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Is God and Energy the same thing
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Derek
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 4885



PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="Ketty:127635"]
Derek wrote:
Let me tell you why it is a lie Ketty Dear. I was a Mormon for 25 years. In that time, I never heard it mentions during any Church meeting and I never heard anyone talking about it either.


Derek wrote:
It is a sensitive issue that is not promoted or spoken about in any official church business,


You've confirmed then that it's not a lie that Joseph Smith one of the originators of Mormon anti-Christian teaching promoted the idea that men will be gods


If it were true then I would confirm it, however, like most of what you write on here, it is a half truth, intended to misrepresent Mormons as being enemies to God, which, of course, they are not. According to the LDS Church, it was always to be that way for them, a persecuted people they were told they would be, as, indeed, they are. Persecuted and discriminated against by people like you who have been indoctrinated with the lies and deceit of men and their false teachings, trying to thwart the plan of salvation. If what they are doing is so wrong then why do they get so much attention, by confrontationist's like yourself, and not just ignored as preachers of untenable claptrap, from the likes of busybodies like you who cannot help but to interfere in their business by slagging their beliefs off without first putting their affairs into order. Christians do not, should not, slag each other off, when they are busy loving one another, as you incessantly do, that is Satan's domain and pleasure. Surely there must be an element of truth in their beliefs otherwise Satan would not try so hard to destroy them? All your malice just verifies that they do have an element of truth, if it were a lie then it would have died decades ago.  

Yes, it is true that Joseph Smith believed that man could eventually become Gods, no an incomprehensible theory, however, it is a lie that he ever promoted it. It is a lie that it is part of the official LDS belief. It is true that the saints of the last days were said to be a persecuted people by those who could not recognise the truth, because of that, most of what is said about them is, in fact, a lie. Satan needs them out of the way so that he can achieve his goal without hindrance. Your words here helps him to do that.

In a sense, your critiques of different denominations is a testimony builder as it demonstrates that everything is going wrong at the right time. Prophecy is being fulfilled. Thank you. See you at the judgement bar.

Quote:
if they are good little boys and believe all that he promoted -


Again, the half-truth that makes you devious and confrontational to everyone's religion but yours. It is so obvious that man will never become Gods whilst they are in the flesh. God is immortal, so it is going to be something that would take place after this world has ended. Indeed, Joseph Smith said that it would take a considerable amount of time, of progression in the Celestial Kingdom, to be like him. Dad's always want their children to be like them, why wouldn't heavenly father feel the same? So it is true that he believed that man would become Gods, however, it is a lie to suggest that it would happen as a result of their works in the flesh. Problem here is that you are listening to bigots and getting lies instead of finding out for yourself, thus the ambiguity and deception in your teachings

Quote:
merely that it's 'sensitive'.
 

Yes, merely, because few give it any thought, indeed, your lot speak about it far more than members of the church do.

Quote:
Thought so.


Ketty, you are so unbelievably infantile. "Thought so," really? You arrogantly assume you are right without even considering my response, because that is exactly what you are saying to the reader of your post. You assume that you know it all so you naturally think you are right without having to listen to an alternative opinion. Not the best attitude to have if you are debating. Indeed, a debate is futile if you are a know-it-all like you claim to be.

Quote:
Not surprised though that it's another one of the LDS "secrets" about their Koloby god - just like their secret handshakes and secret names, etc.  Nothing new there, then.


"Koloby God" What is that?

Mormons have secrets, do they? I was a Mormon for 25 years and I never heard of them keeping secrets, let alone,"Yet another one". Probably because they were secret, so how come you know about them if they are secret, or are you lying about it and they are not really secret at all. If they were then surely you wouldn't know about them, they are secret, as you say.

Again the half truth that you like to portray. Yes, it is true that the Mormons have signs and tokens that are used in their sacred temple ordinances, however, the lie is that they are secret, how could they be, everybody knows about them. They are Sacred to them, yes, so they don't openly discuss it, but secret, no! If it were secret then we wouldn't be talking about it because it is a secret. Come on Ketty Dear, this is basic logic. Maybe you should check  out your source and their motives because it looks like you are being taken for gullible again.

