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How lucky we are!
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Leonard James
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 3963


Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:49 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

bnabernard wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with that, in fact I'm heading to promote it on another thread.
However where did this kaliedrescope of life come from?

Presently they are delving into 'nothing' because thats where it all springs from and returns to, in fact nothing is everywhere.
Is nothing something that is dead, at the end of the day life comes from life and in science or religion the life that suports life cannot be explained, what they do recognise is that law exist's relating to the life that springs from nothiong.

However if nothing is without life, dead, .............

bernard  

Hi Bernie,

Life, as we understand it, is the interactions which now takes place between various non-living elements that were formed at the start of the universe. It is a very limited phenomenon (time-wise) because the inter-actions slowly deteriorate, leading to death.

It is believed that these interactions came about simply by chance, given the enormous amount of time which passed before it occurred and the varied physical and electrochemical activity present in the early universe.

In other words, the difference between life and none-life is nothing more than a special arrangement of non-living (dead, if you want to call them that) atoms/molecules.
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cymrudynnion
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Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 1208



PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How lucky we are! Reply with quote

IvyOwl wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
I watch with amusement the incessant arguments the Christians have about their faith and the meaning of the Bible, and realise how lucky we atheists are in not having any of their problems.

No doubt we can disagree about other matters, but there's not much to disagree about in our disbelief in gods.


The idea that you can get some deep meaningful insight in the precise interpretation of words written long ago of events long after they'd happened totally bemuses me.

IO
You obviousdly donm't look at and appreciate History then Ivy
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Leonard James
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How lucky we are! Reply with quote

cymrudynnion wrote:
IvyOwl wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
I watch with amusement the incessant arguments the Christians have about their faith and the meaning of the Bible, and realise how lucky we atheists are in not having any of their problems.

No doubt we can disagree about other matters, but there's not much to disagree about in our disbelief in gods.


The idea that you can get some deep meaningful insight in the precise interpretation of words written long ago of events long after they'd happened totally bemuses me.

IO
You obviousdly donm't look at and appreciate History then Ivy

Never forget that History is the personal view of events of the writer who records it.
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IvyOwl
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 1301


Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: How lucky we are! Reply with quote

cymrudynnion wrote:
IvyOwl wrote:
Leonard James wrote:
I watch with amusement the incessant arguments the Christians have about their faith and the meaning of the Bible, and realise how lucky we atheists are in not having any of their problems.

No doubt we can disagree about other matters, but there's not much to disagree about in our disbelief in gods.


The idea that you can get some deep meaningful insight in the precise interpretation of words written long ago of events long after they'd happened totally bemuses me.

IO
You obviousdly donm't look at and appreciate History then Ivy



As the (albeit now ex) wife of an historian (published) I can assure you I am more than conversant with and appreciative of said subject and the questions and problems involved in how to look at and interpret it.

To address my original quote; it is true that perhaps I didn't make it as clear as I should have done. Myths and legends are of course important vehicles for conveying ideas and morals. Taking them for factual occurrences and trying to fit ones whole world view into them is misguided. IMHO

They should be read in the context of when they were first conceived which doesn't necessarilly invalidate their potential usefulness as behaviour guidance of course but it's an on going story.

My comments were a statement of my bemusement at the notion of sticking to the OT interpretation of God as still being valid today in the light of all the stuff we've learnt since.

How those ancients interpreted this world and how they saw god is interesting and tells us about them .... but to take their views as having anything to tell us about a potential god I find very perplexing.

My atheism is in regard to all gods hitherto dreamed up by men and women and in particular the Biblical god as that's the one I've got to hear the most about. I do not dismiss the whole 'god concept' but I don't go looking for it in ancient texts. I look up at the night sky. I take an interest in the ideas put forward by the physicists and think 'how amazing I wonder if there is a big mind behind all this?'  

I can have no idea of the nature of this 'big mind' (not a good word to describe what I mean but it will suffice for now) and that being the case I don't let it worry me unduly.  

However if I was in a position of authority over my fellow human beings (or wished to be) it's just possible I'd start making up stories to support my stance. Which brings us back to ancient dessert dwellers and what I was attempting to convey in my remarks about the precise interpretation of their thinking in so far as we know what it was after years of camp fire stories followed by manuscripts with the inbuilt chance of mis-recording.

IvyOwl.
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SceptiKarl
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Joined: 19 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very eloquently put Ivy!


And talking of history, whatever else he did, Stalin made the astute observation that "only the victors write the history". As soon as Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, it set about persecuting and destroying all those other pesky religions! The religion of the slaves had become the tool of oppression of the masters!


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Philosphers have interpreted the world in many different ways. The point is to change it.
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