieved? What is the goal?


Oh dear!  You've been robbed Delbert, well and truly robbed.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You seem to have excluded quite a few. Things like the rapsody.


The what?

Ralph2 wrote:
The notion that to confess that Jesus is Christ is sufficient to give us eternal life with God. Your misunderstanding of salvation, meaning that we will all be saved. That we will go step into immortality from mortality, not that we will have place in the presence of God as the body may be perfect but the mind will remain as is. You, Jim, in my opinion, do not have place there. Your whole persona would not fit there. You would be uncomfortable in the presence of those who know pure love and righteousness. By your post here you have difficulty in empathy, pride, arrogance and condescension.


Oh dear, oh dear.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You believe the unbelievable and shun that which is true.


Yep, you serpently do!    (pun intended).



_________________
Christians believe in the Godhead. God, the father, and his son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, who testifies of His Truth. Three  Separate and Distinct Individuals. Anything else is false doctrine, the teaching of men.
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Quizzimodo
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 692



PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ralph2 wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
One thing that is blatantly obvious is that you have no reason. No reason why we are here, where did we come from and where are we going to. You seem to believe it to be Gods will yet ignore all the many scriptures that tell us exactly why we are here and what we are doing. You have blind faith and hope without any reasoning.

If this were true and important to the salvation and eternal life of mankind the God would have made such a fairy tale concept known to us in his word. He hasn't

The universe was created by the big bang. God may have pushed the button but the universe made itself.


Don't be a silly billy.  You are demeaning God by that statement.  How can even you make a cake from a whole lot of nothing?

Ralph2 wrote:
It is not possible to be made a son or daughter.


Tell that to all the adopted sons and daughters in the world.  Every bit a child of their adoptive parents as is a 'natural' child: full and equal rights and obligations.

Christians are all adopted sons and daughters in Christ Jesus.  Full heirs to the Kingdom.  Shame your LDS teaching robs you of that ability and truth.

Ralph2 wrote:
We either are or we are not his sons and daughters, in a literal sense. My spirit is the literal creation of my Father in Heaven. Only by proving ourselves herewith will we be granted place in the kingdom of God. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God. You get this mortal probation wrong and you forfeit your rights to live in the presence of God. How can you get it so wrong and still believe that you are right?


Right back atcha - but we know the reason why: it's manifestly clear.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We confess Jesus Christ, God the Son:
in love, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became one of us;
to fulfil the promise to Israel and to reconcile the world with God.


Absolute rubbish.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he?

Ralph2 wrote:
No, in the garden of Ghetsemani he took upon himself the sins of the world. On the cross he died for death was necessary before resurrection could take place.

The Holy Ghost brought the assembly into being, or the congregation, he did take a crash course in Church building.

Quote:
He empowers us to be disciples,


No, the power of the priesthood, after the order of the son of God, gives us that authority.


Another LDS false teaching.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We rejoice in the gift of eternal life:


You do not know what eternal life is. You have been duped into believing it is salvation. One of Satan's exemplary deceits.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he.  Arch deceivers employ arch deceivers.

Ralph2 wrote:
 Because of that you will have to be judged. You cannot blame anyone for your failure to recognise that which is true. Truth is a constant. It never changes. It is always available to find.

Quote:
Then all creation shall rejoice in communion with the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit, one God blessed forever. "


But why? What should we rejoice? What have we achieved? What is the goal?


Oh dear!  You've been robbed Delbert, well and truly robbed.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You seem to have excluded quite a few. Things like the rapsody.


The what?

Ralph2 wrote:
The notion that to confess that Jesus is Christ is sufficient to give us eternal life with God. Your misunderstanding of salvation, meaning that we will all be saved. That we will go step into immortality from mortality, not that we will have place in the presence of God as the body may be perfect but the mind will remain as is. You, Jim, in my opinion, do not have place there. Your whole persona would not fit there. You would be uncomfortable in the presence of those who know pure love and righteousness. By your post here you have difficulty in empathy, pride, arrogance and condescension.


Oh dear, oh dear.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You believe the unbelievable and shun that which is true.


Yep, you serpently do!    (pun intended).




Still not addressing points I see, Ralph
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Derek
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 4885



PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quizzimodo wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
Ketty wrote:
Ralph2 wrote:
One thing that is blatantly obvious is that you have no reason. No reason why we are here, where did we come from and where are we going to. You seem to believe it to be Gods will yet ignore all the many scriptures that tell us exactly why we are here and what we are doing. You have blind faith and hope without any reasoning.

If this were true and important to the salvation and eternal life of mankind the God would have made such a fairy tale concept known to us in his word. He hasn't

The universe was created by the big bang. God may have pushed the button but the universe made itself.


Don't be a silly billy.  You are demeaning God by that statement.  How can even you make a cake from a whole lot of nothing?

Ralph2 wrote:
It is not possible to be made a son or daughter.


Tell that to all the adopted sons and daughters in the world.  Every bit a child of their adoptive parents as is a 'natural' child: full and equal rights and obligations.

Christians are all adopted sons and daughters in Christ Jesus.  Full heirs to the Kingdom.  Shame your LDS teaching robs you of that ability and truth.

Ralph2 wrote:
We either are or we are not his sons and daughters, in a literal sense. My spirit is the literal creation of my Father in Heaven. Only by proving ourselves herewith will we be granted place in the kingdom of God. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God. You get this mortal probation wrong and you forfeit your rights to live in the presence of God. How can you get it so wrong and still believe that you are right?


Right back atcha - but we know the reason why: it's manifestly clear.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We confess Jesus Christ, God the Son:
in love, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became one of us;
to fulfil the promise to Israel and to reconcile the world with God.


Absolute rubbish.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he?

Ralph2 wrote:
No, in the garden of Ghetsemani he took upon himself the sins of the world. On the cross he died for death was necessary before resurrection could take place.

The Holy Ghost brought the assembly into being, or the congregation, he did take a crash course in Church building.

Quote:
He empowers us to be disciples,


No, the power of the priesthood, after the order of the son of God, gives us that authority.


Another LDS false teaching.

Ralph2 wrote:
Quote:
We rejoice in the gift of eternal life:


You do not know what eternal life is. You have been duped into believing it is salvation. One of Satan's exemplary deceits.


Well satan would have you say that, wouldn't he.  Arch deceivers employ arch deceivers.

Ralph2 wrote:
 Because of that you will have to be judged. You cannot blame anyone for your failure to recognise that which is true. Truth is a constant. It never changes. It is always available to find.

Quote:
Then all creation shall rejoice in communion with the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit, one God blessed forever. "


But why? What should we rejoice? What have we achieved? What is the goal?


Oh dear!  You've been robbed Delbert, well and truly robbed.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You seem to have excluded quite a few. Things like the rapsody.


The what?

Ralph2 wrote:
The notion that to confess that Jesus is Christ is sufficient to give us eternal life with God. Your misunderstanding of salvation, meaning that we will all be saved. That we will go step into immortality from mortality, not that we will have place in the presence of God as the body may be perfect but the mind will remain as is. You, Jim, in my opinion, do not have place there. Your whole persona would not fit there. You would be uncomfortable in the presence of those who know pure love and righteousness. By your post here you have difficulty in empathy, pride, arrogance and condescension.


Oh dear, oh dear.  

Ralph2 wrote:
You believe the unbelievable and shun that which is true.


Yep, you serpently do!    (pun intended).




Still not addressing points I see, Ralph


What point is that then?


_________________
Christians believe in the Godhead. God, the father, and his son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, who testifies of His Truth. Three  Separate and Distinct Individuals. Anything else is false doctrine, the teaching of men.
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