Now, I know how normal it is for you to persistently make the same erroneous claims and assertion even though you have been told the truth. I know that you do it specifically to wind posters up because you get some sort of a kick out of it, just one of your peculiar idiosyncrasy that makes it obvious that you are not a Christian. You will, no doubt, us the same odd and peculiar behaviour here as well, however, I have to tell you that I am not biting. You either take my word for it or you use your usual tactic of throwing as much crap as you can hoping that some will stick, whilst enjoying winding me up in the process, either way, this is the truth and your version is clearly not.
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Christians believe in the Godhead. God, the father, and his son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, who testifies of His Truth. Three  Separate and Distinct Individuals. Anything else is false doctrine, the teaching of men.
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cymrudynnion
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God and Energy the same thing Reply with quote

Derek wrote:
I was asked to open a thread with one of my world views. This is a thread I started on a different forum that attracted much interest and for which I still ponder over. Is God and energy the same thing and if they are then we to must be the product of that energy or intelligence, don't we?

I have been re-reading a book that I had read some time ago, but like most books I have read more the 10 years ago, I forgot most of its content. I have, of late, been interested in the concept of science and religion stemming from the same spring of knowledge and intelligence. Seems that my thoughts have already been investigated in this small, yet interesting little book. Is the descriptions of energy and matter correct. Are we an energy force acting within a larger energy force. Is God and energy synonymous with each other. I am no scientist, however, the following exert seems to be logical to me and gives the reader the impression that a superior being is responsible for all of this.

Exert from The Secret by Rhonda Byrne

Most people define themselves by this finite body, but you're not a finite body. Even under a microscope you're an energy field. What we know about energy is this: You go to a quantum physicist and you say, "What creates the world?" And he or she will say, "Energy." Well, describe energy.

"OK, it can never be created or destroyed, it always was, always has been, everything that ever existed always exists, it's moving into form, through form and out of form." You go to a theologian and ask the question, "What created the Universe?" And he or she will say, "God." OK, describe God.

"Always was and always has been, never can be created or destroyed, all that ever was, always will be, always moving into form, through form and out of form." You see, it's the same description, just different terminology.

So if you think you're this "meat suit" running around, think again. You're a spiritual being! You're an energy field, operating in a larger energy field.

How does all of this make you a spiritual being? For me, the answer to that question is one of the most magnificent parts of the teachings of The Secret. You are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Energy just changes form. And that means You!

The true essence of You, the pure energy of You, has always been and always will be. You can never not be.

On a deep level, you know that. Can you imagine not being? Despite everything you have seen and experienced in your life, can you imagine not being? You cannot imagine it, because it is impossible. You are eternal energy.

DR. JOHN HAGELIN

Quantum mechanics confirms it. Quantum cosmology confirms it. That the Universe essentially emerges from thought and all of this matter around us is just precipitated thought. Ultimately toe are the source of the Universe, and when we understand that power directly by experience, we can start to exercise our authority and begin to achieve more and more. Create anything. Know anything from within the field of our own consciousness, which ultimately is Universal consciousness that runs the Universe.
The Secret by Rhonda Byrne.

I do not want to get heavily bogged down in religion on this one. I am more interested in whether God, or what ever you want to call the ideology, is a form of intellectual energy, much the same as the properties involved in Quantum Physics.

I am not saying anything specifically. I am investigating the idea under the premises of both our energy and Gods being of the same source, in its elementary form, but the energy it possesses being unique to each individual, like taking water from a reservoir to water crops or drink, both use elementary identical element, they just have different applications that produces different effects. The alternative being a sort of collective consciousness, like "The Borg" was in Star Trek, where every sub-atomic particle is like DNA, having identical information that tells us all identical information, which would suggest that we are all an integral part of God and just one source of light and knowledge, or, in other words, a shared identical intelligence, which could suggest that energy contains intelligence, in either case. What do you think.
Derek sorry to answer your O/P so late. In my opinion no God is not energy. I can see your anology as Energy cannot be destroyed but changes betwqeen one form and another. However does God change, and change to what? I believe and accept God The Father, God The Son and God the Holy Ghost (or Spirit, if you prefer) but that is not a change in my view. Energy changes within the Laws of Physics, but whose Laws of Physics, Man's Law or what he attempts to comprehend as Fact an dthen discovered his Fact is incorrect. God on the other hand commands ALL, man cannot comprehend ALL God commands, man tries to and Theories become man made fact as man cannot dispute his fact, but, man cannot understand all of God's Laws. Man needs God to lead and teach him. Some open their eyes and hearts vand accept God, His teachings and Guidance, sadly some don't and remain in ignorance.
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Derek
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is God and Energy the same thing Reply with quote

