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Secret Halal Meat
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Quizzimodo
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Secret Halal Meat  Reply with quote

There's been a lot of publicity in the last week or so about companies serving Halal meat without publicising it

What do we think?

It's difficult to get to the truth with what appears to be a lot of islamophobia thrown into the mix.

I'd like to know more before I form an opinion
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'm opposed to religious/ritual slaughter as such, per se and in toto, purely on the grounds that they create unnecessary suffering, suffering which has no need to exist. (I'm opposed to the slaughter of all and any animals for food in general, come to that, but we're discussing the religious/ritual angle of halal/kosher slaughter here, not the ethics of carnivorism). Western nations have laws in place which mandate stunning, which is supposed to render an animal insensible for long enough for it to be killed without suffering, both physical and mental.

I say 'supposed' because I for one am far from alone in being convinced that this system actually does what it's intended to do, for a variety of reasons: the objectification and commodification of sentient animals leading to unconcern for suffering, the pressures of work and the demands of time leading to sloppy practice, etc. The WWW abounds with websites and videos showing exactly how 'humane' 'humane slaughter' is in practice.

Nevertheless, however much in actuality this is the most token of nods to animal welfare, that's the intention of the law - that non-human animals, if they're to be killed for their flesh at all, aren't supposed to be made to suffer unduly. If non-religious, non-ritual slaughter - 'ordinary' slaughter if you like - causes suffering (which it does, which is why vegetarians and vegans try to take themselves out of that particular loop as far as possible), religious/ritual slaughter knowingly causes worse suffering: numerically less, perhaps, but physiologically more.

That being the case, nobody has the right to absent themselves from this general consensus that animal suffering is bad and should be limited to its lowest possible extent. Some say that religious/ritual slaughter is a matter of religious freedom. I happen to think that in such a case there's too much religious freedom, and that self-interested religious lobbies have no right to try to circumvent the law of the land by claiming that they have a divine mandate to do so. (The too much religious freedom angle also applies to ritual genital mutilation of infants, amongst other issues).

Until such a day as religious/ritual slaughter is outlawed as it has been in other European nations (a day to which I look forward), if animals slaughtered in this manner are to enter the general foodchain as foodstuffs, the meat should and must be clearly identified so that consumers can make their own choice as to whether they want to buy it or not.

As sure as free-range organic eggs is eggs, people who oppose ritual slaughter as practised by minority religious populations such as Jews and Muslims will be accused of bigotry, their real opposition supposedly being to them there dirty foreigners and their funny religions. Or maybe that they're anti-religion in general (which, coincidentally, is certainly true in my own case). Perhaps for some this may be true, for all I know. I don't know this, as a matter of fact: I do know entirely what my opposition is based upon, and people of different ethnicities - or indeed people at all - it ain't.

Interest: predominantly vegan for 13 years, vegetarian for a decade before that.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wot Shaker said.
I'd that, as long as the animal in question does not suffer unecessarily, they can spout whatever mumbo jumbo they wish over it - whether Christian, Moslem, Jew or Jedi.
It won't make a bit of difference to the animal or the eater.
As I asked elswehere:
Anyone for halal/Kosher pork?
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would ask why does it need to be a secret?  It surely hasn't been a secret for those who demand religious slaughter otherwise why bother?  With all the requirements for correct food labelling and the like, why can't such meat come with a statement: "Religiously slaughtered according to the laws of Judaism, or Islam", or whatever?
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cyberman
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
I would ask why does it need to be a secret?  It surely hasn't been a secret for those who demand religious slaughter otherwise why bother?  With all the requirements for correct food labelling and the like, why can't such meat come with a statement: "Religiously slaughtered according to the laws of Judaism, or Islam", or whatever?


Because consumers who have no knowledge of those religious laws will be non the wiser. For consumer awareness purposes, it would have to say "Not stunned prior to slaughter" or something.
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cymrudynnion
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are countries in this world that permit the slaughter of animals in methods not permitted in the U.K. As long as I am not required to eat such meat fair enough it is up to that country. Similarly foods especially meat products if imported from countries permitting such slaughter such meat should be labelled as meat being produced as a result of slaughter not permitted in the U.K.
This seems akin to other topics we have discussed where if the activity is illegal in this country but legal in the country of origin etc., etc.
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Quizzimodo
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cymrudynnion wrote:
There are countries in this world that permit the slaughter of animals in methods not permitted in the U.K. As long as I am not required to eat such meat fair enough it is up to that country. Similarly foods especially meat products if imported from countries permitting such slaughter such meat should be labelled as meat being produced as a result of slaughter not permitted in the U.K.
This seems akin to other topics we have discussed where if the activity is illegal in this country but legal in the country of origin etc., etc.


Are you trying to link this subject to your child porn defence?
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberman wrote:
Because consumers who have no knowledge of those religious laws will be non the wiser. For consumer awareness purposes, it would have to say "Not stunned prior to slaughter" or something.


I wonder how many meat-eating consumers ever give any real thought to how the animal ends up on their plate?  I doubt if even the 'not stunned prior to slaughter' would make a great deal of difference to most.   I speak as an omnivore, but one who is edging ever closer to that not being the case.
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IvyOwl
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:


I wonder how many meat-eating consumers ever give any real thought to how the animal ends up on their plate?  I doubt if even the 'not stunned prior to slaughter' would make a great deal of difference to most.   I speak as an omnivore, but one who is edging ever closer to that not being the case.


I'm sure you are right there! I eat very little meat but haven't given it up entirely. I read labels very carefully!
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
I wonder how many meat-eating consumers ever give any real thought to how the animal ends up on their plate?  I doubt if even the 'not stunned prior to slaughter' would make a great deal of difference to most.   I speak as an omnivore, but one who is edging ever closer to that not being the case.

Do the right thing  


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