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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: deleted  Reply with quote

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Ketty
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religion does seem to bring out the worst, I agree - whatever it may be about which, or what, people are being religious. Religion restricts and binds people and encourages them to desire to restrict and bind others in the same way.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
Religion does seem to bring out the worst, I agree - whatever it may be about which, or what, people are being religious. Religion restricts and binds people and encourages them to desire to restrict and bind others in the same way.


I agree.

Having been brought up with the 'you must be 'saved' or else' dogma, I know how very damaging and abusive it can be. Surely our aim in life should be to be good enough?
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What is it about religion? Reply with quote

Floo wrote:
Religion seems to bring out the worst in some people, Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the three, which particularly spring to mind. Of course there are good people belonging to those faiths, but sadly they are often eclipsed by the bad.

I am probably being extremely naive in my thinking, but surely if you espouse a faith the aim should be to make you a better person? Whatever religion to which you belong, or none at all, one's aim in life should be to help others a long the way, 'then my living has not been in vain'.

What do other's think?


It brings out the worst in people (a) because for some people it deals with the biggest things that humans ever have to contend with: the meaning, worth and import of their own existences and (especially) the thing a great many people hate and fear most, namely death and (b) because it deals in pseudo-answers, not real, actual answers which are rooted in fact, logic and evidence. In the absence of any factual grounding, any one person's/group's individual interpretation (and that's all it is) has exact parity with absolutely any other - all others, in fact. There's no external reference point to which anyone can point and say, "Well, look, I think you'll find that actually you're wrong here, and this is the evidence which demonstrates why ..." If you can't do that - as you so often can in science for example - the Big-Endians and their opinion that you should and must tap open your boiled egg at the big end and the Small-Endians and their opinion that no, it must be the other end have precisely equal parity - it's just opinion - and so their witless witterings can go on and on and on and on and on for ever and ever, world without end.

It's all just opinion, and we all know what opinions are like, I'm sure.

You singled out Christianity, Judaism and Islam as the worst offenders in this regard in much the same way as I've also done in the past. The problem here is monotheism - belief in just the one god fertilises the soil with the rich manure you need to allow division, exclusion and sectarianism to flourish because it provides the ideal environment. If there is only one god it follows that there is only one right, true, correct and proper way of going about things - whatever that god has said. Anything which steps outside of this is wrong in both senses of the word - factually incorrect and morally objectionable. If you are absolutely convinced that there is only one way, truth and life and that nobody gets to the Father but by Jesus, or that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet, it is a very, very short step from there to wanting to be able to make others see things your way if you can make them. It's not inevitable, but certainly the ground has been well prepared.

You don't have to be much of an historian of religion to compare the histories of, say, Christianity and Islam with ancient Greek paganism or Hinduism to spot the salient differences in this regard.
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Leonard James
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If humanity would concentrate on simply bringing kids up to obey the Golden Rule, instead of following the instructions of any of the innumerable gods that have been dreamed up, this world would be a far happier and peaceful place.
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Powwow
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes i recognize the atheism of Lenin, Mao and the crazy Kim's and it's link to their murderous ways.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has to be some sort of award for that degree of whataboutery.

Whether there's a comparable award for the most abject failure to engage with the subject of a thread, I don't know.
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What is it about religion? Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:

It's all just opinion, and we all know what opinions are like, I'm sure.


Ten a penny - even allowing for inflation and decimalisation.  

Shaker wrote:
[Floo] You singled out Christianity, Judaism and Islam as the worst offenders in this regard . . .


Religious adherents of anything can be the 'worse offenders'.  It's all subjective and relative.  If gambling is a person's religion, if soccer is a person's religion, if the wishy-washy unquantifiable 'Golden Rule' is a person's religion is no worse and no better than if a person insists that 'christianity' is their religion and yet, for example, they insist all others including those who do not know Christ should follow OT Levitical laws whilst themselves ignoring the two greatest Commandments.  Religious adherents of Islam do things like flying into buildings, decapitating innocents, and insisting their women must cover themselves from head to toe in order to make a 'religious statement' to societies who do not recognise their god.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: What is it about religion? Reply with quote

Ketty wrote:
Shaker wrote:

It's all just opinion, and we all know what opinions are like, I'm sure.


Ten a penny - even allowing for inflation and decimalisation.  

Not the phrase I was thinking of, but near enough!

Quote:
Religious adherents of anything can be the 'worse offenders'.  It's all subjective and relative.  


All? Gosh: that's quite an admission. Though not to me
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JamesJah
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is it about religion? It is the god you choose.

People today have in many cases stopped choosing a  god and plumbed for theirs being the one true god, which favours them but no else.

How many gods are there and hoe many have instructed their followers in how they should be worshiped?

What is the point of the worship and why do people think they have to indulge in it?

Is most worship just self gratification, or do some actually do what their god asks of them?

What is the big problem with self determination?

Which God knows best has been the issue through the ages so who is the winner?




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Do all roads lead to god???


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