[quote="cymrudynnion:127647"]
Derek wrote:
I was asked to open a thread with one of my world views. This is a thread I started on a different forum that attracted much interest and for which I still ponder over. Is God and energy the same thing and if they are then we to must be the product of that energy or intelligence, don't we?

I have been re-reading a book that I had read some time ago, but like most books I have read more the 10 years ago, I forgot most of its content. I have, of late, been interested in the concept of science and religion stemming from the same spring of knowledge and intelligence. Seems that my thoughts have already been investigated in this small, yet interesting little book. Is the descriptions of energy and matter correct. Are we an energy force acting within a larger energy force. Is God and energy synonymous with each other. I am no scientist, however, the following exert seems to be logical to me and gives the reader the impression that a superior being is responsible for all of this.

Exert from The Secret by Rhonda Byrne

Most people define themselves by this finite body, but you're not a finite body. Even under a microscope you're an energy field. What we know about energy is this: You go to a quantum physicist and you say, "What creates the world?" And he or she will say, "Energy." Well, describe energy.

"OK, it can never be created or destroyed, it always was, always has been, everything that ever existed always exists, it's moving into form, through form and out of form." You go to a theologian and ask the question, "What created the Universe?" And he or she will say, "God." OK, describe God.

"Always was and always has been, never can be created or destroyed, all that ever was, always will be, always moving into form, through form and out of form." You see, it's the same description, just different terminology.

So if you think you're this "meat suit" running around, think again. You're a spiritual being! You're an energy field, operating in a larger energy field.

How does all of this make you a spiritual being? For me, the answer to that question is one of the most magnificent parts of the teachings of The Secret. You are energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Energy just changes form. And that means You!

The true essence of You, the pure energy of You, has always been and always will be. You can never not be.

On a deep level, you know that. Can you imagine not being? Despite everything you have seen and experienced in your life, can you imagine not being? You cannot imagine it, because it is impossible. You are eternal energy.

DR. JOHN HAGELIN

Quantum mechanics confirms it. Quantum cosmology confirms it. That the Universe essentially emerges from thought and all of this matter around us is just precipitated thought. Ultimately toe are the source of the Universe, and when we understand that power directly by experience, we can start to exercise our authority and begin to achieve more and more. Create anything. Know anything from within the field of our own consciousness, which ultimately is Universal consciousness that runs the Universe.
The Secret by Rhonda Byrne.

I do not want to get heavily bogged down in religion on this one. I am more interested in whether God or whatever you want to call the ideology, is a form of intellectual energy, much the same as the properties involved in Quantum Physics.

I am not saying anything specifically. I am investigating the idea under the premises of both our energy and Gods being of the same source, in its elementary form, but the energy it possesses being unique to each individual, like taking water from a reservoir to water crops or drink, both use elementary identical element, they just have different applications that produce different effects. The alternative being a sort of collective consciousness, like "The Borg" was in Star Trek, where every sub-atomic particle is like DNA, having identical information that tells us all identical information, which would suggest that we are all an integral part of God and just one source of light and knowledge, or, in other words, a shared identical intelligence, which could suggest that energy contains intelligence, in either case. What do you think?


Quote:
Derek sorry to answer your O/P so late.


Hey, better late than never.

Quote:
In my opinion, no God is not energy.


That is fair enough, if we agreed on everything then we would not be here.

Quote:
I can see your analogy as Energy cannot be destroyed but changes between one form and another.


What you have said here is true, however, you have missed one key point that makes a vast difference to the overall concept. Not only can energy not be destroyed, but it cannot be created either. Like God, it has always existed. It is these parallels that give rise to inquisitive thinking people a vista to appreciate. But how interesting that you say that it changes between one form and another, like water changing into wine, perhaps.

Quote:
However does God change, and change to what?


No, God does not change in his supreme intentions and pure love. He is our literal father in heaven and as such is set in perfect principles and morals. The scriptures tell us that he is the same today, tomorrow and forever, but that is who he is not what he is. Could he change his physical appearance? Well yes, we know that he has done just that, just like pure energy, he can adopt any form that he chooses, a bit like a shapeshifter, however, his character is set in stone.

Quote:
I believe and accept God The Father, God The Son and God the Holy Ghost (or Spirit, if you prefer) but that is not a change in my view.


This one is a constant source of contention that I would prefer not to get into right now

Quote:
Energy changes within the Laws of Physics,


Not quite Cymru, my friend. Energy remains what it is regardless of the effects of natural or supernatural laws. It accumulates to form and create differing objects within our world, but the sub-atomic particles that make up the existence of all things are a constant, never changing and acting intelligently. Energy is an integral part of the laws of physics. It attracts energy and bonds to it, yet another miracle that we do not fully understand, if we did we would solve the production of electricity through the energy release produced by splitting that bond, called fission.

That is how atoms are formed, they contain a positively charged core of mass containing protons and neutrons (analogous with the body) that is held together by being encircled by a cloud of intelligent negatively charged electrons (analogous with the spirit). The electron is full of sub-atomic particle, Fermions and Bosons, as demonstrated by the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, all of which act with a degree of intelligence, all knowing their place and what to do in it. That then evolves into molecules as atoms accumulate and join together by covalent or ionic bonding, where an electron, without rhyme or reason, begins to orbits two nuclei instead of the one, causing them to bond together, in a similar fashion as we are told that spirit and body are bound together, inseparably connected, until we die and the spirit is once again released. The electron and nucleus locked together by an electrostatic force of attraction between opposite charges, between electrons and nuclei, and that then causes it to evolve into matter, the building blocks that creates life as we know it, the soul of mankind. Bodies of both intelligent energy and matter have formed,  the nuclei and electron, or body and spirit, as I believe we are. That is very likely a simplification of how we are here today and how Jesus spoke to those intelligences when he turned water into wine.

Quote:
but whose Laws of Physics, Man's Law or what he attempts to comprehend as Fact and then discovered his Fact is incorrect.


No, it was never man's laws of physics Cymru. It has always been Gods laws of physics, it was He who created the universe and all that is in it. He is the master scientist. Mankind discovers God's law, which He has drip-feds to them over the centuries, after which they denounce him and exclude him completely from that which he has created by trying to rid him from our world. Not very appreciative of them, is it?

Quote:
God, on the other hand, commands ALL, man cannot comprehend ALL God commands,


Absolutely, I will not argue with you there, however, God has told us that, "by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." through the gift of the Holy Ghost. therefore, the potential is there to progress in our knowledge and wisdom. To the same level as God? Certainly not in this world whilst hampered with mortality we can't, but in heaven? Maybe. In Colossians, we are told that it is, the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people. This is the final dispensation to whom this knowledge is being imparted.

Quote:
man tries to and Theories become man made fact as man cannot dispute his fact, but, man cannot understand all of God's Laws. Man needs God to lead and teach him. Some open their eyes and hearts and accept God, His teachings and Guidance, sadly some don't and remain in ignorance.


I cannot argue with that but must add that it is those that are in ignorance who believe that they have knowledge. those are they that are a blight to our society for they turn the hearts of men against God, as demonstrated by the thread so arrogantly started by Jim, "Explain". The scriptures warn us of these people who condone a little sin here and a little there, what harm will it cause, yes, god will punish us a little, but He will forgive us.

Isaiah 5:20 - 24

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight! Woe to those who are heroes in drinking wine And valiant men in mixing strong drink, Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right! Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel

I just love the Scriptures, don't you? They never pull punches and always call a spade a spade. You can find answers to any of life's dilemmas right there in it's pages.

Who justify the wicked for a bribe, Like Cyberman defending your poor behaviour knowing you were wrong but doing it out of false loyalty.

And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right! Like me being persecuted and victimised on this forum. Suspended and moderated for telling the truth. Vilified for my opinions and beliefs. But no complaints as Jesus didn't say that it would be easy but he did say that it will be worth it.
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Ketty
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Location: Walking the narrow path, singing merrily and living Victoriously

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek wrote:
Yes, it is true that Joseph Smith believed that man could eventually become Gods,


Derek, thank you again for confirming again that Joseph Smith and those who promote him as a 'prophet', have the 'secret' belief that is 'secretly' taught, that man will eventually become Koloby-type gods.  

It goes along with their 'secret' words and 'secret' handshakes and 'secret' names: there's a lot of secrets in the outfit.  Maybe they need to be kept secret until people are truly sucked into the inner sanctum and brainwashed sufficiently that they are not able to question the lies, and are blinded to them.  Thank the LORD* for those who have seen the light and escaped to reveal what goes on.  I have you to thank Derek, for illuminating the goings on within the LDS's hierarchy and temples.  Without you, I'd have been blissfully unaware of their false teaching and preaching.

There is nothing at all in the Bible to suggest that men will become gods and rule their own little planets with the families they had on earth in this age.  There is plenty in the Bible to refute that false teaching.  Proof positive, again, that the Mormon LDS outfit is based on the lies of its founders, and erroneously claim the label 'christian' in order to deceive.  

As you were ...


*  I AM:  The Triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
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<><Although Christians and Mormons use the same words such as grace, faith, God and sin, they mean very different things by them. Beware the poison!><>
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Derek
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ketty:127682"]
Derek wrote:
Yes, it is true that Joseph Smith believed that man could eventually become Gods,


Quote:
Derek, thank you again for confirming


Now that sounds like you are  trying to say that I have done it before, you and I know that is not true, therefore, you are, once again, telling porky pies that you will have to repent for.

Quote:
Derek, thank you again for confirming again that Joseph Smith and those who promote him as a 'prophet', have the 'secret' belief that is 'secretly' taught, that man will eventually become Koloby-type gods.


If it were secret, Ketty Dear, then how is it that everybody knows about it, only the definition of "secret" is "not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others." The opposite is true about this, heck, even you know about it. Secret! Nah  

Quote:
It goes along with their 'secret' words and 'secret' handshakes and 'secret' names: there's a lot of secrets in the outfit.


Again you repeat the same old same old. If it were secret then how come you know about it. Not that secret, is it? It is sacred to Mormons, do you understand what sacred means.

Quote:
Maybe they need to be kept secret until people are truly sucked into the inner sanctum and brainwashed sufficiently that they are not able to question the lies, and are blinded to them
.

You are projecting, Ketty Dear. That is exactly how I see you, and your clan, to be. Brainwashed, or indoctrinated, into believing a load of old hogwash, that must have appealed to you for you to capitulate to them. The easy option, the best suited to excuse your poor behaviour, so to speak.

Quote:
Thank the LORD* for those who have seen the light and escaped to reveal what goes on.
 

Ketty Dear, one has only to read a handful of your post here to know how bitter your fruit are to the taste. You are deluding yourself if you believe that crock. Your post is a testimony to the fact that you are a gullible messenger of the Born Again Christians.  

Quote:
I have you to thank Derek, for illuminating the goings on within the LDS's hierarchy and temples. Without you, I'd have been blissfully unaware of their false teaching and preaching.


That is your choice. If that is how you have interpreted my words then you are not as clever as you think you are.

Quote:
There is nothing at all in the Bible to suggest that men will become gods and rule their own little planets with the families they had on earth in this age.


There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was God incarnate either, however, your bunch of apostates believe in it. You condemn the Mormons for their unusual beliefs yet yours are far more peculiar than theirs is. Ironic and hypocritical, or what?

Here is a prime example of you getting it monumentally wrong. Each individual is responsible for their own salvation, do you believe that? If you do then how come you have just said that they will rule over planets with the families they had on earth. What happens if they are the only one out of  their family saved, their families having all failed. Are you saying that their families will be exalted with them just because they are family? If you are then your mentors have not thought that one through enough, have they? You don't have a clue Ketty Dear, you are just a brainwashed messenger of somebody else's words.

Quote:
There is plenty in the Bible to refute that false teaching.  Proof positive, again, that the Mormon LDS outfit is based on the lies of its founders, and erroneously claim the label 'Christian' in order to deceive.


If there is plenty in the bible that refute that, then why haven't you cited any of it, or is it just the empty words thing again. Have you actually read the bible?

I am not going to play "tit for tat" with you, but you really should wash your hands before pointing your figures. Billy Graham's hypocrisies made the hands of the Born Again Christian's filthy dirty, for example, as does Joyce Myer's false teachings. I do not defend Joseph Smith if he lied as a man with imperfections and failing, which he said that he had plenty of, however, his words, spoken as a Prophet of God, are quite interesting and without guile. You would not see that though because of your bigotry and narrow-mindedness. You believe in obscure things, like the trinity, because that is what your pastor told you. That is termed as gullibility Ketty Dear. You have no place to critique the beliefs of other religions, but especially so when your own is so corrupt and imperfect. Indeed, you are told not to judge others, but there is probably an exception for you Ketty Dear. You do what you want and then justify it.
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Ketty
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek wrote:
Now that sounds like you are  trying to say that I have done it before,


You have done it twice on this thread alone, even though you started out by saying it was a lie that Joseph Smith and his cohorts preach and teach that men can become Koloby-type gods ruling their own planets.  Like I said 'thank you' for confirming that the Mormon LDS are founded on the lies of one of its founders, and thank you for assisting in illuminating the false preaching and teaching of that particular expression of 'church' which erroneously and falsely claims the label 'christian'.

Derek wrote:
Yes, it is true that Joseph Smith believed that man could eventually become Gods,


Derek wrote:
you and I know that is not true, therefore, you are, once again, telling porky pies that you will have to repent for.

If it were secret, Ketty Dear, then how is it that everybody knows about it, only the definition of "secret" is "not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others." The opposite is true about this, heck, even you know about it. Secret! Nah  

Again you repeat the same old same old. If it were secret then how come you know about it. Not that secret, is it? It is sacred to Mormons, do you understand what sacred means.

You are projecting, Ketty Dear. That is exactly how I see you, and your clan, to be. Brainwashed, or indoctrinated, into believing a load of old hogwash, that must have appealed to you for you to capitulate to them. The easy option, the best suited to excuse your poor behaviour, so to speak.

Ketty Dear, one has only to read a handful of your post here to know how bitter your fruit are to the taste. You are deluding yourself if you believe that crock. Your post is a testimony to the fact that you are a gullible messenger of the Born Again Christians.  

That is your choice. If that is how you have interpreted my words then you are not as clever as you think you are.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was God incarnate either, however, your bunch of apostates believe in it. You condemn the Mormons for their unusual beliefs yet yours are far more peculiar than theirs is. Ironic and hypocritical, or what?

Here is a prime example of you getting it monumentally wrong. Each individual is responsible for their own salvation, do you believe that? If you do then how come you have just said that they will rule over planets with the families they had on earth. What happens if they are the only one out of  their family saved, their families having all failed. Are you saying that their families will be exalted with them just because they are family? If you are then your mentors have not thought that one through enough, have they? You don't have a clue Ketty Dear, you are just a brainwashed messenger of somebody else's words.

If there is plenty in the bible that refute that, then


Derek wrote:
why haven't you cited any of it,


No need Derek, there are plenty of threads on here, proving that LDS is based on the lies of its founder, and not based on Biblical truth.  I'm sure you're capable of searching out previous threads if you need to have anything 'cited'. I'm not going to repeat all that's already gone before.  The Bible stands as its own proof.

Derek wrote:
or is it just the empty words thing again. Have you actually read the bible?

I am not going to play "tit for tat" with you, but you really should wash your hands before pointing your figures. Billy Graham's hypocrisies made the hands of the Born Again Christian's filthy dirty, for example, as does Joyce Myer's false teachings. I do not defend Joseph Smith if he lied as a man with imperfections and failing, which he said that he had plenty of, however, his words, spoken as a Prophet of God, are quite interesting and without guile. You would not see that though because of your bigotry and narrow-mindedness. You believe in obscure things, like the trinity, because that is what your pastor told you. That is termed as gullibility Ketty Dear. You have no place to critique the beliefs of other religions, but especially so when your own is so corrupt and imperfect. Indeed, you are told not to judge others, but there is probably an exception for you Ketty Dear. You do what you want and then justify it.


Now, if you can, try and debate the subjects rather than attacking the posters and return to the topic of the OP where you are making an effort in attempting to prove your idea that 'god' and 'energy' are the same thing.   The Christian God*, of course, created all and so is greater than any one part of His Creation, energy included.  Mormons and others who consider themselves worthy of becoming gods, are free to believe otherwise.

I AM: the Triune Godhead - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
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<><Although Christians and Mormons use the same words such as grace, faith, God and sin, they mean very different things by them. Beware the poison!><>
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Derek
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="Ketty:127687"][quote="Derek:127686"]Now that sounds like you are  trying to say that I have done it before,


Quote:
You have done it twice on this thread alone, even though you started out by saying it was a lie that Joseph Smith and his cohorts preach and teach that men can become Koloby-type gods ruling their own planets.  Like I said 'thank you' for confirming that the Mormon LDS are founded on the lies of one of its founders, and thank you for assisting in illuminating the false preaching and teaching of that particular expression of 'church' which erroneously and falsely claims the label 'christian'.

Derek wrote:
Yes, it is true that Joseph Smith believed that man could eventually become Gods,


Derek wrote:
you and I know that is not true, therefore, you are, once again, telling porky pies that you will have to repent for.


May I invite you to show me exactly where I have done it, just to clarify.

My confirmation of the dealings of the Mormons is as irrelevant as yours. Neither of us are Mormons so it counts for nothing.

It is a lie that Joseph Smith preached and taught that men could become God as an official teaching of the church as part of their beliefs. Even today it is not part of the official teachings of the church. So I stand by what I said as it is true.

According to the teachings of the Church, the restoration of the church was done at the hands of both God and Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith just obeyed them. ~That does not make him a founder of anything.

Who are you to judge who is or is not a Christian when you act so very badly on this forum and sin so easily. Again you point figures with dirty hands.

Quote:
If it were secret, Ketty Dear, then how is it that everybody knows about it, only the definition of "secret" is "not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others." The opposite is true about this, heck, even you know about it. Secret! Nah  

Again you repeat the same old same old. If it were secret then how come you know about it. Not that secret, is it? It is sacred to Mormons, do you understand what sacred means.

You are projecting, Ketty Dear. That is exactly how I see you, and your clan, to be. Brainwashed, or indoctrinated, into believing a load of old hogwash, that must have appealed to you for you to capitulate to them. The easy option, the best suited to excuse your poor behaviour, so to speak.

Ketty Dear, one has only to read a handful of your post here to know how bitter your fruit are to the taste. You are deluding yourself if you believe that crock. Your post is a testimony to the fact that you are a gullible messenger of the Born Again Christians.  

That is your choice. If that is how you have interpreted my words then you are not as clever as you think you are.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was God incarnate either, however, your bunch of apostates believe in it. You condemn the Mormons for their unusual beliefs yet yours are far more peculiar than theirs is. Ironic and hypocritical, or what?

Here is a prime example of you getting it monumentally wrong. Each individual is responsible for their own salvation, do you believe that? If you do then how come you have just said that they will rule over planets with the families they had on earth. What happens if they are the only one out of  their family saved, their families having all failed. Are you saying that their families will be exalted with them just because they are family? If you are then your mentors have not thought that one through enough, have they? You don't have a clue Ketty Dear, you are just a brainwashed messenger of somebody else's words.

If there is plenty in the bible that refute that, then


Quote:
Derek wrote:
why haven't you cited any of it,


No need Derek, there are plenty of threads on here, proving that LDS is based on the lies of its founder, and not based on Biblical truth.  I'm sure you're capable of searching out previous threads if you need to have anything 'cited'. I'm not going to repeat all that's already gone before.  The Bible stands as its own proof.


Are you suggesting that there exists another source of the word of God, this forum? Should we take the word written here as the word of God and thus proof of his existence. Are you saying that we should take the word of a handful of posters to prove a whole religious organisation to be false?

You do not quote from scripture because there is nothing there for you to quote.

Look at this. Look at what you are claiming. That this forum proves that Mormonism is not true. That Holy Writ proves that Mormonism is not true when Mormonism testifies of the truthfulness of the Bible. A circular argument if ever I saw one. Surely this is sufficient to expose you for exactly who you are?

Do you not know that debating never proves anything, how can it when it is merely the clash of opinions leaving it up to the audience to determine what is right and what is wrong and that is so subjective that it is impossible to determine. Maybe you should reconsider your perceptions of what a debate is and then you wouldn't be so aggressive. I have never considered myself to be a winner of a debate, especially when I have learned something from it. A debate should always be a win, win experience. To try and win it creates all sorts of confrontations.

"there are plenty of threads on here, proving that LDS is based on the lies of its founder"

Quote:
Derek wrote:
or is it just the empty words thing again. Have you actually read the bible?

Quote:
I am not going to play "tit for tat" with you, but you really should wash your hands before pointing your figures. Billy Graham's hypocrisies made the hands of the Born Again Christian's filthy dirty, for example, as does Joyce Myer's false teachings. I do not defend Joseph Smith if he lied as a man with imperfections and failing, which he said that he had plenty of, however, his words, spoken as a Prophet of God, are quite interesting and without guile. You would not see that though because of your bigotry and narrow-mindedness. You believe in obscure things, like the trinity, because that is what your pastor told you. That is termed as gullibility Ketty Dear. You have no place to critique the beliefs of other religions, but especially so when your own is so corrupt and imperfect. Indeed, you are told not to judge others, but there is probably an exception for you Ketty Dear. You do what you want and then justify it.


Now, if you can, try and debate the subjects rather than attacking the posters and return to the topic of the OP where you are making an effort in attempting to prove your idea that 'god' and 'energy' are the same thing.   The Christian God*, of course, created all and so is greater than any one part of His Creation, energy included.  Mormons and others who consider themselves worthy of becoming gods, are free to believe otherwise.


As you know, I never attack, I retaliate.

I think you should steer well clear of a debate that you do not understand. There are just two things in this world that we know are eternal in nature. Just two that we know has the potential of transcending the event of the Big Bang. Just two that can neither be created or destroyed. God and Energy. Energy has been scientifically proven that it cannot be created or destroyed and Christians believe the same of God. That is why many astute thinkers question whether they are the same thing.

According to you God is not who we believe him to be but he is a magician able to perform that which cannot be performed, creating something that has always existed. Before you say "yes, he can", do you think that God is capable of sinning. It is impossible for God to sin for as soon as he did, He would cease to be God. So, God cannot sin, he is limited to that which can be done. He is not capable of the impossible, and has never said that He is.

If energy is God then by saying that He created it you are saying He created himself. God could not create himself, neither could he create anything that has always existed, if anything else existed. To create something is to bring into existence something that did not exist prior to that creation. It had a beginning and will have an end. Energy has always existed and will always exist, just like Heavenly father.

How are you able to believe in a fairy tale, unrealistic God. Is that what you want Him to be, or have you just been conditioned to think that way, or is your knowledge of our universe that limited that you cannot see God's miracles in action in the universe and know that it is Him, without a shadow of a doubt, who created it all and if only one entity exists who could have create it then God and intelligent energy must be synonymous.

Quote:
Mormons and others who consider themselves worthy of becoming gods, are free to believe otherwise.


If you really believed this then you wouldn't be so quick to critique them.
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Christians believe in the Godhead. God, the father, and his son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, who testifies of His Truth. Three  Separate and Distinct Individuals. Anything else is false doctrine, the teaching of men.
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bnabernard
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Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem with energy is that it can be observed, however what energy exists in can't.

Nothing,

bernard (hug)
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bnabernard
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Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 2726



PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once man has built his fountain of knowledge his temple of light that shows him the way in his darkness, will he be able to live with it?

bernard (hug)

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